Need advice from anyone who has gone through something similar

[Athena-Nadine]

I'm sooo tired. I dont' know what to do. This is a completely new issue for me. Robert never went through this.

Beastfeeding is going just fine. Alesa latches on well and she's obviously is getting plenty to eat since she's gained about 2 pounds in 2 weeks. But she only really wants to eat AT NIGHT! I try and try to get her to eat during the day but she just latches on for a second and loses interest or goes back to sleep and won't eat. Then 10:30 PM comes around and she spends the whole rest of the night wanting to eat every 1 1/2 - 3 hours, depending on her mood. Also, once she finishes eating it usually takes her over an hour to go back to sleep and then she wakes up an hour or two later so I am up almost all night. Napping during the day when she does is out of the question with Robert running around all day. I try to keep her awake during the day but it's so hard to focus enough exclusive attention on her when Robert is always needing me.

My little girl is reverse cycling and I don't know how to fix it. I offer her the breast every 1 1/2-2 hours during the day, but she doesn't want it (and no, formula is not an option for me). Ugh. I don't know how much longer I can go on with only 2-3 hours of sleep a night.

[Morr]

To reverse Scarlet's cycles, I just let her nap and spend the entire day downstairs with me. It was bright, it was noisy (TV, cats, phone, me, her dad, etc). Then at night, I took her upstairs to her room, feedings was done only there, quietly, lights were dim and she slept in her crib.

I started doing this while nursing, by the way.

A few days of having her downstairs and doing everything with her down there, including feeding, talking to her and just letting her hang out on her swing or bouncer -- asleep or awake -- kinda showed her that this is daytime, everything is going on then... Then at night, she is upstairs, she is laying in her crib to sleep, everything is dark and she eats up their too in the dark (well, dimmed lighting) as well, and everything is quiet.

How about pumping? Maybe pump a bottle or two in the evening to have them ready for the night so your hubby can take up a few of the feedings?

I know formula is not an option, but if all else fails, for your own sanity -- Maybe supplament formula at night? Your hubby can help and it might get her to sleep an extra hour.

Believe me, that extra hour helps. Instead of every 2 hours, Scarlet now wakes up to eat every 4 hours. It was a gradual process, but now she is sleeping 4-4.5 hours at night, wakes up to eat, and goes back to sleep for a good 2-3 hours till she waks up for the day.

Can't give you any advice in regards to Robert though, other than maybe look for a nice daycare in the area that will take him for 3-4 hours in the morning and not the entire day so you can catch up on sleep?

Good luck!

[Athena-Nadine]

Thanks. :) I already do all of that during the day and at night so she learns the difference. I've been doing that since she was born because she was very sleepy for the first few days and had to be woken and enticed to eat. Because she wasn't brought to me until more than 2 hours after her birth, she didn't seem to know what she was supposed to do when she was offered the breast at first. I had to manually express milk into her mouth so she would realize there was food there and she was supposed to eat. After the first two days of that she's been fine. Her latch has been good for 2 weeks now--much earlier than Robert but that's probably because I already knew how to fix it this time around--and her appetite has been good. Her days and nights stopped being backwards over a week ago; she has plenty of awake times during the day. But a few days ago she stopped wanting to eat but sporadically during the day and started wanting to eat through the night instead.

Mark already gives her a bottle of pumped breastmilk every night in an effort for me to get some more rest. Unfortunately, she often takes over an hour to go back to sleep whether she drinks it from a bottle or nurses, and since he has to work the next day I always feel bad and end up getting up to take care of her anyway.

My reasons for formula not being an option for us aren't due to hating it or anything. There are A LOT of severe food allergies in my family, along with eczema and asthma, and Alessa is at really high risk for them. Robert had milk protein sensitivities as an infant and couldn't have soy either. The children in my family (including me) historically react very badly to infant formulas.

I can't bring myself to give her formula that may just end up making her feel horrible and may only end up exacerbating the issue. I'm too afraid of the possible allergic reactions she may have. As it is, I avoid all of the foods she may have an issue with right now. I won't be introducing them back into my diet until she's at least 6 months old and then really slowly and carefully. Plus, it's just too expensive right now.

