Any advice?

[Amberleigh]

I am seein a guy who is seperated from his wife.

He is about to start divorce proceedings. She has not worked for 13 years and does not want a divorce as it would mean that she would have to start taking responsibility for herself, and she is used to being able to realy totally upon him.

They have 2 young daughters and he wants custody of them. His wife is addicted to barbitutes and to operations - so far this year she has had 5 operations, she is deep into self destruction and we both feel that this is not an ideal situation for two girls to grow up in.

I would like to know if you could suggest any spells that I could do to protect the girls from the damage that watching their parents tearing each other apart is gonna cause them.

Also is there any spell like candle magick or even crystal things that I could do to make her go away peacefully? Even to give her clarity of mind to see waht she is doing to her children and also to herself.

What kinda ideas do you have on the moralistic implications of this kinda thing.

We are feelin quite desperate about all this and any advice or ideas would be totally wonderful.

bb

[Mithrea]

Okay first of all I want to point out that you only have one side of the story. Unless you have first hand knowledge from her that the things you are saying are true, do not be so certain. Divorces are messy messy things. Take it from me. There is no way to know for sure what is really going on with this lady from your position in the situation. I don't mean to be blunt but that is the truth. I would recommend not getting in the middle of someone elses divorce/marriage at all, much less magically. It's just not your place.

First of all a good rule to follow is to not use magic on or for someone you don't know or hasn't given you permission. Your spells should be aimed at the person you do know. You could do something to bless you bf. Do not do anything to directly affect this woman - that's just bad.

[Rick]

Forget spells, get him a divorce lawyer that's a shark...

[Grey]

I agree with rick about the soon to be ex but.... The children. You might try to get to know them real well invite them to your house often for overnighters etc, so that way its not like losing a mother but switching. be patient with them a divorce (or even a separation between unmarried parents) is very confusing. spend time with them And the mother if you can stand it. I the kids can see at least a frace of frienship between you two they'll be less likely to believe anything negative she says.

Take it from me Ive been that kid first hand:heartthro:shift::scream:

[Tammy Sullivan]

Mithrea brings up a very important and valid point. If possible, you are better off remaining as nuetral as possible.
I am divorced and my ex told alot of untruths to friends and relatives to make himself look better at the time. My children were the only ones hurt.
Wanting to protect these little girls is a wonderful thing, and I am sure they need it (what child has too many people to care?) but wouldn't it be better if you were just there for them? That is a huge protection of it's own.
I hope you don't think I am trying to discourage you from anything, I am not, Divorces are just so iffy.

[Amberleigh]

Thanks 2 everyone for responding

Basically I agree with everything you've said and had come to more or less the same conlusions. I just wanted some fresh view points - I am too close to this to always be rational.

I want to try and answer everyone seperately so please bare with me .....

Mithrea ....
yes I have not spoken to her but I have heard from other people who have been in the house and seen what happens, people who are not taking sides. He is still living at home .... for the sake of the girls - they live in different rooms this adds to the stress but he has been advised not to leave without the girls if he wants custody.

Yes divorses are messy I have been through it with family members a few times and also a friend so I know exactly what all the implications of it are. This is why I am so worried about the girls ..... I carry my own scars from my parents divorse.

My b/f has given me permission to bless and protect him and his girls - she attacked him physically this weekend ..... I dont like to see this happen. I am thinking of making him up a talisman with some herbs and crystals basically for peace and harmony and clarity of mind and protection, basically it is up to him at the end of the day. I dont think there is much I can do for the girls other than keep advising him to get them some councelling soon.

I had also come to the conclusion about casting spells against her. My bf is not pagan although since meeting me has become more understanding of it, and he asked me about that and I said that I did not think it would be a good idea and was basically looking to see what general consensus on it would be.


Rick.......
He has to get a family advocate cause it is gonna be contested ..... so we will see how it goes.

Grey .....
His daughters dont know about me and I feel it is better to keep it that way until things are finalised cause they will see me as the reason their parents are not together. I have my own son and he knows the situation and understands it and as an only child he is very excited at the prospect of having sisters. I came from a bad family background - my mom and step dad are wonderful but my father and stepmother used me as a weapon in an adult game against my mother and so I know first hand the damage that can be done and I do worry alot about them. My bf and I have begun working out ways for the girls to get used to me and to accept me, I am not rushing in there too quick cause I know that they will be the make or break of this. I dont think it would be a good ide for me to be anywhere near the mother that is for sure. She is violent and I'd rather not have to confront her in that way - she is also irrational being a drug addict and all and I dont want to be at the end of her anger and it would just upset the girls even more.

Yes I've been that kid as well and do understand what they must be going through and this is why I am treating the whole thing with kitt gloves.

She attempted suicide on Sunday ... nice thing to do to your kids dont you think!

Greta.....
I do intend to remain outta it as much as I can, but things are gonna get very ugly and very soon I think. Yes I also understand that at the end of the day it is the children that hurt the most I know I was in that situation... Of course I want to protect the girls they are the innocents here, and they have had to deal with this nastiness for so long and they are young - 13 and 8. I cant be there for them physically cause they dont know about me.

