Here is the problem

[RenDjembe]

I keep running into this. This if from
a Pagan Awareness site:

Some Pagan systems and religions

Witchcraft: Also known as Wicca or simply the Craft. Honoring of Goddess and God (some traditions honor the Goddess alone), use of magic, and healing, all within the context of "If it harm none, do what you will." Pagan Witchcraft has nothing to do with and is antithetical to Satanism.

Witchcraft also known as Wicca?? Can't these people get anything right.

Rant is over.

[LostSheep]

Imagine if somewhere said
"Christianity: Also known as Catholicism". I bet there'd be a few arguments.

Hmm.

[RenDjembe]

Wrong. WITCHCRAFT to many is NOT a Religion.

[LostSheep]

sorry. i was trying to agree.


:(

[David19]

I keep running into this. This if from
a Pagan Awareness site:

Some Pagan systems and religions

Witchcraft: Also known as Wicca or simply the Craft. Honoring of Goddess and God (some traditions honor the Goddess alone), use of magic, and healing, all within the context of "If it harm none, do what you will." Pagan Witchcraft has nothing to do with and is antithetical to Satanism.

Witchcraft also known as Wicca?? Can't these people get anything right.

Rant is over.

That annoys me too, and I'll either tell them (if it's on a forum), that there are many witches who aren't Wiccan, and that Satanism isn't "evil" (it's funny many Wiccans say they don't believe in pure evil, and yet that's what they say Satanism is :huh: ).

[David19]

sorry. i was trying to agree.


:(

Don't worry, that was clear to me :).

[SphinYote]

Where in the world was he saying it was a religion? Did I miss something?

And have you tried actually emailing these sites in a nonconfrontational way, citing actual sources? I'm not saying we need a source here, we all know this (I hope), but if they are putting up misinformation, then your word of mouth isn't going to mean jack to them unless you back it up.

Yote

[Lunacie]

Wrong. WITCHCRAFT to many is NOT a Religion.




But for some Witchcraft is a religion, eh. :whatgives

[MonSno_LeeDra]

In many circumstances the popular defination of a word or phrase is what makes it to the dictionary.

Today the comparrison of Wicca and Witchcraft is what the popular defination of the term correlates to. That many Witches do not accept the defination pales in comparrison to the number of "Wiccans" that ascribe to the belief. The most read source of books and popular lore writes this is so and in the minds of many outside the system it must be so.

Unfortunately, a single voice in the crowd does nothing to change it. Only when the collective voice is raised and crys foul will it change. At this time the only collective voice being raised are the "Wiccans", so the writers are listening to the "Wiccans".

So under those conditions they have got it right. Unfortunatley, until the econimic factor takes affect upon the defination the conclusion will stay the same. When you buy a book that says Witchcraft = Wicca it will. You want to change it you've got to hit them where it hurts first ie the wallet then it will be corrected.

[Fiamma]

Right, witchcraft in and of itself is not a religion, it is a craft that can be practiced within or without a religious context.


Wrong. WITCHCRAFT to many is NOT a Religion.

[Toby Stimpson]

I thought the debate was still on that wicca and witchcraft was synonymous. To me of course they're not... just like the whole debate about whether or not Witchcraft by it's self is a religion... or if it keeps just being confused with Wicca. I know I have written pages and pages in both PMs and debates on this site about why witchcraft in it's self is not a religion... but still a lot of people disagree, which is their right.

I try to as much as possible stay away from pagan Awareness websites, and the whole so called 'Fight the fear' campaign as much as possible becasue I have seen they are as confused or still debating the meanings of some terms and phrases...so how can you make ppl aware if you yourself are still either confused or in disagreement.

[TheWomanMonster]

I stopped caring about what misinformed people think about me so long ago...
if they're not totally ignorant they'll ask and learn from it.
Otherwise, who gives a crap?
:smileroll

[jcldragon]

I think you'll get a kick out of this.

