Eclectic Reconstruction

[Twinkle]

I was talking to Juliaki ( a member here) and this term came up. As I was thinking about it further....I thought this would be an interesting thing to talk about within the Reconstructionist community. I have seen this practice cropping up from time to time in recent months, either with individuals or as part of a specific group. I have had no name for it, so I created one.
Eclectic Reconstructionism
not a formal reconstruction, but a system of philosophy or religion that culls from a variety of systems and reconstructionist (http://paganpedia.mind-n-magick.com/wiki/index.php?title=Polytheistic_Reconstructionism) religions, encompassing an assortment of historical periods and cultural styles, using a reconstructionist (http://paganpedia.mind-n-magick.com/wiki/index.php?title=Polytheistic_Reconstructionism) methodology, with an emphasis on scholarly research and the accurate reenactment of specific rituals and customs.Boy, that is a mouthful!!

I have seen this phenomenon take two forms:
Multi-religious - The observance by an individual or group to two or more reconstructionist (http://paganpedia.mind-n-magick.com/wiki/index.php?title=Polytheistic_Reconstructionism) religions, making use of paradigm shifting. This method does not attempt to combine the individual religions, and each remains distinct.

New system - In the spirit of the School of Ammonius Saccas, and other Alexandrian philosophers, a group eclectically blends aspects of different systems of philosophy and/or reconstructionist (http://paganpedia.mind-n-magick.com/wiki/index.php?title=Polytheistic_Reconstructionism) religion, thus creating a completely new religion or system.It is a very interesting trend with two very distinct styles. The multi-religious seem to have a great attention to detail, and are very careful not to mix each of the reconstructionist (http://paganpedia.mind-n-magick.com/wiki/index.php?title=Polytheistic_Reconstructionism) religions or cross cultures. Those creating a new system (while using a reconstructionist (http://paganpedia.mind-n-magick.com/wiki/index.php?title=Polytheistic_Reconstructionism) methodology, and many times attempting to stay within a culturally specific style for each deity) approach their practice as a single integrated religion, with a heavy use of and reliance on Unverified Personal/Group Gnosis to create a uniform theology.

This is a very new trend, or (at the very least) one that only recently started to get some traction. It will be interesting to see what some of these groups will look like 5 and 10 years down the road.

[Theres]

Eclectic Reconstructionism
... using a reconstructionist (http://paganpedia.mind-n-magick.com/wiki/index.php?title=Polytheistic_Reconstructionism) methodology, with an emphasis on scholarly research...
this part would describe me about as accurately as anything, i guess.

... and the accurate reenactment of specific rituals and customs.
this part less so.

i've always had the same bias against self-proclaimed 'eclectics' as i have seen show up recently in the multiple threads on the topic that are current around here. however i have never really been able to lay claim to the title 'recon' either.

i study endlessly, not just the part of my path that touches on the pantheon i'm involved with, but everything that is in any way related so that i might understand the mindset of the ancients who worshipped this way... the causes rather than just the symptoms, as it were.
however once i'm armed with all this information i apply it to my worship as i see fit and proper.

this is definitely not the "one from column A, one from column B" smorgasbord spirituaity of the 'neo-eclectic every-nothing', but i am certainly not reconstructing anything either. it is rather a common sense application of all the well-studied principles that have fallen my way during the journey. i do try to keep within traditional guidelines, but this is more out of respect and a sense of continuity than any desire to "accurately reenact specific rituals and customs".

so while i do agree that most people who claim the title 'eclectic' belong in the lazy, 'give it all to me in one easy to read book' category, i have to reiterate that this is not by definition. it's just that the true nature of eclecticism makes it an easy genre in which to fake it.
but then by the strictest definition i myself am an eclectic, so whatcha gonna do?

[Twinkle]

So, basically, you are a Hellenist that uses Reconstructionist methodology, but incorporates the information culled from scholarly research into your own personal practice.

In essence, although you're not "reconstructing" anything...your methodology would still make you a Reconstructionist, while your practice would be more eclectic.

The term Eclectic Reconstructionist....if we left off the part about re-enacting ritual and practice...would most accurately define who you are and what you do.

Would this be a correct statement?

If so, we could possibly add a third subset to the term that I have here.