I know that things are gonna be very nasty and I also know that the girls have to be protected above anything else. My bf loves his girls and is an exception father. He woulda left along time ago but for his girls. I have encouraged him to stay for the sake of his girls until he has custody cause I know that his heart would break not seein his girls everyday. He and the mother have split up before and he left without the girls and he went back cause he could not stand being seperated from them.

Anyway thanks everyone for all the advice I do appreciate it.

bb

[Twilight Garden]

The only advice I can give is to support your lover. When you do become involved with the children (which is inevitable if you are a serious couple) make sure to be there for them. They will need help understanding and an unbiased ear to talk to. Never tell them that their mother was an addict or an unfit mother. Let them believe their mother was ill or whatever story your love wants to tell them. They will learn the truth on their own and see it with their own eyes. They will appreciate you not dissing their mom.

I have to ditto what Rick said and just reiterate really be there for him emotionally. Even though it's something he wants to do, it is hard to deal with. I don't think you ought to work any magick on the children or the soon to be ex. I wouldn't want to mix my energy with her's. Maybe talk to your lover about doing a spell with him, for him.

[Mithrea]

Originally posted by Amberleigh

Mithrea ....
yes I have not spoken to her but I have heard from other people who have been in the house and seen what happens, people who are not taking sides. He is still living at home .... for the sake of the girls - they live in different rooms this adds to the stress but he has been advised not to leave without the girls if he wants custody.


I really still feel the need to say that these people's opinions and the things they've witnessed are no substitute for first hand knowledge -- whether they can be unbiased or not.

[Tammy Sullivan]

Well, after reading your post, I certainly feel that your have your wits about you and your heart in the right place. I hope that this turns out well for everyone concerned. I am sending you hope for a peaceful solution. Bright Blessings to you

[Grey]

Best of luck amberleigh.:shift:

[WandererInGray]

*nods* I agree with what Mithrea is saying.

The first and most important thing you need to do is to stay out of it.

Completely.

You are in a relationship with him, that's fine. He's asked for protection help for himself and his girls, that's fine as well.

But you have no association with the soon to be ex, and trust me, nothing but harm will come from getting involved with her.

*smiles* I've gone through (am still going through) this myself, Amber...so if you'd like to PM me, I'm always willing to offer more advice.

And finally....if she attacked him physically?? Were the police called, and if not....*shakes head*....be careful, as Mithrea said, you may not know the whole story here.

[Twilight Garden]

Originally posted by WandererInGray
But you have no association with the soon to be ex, and trust me, nothing but harm will come from getting involved with her.

*smiles* I've gone through (am still going through) this myself This is very true. *been there*still there* :rolleyes:

[flar7]

marriage and divorce laws are probably radically different there.
South Africa?

[Amberleigh]

Thanks again for all the advice ... please keep it coming.

She told him this morning that they need to talk ... so at the moment we are hoping for the best - so he is on his way home now ..... he got her cell phone bill and there is a no that she has repeatedly called and when he called a man answered and then put down the phone and now the no is either no being answered or is continually engaged ... so he is kinda hoping she has met someone else and this is what she wants to talk about.

Although she does this often and tells him she is movng out and then just never goes. She threatens suicide on a daily basis and attempts it every so often. She is very reliant on him and has not worked in 13 years and I think she sees him as her meal ticket.

so that is the update on this.


LunarMist....
I am trying my best to support him and he tells me that I am and give him abit of calm in his life. Unfortunately yesterday he was the one having to give me calm. My sister and her family were attacked in their home, and she had a gun held to her head and was threatened with death, her husband went with them to the safe and gave them what they were after . Thank heavens no-one was hurt but I worry about the impact on her two small children so he was the one having to calm me down.

We are both working hard on coming up with ways of me getting to know the children with as little as possible disruption and also for them to see me as an addition rather than a threat to them. Especially the eldest who is a Daddies girl I worry that she is gonna see me as competition in terms of her fathers affection.

My sons father had a drug problem and I never told my son. His father has since cleaned up his act and my son has been living with him for 3 years although he is probably coming back to me next year, he misses his mommy. So yes I agree totally that it is not my place to diss her in their eyes and I never would .... children should not be used as pawns in an adult game.

My son arrives tomorrow afternoon for his winter holidays. They live in another province to me and so I only see him on his holidays. I am very excited that he is coming and so is my bf who gets on very well with him.

You'r right I would hate to mix my energy with hers it is very sharp, spiky, brittel and wild - sometimes when he comes to me I can feel it - all over him it is totaly hysterical and not nice at all - makes me wanna go and have a shower.

It was his birthday on Wednesday and I bought him a pendant that is a celtic sword with all protection runes on it. I am gonna make him a talisman and that is all ... I have decided that this has to be dealt with in the conventional way.

Please tell me more about your experiences and also tell me how to or PM me please.

Mithrea ....
yes you are right, but I did see what his head looked like after she hit him with a bunch of keys and also the burn on his arm after she threw a heater at him (it is winter here now). I also know first hand how many times she has been in hospital having operations (I cook for him and the girls when she is hospital, I have also seen the doc and hospital bills). I also feel his despair, and it makes me very sad and also very defensive for him and his girls.