I attended a Pagen Event, and there was a booth of Santanists. Now I was wondering what Santanists would be doing at a Pagan Event in the first place... Anyway, the Santanists attempted to impress me with how evil they were. So I asked them, if they were so evil, did they support George Bush, the NWO, & the Illuminati. Then they said, "No! We're not THAT evil!"

hehehe I just couldn't resist doing that.

um... Did you hear about the Witch who on Halloween, gave away Fluffy Bunnies?

Q: What did the Pagan say to the Zen Buddhist?
A: You ain't seen Nothing yet!

Q: What did the Tibetian Lama say to the Mayan Shaman?
A: It's been a Long Year!

[Danyjames]

Merry Meet,
I may be incorrect in stating this, but isn't Satanism evil because the Christians said so? All they're doing is worshipping a deity.

Brightest Blessings,
Ariel

[Darbla]

Did you hear about the Witch who on Halloween, gave away Fluffy Bunnies?
I heard she made rabbit stew. :devil:

[aluokaloo]

i'm sick of wiccans (other then christians) who believe that satanism is evil, those people are annoying.

[Lunacie]

Why is it more annoying for Wiccans to have not learned anything about Satanism? I was Wiccan for about 10 years before I got online and actually had a chance to read about Satanism and talk to people who know what it really is about. Why do you feel Wiccans should be better informed than anyone else? It would be nice if everyone took the time to learn something about other religions besides their own, and yeah it's okay if you just want to learn about your own religion but in that case you should be quiet about other religions.

[~Elise~]

Lunacie--you are so correct. People need to learn to find out things for themselves before spouting off something they've heard from somewhere else. (I was guilty of that same thing re: Satanism) I went and did my homework... and realized I was wrong.

I almost quit Pagan Unity Campaign over that very thing a few years back... they were writing up a new description of what they stood for and were saying something incorrect about Satanism... they actually listened to me and changed it. I thought that was very cool of 'em.

As for the OP topic... Witchcraft doesn't equal Wicca, and I agree that, of all places, a pagan awareness site should have it correct, but other than writing some polite correct info for them, there isn't much that can be done, in reality.

Elise

[Willow Rosette]

I stopped caring about what misinformed people think about me so long ago...
if they're not totally ignorant they'll ask and learn from it.
Otherwise, who gives a crap?
:smileroll


That is exactly how I feel.


Merry Meet,
but isn't Satanism evil because the Christians said so?

Just because the Christians say something is "evil" doesnt make it so.

[aluokaloo]

Why is it more annoying for Wiccans to have not learned anything about Satanism? I was Wiccan for about 10 years before I got online and actually had a chance to read about Satanism and talk to people who know what it really is about. Why do you feel Wiccans should be better informed than anyone else? It would be nice if everyone took the time to learn something about other religions besides their own, and yeah it's okay if you just want to learn about your own religion but in that case you should be quiet about other religions.

because alot of the wiccans i have met (offline and online, but not here) believe that satanists are immoral, fake, evil, deserve everything bad that happens to them, while demanding tolerance, and preaching tolerance. but not learning to walk their own talk, I've even met wiccans who have openly admitted to go out of their way to bind and curse satanists and even chaotes for get this-not following the wiccan rede or threefold law. now how sad and ironic is that? i'll admit i once was naive enough to believe that pagans were as really tolerant as they claimed to be. people like this opened my eyes. i'm not saying all of them do it, but alot of them do despise, and act willfully ignorant of satanists. tshis is actuall the only online place i know where al faiths are given equal tolerance and treatment. I'm not saying that everyone should stick only with their own faith, and that wiccans should be better learned then everyone else, I'm sorry that you percieved it that way, and i'm in a bad mood lunacie so I'm not gonna start a fight with you or anyone else kay?

[Lunacie]

I'm not trying to fight with you either, Aluokaloo. I don't know where you live, but I do know that the Wiccans I've met in this area don't act like that or believe that Satanists are evil. I have, in the past, seen a few Pagans and Wiccans who said that Satanists were bad in order to make Paganism or Wicca look good by comparison. But I haven't seen that in the last half a dozen years at least. And I've put in my two cents worth whenever I have seen someone say things like that in order to correct the misinformation.