Multi religious - Solitary and/or Group Practice

New System - Group Practice

Personal Practice

[Theres]

So, basically, you are a Hellenist that uses Reconstructionist methodology, but incorporates the information culled from scholarly research into your own personal practice.
'Hellenic Polytheist' has always worked well for me, but yeah, that's pretty good i guess.

In essence, although you're not "reconstructing" anything...your methodology would still make you a Reconstructionist, while your practice would be more eclectic.
we're on firm ground here too, i think.

The term Eclectic Reconstructionist....if we left off the part about re-enacting ritual and practice...would most accurately define who you are and what you do.

Would this be a correct statement?
perhaps, but you'd also have to leave out the...

"but a system of philosophy or religion that culls from a variety of systems and reconstructionist (http://paganpedia.mind-n-magick.com/wiki/index.php?title=Polytheistic_Reconstructionism) religions, encompassing an assortment of historical periods and cultural styles".

... my cultural, historical and spiritual allegiances are pretty solidly and almost exclusively Hellenic.

[Twinkle]

You're right Theres...Hellenic Polytheist pretty much covers it.

I just hate to see you get lumped in with the "I'll make it up as I go along" crowd.

It seems that something should designate people like you from the intellectually lazy.

But maybe that's just me.

[Theres]

You're right Theres...Hellenic Polytheist pretty much covers it.

I just hate to see you get lumped in with the "I'll make it up as I go along" crowd.

It seems that something should designate people like you from the intellectually lazy.

But maybe that's just me.
i don't usually find myself in any danger of being lumped in with that crowd (lol!).

i've spent 52 years falling between the cracks, so i'm quite used to it. but i guess 'a label to call my very own' would be nice. :sniffsnif


:lol:

[Juniper138]

I am a Celtic Recon, and a Hedgewitch (http://www.walkingthehedge.org/Hedgewitch.htm). One Recon, the other Eclectic.
Since a Hedgewitch is a kind of "outsider" path, I find I can follow Celtic Recon as an outsider (which is a legitimate part of Celtic Recon) (http://www.paganachd.com/faq/theology.html#outsiders) as a Hedgewitch.
It works for me, though I do get some raised eyebrows.

[S_Wodening]

I am not sure that Eclectic Reconstructionism is possible as it is a bit of an oxymoron. Part of being a reconstructionist is trying to reconstruct all of a religious system. If one is drawing from more than one religion this is not possible. For example someone drawing on Celtic and Norse religions using reconstructionist methods would still not be a reconstructionist because at some point they are going to have to compromise one or both religion's belief systems.

[Twinkle]

I am not sure that Eclectic Reconstructionism is possible as it is a bit of an oxymoron. Part of being a reconstructionist is trying to reconstruct all of a religious system. If one is drawing from more than one religion this is not possible. For example someone drawing on Celtic and Norse religions using reconstructionist methods would still not be a reconstructionist because at some point they are going to have to compromise one or both religion's belief systems.

Well...if you look at the Multi Religious definition you'll see it can be done...and is being done.

I know a man who worships deities from the Norse, Chinese and Greek Pantheons. Now...he has reconstructed the religious systems of all three...using a Reconstructionist methodology....in his worship, he shifts he practice and his paradigm to correspond with each culture and deity.

He is , in fact, an Eclectic Reconstructionist.

[juliaki]

Not much to add to this tonight, as I'm under a deadline or three, but I'm very interested to see where this topic goes. Thank ye kindly!!! :)

[Fire-scryer]

Well...if you look at the Multi Religious definition you'll see it can be done...and is being done.

I know a man who worships deities from the Norse, Chinese and Greek Pantheons. Now...he has reconstructed the religious systems of all three...using a Reconstructionist methodology....in his worship, he shifts he practice and his paradigm to correspond with each culture and deity.

He is , in fact, an Eclectic Reconstructionist.

It is my impression that as a recontructionist, you are reconstructing all of a religious system. From worshiping to way of life. Not only do we worship the way our ancestors did, we live by the same code as they did as well. Acknowledging the fact that times change and we cannot live exactly like they did we adapt within societies standards.

That said, I cannot see how someone could live a Norse lifestyle 100% which to me would be called for if you are truly reconstructing the Norse religion, and then when you need something different you stop following that lifestyle and move over to the Celtic lifestyle. Which, imo, would be the only way to pull this off.