Greta....
thanks for your thoughts and also for your positive views on how I am handling this nasty situation, I jsut hope that I can keep on being subjective and level headed about it.

Grey....
thanks I need lotsa luck and energy at the moment. This is all starting to get into my dreams


WandererlnGray....
Its hard for me to stay outta it cause it is very close to me - it all directly influences me and also my son who is very fond of my bf, and especially if my son comes back to live with me next year - my son will be 15 in November and he picks up on this very quickly.

I have absolutly no interest in having any form of contact with this woman, I see no gain in it all, and as you say I also see nothing but harm.

As u can tell by the no of posts I am very new here and yes I would love to PM you but have no idea how to PM and yes I would love to chat to you about this ... I think my friends are getting real sick of hearing about it and talking about it to people in a similar situation helps alot, and being there you know what I am going into and how to deal with it. I am always grateful to get some advice. Maybe you could PM me and let me know how PM.

As to the physical attack - no the police were not called in - we live in an incredibly crime filled country so something like domestic violence does not really get much notice, also he worried that if he lays a charge she might be arrested infront of the girls and they are traumatized enough already. I have advised him that if it happens again she should go and register it at the police station and atleast have an affidavid proving that she had attacked
him. He is the type of man that would never hit a woman and so he does not retaliate. Apprently these kinda attacks have ben happening for a long while and she has even stabbed him before. The other thing ofcourse is that men dont like to admit that they have been assulted by a woman..... she is also
very little and is only about 5ft tall, she is slowly starvin herslef to death and only weighs about 38kgs and can you imagine how the police would view something like that.

Anyway everyone I really appreciate all the input.

have a good weekend

blessings

[Amberleigh]

missed one ... sorry flar7.....

I am not sure what the divorse laws are in the US - they were married in community of property which means they ahve to share everything. Also cause she has not worked he has to continue supporting her, and would of course pay maintenance (allamony) should she get custody of the girls.

[Mithrea]

Heh :p

I give up.

Seeing injuries is not anywhere close to seeing the actions that caused them or their circumstances.

[Danustouch]

I have to agree with mithrea on this. Doing a protection spell for him, with his permission, is fine. I just wouldn't go naming names like.."Protect him from his mate..yadda yadda". Just cast a spell of protection and harmony for him, in general. Leave his wife completely out of it, and wait to see how the situation resolves itsself. I wouldn't go magickally messing with his girls, either, even if you feel you are doing the right thing for them, or even if HE does. Because, whether or not they are old enough to express themselves to you, you don't know them, you haven't spoken to them (or so I gather), and they haven't given you their permission. I know that children bear scars from messy divorces, and that you want to spare them that. But, i really don't think it's your place to get involved with it at all. In fact, I would even say that in a way, it might be considered immature for your lover to even ask you to. Frankly, above all, he should get them therapy about it. Not involve YOU in an issue between him and his soon to be ex, and their children together.

When the time is right, and the divorce goes through, if it ever does, and you establish a relationship with the girls (if you ever do), then, you can be a friend to them, and help them recover from the trauma that they endured during the divorce, if they will let you. Children also have their own will, and we should be very careful to be respectful of it, and not tread where we don't KNOW that we'd be welcome.

Just my opinion.

[Amberleigh]

Well the news on this is that she once again tried to overdose last night but did not admit to it, it seems this woman is totally bent on self destruction, I cant help feeling sorry for her. My bf was called out to work last night and while he was away she locked herself in the room - while there alone with the girls, they were frantic and called him and he went home. When he was home she got out the room and was so wasted on drugs that she could hardly walk or talk. Today she was still drugged and took herself to the doctor where he prescribed anti-depressants - can you believe - it and another script of the pills that she is addicted to, evne though my bf has gone to the doc and told him that she has a problem with these pills. She then altered the script for the barbitutes from 10 to 40 the phramsist called the doc and the doc called my bf. Anyway the long and short of it is that she has now been admitted to a psyciatric hospital for sever depression - apprently she had planned to take all 40 of those pills and kill herself today. Anyway she is now getting to see a proper psychiatrist and we can only hope, will get drug rehabilitation as well.

The other news is that my bf has booked the girls in for therapy as well and they will go for assesment on Friday, I am very releaved about that - I can only imagine how scared they are right now! They only know that she has gone into hospital not that she may well find herself in legal trouble for forging a prescription.

Well once again thanks for your input

Mithrea....
Yes I agree with you totally, and it is all very well saying that I know my bf and cant see it being his fault - the thing is that I am aware that they way he is with me may not necessarily be the way he is with her.


Danustouch.....
Thanks also for your input and I do value your opinion. I have decided that I am only gonna make an talisman for my bf with some protection and yes harmony and also clarity of thought and peace of mind. I feel that this is all part of what life has in store for them in terms of lessons and the need to learn those lessons and I can only be there for them on the physical side and give them comfort and support, the rest is up to them.

I agree with you about magick and the girls and I was uncomfortable with the idea which is why I asked for advise on this - I thought I was just being over sensative, but it seems that my instinct was right, and I do feel better knowing that as well. It helps clear my mind on this issue.

I am very glad that the girls are now gonna be given therapy although he tells me that he has spoken to them about this and the eldest one is not keen but he has told her that she needs to just give it a chance.

