Which investigating style do you perfer?

[Agaliha]

So, figured I'd put the thread here and not in the Entertainment area even though it's referring to shows. Feel free to move it, though.

Personally, I don't like Most Haunted's style.
It never seems like a full investigation, there's no attempt to discern if something is ghostly or not--to step back and look at the situation. They take knocks and other random little things are proof as a haunting when they very well may have earthly sources. Also, it might be me, but I don't always trust the mediums-- I mean they could have done research before hand. Just saying.
Though Ghost Hunters isn't perfect, I prefer their style and attempt to debunk and step back from the situation. They also don't label everything as haunted and when in doubt they say it's not (or rather that it's not known at the time).

Also Ghost Hunters is going live October 31st 9 pm to 3 am.
http://www.scifi.com/ghosthunters/sanatorium/

I think it'll be better than Most Haunted's live event (I hope it is!). I saw part of it and I was pretty disappointed. So were many people, from what I read on their boards.

So, what's your opinion-- what style do you prefer (in a one or the other situation)?

[Tanya]

ummm "Scientific" didn't figure in at all?!!

well.... maybe that's why I don't bother own a TV....

[Agaliha]

ummm "Scientific" didn't figure in at all?!!
well.... maybe that's why I don't bother own a TV....

Well it's in regard to the shows (so it's from that angle), which reflect the styles of many people in real life. I was just curious, using the shows listed as a foundation, which people preferred.

But, yes, I'm with you on that--scientific and objective are good.

[Tanya]

don't take it personally, I'm just being a snarky bitch today...
:P

[morbid3500]

Id definitely call taps before the most haunted people. I cant even finish one of the most haunted shows actually. I just cant stand them. They seem so fake with everything. I love how ghost hunters analyzes everything and tries to debunk things.

[firefairy86]

I was just talking to my bf about this yesterday.

There was a marathon of Most Haunted on and I watched just a couple episodes. The investigators don't seem as professional as Ghost Hunters. They were just doing that nightcam angle and the girls were freaking out; nothing really that fascinating.

The Ghost Hunters at least set up equipment. Sometimes they say a place is haunted and other times they don't find any evidence. Though it can be totally fake, I tend to believe them over Most Haunted.

[Artiste-LiLi]

I enjoy watching both and prefer neither technique really......Most Haunted just accepts anything and everything as evidence of haunting and Ghost Hunters accepts virtually nothing as proof. (being married to a clairvoyant and having done several investigations with him and othere makes one a bit "jaded". lol) I remember one episode of GH where a chair slid quite some distance by itself and they basically dismissed it.

As for the psychics of Most Haunted: David Wells is a WONDERFUL person and a very ACCURATE reader (I've met him and attended a seminar of his), so I tend to listen closely to what David says. Derrik Accorah (sp)...not so much. I think Ian (for the life of me I can't recall his last name but he is Scottish) may well be a good reader and he seems to be fairly accurate, but I don't know much about him other than what I've seen on the show. And Yvette just pisses me off.

As for investigation techniques: I prefer a "blended approach"....scientific, metaphysical, spiritual and psychic; giving each aspect a long hard critical eye. I am a very analytical person and "concrete thinker" by nature, so it really takes something special to make me say "Wow! That was real and amazing". I've seen some pretty amazing things!

[Lady_Door]

I prefer Ghost Hunters mainly because they're not interested in proving there's a haunting every single time. They seem more interested in figuring out what's bothering the people that think they are haunted.

[Élistariel]

Ghost Hunters. I prefer the "try to debunk it" approach.
Over here (me, my roomie and her coworkers), we refer to them as the "Nay-sayers." :D

I just prefer actual evidence I can see and or hear. Someone on a TV screen telling the audience they "feel" a presence really does nothing for me. Research-based evidence helps too.

Tangent-alert:

Actually, if we weren't broke and busy my roomie and I would SO start our own um... Paranormal ... thing.
There's some society/group thing here, but they're too "every speck of dust MUST be an orb!" for us.
They visit places like cemeteries too. Why would a ghost haunt a cemetery? Wouldn't it make more sense for them to haunt: places they frequented when alive, where they lived, or the place they died? I always chalked (is that even the right word), those orbs you see in cemetery photos to dew, mist and shiny-surfaced tombstones.