[RainInanna]

I don't have advice but just wanted to offer you support. I'm sorry you are going through this. It must be really tough keeping up with two especially with lack of sleep. I can't function without sleep so I don't know how you manage. Are there any relatives or friends that can help with Robert once in awhile? Can Mark help as soon as he gets home from work so you can grab a nap in the evening? Can he take a "night shift" in the evening/night, and then you take a "midnight on" shift so you can grab some sleep?

I can understand not wanting to put Mark out, but for me, it was necessary to let my husband take some of the slack. He does ok with less sleep too, and he likes staying up late, so I let him take the first shift while I slept, then I get up in the morning hours. He loves it because he gets to sleep in on his days off almost always (he does let me get a sleep in once in awhile, especially lately when I was up sick), and hates getting up early, so he doesn't mind taking the monitor downstairs with him while he works on the computer at night.

As much as I didn't want to put him out I realized it was best for my sanity and eventually his and the baby's too. I just couldn't be a good mama without sleep. I hope you can get more help.

[Athena-Nadine]

No, it's just us. We have no family here and no one around who can help. We also can't afford to hire anyone or pay for daycare right now, and even if we could, there is a 6-12 month waiting list for daycare. Ridiculousness.

I know you're right. :) And we have talked about it and he's been great and agrees with you. He told me to go sleep in the guest room down the hall for 5 or 6 hours and let him take over feeding her here and there. But, you know, it's just not physically possible for me to sleep if I hear either of my children fussing. Mark can sleep through it for a while, but I seem physiologically unable to. The tiniest sound from either of them in the right tone will cause me to be wide awake like I was never asleep. We have 2 extra bedrooms that are guest rooms right now, but there is nowhere in the house that I can't hear them. So I end up telling Mark to go back to sleep and taking over the care of Alessa because I figure there's really no point in both of us being awake. I've never been able to train myself to sleep through it even when I know that Mark is taking care of everything. I really wish I could sometimes.

All I need is to figure out how to get her back to eating most of her meals during the day instead of at night. I'm starting to wonder if this isn't happening because she can only have me to herself at night when Robert goes to bed. During the day, I have to split my time and attention between them.

[Morr]

Hmmm..

I'd talk to her doctor.

How about mixing your milk with a bit of formula? Maybe that transition will ease her body into accepting a bit of formula supplaments at night?

Is there any way they can test her for allergies?

These days a lot of times hubby puts Scarlet to sleep so I can get a head start on my sleep, since I get up at nigh to feed her. He also gets to sleep in on weekends while I get up with Scarlet (anywhere between 6-7am). I let him (yes, LET him LOL) sleep in on weekends and at night since he works full time. But if I am tired before her bedtime he alwaystells me to just go to sleep and he takes care of her and puts her to sleep.

Try to figure out a system with your hubby. Even if it means you go to sleep when he comes home, and he feeds her the bottle till you get up, that way you get a few hours of sleep before the "night shift" starts for you with Alessa.

Maybe you can get the Fisher Price "baby tv" we got for Scarlet. I forget the official product name, but it hangs on the inside of the crib, its a tropical rainforest scene, with a monkey, frog and fish. They move (peekaboo type movement), it lights up, makes soothing music and soothing rainforest and waterfall sounds. It calms Scarlet down immediately, and the music and sounds and movements helps her doze off to sleep. You can decide if you want lights or not, sounds or not, music or not, just sounds, just lights, just music, etc. So maybe that can help her fall asleep?

We use it when Scarlet cant sleep (during the day or night) and is fussy because of it. It helps a lot. Then again she is much older than Alessa (two months isn't a huge difference but at this age, it IS, ya know?), so maybe it wont work, but its worth a try!

*hugs*

[Morr]

Ok I saw your response to not being able to sleep when you hear your kids fussying up.

That happened to me in the beginning with Scarlet... At one point, I was just too tired (even after the switch to formula), that now I just sleep through it when he puts her to sleep (if she fusses up).

Mommy needs her sleep too.

Just try to take care of yourself! And seriously talk to the doctor. Maybe they'll have an interesting trick. I am sure you're not the first mom going through this.