I am not invovled between them and their mother in anyway ... they have no idea that I exist, and I do prefer it that way for now cause otherwise they will associate me with their parents divorse and I really dont want that. I would then also be a place for them to direct there anger towards and I would rather them see me as a place of calm and tranquility.

Thanks for your opinion and advise

Amber

[Xander67]

everyone here has given wonderful advice, and as FLar pointed out , divorce laws may be different .

I agree with Wanderer..

I believe it is unethical to do any type of Makgical work for someone without thier consent or knowledge. No matter how Noble the intent, especially if the person asked you not to as well,
not saying this is what happend here but just needed to illustrate a point.

If your sweetheart has said it is ok , there are many effective candle spells for protection for him and the children.

I agree with Rick,
to supplement your astral work, you should deffinately make some calls. Most magick requires work in the physical realm in order to aid the higher self to do its job on the astral.
In otherwords, if you are going to do protection spells for him and the kids, you need to help him do the work to help make the changes in the environment, there is the matter of Divorce court and Custody of the children will be an issue too...

Hope this helps

[Grey]

I agree magic is not making things from nothing but changing what is there. even the greatest of flames needs a spark.

Anyways I hope thing go well for you Amberleigh and you soon to be family.

[lorhawks]

Amberleigh-

With all of this going on, who is taking care of you? I know that in relationships it is give and take. Sometimes one person needs the other's support more, but don't lose yourself in all this mess. If you cease to be that calm pool in which he finds his solace, you will no longer be able to help him. Just make sure you have a place of peace and calm within him as well.

Good Luck to you both!

Lorin

[Xander67]

OH, I almost forgot to add something...

there are many deffinitions of magick but i think this one will help here:

Magic is a method of focusing the powers of the mind to achive a desired change in ones life and also giveing him/her more control and responsibility! It is not meant to be an escape form ones duties and responsibilties, it is designed to help you Embrace "Reality"

you still have to earn money to pay the bills,
you still have to eat to stay alive

if you get where im headed with this LOL

[ChelleOfShadows]

First let me say I am sorry that you have found yourself in this position and you are obviously torn and upset. I however agree with Mithrea.

I was the wife once. I had sever kidney problems which required a series of operations and hospital stays. When I met the woman my husband had been seeing she told me that she was led to believe I was having plastic surgery...... face lift, tummy tuck, etc.... She told me that I was abusive and neglectful of my children, that against his wishes I refused to breastfeed my daughter and threw her in daycare at six weeks old because I didn't want to take care of her or my two sons. That I was continually emptying the bank account because of my cocaine habit.

All of this was lies. My kidney problems and the 5 medications I was having to take dried up my milk. I put my daughter in daycare to work because I had left my husband. HE had taken everything valuable, jewelry, TV, stereo, MY CAR, including my inheritance from my grandmother and sold it for cocaine.

Anything you do or any spell you may cast EVEN protection can come back threefold. Be your lover's shoulder to cry on but be careful in that as well. I wish you the best in this truly heartwrenching situation, however I would seek peace and guidance for yourself before I did anything for anyone else.

Blessed be sister you will be in my thoughts.

[Mithrea]

((((((Chelle)))))))))

[Xander67]

You know, its guys like Chelle's ex husband that really Irk me,
Im a guy, IM not perfect, Ive done some things that I am not proud of.. I have hurt people unintentionally because of my fears!

but One thing that I could never do, is to do the things that CHelle's ex did... that is terrible...

Chelle, you can take comfort in the fact that the Goddess will bless you and she will give him the fruits of his labors!

Sorry, I just felt I had to put my 2 cents in! :)

[ChelleOfShadows]

Thank you! I wish I had known of this site back then when things were truly dark. I know the support would have made my life much better. However the Goddess has blessed me and has allowed me the peace and healing I needed so badly.

In honesty I was just trying to make a point that even the people we love can lie to us and deceive us. Also, it can be very dangerous for the person casting the spell when it is for another.

All I can really say is take very careful care sister and remember you can only believe half of what you hear second hand!

[WandererInGray]

*hugs for Chelle*


Amber,

*ponders how to say this*

I'm glad to hear that he's finally taken the girls in for counseling, because quite frankly, his reluctance to take *any* kind of action against his wife was starting to worry me.
Sure those girls would be tramautized by seeing their mother arrested, but in the long run is that one time incident any worse that having to go through the fears and worries and stresses over and over and over again.

*shakes head*

I just want to say, don't be so wrapped up in this guy that you don't see signs if they are there. Be wary and even cynical if need be, since as Mithrea has said numerous times, you don't really know what is going on.

*smiles and hugs* I'm hoping the best for you, no matter what.

[Amberleigh]

Hiya everyone

....... and to those of u in the US happy 4th of July for yesterday. Sorry I have not responded but I have been very busy at work and only have net access
at work.

The update is that the girls went for councelling today and my bf was also called in first and then after the two girls had been in. He says that
the councellor told him that there are issues with the girls and especially the younger one - stuff from school and stuff like that, anyway she has
requested that the mother comes in and sees her as well. The mother is still in hospital and has been diagnosed with anorexia and drug dependancy
compounded by acute depression. She is being councelled and also still under observation, we will know on Monday when she will be released from
hospital. The other good thing here is that she has a job. Her mothers boyfriend owns a company and they have given her a mornings only job - she is
a qualified bookkeeper. So that will also help towards her getting back on her feet and working on gettin her life back together.

