Overstepping my bounds?

[aluokaloo]

my kid was playing at this thomas the train table set at barnes n noble this little boy ran off with all the trains, he wasn't that old maybe a year and a half, he didn't know any better and I was the only adul;t there. all the kids werre complainng that there were no more toys left, so I went to ask the parent of the boy if he could please return them, and one other little boy trailed me, we'll call him boy2 so i trailed boy1 and tried to talk to boy1's mom. she was listening politely butn my daughter and boy2 started talking in my ear when that happens i zone and cprobably couldn't concentrate to save my life. so to my daughter i'm asking her to please be quiet, boy2 i was asking him to wait, and i'd answer him in a sec boy2's mom was just standing there doing nothing about her own son and watching the whole affair. so whenever i tried to kindly explain to boy1's mom, both my kid and boy2 kept interrupting, and i was getting really dazed and frustrated because they were both putting me in a foggy state yellinng in my ear, so finally i told my kid, "shut up shan!" she shut up, but i kept getting interrupted by boy2 whenever i tried to talk and boy2's mom still was doing nada. Now i know i could have handled my temper much much better but i was in a foggy state of mind and boy2 wouldn';t wait no matter how much i tried to nicely ask him, so finally i lost my temper and snapped on the kid, and said "I said wait!" now boy2's mom finally took action, she said "Don't you yell at my son" if i had been in a more alert state of mind i would have said something nasty, but being in a half-fog i only kinda sorta heard her and ignored her. finally the toys were returned and all was well, and then after that I started getting really annoyed. on a scale of 1-10 to those far more experienced, patient, and diplomatic parents out there how bad did i do?

[Ceres]

Bah, just another day in the jungle. I wouldnt lose sleep over it.

[aluokaloo]

:lol: is that what you call it ceres? is the jungle...I like that!

[Ceres]

:lol: is that what you call it ceres? is the jungle...I like that!

Well, there are all those wild little beasts running around.... :weirdsmil

[Autumn]

There was actually a "My Turn" in newsweek about this, You did nothing wrong, the other mother was at fault and she should have disciplined her child, not YOU!

[Tanya]

I am really surprized to see this again and again.... i would be HUMILIATED if someone had to discipline my child if I was standing right there.... mortified! Because it would say to me "You're a bad parent, why did you let things get so outta hand someone ELSE had to step in and do your job?"

and yet.... i've had to do it to other people's kids, while the parent just stars at me like a cow.....they seem completely FINE with it....

one of my pet peeves is bossiness and kids thinking they can talk to adults without any show of respect... I think its supreme cheek.... a few days ago a kid and my daugher's pre-school TELLS me... "You have to put sun block on her... " (I sunclock my daughter only on her shoulders, arms and back and give her a hat.. other mothers here dip the entire child in sunblock pudding... its a little bit of a mania around here I haven't bought into.... its a balance between skin cancer and rickets that calls for an adult's judgement about cloud cover, length of time outside, availablilty of shade... etc etc...

I ignored him, because
1. he was 4 and i didn't want to dignify the disrespect he had shown me with a response
2. his mother was standing right there.

But when he YELLED at me "You can't let her go outside. YOU HAVE TO put on more sunblock"

I got down righ on his level, looked him in the eye and said very firmly... deadly firmly.... "I am Vivi's mommy, I descide what is right for her. Its very rude of you to yell at an adult or think you have better judgement than I do. '

his mom just was standing around like she was in a coma....

if my daughter EVER talked to an adult without saying in a quiet voice "Excuse me....Mr. X....." SHE would get a hell of a talking to from me... much less offer her opinion as anything BUT her opinion.......if she even had the cheek to offer her unrequested opinion at all.

I'm not a 'seen and not heard' parent... but it does a kid no good to forget... who is the cheif and who is the indian.


a few weeks ago my daughter said "If you don't do X I won't like you anymore..."

I looked at her blandly and said.. "Gee that's too bad.. especially as i'm still gonna be your mother anyway.. I think it would be more pleasent for you if you DID try to get along with me... otherwise its going to be a VERY long childhood for you."

she reconsidered hating me.... I think it was a good choice...

[Eldawyn]

Oh man... I am NOT looking forward to this kind of stuff.

[VroomBroom]

I wouldn't worry about it. You stepped up where the other mother should have been in the first place.
I would have to question her parenting skills in the first place to have her little one twaddle off and follow a strange adult around anyway! I would have been ballistic if one of my boys had followed a stranger...toys or not.

