Rhea & Kybele

[Agaliha]

So...I don't usually post threads like this, but in my reading I kept seeing Rhea come up and thought I'd do a quick detour. (I added Kybele to the title because they seem to be entwined myth and history wise).

There's a WHOLE bunch of info on her on Theoi alone, obviously I haven't read it all. http://www.theoi.com/Titan/TitanisRhea.html (http://www.theoi.com/Titan/TitanisRhea.html)

She seems quite facinating and it got me wondering if anyone honors her today. Is she of any importance to Hellenismos and/or Religio Romana (practice & worship wise)? It seems in the past Kybele and her were very powerful and their worship widespread--Rome, Crete, Greece, Anatolia, etc. I'm just curious about now in modern times.


Snippet from the Wiki article:

In Homer, Rhea is the mother of the gods, though not a universal mother like Cybele, the Phrygian Great Mother, with whom she was later identified. The original seat of her worship was in Crete. There, according to myth, she saved the new-born Zeus, her sixth child, from being devoured by Cronos, by substituting a stone for the infant god and entrusting him to the care of her attendants the Curetes. These attendants afterwards became the bodyguard of Zeus and the priests of Rhea, and performed ceremonies in her honor. In historic times, the resemblances between Rhea and the Asiatic Great Mother, Phrygian Cybele, a manifestation of the Great Goddess, were so noticeable that the Greeks accounted for them by regarding the latter as their own Rhea, who had deserted her original home in Crete and fled to the mountain wilds of Asia Minor to escape the persecution of Cronus (Strabo. 469, 12). A reverse view was held by (Virgil, Aeneid iii), and it is probably true that cultural contacts with the mainland brought to Crete the worship of the Asiatic Great Mother, who became the Cretan Rhea.

Most often Rhea's symbol is a pair of lions, the ones that pulled her celestial chariot and were seen often, rampant, one on either side of the gateways through the walls to many cities in the ancient world. The one at Mycenae is most characteristic, with the lions placed on either side of a pillar that symbolizes the goddess.



Oh and some other sites about her:
(archived from the Temple of Demeter) The Meter Theon Pages (http://web.archive.org/web/20060505021708/www.templeofdemeter.com/meter.html) (two links are broken)
Rhea (http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0oGkmLn_AhHDHkBNelXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTFhbmd2Z292BHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDMgRjb2xvA3NrMQR2dGlkA01BUDAxM185O QRsA1dTMQ--/SIG=120sm1g22/EXP=1191857767/**http%3a//www.pantheon.org/articles/r/rhea.html)
Rhea - Wikipedia (http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0oGklsR_QhHp0IA3mdXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTFhNTdwcm1yBHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDNARjb2xvA3NrMQR2dGlkA01BUDAxM185O QRsA1dTMQ--/SIG=11l3hbtce/EXP=1191857809/**http%3a//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhea)
Preparing the Mind for Meditation: Hymn To Rhea (http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0oGkmSp_QhHWzIATIVXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTFhNWxrMzE3BHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDMQRjb2xvA3NrMQR2dGlkA01BUDAxM185O QRsA1dTMQ--/SIG=11ot2p4r8/EXP=1191857961/**http%3a//www.fourfoldpath.org/rhea.htm)
Orphic Hymn: Rhea (http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0oGkmSp_QhHWzIAUoVXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTFhNTdwcm1yBHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDNARjb2xvA3NrMQR2dGlkA01BUDAxM185O QRsA1dTMQ--/SIG=12alom6ln/EXP=1191857961/**http%3a//www.sibyllineorder.org/sacred_texts/oh_rhea.htm) & with footnotes: XIII: To Rhea (http://www.sacred-texts.com/cla/hoo/hoo18.htm)
Compendium of the Gods: (http://www.wargoddess.net/greek/rel/compendium/kybele.php)Kybele (http://www.wargoddess.net/greek/rel/compendium/kybele.php)(Rhea is listed as an alternate name)
The Mother of the Gods (http://www.sacred-texts.com/cla/mgr/mgr13.htm) (maybe)

comments, thoughts, discussion appreciated :)

[Theres]

i don't focus much on Rhea per se, but i do honor Kybele as part of my worship of Hekate. in fact i think Kybele may be the access point to many of Hekate's mysteries.