I just try to share the right information to counteract the misinformation and let people come to their own conclusions. Satanists have had a bad rep for a long time, and acceptance won't come overnight.

[BlackLili]

It has often been said, "Wiccans can be Witches, but not all Witches choose to be Wiccan."

[aluokaloo]

I'm not trying to fight with you either, Aluokaloo. I don't know where you live, but I do know that the Wiccans I've met in this area don't act like that or believe that Satanists are evil. I have, in the past, seen a few Pagans and Wiccans who said that Satanists were bad in order to make Paganism or Wicca look good by comparison. But I haven't seen that in the last half a dozen years at least. And I've put in my two cents worth whenever I have seen someone say things like that in order to correct the misinformation.

I just try to share the right information to counteract the misinformation and let people come to their own conclusions. Satanists have had a bad rep for a long time, and acceptance won't come overnight.

ok cool, as i said i'm not saying all of them do it, but i've met a decent number

[Lunacie]

Okay, here's my two cents. Wiccans are tolerant of other's right to believe whatever they believe. But being tolerant of that right doesn't mean we are tolerant that those beliefs are good, especially when they seem to be harming others. So that leads me to a couple of possible scenarios.

One - that the Wiccans you have met who condemn Satanism may have met some bad people who claimed to be Satanists; and based on those personal experiences they decided that Satanic beliefs must be bad and evil and seem to cause harm to others. I can't discount personal experiences but they are generally pretty limited in comparison to the number of Satanic (or Wiccan) practicioners there are scattered around the world nowadays.

Two - that there is prevalent attitude (especially here in the States) of using one's personal beliefs to judge the rest of the world by. In my experience the Wiccan Rede is not a Law that Wiccans must follow, much less a law that the rest of the world should follow. I do believe it is good advice when it has been properly interpretated in the full context of when and why it was written, and good advice should always be of value. (It is not simply two words "Harm None", which would be a virtual impossibility to live by.)

I myself have never Cursed anyone, of any religion. I have cast a Binding on less than a handful of people in the whole 18 years I've been following the Wiccan path. I have to believe that what they are doing is harmful to me or others, and feel I have no other option before I will do a Binding. People who run around doing Curses and Bindings willy-nilly are simply too full of their own sense of importance and not open enough to learn from others. :awilly:

Just as I would not judge all Satanists or Chaotes by the actions or words of a minority of them, I hope that others are not judging all Wiccans or Pagans by a small minority either.

[MonSno_LeeDra]

Lunacie wrote:



Just as I would not judge all Satanists or Chaotes by the actions or words of a minority of them, I hope that others are not judging all Wiccans or Pagans by a small minority either.


I find I have to remind myself of that all the time. Frequently I cringe when someone tells they are Wiccan. After that all these images and thoughs just clutter my mind of every Silver Raven Wolf inductee I have met.

Then its a proactive process to make myself look at them for what they show not what I expect them to show. _whistle_ Though sometimes its like watching a Monty Python movie watching them.

[Lunacie]

Ah expectations. **sigh**

I recently turned away a possible new member for our little (but growing) eclectic Grove. Why? Because she came from a Temple situation and was having trouble scaling back her expectations and adjusting to the concept of an Eclectic group.

[BlackLili]

Ah expectations. **sigh**

I recently turned away a possible new member for our little (but growing) eclectic Grove. Why? Because she came from a Temple situation and was having trouble scaling back her expectations and adjusting to the concept of an Eclectic group.

She just expected you to be more Wiccan, or more Temple, or what? I'm always curious about people's expectations of others.

[Lunacie]

I think she expected us to be more advanced than we are, since we have been a group for about five years, but some of the members have only been in the group for about two years, and the former leader hadn't done much training as I found out. She said she was doing individual classes with some of the members, but heck if I know what she was teaching them. When I took over 5 months ago I realized that they don't know any of the basics really. So we started at the beginning.

[Lady_Door]

I try and avoid people that make statements about topics they know nothing about.