[Eldawyn]

For those of you that said you don't trust or don't like "Most Haunted" as much... and especially for those that do, there's a really great book called "Will Storr vs. the Paranormal."

He's a journalist from the UK and this book is really excellent. Anyway, in it he talks about going to Most Haunted's live show one year. He was supposed to be one to "autenticate" to the audience (a few miles away from the site) that everything was real and really happening. Well... I want you to read the book, but basically, he found out it was all pretty much just staged. Even the main mediums' "episodes" were scheduled.

Obviously I chose "Ghost Hunters." I love those guys. And I love that they go somewhere to debunk, not prove.

[Agaliha]

For those of you that said you don't trust or don't like "Most Haunted" as much... and especially for those that do, there's a really great book called "Will Storr vs. the Paranormal."

He's a journalist from the UK and this book is really excellent. Anyway, in it he talks about going to Most Haunted's live show one year. He was supposed to be one to "authenticate" to the audience (a few miles away from the site) that everything was real and really happening. Well... I want you to read the book, but basically, he found out it was all pretty much just staged. Even the main mediums' "episodes" were scheduled.


Wow. That's interesting. I'm not too surprised though. :2G:
I'll see if my library has the book, I'll skim though it.

[Sacredsin]

Ghost Hunters for me as well. I highly detest the Most Haunted style to be honest. I'm a very skeptical person, and tend to get quite irritated when things are automatically assumed to be paranormal. I admire Ghost Hunters for using real scientific approaches as opposed to sensationalism. Personally, I don't think scientific investigations should include psychic involvement. There are so many frauds out there and psychics don't stand up to criticism as well as good, hard evidence does. Ghost Hunters brings a lot of awareness and professionalism to the paranormal community and a lot of people who wouldn't have entertained the idea of the paranormal before can more easily accept it due to Ghost Hunters approach to investigations. Just my two cents though and I tend to be quite the cynic. :)

[Cindlady2]

I agree that Ghost Hunters is the better of the 2, however I wish they could spend more time at some of the places where they didn't seem to find anything or much of anything. Things don't always happen every night, and I'm sure allot got missed just because they happen to come at the wrong time. It's real hard to get a ghost to keep an appointmet!

[Agaliha]

I agree that Ghost Hunters is the better of the 2, however I wish they could spend more time at some of the places where they didn't seem to find anything or much of anything. Things don't always happen every night, and I'm sure allot got missed just because they happen to come at the wrong time. It's real hard to get a ghost to keep an appointment!

Yeah, sometimes things just don't pan out.
It isn't until they've left the place and gone through all the data that they find there's really not anything there...in which case its too late to stay a few more hours in the place to possibly catch something.

In their reveal to the people, though they always say they're there for them if they need help and advice-- just call, etc. And some places they have gone back to to investigate.

It would be hard to re-investigate every place that didn't provide enough EVPs or video though.

[Lunacie]

I've never seen Most Haunted, and from the comments I guess if I ever get the chance I won't waste my viewing time. I do appreciate the tools and techniques the folks from Ghost Hunters use, and their attitude towards proving or disproving the paranormal has taught me quite a bit.

I was really enjoying the live show on Wednesday evening but only got to see 2 of the 6 hours. I'm looking forward to seeing "the reveal" next Wednesday. That place (Waverly Hills) is seriously spooky.

[Agaliha]

I was really enjoying the live show on Wednesday evening but only got to see 2 of the 6 hours. I'm looking forward to seeing "the reveal" next Wednesday. That place (Waverly Hills) is seriously spooky.

I saw parts of it over the night. From what I saw it seems like they have a lot of look though and many experiences. I want to see the reveal!