[Agaliha]

Interesting! I didn't know there was a connection between the two.

[Theres]

there is actually quite a connection between the two, although it may be a bit tenuous in spots.

this image is from a temple frieze at Pergamon, which shows Kybele (enthroned) being attended by Hekate...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5c/Pergamonmuseum_-_Antikensammlung_-_Relief_23.JPG/180px-Pergamonmuseum_-_Antikensammlung_-_Relief_23.JPG

in fact have a copy of this frieze on my altar.

Kybele presents some of the most compelling evidence of Hekate's Asian origins, imo.
stories of Hekate's eunuch priesthood (the Semnatatoi) give a good clue, as this practice was virtually unknown in Greece but was not at all uncommon in Asia Minor, and in fact there is evidence that Kybele was served by such a priesthood.
also, the Corybantic rites (common to Kybele) were practiced on the island of Samothrace, where there existed a known sanctuary to Hekate (at Zerynthos).

Kybele as 'Great Mother' shares a number of attributes with Artemis, particularly the Asian version of Artemis (the so-called "Ephesian Artemis"), such as 'Master of Beasts' (Kybele is often depicted attended by lions).
and it is common knowledge that Artemis and Hekate are very closely connected, even being entirely conflated in some stories.
this might also explain some of Hesiod's attributions to Hekate, such as Her fertility aspects. many of his attributions show up nowhere else, but if we remember that Hesiod's family was originally from Asia Minor then some of this might make more sense IF Hekate was in fact from that area, as i believe She was.

so if all this evidence is true, then it becomes easy to see how Hekate would emerge onto the scene in Greece as a Titan.
Her connection to Kybele would be translated to Rhea in Greece, and Her foriegn and ancient (even at that time) presence could be explained quite neatly in this way.


but all of this is just my opinion, so... ???

[Zephyrstorm]

From my own research into Hekate and Cybele - I'd say that your theory is a good one, Theres.

I know that my relations with one has lead towards the other.
I've just ordered another book on Cybele, though, and it may give me some different insight.

[David19]

From my own research into Hekate and Cybele - I'd say that your theory is a good one, Theres.

I know that my relations with one has lead towards the other.
I've just ordered another book on Cybele, though, and it may give me some different insight.

If you don't mind me asking, what's the name of the book?.

[Theres]

If you don't mind me asking, what's the name of the book?.
yeah, i'm curious too.

[Zephyrstorm]

La Mere des Dieux: De Cybele a la Vierge Marie by Phillippe Bourgeaud - Publisher: The Johns Hopkins University Press (October 6, 2004)
ISBN-10: 080187985X
ISBN-13: 978-0801879852

If it will ever get here that is... *impatient*

[Theres]

that looks interesting...
http://www.amazon.com/Mother-Gods-Cybele-Virgin-Mary/dp/080187985X

the companion book looks pretty good too...
http://www.amazon.com/Search-God-Mother-Anatolian-Cybele/dp/0520210247/ref=pd_bxgy_b_text_b/104-4781913-8764721

and both are well reviewed.

[Agaliha]

there is actually quite a connection between the two, although it may be a bit tenuous in spots.

this image is from a temple frieze at Pergamon, which shows Kybele (enthroned) being attended by Hekate...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5c/Pergamonmuseum_-_Antikensammlung_-_Relief_23.JPG/180px-Pergamonmuseum_-_Antikensammlung_-_Relief_23.JPG

in fact have a copy of this frieze on my altar.

Kybele presents some of the most compelling evidence of Hekate's Asian origins, imo.
stories of Hekate's eunuch priesthood (the Semnatatoi) give a good clue, as this practice was virtually unknown in Greece but was not at all uncommon in Asia Minor, and in fact there is evidence that Kybele was served by such a priesthood.
also, the Corybantic rites (common to Kybele) were practiced on the island of Samothrace, where there existed a known sanctuary to Hekate (at Zerynthos).