My husband turned to a little girl who was having a hissy fit in a store one time...one of those fits where you could see the steam rising out of passer-bys ears...she was truly trying to peel the paint off the walls.
Anyway, my husband turned around and asked her if someone had hit her.....someone had obviously hit her for her to be raising hell so bad....the mother never said 'boo' and the little girl sucked up all those monsterous crocodile tears and shut up.

[wolfjan1]

Bah, just another day in the jungle. I wouldnt lose sleep over it.
Well, that's just it, isn't it?
WHY are parents refusing to discipline their kids? Do we want to create 5 year old id monsters? Do we WANT them to grow up like wild beasts with no manners?
Mothers in the wild discipline their young. Some five year old will grow in to a 20 year old who cannot read or write, have no skills, and rely on bullying, raping and robbing and killing to make a living.
Do we want to continue that?

[TheWomanMonster]

I'll never be that parent... nope.


I think that judging from the examples given thus far in this thread you must all be remarkable parents. :)

[wolfjan1]

We really need for women to decide what kind of mother they are going to be. to decide if she wants to visit her baby in Juvenile Hall, or take them to a play or a museum or read to them from conception and teach them manners and class. We need this to survive. This world is in seriously bad shape with all kinds of ids walking around in high places who need to be jailed.

[Ceres]

I really dont think this is that serious. Who knows what went on. Maybe that mother was distratcted by something else going on. Maybe she just found out her husband has had an affair. Maybe she was trying to recall if she left the coffee maker on. Sure, she might have handled it better, but then again, we dont know what was going on in her life. I have turned into a momma bear defending my kids before too, only to find out I didnt HEAR what had gone on and that my kids had been in the wrong.

IMO, the problems with youth ending up in juvie are more often caused by overbearing parenting than lack of parenting. So the kid was rude? Thats nothing new, adults have been complaining of rude behavior by kids since ancient times. It really bothers me to see adults speak of kids as though they expect perfect behaviour when we adults are CERTAINLY not perfect ourselves!

In the end, it was a small incident. A verbal exchange on a difference of parenting. Not a percursor to the child being a delinquent but certainly nothing for Aloukaloo to feel bad about either.

[Brightshores]

IMO, the problems with youth ending up in juvie are more often caused by overbearing parenting than lack of parenting. So the kid was rude? Thats nothing new, adults have been complaining of rude behavior by kids since ancient times. It really bothers me to see adults speak of kids as though they expect perfect behaviour when we adults are CERTAINLY not perfect ourselves!

This is very true - I saw an example of this in the grocery store last week. There was a father, mother and little boy (I'd say around 3 or 4 years old) shopping in the cereal aisle. The father was playing so roughly with the little boy that I literally had to look two or three times to make sure that he wasn't abusing the kid. The father was grabbing the poor kid around the neck and putting him into headlocks, hauling him around by his shirt and jacket, pretending to punch him and yelling "Beatdown!" I was disgusted, but obviously didn't say anything - it's none of my business.

So - I saw them again in the next aisle... and of course, the kid was behaving like an animal. He was hitting his father, kicking his mother in the rear end, and generally raising hell. The father was giggling indulgently, and the mother just seemed to take it all with a weary sort of resignation.

So - I'm sure this kid is going to turn out to be a bully - or one of those kids who steal other people's Thomas the Tank Engine toys. And I wouldn't expect that mother to ever try to check his behavior, from the looks of her. If violence and self-indulgence is all a child is taught - then that's how the child will relate to the world, sadly.

[Myzterio]

I really dont think this is that serious. Who knows what went on. Maybe that mother was distratcted by something else going on. Maybe she just found out her husband has had an affair. Maybe she was trying to recall if she left the coffee maker on. Sure, she might have handled it better, but then again, we dont know what was going on in her life. I have turned into a momma bear defending my kids before too, only to find out I didnt HEAR what had gone on and that my kids had been in the wrong.

IMO, the problems with youth ending up in juvie are more often caused by overbearing parenting than lack of parenting. So the kid was rude? Thats nothing new, adults have been complaining of rude behavior by kids since ancient times. It really bothers me to see adults speak of kids as though they expect perfect behaviour when we adults are CERTAINLY not perfect ourselves!