Here's an example as to why I prefer GHs:
They had the ball move on level 4 (I think) where the ghost of a kid named Timmy likes to go (last nights live show). Well the ball moved when asked. Over and over. Instead of just taking it as ghostly, the first tried to look for air currents, the level of the ground and other factors. Most haunted, upon hearing a tap or noise gasps and automatically assumes it's ghostly, they don't even try to see what could have caused it. I think, because GH's does that the things that they do say are paranormal have more weight because they already looked at possible angles to explain things. Unlike Most Haunted, which as far as I know have never presented any evidence of anything. They just go to a place, walk around, jump at noises, have their mediums rattle off things and do the Ouija.

[Lunacie]

Ghost hunting with a Ouija board? How the heck does that work?

I've seen someone use dowsing rods on Ghost Hunters in the past, but I've never used dowsing rods myself until this Samhain. One of our members brought a set and I got to try them out. I'd love to use a set to look through a place that's supposed to be haunted. Dowsing rods are going on my Yuletide wish list. ;)

[Agaliha]

Yeah, Most Haunted loves the Ouija. They bring it out a lot.
They also have general séances.

And like there'll be a sound under the table or near it and people will gasp (or it'll move up a little), but there's tons of knees and feet below the table it could have been one of the people there-- knowingly or unknowingly doing it. Or any one of the camera crew accidentally (or not) causing a sound. I got sick of it all really quick.

I've seen them do automatic writing too-- and the woman, Yevette (?) she apparently got possessed for a short time. Oh and the mediums always act melodramatic.

I have seen dowsing rods on Ghost Hunters, they had some last night. I think it's just one lady that does they though. They're not part of their usual equipment.

[Agaliha]

When looking up info about another topic, I noticed a Wiki entry for Derek Acorah, since he was mentioned here, I thought I'd post this:

Acorah was challenged when he stated he was in contact with the spirits of fictional characters. In one case he became possessed by a fictitious character, Kreed kafer, (an anagram of 'Derek faker'). He also was "in touch" with the spirits of 'Rik Eedles' (an anagram of 'Derek lies'), and 'Ged Harken' ('hang Derek'). [3] [4]
Dr Ciarán O'Keeffe, Most Haunted's resident parapsychologist, says that these names were given to Acorah just before the cameras rolled, or mentioned in his earshot by other crew members before the shoot. The names were subsequently incorporated into Acorah's 'possession', shown in the programme, throwing doubt on the reliability of his claims. O'Keeffe claims that the Mirror newspaper took much of what he said out of context and suggests that, until solid proof is found, people cannot be certain about the claims of mediums. He does say, however, that of all the mediums he has studied, "the most probable explanation is a normal one, whether that be cold reading, Barnum effect, or even fraud."[5]
The show's presenter, Yvette Fielding, is quoted as saying that Acorah was dropped from the show because the incidents above demonstrated that "he was a fake". She is also quoted as saying that his "violent behaviour" when he was "supposedly possessed" was becoming too dangerous.[6] However, it has been suggested that Fielding's comments distorted the facts and that Derek Acorah was not fired from the show but left of his own accord due to his contract running out.[7] Actually stated on the James Whale radio show on Talksport that his ideas for the show were appreciated but at that present time the producers wanted to carry on in the current format for the time being.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derek_Acorah
...interesting!

And:

Dr Ciaran O'Keeffe exposed aspects of the show as being fake, saying its viewers were being deceived by "showmanship and dramatics" in an interview with The Mirror.[2] On several occasions the former "psychic medium" Derek Acorah was purportedly possessed by an entity, sometimes evil or sometimes "lost and confused" One such case which exposed Derek was at Bodmin Gaol, Cornwall. Before the filming, Derek had been fed misinformation about a non-existent ghost of Kreed Kafer. During the investigation, which was later broadcast, Derek presented the information as fact and even behaved as though being possessed by the fictional ghost. O'Keeffe later revealed Kreed Kafer is an anagram of 'Derek Faker'.[2]
It should, however, be noted that Dr O'Keeffe later reported that he had been grossly misquoted and misrepresented in the article. Dr O'Keeffe produced a response outlining his version of the show based on his observations and findings, which therefore contradicted The Daily Mirror's published article.[3]
The show's presenter and executive producer, Yvette Fielding said in an interview that she believes it was a fake possession[4]. A possible theory is that Derek only thinks he is getting possessed, when in all actuality he's imagining things. Other people might say the possession-of-the-day (week, for the television one-off version) made the shows more interesting.[citation needed]
Although not mentioned by O'Keeffe, the Mirror article also brought into question unedited footage which appeared to show Yvette Fielding and Karl Beattie faking 'paranormal' occurrences such as ghostly bumps and knocks. Fielding denied the claims. [2]
Further controversy centred again in the West Country, this time in Devon. On the first night filming "Terror in Torbay", Derek mentioned a woman incarcerated by her jealous sister in the cellar of Lupton House, even coming up with the names Margaret and Eleanor. In this case, the facts were right, but the location was wrong. This is the well-known legend of Berry Pomeroy Castle which was to be the last night's location. On the final night, at Berry Pomeroy, Yvette reminded Derek that he had mentioned the incarcerated sister two nights prior, yet Derek glossed over his mistake and changed the subject.
According to eyewitnesses, the urn used in the live show supposedly had a barcode on it. [citation needed]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Most_Haunted#Controversy

So why did Derek really leave?
Unbeknown to us, Ciaran O’Keeffe [the show’s resident sceptic] had suspicions about Derek and decided to plant some information to see if it would be repeated. He left a piece of paper around with the name ‘Kreed Kafer’ on it and said, within earshot of Derek, that he was a nasty South African jailor. When we started filming, Derek decided to get possessed by this fake person. The name is actually an anagram of Derek Faker. We tell people everything is real, then it turns out he was a fake, so he had to go.


Did you feel let down?
I was more angry than anything. I was upset that someone we considered to be close could do that. And then we had the possessions but we were getting three every show and, in every one, Derek would have the same voice. He’d also attack the crew members when he was supposedly possessed so it could have got dangerous for us.
http://www.metro.co.uk/fame/interviews/article.html?in_article_id=23243&in_page_id=11

[Golias]

I have a question:

Where can I see the raw, unedited footage from a Ghost Hunters episode?

Golias

[Petunia]

Agaliha beat me to it. LOL. I read those articles as well. Of course, Fielding is no better. I've seen ridiculously obvious footage of her faking table movement and one where she tried to move a glass, but the dimwit forgot that she had gloves on or something because when she applied pressure her finger slid across the top and the glass didn't budge. She tried to cover by turning to the person next to her and saying something like "OMG the glass moved! Did you see that?" I wish I could find the link to those vids. I'll have to go back through my other forums and see if I can find it on a MH thread.

In case it's not obvious I prefer the TAPS approach. I think that having experienced the paranormal myself has actually made me even more of a skeptic. Ghost Hunters won my undying respect when a client said that she got ill everytime she went into her basement and their immediate response was "We'd better take the carbon monoxide detector."


Found that vid link if anyone is interested: http://badpsychics.com/thefraudfiles/modules/news/article.php?storyid=45

lol: It was in a thread on the TAPS forum.

[Agaliha]

Oh, nice link Petunia!

Ha. Very obvious she's doing it.

I found some others on YT: http://youtube.com/results?search_query=Yvette+Fielding+fake&search=Search
Most are of the same videos, but I think there's a few more.
Like this one: http://youtube.com/watch?v=ATpUHp0LdUw

That's the major problem with Most Haunted. They pay too much attention (and give too much weight) to noises, bums and crap that can easily have human origins-- and are very easy to fake.

[paganmom23]

Ghost Hunters hands down!!

[Astara Seague]

:fpraise:Ghosthunters here too

[Moonlight's Daughter]

Ghosthunters-hands down. Has anyone seen Paranormal State yet?

[Agaliha]

Has anyone seen Paranormal State yet?

No, I haven't.
They have the episodes offered On Demand to watch, but I haven't gotten to them. Is it for real, semi-real or fake? From the commercials I really can't tell.

Edit: Well Wiki said it's a docu-drama.
But then I saw this:
The show is produced by Four Seasons Productions International and Go Go Luckey Productions (which produced MTV's Laguna Beach: The Real Orange County and Newport Harbor: The Real Orange County, and A&E's now-cancelled Rollergirls). Gary Auerbach and Julie Auerbach (who head Go Go Luckey Productions) and Emmy-nominated Betsy Schechter (Four Seasons) are the executive producers.

