Does paganism / Heathenism have anything like Stigmata?

[MonSno_LeeDra]

I asked this question on another board a few years ago but though I would try here to see what answers I get.

In Christanity, a truly devote and religious / spiritual person may experience the condition known as "Stigmata". A person may actually experience the wounds of Jesus and bleed daily or suffer the tramas of Christ. With the possibility of suffering all the pains ie nailed to the cross wounds, spear in side wound, crown of thorns wound, whipping with whip wounds.

In Buddahism, a truly devote person who has achieved Nirvanna may elect to halt thier journey and remain as a Buddhisvitta (sp?) . These people are enlightened and stay to share their guidance and help for the persons'/ people coming after them.

In Shinto a person may come back as another life form. Part of the belief in ancestor worship in some nomadic tribes or the belief that people come back as some everyday creature. Similar to the reincarnation theory of Karma but not quit the same.

Yet what of the Pagan / Heathen traditions? Are their signs that are placed upon the truly devote that place them above the average pagan / heathen? Is thier a Pagan / Heathen forms of Stigmata?

[Simply Puzzled]

Yet what of the Pagan / Heathen traditions? Are their signs that are placed upon the truly devote that place them above the average pagan / heathen? Is their a Pagan / Heathen forms of Stigmata?

Did someone just use the phrase "average pagan?" :viking:

Anyway, I dislike the frame of having pagans that are sort of chosen to be above most of us. If I was going to put it in Christian terms (which you seem to be more familiar with), I would use the words of Paul:

1 Cor. 12:7-11 “But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all: for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit, to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by the same Spirit, to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills.

I'd quibble with him about his use of the singular, but to each his own. One thing I appreciate about paganism is the way we all have unique talents we bring. Some people are artisans, fashioning objects of beauty that draw us closer to our gods. Others have the gift of oracle and divination, telling us who we are and where we stand in the cosmos. Some are priests, performing the rituals that must be performed. We have healers that can remove our physical and mental ailments. We also have elders that are respected not for their age, but because they've been there, done that, and got the t-shirt.

As always, the strength of our community is the diversity, and if the gods just started branding certain people and saying "look, they are better than you cause I said so" I can't help but think that would only hurt us.

I know it was really a long way of saying "no" but it got me thinking about why such a sign wouldn't really fit in.

[cheddarsox]

*joke*

Above average pagans get freed from the obsessive need to wear black, 3 and a half pounds of metal jewelry, and use the word Goddess in every other sentence. They get to leave home without their tarot deck, incense, and the three latests must read pagan books.

*end joke*

Since there are thousands of faiths under the pagan umbrella...I don't think there is a single sign of spiritual depth among pagans. I think it is a case of "to each, their own".

Also...some of the people who receive the stigmata...are not deeply spiritual, at least not in a "good" way. Some of them were pretty scary hysteric types. And I expect that just about any religion has their share of weirdos who "receive signs" but not always spiritual depth. This is in no way to discount those stigmatists who are truly, deeply spiritual.

I expect that true deep spiritual understanding crosses religious borders. That most of us can recognize a deeply spiritual person of any faith...not by outward signs...but by something stronger, quieter and less flashy.

I don't know if any of that answers your question, sorry, I was just musing over the subject in general.

[MonSno_LeeDra]

put it in Christian terms (which you seem to be more familiar with),


No, not more familiar with. Christanity just happens to be the main religion that has a physical manifestation of a worshipers devotion. Yes, having grown up in a Christian dominated culture it's sort of hard not to pick up things with regards to that mythos.



As always, the strength of our community is the diversity, and if the gods just started branding certain people and saying "look, they are better than you cause I said so" I can't help but think that would only hurt us


True but in this instances I wasn't refering to what one gets from their gods / goddess. I was refering to a physical manafestation of thier devotion to that god / goddess.

With regards to being branded as better, sorry but it has happened before and will happen again. Thier are to many epic sagas, eddas of chosen persons being raised to great levels. Certain persons will be chosen for reasons possibily beyond our comprehension possibly not. Heck, as a community we oursleves elevate other above us. We do it with sports heroes, great artist, muscians, etc.

Does that elavation hurt us? I honestly don't know but it does give us something to aspire to.

Another factor here to be considered is what one's persceptions of the gods / goddess are. If I strongly believe that Artemis is the only goddess and no others exist then it is possible to my persception that she could mark me with some sort of sign. The same applies to a devote follower of Bast or Hera or Sif or any of the many Gods / Goddess from our past.

Granted a universal marking seems improbable yet a mark special to Artemis would seem probable. I admit it is possible the mark maybe self induced from my mind but it still would be unique to her from my perspective.



In my tradition (Irish polytheism) some people may have their iomas (divine light/inspiration) fully awakened which brings one to a state similar to "enlightenment".


This sounds very much like the concept of Kundalini rising . I had not though of that as a physical presentation of devotion but in retrospect I guess it would be. For the person that achieved such a level and could maintain it would definatley stand out from the crown.




Also...some of the people who receive the stigmata...are not deeply spiritual, at least not in a "good" way. Some of them were pretty scary hysteric types.


Good is perspective driven. The fact one may not appear good to us does not rule out they are devote in their religious beliefs. The cult of Kali in Indian was not good to us but very devote to their dark goddess.

I do not question whether one is good or bad just asking is thier more than "Stigmata" as a physical manefestation of a persons devotion to their religion.

[Sethserpenthus]

I would not say that there is anything that really puts one "above" the "average" Pagan, because really if there was we would have a lot more people claiming to have those particular marks/traits in order to raise their prestige.

In particular traditions and practices I'm sure they exist.

In palmistry there are certain marks referred to as "stigmata," and there are marks that are supposed to imply the potential to be a certain way. I guess that's similar.

[MonSno_LeeDra]

Sethserpenthus wrote:



In palmistry there are certain marks referred to as "stigmata


That does make sense to me. I know in some professions any tatoo or physical marking that one may place upon thier body is also known as Stigmata.

Granted not the "unique" variations seen in Christanity, but if one thinks of the body adornments of old ie tatoo's, piercings, etc then I think thier are more versions of stigmata than the common person thinks of.

However, just mention the word Stigmata and the mind tends to go to the Christian version immediately.