So I am hoping that this is all positive things.

I have decided against doing any form of magick other than doing meditation for myself to keep tranquility in my home and being able to be strong
for my bf and his girls. I feel that is is all stuff that needs to worked out, and is all stuff that we all need to deal with to grow and develop.

Talking about it to you guys has really helped me - it has helped me to see things from a different perspective - through the eyes of a stanger and also
has gone along way in keeping me grounded and enabling me to remain balanced. Thanks so much ... please keep your comments and advice coming.



Xander67......

You know I dont like the concept of marriage and so I dont really know much about marriage or divorse laws for that matter, I have never been married
and dont plan to marry either, but it seems I am about to learn all about them in anycase!

Yes I agree with the magick thing and he was the one that initially asked me I did not offer. I was hesitant about it and that is why I did ask. So you are
all totally and utterly correct on your views on this and I am rather relieved cause I feel the same way. I am am buring candles for tranquillity and
strength for me and I will just be there for him when he needs me The rest he needs to work out for himself. He also needs to grow.

We are defiantley working towards making the changes in the environement and I really cant wait and am being very impatient - maybe what I need to
learn here is patience, I just hope it happens soon cause it affects me and also my son.

Yes it does help thanks

Grey .....

Thank you grey for you wishes and I am positive that it will work out, I just worry about stuff .. guess I get too close. We are both working hard towards
making this all happen but at the same time making it as smooth as possible. I am quite excited about the soon to be family I must tell you. I have been
cooking for them while the mother is in hospital - he tells them that a friend is cooking. Yesterday he got them to call me to thank me, and they gave me
requests of what kinda food they wanted, it was quite moving talking to them. They have crept into my heart. The elder one did very very well at school
this term she is in grade 7 and my bf was so proud of her and also felt so proud of her. He talks about them all the time and so I feel like I know them
already.


Lorin .....

Thanks for thinking about me. He does look after me and is very adamant about giving as much as he takes. I earn a very lousy salary and he helps me
out financially. he has also been my moral support in terms of my son. My son is living with his father at the moment he has been for the last 3 years -
I felt that he needed his dad more than me and he and his dad wanted to be together. Anyway my son wants to come back and live with me next year
and my bf is giving me alot of support in terms of this, i also miss my son and want him back with me, but I also want what is best for him. Also recently
my sister and her husband and children were attacked in their home by 4 armed men. I called him in a state and he rushed away from work to come
and be with me and console me. He calmed me down and spoke to me and just hugged me better.

So he does do as much for me. he also give me so much love - love like I have never had from anyone else before, he makes me feel very special.

He has been spending alot of time with my son who is here on vacation and it like a family and it is really so cool. He and my son get on so well and
that makes me very happy as well.


Chelle ......

I have to start off with .... {{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Chelle}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}} thank you for sharing this story with me ... it all helps to keep me grounded and better
equipped to deal with what is happening in my life at the moment.

Yes I know that there is always a flip side to every single story and I keep on trying to understand her side of it. I too have been on the otherside of the
story, so I can also comiserate with you on this.

You know it is strange how things work out. When I was 6 months pregnant with my son, I was being cheated on - and the other woman was a friend of
mine. She was already sleeping with my bf and still had the cheek to ask me if she could be the babies godmother! I was away on vacation with my
parents and she stayed in my apartment with him - I got to see all her stuff in my home - it was an awful betrayal. Then I told him to leave and he went
and stayed with her but came back after two weeks. I was scared, lonely and very young and
I took him back - he gave me an STD and I ended up in hospital for 2 weeks - my unborn baby almost died. I promised myself then and there that I would never
whillingly get invovled with anyone who was not 100% single. When I first met Anthony there was a kinda connection that I have never felt befor, we
met at a party and it was as if I had known him all my life it was like we fitted together like two pieces of a puzzel. Then he told me he was seperated but
still lived and home and I was devestated. I immediately stopped seeing him but he would not let it be and he pursued me for two weeks before I gave
in and stated seeing him. It took me a long time to work through this issue. the thing is that I feel that we need to be together - we just fit together so well.

I want to believe him ... and I think I do ... although I do keep the reality in the back of my mind that he could be doing what you ex did to you. My bf does
not bad mouth his "future ex" but I get to hear the stories. I feel her energy on him and it is not nice. I can see it all over his energy. I also see the
resentment that boils from him when he talks about her. I could be seeing this cause I want to see it, but it what my instinct tells me. I do think that
there are underlying things that I might not know about. We do communicate and talk alot, about all kinds of things. I also had an aunt who was alot
like my bf's ex and I see all the same patterns - he tells me arbitory stuff and it all slots into place, she did all the barbituates and the overdoses and
the forging scripts - even having sex for scripts, then one day she gassed herslf in her car, I watched her destroy herself and we were all powerless
to help her, sometimes I feel like this is happening all over again in terms of my bf ex . But yes I know I still have not seen it first hand.