Those are all pseudo-reality shows :2G:


Hmmm. What about Ghost Hunters International-- anyone seen that?
Thoughts? It premiered last week.

[thought_on_a_wind]

Most Haunted just has a bunch of people running around scared with bad camera angles and highly exciteable minds that can interpret anything into a ghost. They lack the methodology appropriate for the field of ghost hunting.

Paranormal State had me interested till I realized they were too full of dogma for my taste. As far as I'm concerned, demon activity is rarer than most would think, because they get tired of smashing ants beneath thier heels (not because they are scared or anything far from it) or, alternately, because we aren't worth their time. They jump to that conclusion FAR too much, and use questionable practices to "collect" evidence. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that their intentions are anything but immaculate, but they have no right telling a parent that their kid killed himself because a ghost told him to end it all. Plus, they seem to assault anything they consider to be a ghost. I know I'd get pissed if someone I didn't know walked into my domicile and told me to FOAD. Plus, some of the equipment they use is assinine. A motion detector? Are you kidding me? A mouse could set one of them off and you'd never know it if you weren't paying close attention.

Ghost Hunters is great because they try to be as skeptical as possible, they try to apply as much of the scientific method as they can, and they don't run away but rather go towards the phenomena most of the time. Not to mention that they use fairly good equipment. Their system is very methodic, if they percieve something as having a slight chance at being mundane they dismiss it, yet still have some very convincing evidence. They also are very consistent with their procedures, and have a certain amount of cohesiveness amongst the members of the team. It also helps that they have cameras set up all over running autonomously. (my fave clip is the one where they investigated that Wrath in Ireland.)

[thought_on_a_wind]

Hmmm. [/FONT]What about Ghost Hunters International-- anyone seen that?
Thoughts? It premiered last week.




I like it, the new leader seems more a skeptic, and doesn't give orbs a second thought... they seem a little shakey without Jay and Grant, but maybe they'll gain their "ghost legs"...
The only guy in the group that bugs me is Andy, I can't place exactly what it is, 'cause he's calmed down since he was last on Ghost Hunters...

[CinnamonFaerie]

I'll call Ghost Hunters/TAPS anyday before I call up the Most Haunted or CourtTv types which are way too silly and melodramatic for my tastes.

[Petunia]

No, I haven't.
They have the episodes offered On Demand to watch, but I haven't gotten to them. Is it for real, semi-real or fake? From the commercials I really can't tell.

Edit: Well Wiki said it's a docu-drama.
But then I saw this:
The show is produced by Four Seasons Productions International and Go Go Luckey Productions (which produced MTV's Laguna Beach: The Real Orange County and Newport Harbor: The Real Orange County, and A&E's now-cancelled Rollergirls). Gary Auerbach and Julie Auerbach (who head Go Go Luckey Productions) and Emmy-nominated Betsy Schechter (Four Seasons) are the executive producers.

Those are all pseudo-reality shows :2G:


Hmmm. What about Ghost Hunters International-- anyone seen that?
Thoughts? It premiered last week.





In defense of Paranormal State I feel inclined to say something. The "Dark Man" episode took place in a small town 4 miles from where I live. I don't know about "demons" but I do know a few facts. The episode was most definitely filmed where claimed. The family friend "Delores" owns a local supply store (herbs, crystals and the like) which I have shopped in. Also, I remember the sons' death very clearly. His obituary caused a moment of panic. His name was Chris Isenberg and I have a cousin named Chris Eisenberg. The obit when he died gave me a frightening instance of "What if that's a typo and it's my cousin?!"
I won't get into my incredibly dysfunctional family but it's not uncommon to find out about deaths, births, or anything else via the local paper before any relatives actually call.
Anyway, I'm willing to give PRS the benefit of the doubt for those reasons.

[Lunacie]

I haven't seen Paranormal State, but I have experienced learning about the death of a relative by watching my local newscast (my aunt died in a house fire).