Question for recons. Any recon

[IvyWitch]

I don't want this to come across the wrong way, so I'll do my best to phrase this as best I can. But, let me also qualify this by saying I mean no disrespect for non-recon paths.

I hear often from recons, specifically Celtic ones since that's the circle I trvael in, that the Gods have asked them to do something that involved research, cultural involvement, or even learning a foreign language. From the accounts I have read from them, it seems as if the Gods prefer a "historically accurate" way of devotion than a more modern one. But, is this entirely accurate? Or is it simply a case of the Gods choosing to meet us where we are, and aren't necessarily concerned with how we worship at all?

If they do care, then are more modern paths any less valid?
If they don't care, then what is the benefit of reconstruction, other than our personal preference?

[TomasFlannabhra]

I don't want this to come across the wrong way, so I'll do my best to phrase this as best I can. But, let me also qualify this by saying I mean no disrespect for non-recon paths.

I hear often from recons, specifically Celtic ones since that's the circle I trvael in, that the Gods have asked them to do something that involved research, cultural involvement, or even learning a foreign language. From the accounts I have read from them, it seems as if the Gods prefer a "historically accurate" way of devotion than a more modern one. But, is this entirely accurate? Or is it simply a case of the Gods choosing to meet us where we are, and aren't necessarily concerned with how we worship at all?

If they do care, then are more modern paths any less valid?
If they don't care, then what is the benefit of reconstruction, other than our personal preference?

It's not that I think they prefer a more "historically accurate" form of worship so-to-say, but they prefer to be honored in a culturaly traditional way. Our way of worship and reverence is somewhat modern as we don't know the exact details of ancient worship and devotion, rather we take inspiration from the ancient practices we do know and apply them into a modern context. CR is a modern tradition but with a basis in the past.

Obviously if the pagan religions of the Celts survived today, they wouldn't be the same as they were in the Iron Age; just as Catholocism isn't the same as it was in the 6th century CE, however they have kept their traditional elements into the modern era. Religion evolves, it has to or else it dies. What we CRs do is attempt to answer the question that if those ancient religions had survived to today, what would they be like?

I believe the Gods and spirits DO care how we approach them in ritual and worship. From my kinship with them, I've learned that they prefer to be honored in their traditional cultural context. As we are reconstructionist and attempt to modernly reflect ancient practices, we know that our distant ancestors did not honor the Gods in a Wiccan or Greek context and it would not be appropriate nor respectful for us to do so as the Gods have their unique mode of worship, and the Wiccans and the Greeks have theirs. CR is more of an orthopraxy rather than an orthodoxy.

Modern paths are no less valid, some are just less traditional or historical. Others have evolved with time or adapted to the modern era.

[Hærfest Leah]

Look at it this way....The gods want their "followers" for lack of a better term to be well learned in their culture and history before going at them willy nilly and then offending them and/or just plain making a fool out of themselves. As with anything else, do not start unless you know what your doing.

[Theres]

I hear often from recons, specifically Celtic ones since that's the circle I trvael in, that the Gods have asked them to do something that involved research, cultural involvement, or even learning a foreign language. From the accounts I have read from them, it seems as if the Gods prefer a "historically accurate" way of devotion than a more modern one. But, is this entirely accurate? Or is it simply a case of the Gods choosing to meet us where we are, and aren't necessarily concerned with how we worship at all?

If they do care, then are more modern paths any less valid?
If they don't care, then what is the benefit of reconstruction, other than our personal preference?
i don't think it is really that literal.

i think what They want from us is a sign of devotion, some sort of committment. and what better committment in a modern, disposable, me-first world than to actually make an effort to meet Them on Their ground?

[Garm]

Depends on the God, doesn't it?

It figures some of them will take more kindly to the benefits of modernity than others.

[S_Wodening]

I look at recon paths being more valid because they try to accurately reconstruct the ancient people's forms of worship. An ancient Germanic 10 year old would know more about the worship of the Gods and Goddesses than a modern adult today. They were raised in a purely pagan culture, and in touch with thousands of years of pagan tradition. Their beliefs were formulated by generations of peoples, and not just a handfull. All this makes the ancient religion more valid than a modern one. And recons in trying to reconstruct the ancient religions IMO have a more valid way of doing things. As for the Gods themselves, I think their preferences are reflected in the ancient ways of doing things. I really do not think they change to suit our needs or our level of technology. Things were done the way they were for thousands of years for a reason. And when things did change they did so slowly. Therefore, using what we know of the ancient religions only makes sense.

[Seren_]

From the accounts I have read from them, it seems as if the Gods prefer a "historically accurate" way of devotion than a more modern one. But, is this entirely accurate? Or is it simply a case of the Gods choosing to meet us where we are, and aren't necessarily concerned with how we worship at all?

If they do care, then are more modern paths any less valid?
If they don't care, then what is the benefit of reconstruction, other than our personal preference?

(From a CR perspective) I don't believe it's always a case of 'historically accurate' devotion because I don't believe that it's possible to do such a thing, when all's said and done. What once was is gone, and while we do have a lot of information to sift through to help us reconstruct a path, I don't think I can say that my practises are authentically ancient (as reconstructing implies to me).

