Is this fair?

[PrincessKLS]

I know this may sound a bit political but really it's not. Do you think evil dictators and world leaders either go to hell or are reincarnated into a person with a more simpler, crappy, really crappy life or do you think something different happens?

I was thinking about this, for example the US and Western world is against Osama and al-Quaeda and other Islamic terrorists and a lot of US Christians believe they are doomed to hell and their US leaders are better than the Islamic terrorist leaders, however it's basically the same thing over there, the Islamic terrorists believe they are doing God's work and will go to their heaven and that the Christians in the Western World are doomed to hell. So (and this will sound controversial) who is really right or wrong? Each side believes the other is wrong and hurting the world.

I in no way support Bin Laden and other such terrorists but really what is to come?

[Shanti]

None are right and none wrong.
There is no way to really know if any religious beliefs are real.


Hence I'm an atheist.

[PrincessKLS]

Welcome aethist to a pagan forum, hiya.

[Shanti]

Welcome aethist to a pagan forum, hiya.
?

~looks to see if this is the intro thread~

[Bettie]

The whole heaven and hell concept is a Christian one. I don't believe so-called "evil" people go to Hell, anymore than I think "good" people go to Heaven, because I don't believe either place exists. I also don't believe in the existence of karma as a form of divine retribution, so I don't believe that "evil dictators" are reincarnated into something as a form of punishment for what they did in their previous lives.

[Toby Stimpson]

Welcome aethist to a pagan forum, hiya.

Shanti has been around here a while... its nice that your welcoming her...but I do believe she already feels welcomed...or I should hope she does.

As for yuor question, it's definitly a valid one. I always like to think of the answer to it as coming down to perception. Good and evil is all in the eye of the beholder. What is sinful in one culture isnt going to be a sin in another... especially if thsoe cultures are very different. Now Im not a Christian or Islamic scholar...but Ill address it from my own tradsitions perspective...

All beigns are created and live to be reborn, reincarnation. Deeds commited in this life will determine what happens in the next life... or where you are. When it comes to what is seen as good or abd deeds though... THAT I cant answer becasue again it depends on the culture or the ideological perception you have over your eyes. Every one has a bias... everyone has a certain perception. So there is no answer to your question because to make one would inevitably be making a value statement for or against a group. Now saying that, does not show my particular feelings towards terrorist groups... only that to answer your question from a theological stand point is impossible because there are so many things to take into account both on a sociological level and a theological level.

I hope that kind of adds food for thought. Good question though!

Namaste

Tobias

p.s. For those who didnt know, Galadraal has returned :cool:

[David19]

Personally, I don't think there is just one reality, I don't think it's a matter of "one belief is right, the other is wrong", I think if the Christian and Islamic heaven and hell do exist, I just won't be in either, so if a Christian dictator sins against his god, he'll go to their hell, Al Queda will probably go to their hell as well.

I think when we die, we don't go to the same places.

I can't remember the exact post, but I think Shanti said it best when she said, we aren't all connected to the same realm(s), for some, there are no gods, for others, there are gods or god, etc, neither is "right" or "wrong".

[David19]

p.s. For those who didnt know, Galadraal has returned :cool:

:welcome: back, I didn't even realise you had left.

[Toby Stimpson]

I think whats important to mention here though is that we cannot generalize! Osama Bin laden does not represent the entirety of Islam...and neither does Bush the entirety of Christianity. To create a 'Us vs. Them' scenario is not helping, in my opinion.

If I understand your question correctly...you want to know who on this conflict is going to Heaven and who to Hell, right? Both are claiming that one side will go to Hell, and that they themselves are doing God's will. I want to know... is this truly a question we should be playing into or completly discounting? The truth is, we don't know... but it is 'wrong' to say that both sides are fulfilling the highest goals of their Religions. They may be using Religion... but is it truly the religion they are aspiring to...or merely their own agendas?

[Shanti]

I think whats important to mention here though is that we cannot generalize! Osama Bin laden does not represent the entirety of Islam...and neither does Bush the entirety of Christianity. To create a 'Us vs. Them' scenario is not helping, in my opinion.