Kybele as 'Great Mother' shares a number of attributes with Artemis, particularly the Asian version of Artemis (the so-called "Ephesian Artemis"), such as 'Master of Beasts' (Kybele is often depicted attended by lions).
and it is common knowledge that Artemis and Hekate are very closely connected, even being entirely conflated in some stories.
this might also explain some of Hesiod's attributions to Hekate, such as Her fertility aspects. many of his attributions show up nowhere else, but if we remember that Hesiod's family was originally from Asia Minor then some of this might make more sense IF Hekate was in fact from that area, as i believe She was.

so if all this evidence is true, then it becomes easy to see how Hekate would emerge onto the scene in Greece as a Titan.
Her connection to Kybele would be translated to Rhea in Greece, and Her foriegn and ancient (even at that time) presence could be explained quite neatly in this way.

but all of this is just my opinion, so... ???

That's really interesting, thanks for sharing! If you remember from that other thread, I got some nudge (in general) from Hekate (and other Hellenic deities) so I've been learning about her (there's so much to learn). Though it may be your opinion, it does make sense! Slightly OT, but what do you think about the Hekate and Heket connection?

Oh and I found the plaque you were talking about on SacredSource:
Cybele Hecate plaque 9" (http://www.sacredsource.com/prodinfo.asp?number=CHP)

The summary there says:

Cybele and Hecate were leading deities of mystery cults and considered powerful in divination especially for those at a cross roads or starting a journey or giving birth.

Amazon women worshipped Artemis, Cybele and Hecate as Maiden Mother and Crone, and Thracian Bendis was closely allied to Cybele and Hecate. Diodorus says that the Amazons offered sacrifice to Cybele, Hecate and Tauric Artemis and served as votaries.

The cult of Cybele idolized an earth-goddess of fertility in human, beast, and field. Her worship was accompanied by the sound of crashing drums and cymbals, the music of the pipe, and the voices of frenzied votaries. Her inspiration came as a form of holy madness, which endowed the worshiper with a sense of mystic ecstasy and supernatural strength.

Cybele's name may have a connection with stone cubes (Kybos means dice). The sacred image of her brought to Rome in 204 C.E. by order of the Cumaean Sybil was a black meteorite. Sybil means "cave-dweller" and is a Latin form of Cybele. The Sybils of Cumae lived in a sacred cavern dedicated to Triple Hecate which was classically believed to be the entrance to the underworld.

The worship of the Great Goddess seems to have been common in Asia Minor and the islands of the eastern Aegean has been documented going back to the Bronze Age goddess of the city Karchemish on the Euphrates river in south central Asia Minor.

[Zephyrstorm]

that looks interesting...
http://www.amazon.com/Mother-Gods-Cybele-Virgin-Mary/dp/080187985X

the companion book looks pretty good too...
http://www.amazon.com/Search-God-Mother-Anatolian-Cybele/dp/0520210247/ref=pd_bxgy_b_text_b/104-4781913-8764721

and both are well reviewed.


The Bryn Mawr Classical Review says its a mixed bag, but it should still serve as a new resource for information. http://omega.cohums.ohio-state.edu/mailing_lists/BMCR-L/2005/0215.php

[Theres]

That's really interesting, thanks for sharing! If you remember from that other thread, I got some nudge (in general) from Hekate (and other Hellenic deities) so I've been learning about her (there's so much to learn). Though it may be your opinion, it does make sense! Slightly OT, but what do you think about the Hekate and Heket connection?
yeah, this is quick becoming another Hekate thread!

i do remember that discussion, and i've been curious as to how that is going for you. remember, if you need any help... ;)
in fact i just got through reading a fascinating article about Her from an Australian bible scholar (of all things!), it is a bit long but very well researched...
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0LAL/is_4_33/ai_111734474/pg_1[/URL]

yanno, that connection between Hekate and Heq/Hekit/Heket is one that has bothered me for quite some time. i don't like it, it just doesn't seem to work for me for some reason.
and yet try as i might (and i have tried!) i haven't been able to entirely debunk it historically. but conversely i haven't found any reliable attribution that verifies it either, so for now i'm just leaving it on the back-burner and scowling at it everytime i walk by the stove.

Oh and I found the plaque you were talking about on SacredSource:
Cybele Hecate plaque 9" (http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0LAL/is_4_33/ai_111734474/pg_7)
yep, that's the one. i got it for my birthday a year or two ago. it's pretty cool, but the finish is kinda chrome-like. i think i'd like it better if it look more like stone, but that's okay.