He and I are both hoping that getting caught like this will help in that she will get the councellign that she needs and will then be able to get on with her
life. There are positive things as well like the fact that she is now getting a job. I honestly feel that she has really narrowed her life, because she has not
had sufficient stimualtion. I have also told my bf a few home truths in terms of her. He is a very controlled person and likes things done in a particular
way. I think that she allowed him to control her and I have told him this and that he has created what she is. I do not blame her at all and the things is
that neither does he. He understands that everything has two sides, and that he has contributed to her "illness" intially he was very taken aback when I
told him this but we have spoken about it alot and he understands that this is the reality of it and is taking responsibility for his part in it.

I think it was very cruel what ur ex did 2 you. I know the pain of being seperated from a small baby - I had to go back to work when my son was 7 weeks
old and I cried for days - I can just imagine how you felt. I too had to work cause his father was not working and was also taking drugs - nothing as
serious as cocaine thank heavens! So how do you and your ex's girlfriend get on now? who got custody of the children?

I sure hope that you were able to prove all the lies that were told, and also that your children did not beleive the lies. The thing is that when this case
goes to court my bf intends to get her medical records as evidence that he should be awarded custody of the children so I dont think that he could lie
about that. So far this year she has had a bladder operation, something removed from her colon, she was heading to have half her colon removed and
my bf insisted that she get a second opinion and the specialist freaked that the first op on the colon had been performed. She then had corrective
surgery on her ureatha. Then they found a blockage in her kidney and she went for lazer on that and they also did MIR scans incase she had a pinched
nerve in her back cause they felt the pain she was complaining about could not be from her kidneys. Then when she would not get outta bed or function
in anyway they did open her and they found two small lumps on her kidney and the one was begnin but the other was not really malignant but was
something they felt they needed to watch. I feel that with the power of her mind she making herself sick and I really hope she gets well soon and gets off
this self destruction she has chosen. Her eatin disorder and pill consumption is not gonna help her kidneys much lets face it.

I agree with you on the whole spell thing and as you will see about I have decided not to do anything but by there in the physical world, for him and his
girls.

You are a very brave and strong person and I respect the fact that you have grown and yes it does help so much to have a place like this where you
can find support and advise it does make things so much easier to deal with. It is hard to deal with stuff when you are too close to it and it really
helps having people who are prepared to advise you and talk to you about these kinda things.

If you dont mind me asking ... how long ago did this happen to you?

The Goddess also came into my life when things were very dark and she showed me that no-one was gonna make me happy I had to get up off
my sorry arse and do it myself. Find the things that were wrong and fix them, and it has made me a much better person and a much happier person
I too found the peace and healing that I needed.

I am taking care thank you and I am keeping myself grounded. You too take care of you

Blessed be to you too and thanks for your thoughts and you too will be in mine.

{{{{{{{Chelle}}}}}}}}}

Kati .....

Well the girls are in counselling at long last *breaths a sigh of relief* and it seems that it was really needed for the younger girl. This is all headed for
the divorse courts and I just feel they need to be councelled before war is declared so that they are strong enough to deal with it. I also felt that it
would have been better to get her arrested for forging the script but maybe he was right in dealing with it without too much fuss. Now she is getting
the help she needs and the girls are not being traumatized.

According to the councellor the eldest one does not seem to think that anything is wrong and that kinda rings warning bells for me. I am seeing him
tonight and we will discuss all of this.

I am trying hard not to be too wrapped up in him and tis is also why I am talking to people about it so that I can keep an open mind and look for signs
that all is not fine, I am way too cynical to start and so alot of this has been on my mind in anycase, so I am being wary as well. And yes your right
I dont really know all the facts ... I know his version of the facts and that will most definately not be the same as her version of the facts.

Thanks for your wishes though.


Well once again thanks everyone and it really is helping me alot talking to you guys. But my son is pacing he wants to go home. We are off to the
movies tonight. I hope everyone has a really great weekend.

Amber

[ChelleOfShadows]

((((((((((Amber))))))))))))) First let me say I am thankful you have made the decisions you have. I have always been fearful of using magick with or for anyone where there were so many negative energies involved and I was truly worried for you!!

So, I guess to answer your questions I should start at the beginning, I am an Air Force Brat and I was raised by my parent's parents until High School. I was extremely lucky and blessed in that both Grandmothers were witches and friends who led me on my path from birth. One was Cherokee and the other Irish, so while I was sometimes confused, I also has a wonderful and educational childhood. I took an active part in my first ritual at 4. So I have lived a life in the path of the craft for years, I just never knew (maybe since I never had a computer) places like this site existed.

When I met my husband he was everything I ever wanted. AND he not only knew I was a witch, he loved when I shared power with him or let him watch a ritual. He encouraged me. We lived together for a couple of years before we got married when I found out I was pregnant with our oldest son! He has, I have found out, cheated on me throughout our whole marriage. When our second son was born he asked if we could have both boys christened while his brother was in FL from CA. I thought nothing of it, it would allow a baptismal certificate in church records naming godparents if something ever happened to he and I.