Good luck!

[RainInanna]

Earplugs = lifesafers. Seriously, it went against every fibre of my mommyhood, but I had to do it for our family's best interest.

Not sure if you've tried this stuff already, so thought I'd mention, the nurses told me to undress the baby a little, put him down rather than keep him cuddled, and/or use a washcloth to gently wake him. At night I used a wipes warmer (some say it's overrated, but it sure as heck made night-time changings so much smoother and sleepier - otherwise I had to stick a cool wipe on his bum at 3am and hope he'd go back to sleep???), rocking chair, stayed in his room, no talking, in the dark, and kept him swaddled, shushed, etc. (the Happiest Baby on the Block was a book that saved my life with the 5 s's of getting and keeping baby asleep). You know, they tell you not to do all that stuff to keep them asleep because they'll require it, but when I was sleep deprived I figured I needed to survive the early few weeks first. At least when I got some sleep and my brain could work again, and he was a little older, I could wean him back off that stuff.

They aren't kidding when they say the first couple months you're in survival mode :lol:

[Ravenna Angellin]

First off, :hugz: :hugz: :hugz:

Second, been there myself. But I guess I was lucky, because my family all lives close by, and after Finn was born, I had my mom to help me out with the boys.

I feel you on the allergies thing too. Most of my family is lactose intolerant, though by some stroke of luck, me and the boys don't have that problem.

My only advice is that you should try to stomp down on your instincts to be the sole care provider at night time, and let Papa take over from time to time... even if Miss Alessa takes FOREVER to get back to sleep. It's hard to let someone else take over, even though we know that others are capable of taking care of things whilst you get some much needed rest. But trust me, if you can learn to delegate and let Papa suffer from mild sleep deprivation, too (lol) you will be much saner and a much happier Mama for both Robert and Alessa. It was hard at first for me, too... but then again, the less sleep I get... the more of a raging evil beast I turn into... so it was a must. I learned, and now my boys benefit from a much happier me.

Hrm. Looks like after my third is born though, I may have to relearn my own advice, haha.

Good luck... it will get better!!

Blessings,
~ Ravenna

[Athena-Nadine]

Children can't be tested for allergies with any kind of accuracy until they're at least 2 years old. Until then, their immune systems aren't fully developed enough and give off too many false positives and negatives. Also, most people don't show any signs of an allergic reaction the first time, or even the first few times, they are exposed to an allergen. Most people develop hypersensitivity after being exposed a few times. Even mixing some with breast milk wouldn't help because the milk or soy proteins would still be there. My brother almost died at 6 months old, at 6 years old, and a few times as a teen because of food allergy reactions, one of them to milk. He developed asthma at only a few months old and his is the type that causes him to stop breathing when he has an attack. My asthma is thankfully more mild, and Robert has so far escaped without any signs of allergies at the moment, but I just can't in good conscience take the risk with Alessa. His food sensitivities went away as he got older and his digestive system matured, but there's nothing to say that Alessa would be that lucky and there are still foods that I won't dare feed to Robert even now, at 20 months old. So no milk or soy products until she is at least 6-8 months old, no solid foods at all until then either, no peanut products until she is at least 3, no eggs until at least 2, no shellfish until at least 3, and all of them need to be given to her when I can get to the ER very quickly if necessary. That also means that none of those things can be in my diet while she is nursing.

It's hard, but we all do what we need to, you know? :)

[Ravenna Angellin]

Children can't be tested for allergies with any kind of accuracy until they're at least 2 years old. Until then, their immune systems aren't fully developed enough and give off too many false positives and negatives. Also, most people don't show any signs of an allergic reaction the first time, or even the first few times, they are exposed to an allergen. Most people develop hypersensitivity after being exposed a few times. Even mixing some with breast milk wouldn't help because the milk or soy proteins would still be there. My brother almost died at 6 months old, at 6 years old, and a few times as a teen because of food allergy reactions, one of them to milk. He developed asthma at only a few months old and his is the type that causes him to stop breathing when he has an attack. My asthma is thankfully more mild, and Robert has so far escaped without any signs of allergies at the moment, but I just can't in good conscience take the risk with Alessa. His food sensitivities went away as he got older and his digestive system matured, but there's nothing to say that Alessa would be that lucky and there are still foods that I won't dare feed to Robert even now, at 20 months old. So no milk or soy products until she is at least 6-8 months old, no solid foods at all until then either, no peanut products until she is at least 3, no eggs until at least 2, no shellfish until at least 3, and all of them need to be given to her when I can get to the ER very quickly if necessary. That also means that none of those things can be in my diet while she is nursing.