In the end, it was a small incident. A verbal exchange on a difference of parenting. Not a percursor to the child being a delinquent but certainly nothing for Aloukaloo to feel bad about either.


I disagree, partially. Now, I'm not a parent, but I have seen how parents handle their kids, and - obviously - I've been raised myself. First off, whenever you're supposed to take care of your children, that comes first. No matter what. Husband/wife having an affair? Fine. Call your parents, or a friend, or go over to the neighbours, and ask them to look after them for a moment, or ask them to go to their rooms or so (depending on age and such). THEN feel free to have a row.

Additionally, it's not entirely due to overbearing parenting; lack of parenting plays as big a part. Many parents are only overbearing when other people comment/act on their children's behaviour (and by that, their parenting!!), but don't actually educate their children enough on what can and what can't be done.

My father is a teacher, and he has had people threaten him over the phone because their children were failing or had been told to stay in school because of being a pain in the arse; fortunately, my father's rather a large man, and very charismatic, so when people actually talk to him they tend to be a lot more timid, at which point he can explain the situation. By that point, parents find out the truth about their hellions (throwing hammers through the classroom and such) and circumstances change entirely.
Those people react first to the fact that it's their parenting skills being put down, which hurts their own pride. Well, boohoo, everyone screws up, but that doesn't mean you have to get defencive and act violently before knowing what was going on.

Now, of course, if someone threatens your child, act on it. Immediately. But otherwise? Ask what's going on first. Ask both the adult and your child about what happened, but assume the adult is right (unless s/he's a complete jackass).


Oh, even though my parents were overprotective, I was always quite neat and polite. For me that came naturally as well, but I'm sure other children can be taught just fine.

[Ceres]

I disagree, partially. Now, I'm not a parent, but I have seen how parents handle their kids, and - obviously - I've been raised myself. First off, whenever you're supposed to take care of your children, that comes first. No matter what. Husband/wife having an affair? Fine. Call your parents, or a friend, or go over to the neighbours, and ask them to look after them for a moment, or ask them to go to their rooms or so (depending on age and such). THEN feel free to have a row.

Additionally, it's not entirely due to overbearing parenting; lack of parenting plays as big a part. Many parents are only overbearing when other people comment/act on their children's behaviour (and by that, their parenting!!), but don't actually educate their children enough on what can and what can't be done.

My father is a teacher, and he has had people threaten him over the phone because their children were failing or had been told to stay in school because of being a pain in the arse; fortunately, my father's rather a large man, and very charismatic, so when people actually talk to him they tend to be a lot more timid, at which point he can explain the situation. By that point, parents find out the truth about their hellions (throwing hammers through the classroom and such) and circumstances change entirely.
Those people react first to the fact that it's their parenting skills being put down, which hurts their own pride. Well, boohoo, everyone screws up, but that doesn't mean you have to get defencive and act violently before knowing what was going on.

Now, of course, if someone threatens your child, act on it. Immediately. But otherwise? Ask what's going on first. Ask both the adult and your child about what happened, but assume the adult is right (unless s/he's a complete jackass).


Oh, even though my parents were overprotective, I was always quite neat and polite. For me that came naturally as well, but I'm sure other children can be taught just fine.

1) I am not talking about overprotective - that has its own consequences- I am talking about overbearing. That means on the kid about everything, constantly nitpicking and criticizing, usually because of well meaning people who assure them of the importance of being an active parent.

2)We are not talking about way out of control hellions or others reacting violently. This is how these threads get blown out of proportion. We are talking about a minor verbal exchange over a difference in parenting. The kid was yapping at Aloulokoo and she had enough and said cut it out; the other parents told her not to discipline her child. Big Deal.

3)If you think good parenting is dumping kids off with someone else everytime you are distracted by life, you are not going to see much of your kids when you have them. And they wont learn much about family relations. Parents have other things on their minds besides their kids and so they should. I am not defending a parent who isnt bothered with their kids, but every parent on this board knows you arent totally focused on your kid every minute you are with them. That would just be unhealthy.

4) Dont assume you know why a parent does what they do. Dont assume they arent teaching them anything when you dont know what goes on when you arent there. Dont assume because you see an incidence of what appears to be indifferent parenting that they arent good parents because sometimes good parenting IS keeping your mouth shut. If you have a problem with their parenting, I guess its up to you to find a polite way to ask why they do it that way. It isnt the job of the parent to make sure all other adults in the room understand why they parent that way. In fact, adults who feel they need to do this make poor parents because they have no confidence in their skills.