Shortly after my second son was born I discovered I had kidney stones and underwent one operation to get the stone blocking my kidney and then the ultrasonic bath where they busted up the rest of them. He decided and told me that God was punishing me for being a witch and he took everything out of the house even candles just for looks and broke it all up and burned my wands and my ritual broom. Well here I was one toddler and an infant and just out of the hospital. I was stupid and I stayed. We eventually made up and I practiced as I could in secret. Please know even though their mothers and my mom's father were all witches neither of my parents practice or use their gifts. I had nowhere to turn without getting an I told you so!

I went to the hospital one night in late September 1998, I had to drive myself and the boys, he was out with "his friends" and I was passing another stone. They ran a pregnancy test which is normal and it came back positive. They sent me home there is nothing they would do. The next day I had surgery, they ran a tube from my kidney to my bladder, that way I would not pass the stone and possibly cause a misscarriage. I was on a lot of antibiotics during the pregnancy and had weekly ultrasounds. My daughter was born May 28, 1999. The day I went in for my c-section he couldn't be found and I didn't see him until I had been home for 3 days. My oldest friend flew down from TN to stay with me. He left immediately after he packed. When he came home 3 weeks later I had had two of the 5 operations I was going to need. I had a hernia from the baby because everytime she would touch the tube it was painful and I would literally push her away to the other side. I had the other 3 after he moved back in. I really didn't have a choice, I could not work full time. I went back to work when my daughter was 6 weeks old. I had too he had run off again for a week.

One day in mid-July 1999, I came home from work and my neighbor was out so my oldest son opened the door while I chatted with her. My husband had dropped me off at work and we had all walked home. Just a couple of blocks. My neighbor told me that my husband had sold my car, while I was freaking a woman pulled into my driveway and confronted me as to how terrible I was to my husband and my children. I was in shock, I was teaching at a private school and had my daughter in the classroom with me and the boys were both in the same school. So when she accused me of throwing them in daycare I flipped. When she said I neglected them even my neighbor went off. I am so OVER protective it embarrases my boys. I was only working cause he wouldn't keep a job or spent his whole paycheck when he had one. At that time my sons came out of the house saying we had been robbed. EVERYTHING of value was gone. TVs. VCR, Playstaion etc..... The phone rang he must have forgotten that I said, and it was my mother asking why I had closed my savings account. It was the money my grandmother had given me that had come from an insurance policy, only $1500 but it was mine, I had stupidly put it a joint account. Instead of openeing a new account.

I came to at the hospital while my mother was raving that wouldn't someone help me! I spent three days there while my parents packed up mine and my kids stuff and took them home with them. I lost my job and found a new one a better one. I lived with my parents until they went back up north and they have allowed me to live in their Condo rent free I pay utilities only. They come down for Dec, Jan, Feb. every winter. The rest of the time they are in NC.

My husband is in jail awaiting trial for two counts of first degree murder. http://www.naplesnews.com/01/05/naples/d635712a.htm
THE NEWSPAPER ARTICLE..... we won't go there.

I have allowed the boys to see him once a month for a half an hour. I have full custody, I will keep full custody he has agreed to give up all parental rights. My daughter has no idea who Daddy is, but Pappaw and Nana are great, mom flies down for a few weeks in the summer and we take mini vacations with them. The divorce papers will be filed the day his trial is over and he is either aquitted or sentenced, while I don't love him, I will not allow my actions to be used against him which is what his lawyer has advised could happen if I finish the divorce now. That I filed because I knew or thought he was guilty.

I shared everything with him and allowed him to lead me astray which came back on me threefold. He abused my power and my beliefs, he banished my magick and destroyed things which were generations old and full of energy and power going back over 300 years (one of my wands, a staff, a prayer stick) and it came back on him threefold. I just thank the Goddess I survived it.

I have no idea how a thread you started asking for advice has ended up with my life story (strongly abbreviated... I have had a good life otherwise) but there you have it.

So you see Amber the one thing that always struck me was this if the wife doesn't know about the girlfriend then we already know he is blatantly lying to the wife, what makes the girlfriend any more special? However it will all be ok in the end because if it is not ok it isn't the end!!!

Blessed be sister!

[Twilight Garden]

Hmm. It's been a while since I've been on my computer. We just moved and everything was chaotic. We got the computer up and running finally.

I'm really glad your lover got his girls into counseling.

I understand, to a certain extent, what you are going through. My husband was divorced already when we began dating. He has primary custody of his eight year old daughter from the marriage. So his little girl lives with us. When my husbands ex learned that her current husband was being stationed in Germany she decided to step back into the little girl's life. She tried to get primary custody of the little girl to take her to Germany. It was a rediculous, very ugly battle. She used the little girl in numerous ways. She told the little girl to be bad for us to try to break up my husband and myself. She told the little girl that she was going to go into court and tell the judge things that would make her dad look bad so that she could win her fight. We put the little girl in counseling when she told us what all her mom was doing to her. Her mom tried to get a court order to keep us from being able to put the little girl in counseling. Then when that didn't work, the mom tried "playing counselor" to try to learn what little girl was telling the counselor. It was very stupid.

These are just a few examples of what she did to the little girl and why I say I understand your concern for your lover's little ones. Kids can get scars from messy divorces, but they also can bounce back rather easily if they are looked after (like counseling). It's hard to be a witness to what they are going through.