The Bryn Mawr Classical Review says its a mixed bag, but it should still serve as a new resource for information. [URL]http://omega.cohums.ohio-state.edu/m.../2005/0215.php
ahh, well then...
i should've checked there first, as i've found BMCR to be very reliable in the past.
thanks for the heads-up. $50 is a lot of money for a "mixed bag" (so is $30 used!).

[Zephyrstorm]

yeah, this is quick becoming another Hekate thread!

i do remember that discussion, and i've been curious as to how that is going for you. remember, if you need any help... ;)
in fact i just got through reading a fascinating article about Her from an Australian bible scholar (of all things!), it is a bit long but very well researched...
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0LAL/is_4_33/ai_111734474/pg_1

yanno, that connection between Hekate and Heq/Hekit/Heket is one that has bothered me for quite some time. i don't like it, it just doesn't seem to work for me for some reason.
and yet try as i might (and i have tried!) i haven't been able to entirely debunk it historically. but conversely i haven't found any reliable attribution that verifies it either, so for now i'm just leaving it on the back-burner and scowling at it everytime i walk by the stove.


yep, that's the one. i got it for my birthday a year or two ago. it's pretty cool, but the finish is kinda chrome-like. i think i'd like it better if it look more like stone, but that's okay.


ahh, well then...
i should've checked there first, as i've found BMCR to be very reliable in the past.
thanks for the heads-up. $50 is a lot of money for a "mixed bag" (so is $30 used!).

I really want that plaque too - :) I think I'll be painting over mine once I get it though.

I just use amazon to look at books closer, and then find the best deal via other sites where the bookstores charge fairer prices - _whistle_
I prefer abebooks.com - my copy of Mother of the Gods cost me about $20 all told, even with ordering from France.
But on the other hand, even there, the cheapest used copy I can get of Kerenyi's Dionysos is only $5 cheaper than a new copy on amazon right now.

Z

[Agaliha]

yeah, this is quick becoming another Hekate thread!

:2G: _whistle_

i do remember that discussion, and i've been curious as to how that is going for you. remember, if you need any help... ;)
Thanks for the offer :)
She seems to be in the distance, not as in my face as Zeus and Hermes seem to be. I had a few dreams with her in them, though. For the most part they're sketchy. In one I thought upon waking that Hermes was flying me to her cave, but I don't know. I've just been reading up about her, researching, learning. Not jumping the gun and all that. It's sort of overwhelming, so much to read and all the while practicing! I don't want to ignore her or any of them, but I don't know how to do it all--especially now!


in fact i just got through reading a fascinating article about Her from an Australian bible scholar (of all things!), it is a bit long but very well researched...
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0LAL/is_4_33/ai_111734474/pg_1

I'll have to read that :)

I found this site about a sactuary for Hekate in Turkey:
Lagina is an ancient cult site of important archaeological and touristic value dating from the Carian period and extended under the Seleucid kings that is situated in southwestern Turkey (adjacent to Turgut, a municipality in the Muğla Province) and which is famous for its Hekate Sanctuary. The site is situated at 9 kilometers distance from the Yatağan-Milas highway, served by an asphalt road bifurcating shortly after the Yatağan Power Plant when coming from Yatağan
(more) (http://www.lagina.org/laginaeng.htm)


Pic:
http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/2899/rsz293du4.jpg

Matches the Kybele association as Kybele was from Anatolia.
http://www.lagina.org/dvdeng.htm
http://www.fotografcilar.com/classic/Lagina/
http://www.aydingun.com/stockphoto/Kentler/lagina.htm

(You probably already know about this!)

And I can't read Turkish so I don't know what some other sites said.
I wonder how close this temple was to those of Kybele?
According to my guess using Google Map and the name of Lagina's modern name it seems to be in the Phrygia area.

yanno, that connection between Hekate and Heq/Hekit/Heket is one that has bothered me for quite some time. i don't like it, it just doesn't seem to work for me for some reason.and yet try as i might (and i have tried!) i haven't been able to entirely debunk it historically. but conversely i haven't found any reliable attribution that verifies it either, so for now i'm just leaving it on the back-burner and scowling at it everytime i walk by the stove.

Interesting. It just might be one of those thing that can't even be totally confirmed or denied (historically).