One last note: parenting is MESSY business. Things arent always as they seem. Sometimes the best behaved kids (when the adults are around) are the most bullied at home and are the ones who end up bullying others. You may see a snippet of wild behavior and make assumptions about a kid who while high strung is the most empathetic to the feelings of other kids.

[Myzterio]

Sorry for my error there, my bad, please excuse my misinterpretation. Thank you for clarifying, it does make quite a difference, as I fully agree with you there.

No, we are not discussing hellions or violent reactions per se, but exaggerations are very useful in making a point, as they are more distinct and much clearer. However, it was not simply an exchange about a difference in views on parenting (especially as the OP didn't really respond), the child was actually out of line.

On the next point, please don't take it to mean I would dump my hypothetical children off with another as soon as my life would interfere. A spouse having an affair is - assuming you've decided amongst each other that this is not okay - is a rather major thing, however, that could affect the rest of the parents' and the childrens' lives - by virtue of which it is enough reason to make sure they're dealt with by others, or look after themselves for a while. Like I said, it all depends on the age and responsibility of the children themselves.
Additionally, even if parents are occupied with other business, they should still be able to take care of their children, and yes, with small children that means you'll have to check on them regularly.
By no means should you focus on your child absolutely and entirely, as I'm a firm believer of children learning from their own mistakes and that you shouldn't have to clear off the table because they just might take something off and choke on it or so. Still, it'd be sensible to make sure you can interfere should your 1 year old child grab that steaming hot pot of tea. You don't have to keep an eye on them every second, just pay a reasonable amount of attention.

I don't assume parents are indifferent (in fact, I know most parents care about their children more than anything), I assume parents are just too proud to accept that they might have misjudged or overlooked an aspect in their parenting, and would rather blame another than look at the possibility of erring. And I can't blame them, that's a normal reaction and I'm sure I'll do so myself at least a few times when my turn comes, it's just that I would want it to be otherwise.

I assure you, I'm the last person to comment on others' parenting behaviour, as I'm not yet a parent myself and don't know what it's actually like, but that doesn't mean I don't think of the way they could improve; nor doesn't mean I don't make mental notes to avoid it in the future myself.

On the last comment: if they end up bullying others they cannot exactly be called 'best behaved kids', can they? Oh, certainly, they'll adapt their behaviour according to who's around, especially with adults. And there can be quite a difference between wild behaviour and violent or impolite behaviour, depending on what you view as 'wild', either way, if they're empathic but disrespectful anyway, something's amiss regardless - not necessarily something to change, as it may just be a personality trait, but that doesn't make them polite.

[RainInanna]

I think some people are really just waiting for an excuse to be rude.

Or as Ceres said, maybe the lady was just distracted.

I think your behaviour was better then mine would have been. Kudos to you for trying to find a solution and being kind and patient in the first place.

[Tullip Troll]

you did great, you didn't slap anyone so yeah! for you.

I don't understand other parents letting their children be rude or letting other parents deal with their childs problem.

[RainInanna]

The Thomas table at the bookstore is always crazy here too. When I tried to let my son play there the other day we finally gave up because there was a bunch of toddlers/preschoolers who just about ran him over trying to get around the table. Even when I stood with him and parents were watching I was expecting one of them to tell their kids to say "excuse me", but no. What about teaching kids some manners?

*shrugs*

[LadyWinter]

1) I am not talking about overprotective - that has its own consequences- I am talking about overbearing. That means on the kid about everything, constantly nitpicking and criticizing, usually because of well meaning people who assure them of the importance of being an active parent.

2)We are not talking about way out of control hellions or others reacting violently. This is how these threads get blown out of proportion. We are talking about a minor verbal exchange over a difference in parenting. The kid was yapping at Aloulokoo and she had enough and said cut it out; the other parents told her not to discipline her child. Big Deal.