I am not going to tell someone how they sh0uld believe and whether what they believe is right or wrong. That is not my place. But in the spirit of a true reconstructionist religion I just don't see how this type of ecclectisism could work.

As far as studying the other religions and learning as much as they can about the people, their way of life, and their religious practices, I think that makes for one very good Eclectic person. I believe that if someone chooses to incorporate different pantheons into their religion they should do all the legwork involved in learning about those deities so they can show them the proper respect. But I don't think that makes them a reconstructionist, it just makes them Eclectic.

Just my .02

Frith,
Fire

[Twinkle]

While I would agree with you that ethics are also part of a recon paths...they still are orthopraxies...it's not so much what you believe as what you do.

Even in Greece, how the Ancients viewed the Gods, and personal theologies differed. Practice was still the same.

I can see how this form of Eclecticism would work....personal theology may differ, but practice and methodology would be Reconstructionist.

[Hærfest Leah]

I am not sure that Eclectic Reconstructionism is possible as it is a bit of an oxymoron. Part of being a reconstructionist is trying to reconstruct all of a religious system. If one is drawing from more than one religion this is not possible. For example someone drawing on Celtic and Norse religions using reconstructionist methods would still not be a reconstructionist because at some point they are going to have to compromise one or both religion's belief systems.

I was just coming to say the same thing. Eclecticism to a point is just being as some would say, a regualr pagan and not a reconstructionist at all.

Good point Swain on the Celto-Germanic combo.

[S_Wodening]

Well...if you look at the Multi Religious definition you'll see it can be done...and is being done.

I know a man who worships deities from the Norse, Chinese and Greek Pantheons. Now...he has reconstructed the religious systems of all three...using a Reconstructionist methodology....in his worship, he shifts he practice and his paradigm to correspond with each culture and deity.

He is , in fact, an Eclectic Reconstructionist.

I would disagree. I think in order to have an accurate reconstruction you must concentrate on one religion. Ancient pagan religions did not separate religion from culture. When reconstructing an ancient religion you must also reconstruct much of the cultural context. This means going as far as being language sepecific because words contain many of the philiosophical and religious aspects of a culture. When you blend ancient religions, you lose this. Now that is not saying you cannot use reconstrucionist methods. It is to say whatever you come up with is not a reconstructionist religion.

[Twinkle]

Exactly...if you look at the defintion...it's Eclectic Reconstruction, not formal reconstruction.

[Twinkle]

I' appreciate the input. Since the opinion seems to be that Eclecticism and Reconstructionism cannot be put into one definition.....

What would you think of a religion that is Pan Hellenic...Reconstructing Hellenismos throughout Ancient Greece into Egypt.

If gnosis told a Reconstructionist that Zeus was Ammon....and depending on that gnosis they would worship in the Greek or Kemetic fashion.(depending on gnosis)..having statues of both the Greek God and the Kemetic God on their altar....

If there was evidence (a shard of pottery) that there was a temple to Zeus-Ammon in Egypt....

Is that Syncretism...and still Hellenismos....or is it crossing pantheons and Eclecticism?

The definition I have posted here would put it under Eclectic Reconstruction...but since it doesn't seem to be well received....what would this practice be called to y'all?

[Hærfest Leah]

The definition I have posted here would put it under Eclectic Reconstruction...but since it doesn't seem to be well received....what would this practice be called to y'all?

It would be your average Pagan Ecclecticism only slightly more structured I guess.

[Twinkle]

I should let you know that I didn't come up with these definitions, my best friend Tim did.

He's quite busy...and asked me to post it. I realized afterward that I didn't link....so here's the link.

http://www.mind-n-magick.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1192894294/16#16

[Malcolm]

New system - In the spirit of the School of Ammonius Saccas, and other Alexandrian philosophers, a group eclectically blends aspects of different systems of philosophy and/or reconstructionist religion, thus creating a completely new religion or system.

Sounds like chaotes to me.



paradigm pirates ftw imho....

[Theres]

Sounds like chaotes to me.
chaotic reconstructionists, now there's an interesting concept!

paradigm pirates ftw imho....
"paradigm pirates"... yeah, i'll be borrowing that one.

[Rick]

"Eclectic Reconstruction"


...


I can't even wrap my mind around it...


...and I'll be borrowing "paradigm pirates" as well...


"Arrrrr! I be piratin' yer paradigm, matey!"