If I understand your question correctly...you want to know who on this conflict is going to Heaven and who to Hell, right? Both are claiming that one side will go to Hell, and that they themselves are doing God's will. I want to know... is this truly a question we should be playing into or completly discounting? The truth is, we don't know... but it is 'wrong' to say that both sides are fulfilling the highest goals of their Religions. They may be using Religion... but is it truly the religion they are aspiring to...or merely their own agendas?Wonderfully said. :)

[Meadhbh]

They'll go to were ever the believe they need to go. Life isn't fair, life is never fair. But somethings need to be done to have balance in the universe. If the scales are tiped to far in either direction worse things will happen. So the powers that be take steps to prevent that from happening.

[David19]

They'll go to were ever the believe they need to go. Life isn't fair, life is never fair. But somethings need to be done to have balance in the universe. If the scales are tiped to far in either direction worse things will happen. So the powers that be take steps to prevent that from happening.

I agree with you.

[PrincessKLS]

I'd love to meet the person who claims to be the reincarnation of Hitler, and see how they think or how they currently live. Like I've mentioned before in my recent incarnation I was an SS Solider so perhaps, Hitler was my boss. I know my feelings about tolerance vs intolerance in this life so it would be interesting.

But with my luck, everyone would claim to be Hitler just like everyone claims to be Cleopatra (there were only so many in ancient Egypt) :lol:

[Meadhbh]

Some how I doubt your going to get a lot of sane people claiming to be Hitler.

[wolfjan1]

Well, if reincarnation was your chosen belief, then all of the oppressors would comeback as the oppressed, and keep coming back that way until they learned their lesson. You can probably see how many of the powers that be would have to come back 20 or 30 times before they got it.

[wolfjan1]

Some how I doubt your going to get a lot of sane people claiming to be Hitler.
You would be suprised. This is a CRAZY world.

[Garm]

Well, if reincarnation was your chosen belief, then all of the oppressors would comeback as the oppressed, and keep coming back that way until they learned their lesson. You can probably see how many of the powers that be would have to come back 20 or 30 times before they got it.

I doubt it.

Me and the people I have met who had their time in the SS have come back as either anarchists, interracial sex enthusiasts or mulattoes or whatever, but I have always seen a strong reaction to and against what they were. A lesson like that does not take more than one lifetime to learn.

What you do to others you do to yourself, it's more like a baggage you carry with you than something you experience, unless of course it leads to one to self destruct which, very traumatically, I have also seen.

The insights you gain in to conflict and human nature are another burden and the spirit of fascism is more common in mundane life than you would probably want to know about, it's like being doomed to see the same things happening again and again.

I get the feeling Hitler is probably a industrial musician now, if he's not the head of a gangsta rap crew.

[Tullip Troll]

they all die, find out the truth and then move on from there just like the rest of us

[Lady Aeris]

Well i dont know, the whole heaven and hell concept is very christian and as far as reincarnation- i believe in, but i have no solid beliefs on what happens after death. There is no way to figure it out until you die anyways, so i'll be content to wait.
Now, the itchy mean part of my witchiness would love it if they were reincarnated into something humiliating and useless and.. stuff like that. But, straying away from the nasty, I should think that between karma and the fates and the universal system and the gods, my itchy witch would be unsatisfied, but things would be right in the world and their next life would reflect what they deserved. If that's how it worked. Who knows?

[Philosophia]

I know this may sound a bit political but really it's not. Do you think evil dictators and world leaders either go to hell or are reincarnated into a person with a more simpler, crappy, really crappy life or do you think something different happens?

They go where ever they want to, as long as its no where near me. ;)

[SweetIsTheTruth]

I know this may sound a bit political but really it's not. Do you think evil dictators and world leaders either go to hell or are reincarnated into a person with a more simpler, crappy, really crappy life or do you think something different happens?

I have no proof that ANY afterlife is real or occurs at all.



I was thinking about this, for example the US and Western world is against Osama and al-Quaeda and other Islamic terrorists and a lot of US Christians believe they are doomed to hell and their US leaders are better than the Islamic terrorist leaders, however it's basically the same thing over there, the Islamic terrorists believe they are doing God's work and will go to their heaven and that the Christians in the Western World are doomed to hell. So (and this will sound controversial) who is really right or wrong?

They are both like children on a playground;

Christian: You better obey my Daddy or he will kick your *ss!
Mulsim; Oh yeah? You better obey my Daddy or he will kick your *ss!