3)If you think good parenting is dumping kids off with someone else everytime you are distracted by life, you are not going to see much of your kids when you have them. And they wont learn much about family relations. Parents have other things on their minds besides their kids and so they should. I am not defending a parent who isnt bothered with their kids, but every parent on this board knows you arent totally focused on your kid every minute you are with them. That would just be unhealthy.
4) Dont assume you know why a parent does what they do. Dont assume they arent teaching them anything when you dont know what goes on when you arent there. Dont assume because you see an incidence of what appears to be indifferent parenting that they arent good parents because sometimes good parenting IS keeping your mouth shut. If you have a problem with their parenting, I guess its up to you to find a polite way to ask why they do it that way. It isnt the job of the parent to make sure all other adults in the room understand why they parent that way. In fact, adults who feel they need to do this make poor parents because they have no confidence in their skills.

One last note: parenting is MESSY business. Things arent always as they seem. Sometimes the best behaved kids (when the adults are around) are the most bullied at home and are the ones who end up bullying others. You may see a snippet of wild behavior and make assumptions about a kid who while high strung is the most empathetic to the feelings of other kids.

:ringaroun Best post I have read in forever! Especially the bolded part!:smash::fpartyfav
Winter

[LadyWinter]

The Thomas table at the bookstore is always crazy here too. When I tried to let my son play there the other day we finally gave up because there was a bunch of toddlers/preschoolers who just about ran him over trying to get around the table. Even when I stood with him and parents were watching I was expecting one of them to tell their kids to say "excuse me", but no. What about teaching kids some manners?

*shrugs*

I have encountered similar incidents.....I try to stay with my child now...before I would let him go play or get in line while I watched to make him more independent but now I go with him...too often he is surrounded by children with no manners who are bullies.

Winter

[Ariste]

Well, that's just it, isn't it?
WHY are parents refusing to discipline their kids? Do we want to create 5 year old id monsters? Do we WANT them to grow up like wild beasts with no manners?
Mothers in the wild discipline their young. Some five year old will grow in to a 20 year old who cannot read or write, have no skills, and rely on bullying, raping and robbing and killing to make a living.
Do we want to continue that?

Because any asshole can call children and youth on you for smacking your kids bottom or being "verbally abusive" or whatever. And even if you're doing nothing wrong that can still result in several months worth of aggrivation from children and youth. I've been there, twice. And the experts tell us we must be so careful, not to hurt our children's feelings. We'll damage their psyche and they'll need therapy.

[RainInanna]

4) Dont assume you know why a parent does what they do. Dont assume they arent teaching them anything when you dont know what goes on when you arent there. Dont assume because you see an incidence of what appears to be indifferent parenting that they arent good parents because sometimes good parenting IS keeping your mouth shut.

Thank you for the reminder.

It makes me think about when I used to hear a kid screaming in the store and wonder why don't his parents just take him and go home. Well gee, imagine my surprise when I'm the parent with the crying baby and strangers looking at me funny, who's just run out for medicine he needs ASAP, and we couldn't get out any earlier because of my spouse's shifts, knowing my son is just whining because he hates being in the car in the evening and he's really fine.

One of those times when I got a big slice of humble pie!

[Autumn]

I used to get rather annoyed by parents who wouldn't control their kids, I usually try to ignore it when I can but when I can't because someone could get hurt I speak up. I find it very intimidating to do so, but when you've got a child misusing playground equipment in such a way as my smaller children can't enjoy it I will speak up.

people who complain when you righfully rebuke their children are teaching the kid that mommie and daddy are the only grownups they need listen to. It's going to be hell on teachers, lunch-ladies and hall/playground monitors!

[Ceres]

One of those times when I got a big slice of humble pie!

I have eaten a lot of humble pie over the years...:weirdsmil

Parenting is a learning experience and the harsher you judge someone else, the more likely I think it is that the gods will send you some real fun to contend with in your own kids.

I think it helps if you deal with bratty behavior by assuming the best intentions on the part of the kid. Telling a kid who hogs all the toys that what he is being rude is actually modelling rude behavior. Just because its an adult to a kid doesnt mean its okay to be rude.

Its much more effective to assume he didnt realize anyone else wanted to play and say to him that toys are way more fun when you have someone else to play with them together with. Then ask which toy in his hand he is going to give up. Even if this doesnt work, usually even the most spaced out parent will clue in to whats going on and make sure the toys get shared around. If not, well, at least you didnt contribute to that child's experience of allowable rudeness and it will have provided a great learning opportunity to teach your own child why what the other kid did was wrong.

[Tanya]

I was nagging my daughter to bush her teeth this morning and she askes... "Why are do you always push me around?"

lol "because I'm the mommy, that's my job" and she relaxed and smiled at me...

