Help finding an Underworld God and His Daughter

[aluokaloo]

I know what they look like, I don't know their names, or even their culture! He has black hair, and a pot belly, and he also has a lot of gray in his hair. She has golden blonde hair and blue eyes, she looks like she might be 18. But I have no idea who they are?

[Tanya]

Are you sure its not Hades and Persephone?

Of course Persephone isn't his daughter... but is his much younger wife.

I do recall that Vulcan might have once also been seen as a god of the underworld....I don't know if he had a daughter... I think he was married to Aphrodite... I might be wrong.

[aluokaloo]

I know it's not Hades and Persephone, I know them decently enough and I know what they both look like. I'm pretty sure it's not them, because she called him father.

[Agaliha]

Tricky.
Was there any more details?
And do you have any idea what pantheon they might be from?

Also many deities are in some way related, even if not directly. Are you sure her calling him father was literal and not say being respectful?

Could it be some other Hellenistic deities?
Theoi.com | Underworld Gods of Greek Mythology (http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0oGkxA9Si5HJqsAcj1XNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTFhZXExNW4wBHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDMTcEY29sbwNzazEEdnRpZANQUjAxMF85M ARsA1dTMQ--/SIG=12djck3ib/EXP=1194302397/**http%3a//www.theoi.com/greek-mythology/underworld-gods.html) -- has tons. Many are related to each other.

*goes searching*

[aluokaloo]

well i saw them in a dream i had about dying which stunk, and his assistant so to speak stole his pink and silver pig, and they had a perilous bridge to cross i wish i knew what pantheon they were from

[Agaliha]

Boars Pigs and Myth (http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0oGkxJ_Sy5HlakAIbBXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTE5YnJkMWtyBHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDMQRjb2xvA3NrMQR2dGlkA1BSMDEwXzkwB GwDV1Mx/SIG=127iedvih/EXP=1194302719/**http%3a//meadhall.homestead.com/BoarsPigsandMyth.html) might help. I haven't read it all though. Mentions the pig being a symbol of the underworld and examples.

[Fiamma]

Are you sure its not Hades and Persephone?

Of course Persephone isn't his daughter... but is his much younger wife.

I do recall that Vulcan might have once also been seen as a god of the underworld....I don't know if he had a daughter... I think he was married to Aphrodite... I might be wrong.

Hephaestus married Aphrodite, they're Greek. Vulcan and Venus are Roman.

Just did some googling, not showing anywhere that the Romans put Venus with Vulcan. As far as I know, there was also no adulterous affair between Venus and Mars as there was with Aphrodite and Ares.

[Brigid Rowan]

I dug around on this a bit, so far, nothing seems to match, but perhaps you will dream of them again, and get more details?

[Simply Puzzled]

Are you sure its not Hades and Persephone?

Of course Persephone isn't his daughter... but is his much younger wife.

Well, kind of. There was the thought among some ancient Greeks that Zeus was the underworld deity as Zeus Kthonos. In this model, he has dual functions as King of the Gods and Lord of the Underworld. So He and Demeter have a daughter, that is an aspect of Demeter herself, and She goes to the Underworld to marry another aspect of Zeus. So in this way, it's sort of a "As Above, So Below." The pantheon of the upper worlds is repeated in the Underworld.

The gods are multi-faceted, and it's possible the op is just picking up on another part of the pair that she hadn't seen before. I wouldn't put money on it, but it is a possibility.

[Nitefalle]

For some reason, the pig is making me think of Welsh deities. Arawn was an Underworld deity in Welsh mythos (I believe), though I don't know if he had children or assistants. I believe one did have to cross a bridge into Annwn......however, I'm not very knowledgeable in this area, so I could be totally off.

[Agaliha]

Oh, good suggestion Nitefalle!

There's the Underworld, bridge, pigs, etc.
Just not sure about the daughter in the dream.

Aluokaloo, I have no idea what you look like, but is it possible the daughter in the dream symbolized you? It could even symbolize you if it doesn't look like you exactly. I've looked different in my dreams. Dreams are often very symbolic, maybe look into less literal interpretations?

Arawn was the Lord of Annwfn (Otherworld) in the First Branch of the Mabinogi – Pwyll Lord of Dyved (Mabinogion). Arawn befriended Pwyll when they encountered one another in the woods. Arawn offered Pwyll to take his place as Lord of Annwfn for one year and a day. Pwyll would be transformed to look like Arawn, so that Pwyll could fight Havgtan (Hafgan) in his place. Havgtan was also a Lord of Annwfn and Arawn's archenemy. Havgtan could only be killed in one blow, for the second blow would magically heal Havgtan. So Pwyll mortally wounded Havgtan and refused to strike another blow, so Arawn's enemy died.
Arawn had a beautiful wife, who was unnamed. While Pwyll was pretending to be her lord and husband, Pwyll did not take advance of it, making love to Arawn's wife. Arawn was surprised that Pwyll would protect his wife's chastity, that they became friends and allies. Arawn richly rewarded Pwyll for both deeds. It is believed that Arawn had sent Rhiannon to become Pwyll's wife.
Arawn had also given pigs to Pryderi, Pwyll's son, when Pryderi became Lord of Dyved. These pigs were stolen by Gwydyon (Gwydion), in the Fourth Branch of the Mabinogi – Math Son of Mathonwy. This led to a war between Dyved and Gwynedd, where Pryderi was killed in single combat against Gwydyon, the nephew of King Math of Gwynedd.
tried to steal in the obscure poem in the Book of Taliesin, called Arawn was also said to possess the magic cauldron, which ArthurSpoils of Annwfn (Preiddiau Annwfn).
http://www.timelessmyths.com/celtic/welsh.html#Arawn

[aluokaloo]

noI'm short and dark haired. Not tall and blonde. but it was definately an interesting thought.