It's hard, but we all do what we need to, you know? :)


Man, that's some scary stuff to deal with!!

I have a friend who is deadly allergic to peanuts... THAT can be freaky, too!! We went out for Thai once with him... and he forgot that even Phad Thai contains peanuts, and then couldn't figure out why his throat was swelling... whoo... the trip to the ER that day was one never to forget. Now when we get together I'm the first to ask 1). Where's the EPI pen? and 2) What's in that food there? Are you sure there are NO peanut or peanut by products in there? No possibility for cross-contamination?

It's dangerous and frightening to deal with some food allergies. At least you know the signs to watch for, and are aware of how to introduce those possible foods that Alessa and Robert could be allergic to. I applaud you there!!

I'm sure it will work out in your favor in time!!

Again, :hugz:

~ Ravenna

[Athena-Nadine]

They aren't kidding when they say the first couple months you're in survival mode :lol:

Gods, isn't that the truth! They also aren't kidding when they say that it's amazing how quickly you forget these times. And just like it happened with Robert, in only a few short months all of this will be nothing more than a hazy memory and I'll be complaining that she's getting too big too quickly and that I miss my tiny little baby. :lol:

All of that I already do except the wipes warmer and the earplugs. And I have earplugs! It just never occurred to me to use them. :lol: I never bothered with the wipes warmer because so many people always complained that they were nothing but a waste of money, but I do dread changing her diaper in the middle of the night. I try to do it only right before she's fed, but we all know that doesn't work. Babies have an uncanny knack of dirtying their diapers as soon as their bellies are full and they're almost completely asleep. ;) So think I'll go pick one up today and see if it helps.

[RainInanna]

I'll be complaining that she's getting too big too quickly and that I miss my tiny little baby.

Yeah, like me :lol: I was writing that thinking "man I miss those dark and silent moments when we were alone together, rocking away, just the moonlight and his warmth". Funny how the exhaustion and lack of brain are forgotten (I mean seriously, I was writing down routines to soothe the baby like "1. try feeding 2. try burping 3. try rocking" etc. because I couldn't think AT ALL and he was colicky).

I wish those tricks would still work to keep him asleep too :lol:

Everyone told me a wipes warmer was a waste of money but it really helped A LOT (I'm sure it was recommended by one of the books I read for helping them stay sleepy at night). My MIL thought I was crazy, but hey she poo-poo'ed our driving him around the first couple nights to get him to sleep too (of course, she wasn't there to hear a colicky baby scream until 4am either, or to magically have him sleep 6 hours once he fell asleep in the car). Where we were had poor insulation & old windows too, so I dreaded touching the cold wipes myself.

[RainInanna]

Oh, if you can borrow Happiest Baby on the Block you might find the techniques useful. At least I did. Thank god someone recommended it to me on a pregnancy forum I was on. It helped me survive those first couple weeks and months.

[Seren_]

This is pretty much what my two have done. Tom took a loooong time, in spite of all our best efforts, to switch his days and nights around but always fed more at night than during the day. Rosie wasn't so bad with her days and nights but has always fed more at night than during the day. She's also been more inclined to wake up at night for an hour or two before going back to sleep.

Some of the things I've noticed is that when they were both having a growth spurt, they would do the majority of feeds at night (every hour to two hours, with even more frequent cluster feeding in the evening sometimes). Rosie also seems to be much more inclined to have wakeful periods at night when she's having growth spurts, whereas Tom has always slept more during them. Once the growth spurts was over, their sleeping and feeding pattern would settle down again.