I think tis easy to forget, kids depend on us for structure and guidence.. I think a lot fo the parenting mistakes I see are parents thinking they should be friends with their child... no I'm the first to want that too... but i is a parent's job first to lead, and direct the child to apropriate behavior patterns.

[Ceres]

I think tis easy to forget, kids depend on us for structure and guidence.. I think a lot fo the parenting mistakes I see are parents thinking they should be friends with their child... no I'm the first to want that too... but i is a parent's job first to lead, and direct the child to apropriate behavior patterns.


I think its important to note that there is a difference between trying to suck up to your kid and protecting the relationship with your child. You cannot parent effectively without that relationship - especially when the teen years come. If your child doesnt talk to you, share whats going on in their lives, you cant guide them. Or worse, if they havent made their mistakes while they are young, they get a taste of freedom and act like an idiot.

I like to think of it more like managment in business. If you are an authoritative manager, ordering your employees around, your employees will respond by only doing what they have to to do and generally wont enjoy working for you or care about the success of the company. If you are a manager who has found balance between being authoritarian and respectful and caring, involving your employees in plans and needs of the business, your employees will feel like you care about them and will do what you ask out of respect for your authority and mutual interest in the company's success. Its a fine line, but I agree, the parents and the manager both have to avoid trying to suck up to get respect.

[Lunacie]

I tend to get very distracted and frustrated when I'm trying to focus on one thing and there are other distractions, and I don't handle it any better than the OP did. When it's not so chaotic I've actually had a good discussion or two with the child I was "correcting". One little fellow I thought was being a bully was really just wanting someone to play with him and wasn't very socially adept.

It's been much harder to help teach my grandchildren to take turns although they are so polite that they get compliments all the time. But the oldest has ADHD and blurts out whatever she's thinking without even realizing that someone else is talking at the time. She had such a hard time sitting quietly and waiting her turn to talk that I didn't even take her to story time when she was little. Sad, really.

The youngest probably is Autistic and tends to meltdown and scream or cry inconsolably when things get difficult for her - like if another child takes away the toy she was reaching for or had just put down for a second. She's going to be 6 in a couple of weeks but she is still in her "terrible twos" in many ways developmentally and emotionally.

We (their mother and I) try to pay attention and remove them from the situation when they become too disruptive, but what I find disruptive has changed in the last few years, eh. And if we took them away for every little thing they would never get the practice in social situations that will enable them to live productive lives when they grow up. But they know the rules about interrupting others (adult or child) and taking turns with toys and play equipment and we do intervene when they forget those rules.

Some parents are very touchy about their parenting skills apparently, and this is not something new although it does seem more pervasive these days. I remember taking my daughter to the laundromat when she was a baby some 30 years ago and seeing another child climbing on a chair and banging the reciever of the pay phone. I waited for her mother to say or do something, and when she never even seemed to notice what was going on I went to the child and said, "That isn't a toy. Leave it alone." Well the mother came unglued and told me I had no business parenting her child. I said, "No, that's your job, why don't you do it," and walked away.

[VroomBroom]

I have encountered similar incidents.....I try to stay with my child now...before I would let him go play or get in line while I watched to make him more independent but now I go with him...too often he is surrounded by children with no manners who are bullies.

Winter

Oh I all to well remember those times:flamer: Our mall has a playground in it and alot of the parents use it a 'dumping ground' while they shop and its always...well 80% of the time, it was full of the bratty/bully kids. Its really sad when you have to trail your child around even thru a small playground because some parents are raising hyenas.

Because any asshole can call children and youth on you for smacking your kids bottom or being "verbally abusive" or whatever. And even if you're doing nothing wrong that can still result in several months worth of aggrivation from children and youth. I've been there, twice. And the experts tell us we must be so careful, not to hurt our children's feelings. We'll damage their psyche and they'll need therapy.

Almost been there too....years ago, when my boys were little. We were 'caught' diaplining our oldest not to crack his brother on the head with a spoon, by slapping his hand for it (they were about 4 and 1 at the time)
So of course after being whacked on the head with a spoon, the baby was bawling and this woman in another booth decides to pay attention now and sees my husband pop the oldest on the hand..which starts him bawling......and of course she thinks we are sitting there beating our kids:smash:

I'm sure my telling her to mind her own arffing business (after she screeched at us across the restaurant ) didn't help the situation much either_whistle_