I see what I'm doing - looking at the history, the folklore and the archaeology etc - as trying to understand the culture that I'm focusing on. Since what we know of the gods comes through the eyes of that culture, I think it's a good place to start in trying to understand who they are and how best to approach them and (hopefully) build a relationship with them.

I suppose that's why my own path relies heavily on traditional folklore, and I like what skilly said in another thread - "folklore (although Xianized) represents the living history of what was before." And to me, since the folklore tends to preserve elements of beliefs past in a more modern context (and therefore perhaps more identifiable time - the beliefs have been retained albeit in a Christian context, but they've evolved in a way that speaks to my situation in a modern society) it's been a wealth of information to me. I don't ignore the history or the archaeology, but things like the practice of digging large pits in which to place a tree upside down with other offerings isn't as relevant (or possible) to my situation in the modern world as visiting a well, or leaving offerings on stones, say...All of which are appropriate to a CR path.

That said, I don't believe it's any more or less valid than any other path. Before I identified as a recon, I was a Wiccan. Ultimately the path wasn't for me (square pegs don't tend to fit into round holes), but the experiences I had as a Wiccan were no less real or powerful than the experiences I've had as a recon. It's just that I realised, as I began to learn more about Wicca, the Celts and then pagan paths as a whole, that I could understand the gods and my relationship with them better in a reconstructionist context rather than a different one.

So I guess I believe that everyone has a path to walk, and no, I don't necessarily agree with the approach that someone else might take (who does?), but I don't consider my approach more valid than anyone else's in a non-reconstructionist context. Except to myself.

As to whether the gods care, then I think that's entirely dependant upon Them, and it's not one I'm big enough or ugly enough to answer :) I think another issue to consider and add to the mix is who you're talking about. If some non-reconstructionists don't see the gods as most recons do (as individuals etc - soft or hard polytheism) and see them as archetypes or whatever, what are they connecting with when they worship/honour them? Is it the same thing, or something different? I think I could guess the answer from both perspectives...

[Twinkle]

To me it's more about respect. And for me, the most respectful way for me to honor the gods is in the correct cultural context.

To invoke Aphrodite for a love spell would be impious from a cultural perspective, and for a modern practitioner to do that I would also consider impious.

I don't claim my path to be any more valid than any other...it's just...different. And it's who I am.

[ModernKnight]

From the accounts I have read from them, it seems as if the Gods prefer a "historically accurate" way of devotion than a more modern one. But, is this entirely accurate? Or is it simply a case of the Gods choosing to meet us where we are, and aren't necessarily concerned with how we worship at all?

If they do care, then are more modern paths any less valid?
If they don't care, then what is the benefit of reconstruction, other than our personal preference?

You're thinking about it from your perspective, which is really not particularly helpful for this question. Instead, try to think about the situation from the god's perspective. The ancient cults were established in part as an evolution of the culture of the worshipers and in part due to the preferences of the god themselves. Now, one or two thousand years later, new people crop up and pray to the old gods. Do you think the gods would respond better to people who take the time and effort to get to know the god in detail, his/her preferences and the details of their cult? Or do you think the god would respond better to people who don't care to take the time to learn the ways the god is accustomed to being addressed?

Now, I'm not advocating complete reconstructionism ... I'm not going to be building a temple anytime soon, or offering human sacrifice. Still, if you're going to ask a god for a favor, it's only polite to ask in the way he/she's become accustomed to being asked.

[Twinkle]

I do need to point out that we know virtually nothing of the Mystery Cults of the Greek Gods...to reconstruct those, we'd have to virtually start from scratch.

Reconstructionism is a modern day practice reconstructed from ancient practices. To do this we use historical and archaeological evidence, and scholarly sources. When there is a question we compare with other cultures...basically, we make an educated guess.

Reconstructionist religions are based on orthopraxy...not orthodoxy...so while beliefs about the gods and theology may differ, there is still a correct way to practice. It's how the Ancient Greeks did it, and so, as Recons...it's how we do it, to the best of our ability.

I hope to see a temple constructed in my lifetime...I would love to see a sacred hearth erected publicly.

Human sacrifice went out a long time ago...but I am not against animal sacrifice, if done correctly and in the proper cultural context. Reconstructionism is not traditionalism. We are not trying to be an Ancient Culture. We are a modern day religion attempting to reconstruct ancient practices, which means we have to understand that we live in the 21st century and adjust our practice accordingly.

[TomasFlannabhra]

I do need to point out that we know virtually nothing of the Mystery Cults of the Greek Gods...to reconstruct those, we'd have to virtually start from scratch.

Reconstructionism is a modern day practice reconstructed from ancient practices. To do this we use historical and archaeological evidence, and scholarly sources. When there is a question we compare with other cultures...basically, we make an educated guess.

Reconstructionist religions are based on orthopraxy...not orthodoxy...so while beliefs about the gods and theology may differ, there is still a correct way to practice. It's how the Ancient Greeks did it, and so, as Recons...it's how we do it, to the best of our ability.

I hope to see a temple constructed in my lifetime...I would love to see a sacred hearth erected publicly.

Human sacrifice went out a long time ago...but I am not against animal sacrifice, if done correctly and in the proper cultural context. Reconstructionism is not traditionalism. We are not trying to be an Ancient Culture. We are a modern day religion attempting to reconstruct ancient practices, which means we have to understand that we live in the 21st century and adjust our practice accordingly.

Amen =P