For the nightwaking with Rosie, the only way I've managed to deal with it is to cat nap through them. She seems quite happy to entertain herself for the most part, so I put her on the bed between me and my husband and try to zone out. So long as she's close to us, she's quite happy. It's something I've had to learn to do because I'm the same as you - I can't sleep if they're awake and fussy or noisy. Occasionally my husband will take her for a bit, and while I can't sleep, at least being able to rest a bit and have some time to myself is better than dealing with her. I try not to do it too often, for the sake of my husband (who has to work), but equally I've learnt my limits and know that I'm know good to anyone if I don't from time to time.

At around the same age as Alessa is now, we tried moving Rosie from her moses basket to the cot. She wasn't sleeping very well in it and we thought she might do better in something that wasn't so confining. The cot worked better but she's very nosey so I've added the bumpers limit her view of us - if she sees us she wants to play.

To encourage more feeds during the day I've also fed her covered with a blanket sometimes. Because she's so nosey, even before the four months mark, it's helped. I've also been more inclined to hold off feeding her as soon as she wakes at night in the hopes of pushing a feed back a little (ten minutes or so) to help gradually shift her feeding schedule, though admittedly I've only been doing that now I've started weaning her.

There is hope. If this is being caused by a growth spurt, it's only temporary and should be over soon (thankfully Rosie's growth spurts were always short, but Tom's were often long and exhausting). If it isn't a growth spurt then it's probably just a phase she's going through and it will end (at some point). Tom took a month-six weeks before he really settled down at night and even then he was wakeful in comparison to my nephew (who was bottle fed, to be fair). With both Tom and Rosie they seemed to have one last burst of unsettledness for a week or so before they suddenly and almost magically settled down, and it would happen each time they'd settle into a much more sociable schedule for me.

I also sympathise with you on the food issue. Both my kids had reflux and sensitivity to milk proteins and with Rosie I've only just been able to start having things like milk and yoghurt again (she's just coming up to seven months). I was stuck with a bland boring diet for sooooo long, and I still daren't try caffeine.

I hope you get some sleep soon!

[Cat]

A few thoughts, and since I don't know your child raising philosophy I'll just be general.

1) Get a white noise machine and plug it in when you sleep down the hall, and make sure your husband 's door is open and near Alessa.

2) Bring her into bed with you. You can feed her while you are half0asleep and then just fall right back into deeper sleep.

3) Perseverance. She'll get her days and nights sorted out, it just takes time. Have Dad take over during the day so you can nap. Of you can do what we did--split the night into shifts. One parent is up while the other sleeps, and the one who is up has the baby far enough from the sleeping one that the cries don't wake the other parent.

Good luck! I remember how much this sucks.

[Rhianna813]

[QUOTE=Morr;3306665]
Try to figure out a system with your hubby. Even if it means you go to sleep when he comes home, and he feeds her the bottle till you get up, that way you get a few hours of sleep before the "night shift" starts for you with Alessa.
QUOTE]

This is what we did. For the 3 months I was on maternity leave I swear I got no sleep. Brendan nursed non stop day and night and it seems that was the only way to keep my supply going. But I pumped too and DH would take over in the late evening. That was my nap time. This meant that sometimes DH would get to bed at 1 am but that is just how life is with a newborn. But it guarenteed he would not have to get up again and that I had some sleep so I could face the frequent night wakings a little better.

And to just give you a different perspective. When I returned to work, DH quit his job to become our stay at home Dad. However, I was still breastfeeding and I was still a MOM. So basically I worked full time and was still up at night sometimes and still not getting all my zzzzzzz's. I managed and so can any working Dad _whistle_

*hugs* Good luck!

[Ceres]

There really isnt an easy answer. Life with a newborn is tough and the second is in some ways harder than the first. With your first, its hard because its a lifestyle adjustment, but the second is tough because everything that worked with the first wont work this time because you have a toddler to take care of.

Take heart, we have all been there. You get through, things get better and it will all be a distant memory in justa few months. I never asked my husband to get up with our babies because he worked full time and overttime and it simply wouldnt be fair, I had the option of resting when the kids had down time or even just plugging in a video for the toddler while the infant sleptt and catching a break then!