[TomasFlannabhra]

Your description sounds like Dagda and Brighid.

[aluokaloo]

yeah I never thought that His daughter might not be an underworld goddess.

[aluokaloo]

i do have two pulls, and they are both waaaay off course. Arawn does seem to pull me one way, but the description of a Finnish Goddess named Kalma reminds me very strongly of the old woman who stole the pig. I still have no idea who the daughter is. Does he even have a daughter? Could celtic deities and finnish deities cross paths ever? Why on earth would a finnish goddess want to steal some pig from a welsh god if that were the case? ow would that even work? Man am I confused! Scratch that! The only mention of a daughter I could find is Alianora

[aluokaloo]

i checked out Brighid and I seemed to have gotten an almost instant pull from her. But I also checked out the Daghda and nada, nothing, I felt no tug, except that The Daghda wasn't it at all. Perhaps I shouldn't be so weirded out, except that Brighid called him father, and I was under the impression that Brighid is an Irish Goddess. I still can't understand what a finnish goddess would be doing mixed in, because I'm pretty certain it's this Kalma. Any ideas?

[Theres]

Celtic mythology isn't really my field, but doesn't Boan have some association with a white sow?
or has my memory short-circuited (again)?

[The Amityville Ghost]

This isn't really my field either, but I think you definitely want to focus in on the Celtic pantheons...Seems to me that's the best place to look.

I've heard of an Irish underworld/death deity named Donn (not to be confused with the Welsh equivalent of Danu). But aside from his name I have no information about him. The pot-belly part sounds like Dagda and for some reason the woman makes me think of Blodeuwedd, but I'm not sure why.

[Myzterio]

Erm, I'm not at all knowledgeable about Celtic pantheons (or, really, any non-Mediterranean pantheons), but I reckon they might be trying to tell you that they're intertwined.
That seems the logical deduction from the fact that you're dreaming of deities from three different religions, at least, if you are in fact, and not just missing options somewhere.

I know you've already stated this, but I'm just pointing out that it might be right.
Oh, and I do think a lot of people connect more with certain deities than others, so the god might in fact be the Daghda, but you're just not connecting to him.

Also, if I messed up somewhere, kindly refrain from chewing my head off? :weirdsmil

[aluokaloo]

Erm, I'm not at all knowledgeable about Celtic pantheons (or, really, any non-Mediterranean pantheons), but I reckon they might be trying to tell you that they're intertwined.
That seems the logical deduction from the fact that you're dreaming of deities from three different religions, at least, if you are in fact, and not just missing options somewhere.

I know you've already stated this, but I'm just pointing out that it might be right.
Oh, and I do think a lot of people connect more with certain deities than others, so the god might in fact be the Daghda, but you're just not connecting to him.

Also, if I messed up somewhere, kindly refrain from chewing my head off? :weirdsmil

trust me when I say I know nothing about celtic deities and they never really caught my attention the way the greek pantheon does. I also nothing about finnish deities either. I didn't think of not being able to connect with certain deities, that didn't really enter my head, usually when I'm looking for info on deities unknown I get a pull or a feel of repelling off of them when i've tracked down the right one or ended on a dead end so to speak. And don't worry about me chewing your head off, I don't think I could do the whole cannibal thing.:fpoke:

[Nitefalle]

Did you research Kalma's father, the Finnish god of the Underworld? His name was Tuoni, but could also be named as Manala. Try researching a bit into The Kalevala, the Finnish national epic. It's pretty much all that's left of the pre-Christian religion, even though it was written down after the monks came in.

[TomasFlannabhra]

Celtic mythology isn't really my field, but doesn't Boan have some association with a white sow?
or has my memory short-circuited (again)?

Yep, that she is. I forgot all about her.
o.O

[WitchCraftWeaver]

For some reason, the pig is making me think of Welsh deities. Arawn was an Underworld deity in Welsh mythos (I believe), though I don't know if he had children or assistants. I believe one did have to cross a bridge into Annwn......however, I'm not very knowledgeable in this area, so I could be totally off.


Wasn't Rhiannon Heveydd Hên's daugher? She married Pwyll, who was made "Chief of Annwvyn" in the story of Pwyll, Prince of Dyved and he was a great Swineherd, following his year and a day in Annwn, having traded places with "Arawn, a King of Annwvyn" and killing Havgan.