On a general note.......I dont really think it fair to push the formula, anymore than it would be for a breastfeeding mother to suggest that a formula feeding mother's problems could be solved if she would only TRY breastfeeding. If a mother flat out says it isnt an option, for whatever reason, I think that should be respected.

[Athena-Nadine]

Thank you all so much for your advice and support through this. Alessa will be 4 weeks old tomorrow and went through a growth spurt a little over a week ago and I"m convinced she's going through another one. Also, her feeding pattern is markedly different than her brother's was, and I think I'm just starting to figure it out. She likes to nurse for a little while then pull off and fall asleep for 5-30 minutes then wakes up and wants to nurse again. After that second time, she's usually done for 2-3 hours. Except at night when she cluster feeds. Add this pattern to cluster feeding and it sometimes seems like I'm nursing her non-stop for a couple of hours.

Like I said, though, she is only 4 weeks old. She's still trying to figure all of this out just as I am. I know as she gets bigger and her stomach grows she will become more alert during the day and will have an easier time falling asleep again after eating at night. I also know that, like anything with small children, all of these things will happen on her schedule, not mine or anyone else's.

I'll be all right and we will all figure it out. :) Today and the past couple of days have been good, emotionally. But as she is only 4 weeks old, I am also only 4 weeks postpartum and I know I still have hormonal imbalances on top of exhaustion and that sometimes makes things look worse than they are and sometimes makes it difficult to be rational and see past the stressed out, tired moment. So I can't guarantee that there won't be anymore stressed, desperate-seeming posts made out of exhaustion. ;)

It's sometimes enough just to know that you're not the only one who has felt this way.

Thanks again, everyone. :hugz:

[Ceres]

It's sometimes enough just to know that you're not the only one who has felt this way.




Isnt that the truth? :)

There is nothing worse than feeling like you must be doing something wrong because no one else seems to have gone through what you are going through.

I remember my first LLL meeting when I admitted to the group all the problems I was having (baby not sleeping through, evening fussiness, pressure to start solids) and no one was shocked, everyone had stories about how they had dealt with the same issues and I was encouraged to to use from LLL what I found worked for me and leave whatever didnt.

What a difference from the attitude at my doctor's office where these things were all treated as problems that needed to be fixed! I really just needed to know it was okay and that it would get better, even if I didnt try to fix it.

[Athena-Nadine]

I really just needed to know it was okay and that it would get better, even if I didnt try to fix it.

That's exactly it. :D

Robert had his own issues, as they all do. He had reflux and food sensitivities and had the most horrible time sleeping until we figured out it causes him pain to lie down. He ended up sleeping in his swing right next to my bed until he was 4 months old and then he decided one day that he didn't want to sleep like that anymore, that he wanted to lie down. Then he coslept with us until he was a year old when he started having trouble sleeping in the bed with us so we tried putting him in his crib one night and he slept through the night and seemed happier for it.

And you know, almost all of it I had forgotten about by the time I got pregnant again when he was 11 months old. :lol: I think I really just needed the reminder that this all really doesn't last forever.

The hours drag so slowly but the days pass far too quickly. I swear that parents of infants/small children live in a different time zone than everyone else.

[Brigid Rowan]

I feel your sleepiness!! LOL....I recall mine loving night nursings, too...And about a month into having baby#1, I discovered co-sleeping, which really made feedings at night so much easier..

[RainInanna]

What a difference from the attitude at my doctor's office where these things were all treated as problems that needed to be fixed! I really just needed to know it was okay and that it would get better, even if I didnt try to fix it.

So true. I saw so many women who worried the baby wasn't getting enough milk and started supplementing, effectively lowering and even losing their supply, not knowing it could be a growth spurt, comfort nursing, or that they could try nursing more often, pumping, trying herbs, etc. Not knowing, as you say, that it was ok and would get better.

I know when I stopped BF'ing because of the yeast infection I wondered if mine wasn't getting enough, as he was nursing every hour during the day. Then when I gave him formula lo and behold he was still drinking very often. Even now he doesn't sit down and drink 6 or 8oz like other babies his age (8 months).