With my husband's little girl, I took on the role of big sister and through the years eased my way into step-momming her. I didn't want to be seen as a threat to their relationship either, but it's up to HIM to reassure his kids and listen to them and their needs, and in turn teach them to respect his own needs. When we first started dating, my husband would save the first weekend of every month to just be with his daughter. I didn't come around on that weekend, we didn't go on any dates, it was reserved only for his daughter. I had to respect that. Gradually I began to come over on their special weekend to visit, but if we wanted to do anything, it had to include the little girl. It's little things like that, that make kids still feels special when daddy gets a new "friend".

I hope things continue to look up in this area of your life. I did have one question... I tried reading through the thread and don't remember reading about it... Does the (future -ex) wife know that her husband is going through with the divorce?

Good Luck
*LM

[Grey]

If more men never learned the power of lies (or atleast thought it a weakness) we would all be better off. (yes even the rest of us males) things seem to be going fairly well all in all we'll just hope it keeps up. :wave:

(we need a toasting-like a drink- smilie)

Best of luck and may all of Asgard smile on you.

[Xander67]

Raises My Mug of Ale in the air and shouts!

HERE HERE!!!

Well Said Grey!

[Amberleigh]

Hi all

Sorry I have not responded for a while but things have been incredibly stresseful and tense.

Ant's wife killed herself yesterday ......

On Saturday both he and I were feeling very jittery and stressed. We had been to a friends of mines house for a braai (bbq) and we both just sat around stressing .... talking about what to do should she actually get it right to kill herself. She came outta hospital last tuesday and has been going downhill in a big way since then. He has been leaving message after message for the shrink and he has not responded. He was gonna start trying to get her institutionalised.

We left the braai at about 5 and Ant dropped me at home and he went home. Apprently she had gone to sleep at 12 when he left and had only gotten up again at 3:30. Ant says she even ate alittle supper and then she went to sleep again at about 7:00. He was waiting for the girls to go to sleep and then a neighbour came round and he called me to tell me he was gonna be there abit later and I was getting real tense but did'nt really say much. Then he arrived and it was bitterly cold and we just chatted and he was very distracted and stressed and so was I. He normally leaves my house at about 11:30 when he comes over and at about 10:40 he said no that he needs to go home now. He called me when he got home and everything was fine.

At about 12:15 I woke up and throught my phone was ringing and it was'nt I went back to sleep but was very jittery. Then my phone rang at about 1:20 and it was Ant he was hysterical and she was dead. He says that when he got home she was basically still in the position that he had left her in and was very fast asleep. He says he got into bed and was just drifting into sleep at about 12:15 and he heard her making an awful noise and he woke up - he says that it sounded like she was just taking in loads and loads of breath but not breathing out and that she was gasping for breath. He woke up and tried to wake her up and then tried to ressucitate her - he called 911 and they spoke him through cpr and sent someone he just held her and she died in his arms. When the paramedics came they did all kindsa things to ressucitate her but there was nothing and they declared her dead. they found a bottel in her hand that had contained a whitish fluid - we dont know what it was that she actually took. The girls woke up when the paramedics arrived and so they got to see their mother dying. He composed her and then let the girls come in and say good-bye to her - they were hysterical - those poor little girls how could she be so selfish to do that to her own children!!!!!!!

The paramedic stayed awhile cause they stayed to watch the girls and then he called her mother and she came over as well. The cops also came and Ant says that they interrogate him big time but they checked out the whole scene and have booked it as no foul play and no investigation is being opened. They took away all her pills and stuff including the bottel they found in her hand. Ant sent the girls away with the granny. the mortuary van came and they body bagged her Ant was hsyterical with this and they had wanted to take her clothes off but he had made them leave them on. They then took her away. I think outta all this the things that are haunting him the most is the pain the girls are going through and how brave they are being and also having to see her being dragged out in a body bag! He was totally finished!

He called me when the cops and everyone had gone and I went through to him. We layin on the girls bed and I held him while he cried. He was clinging to me and made me promise never to leave him. He was in such a state. It was really wierd for me to be in that house with all her stuff around me. I sms'd one of my friends (I live on her property) to tell her and she immediately called me back. She had such a strange feeling on Saturday night as well and had kept her cell phone next to her and had carried her cell with her all the time. He went to go and pick up the girls from the granny and I went home.

My mind was racing like you wont believe. I spent the afternoon doing chores and watching the grandprix and stuff like that. They came round at 6pm we had decided that it would be better for the girls not to sleep in the house last night. He had explained to them that I was there to be with them and that I wanted to adopt them. He told Jamie that he and I have been friends for quite a while. The girls were quite excited about the fact that I wanted to be there for them and that they were gonna come and sleep at my house. Jamie wanted to know who was gonna adopt him. He says that he just smiled and then looked at him and said oh so you've been adopted already!

They arrived and I was feeling very jittery and pacing up and down cause I did not know where to start. I gave them big hugs when they came in. they are such brave little girls. Jamie is on the scholar patrol and he was calling people to take over her duties and then she started to cry and when she cried then Sammie cried as well, and so did Ant and I. I got hold of Sammie and I just held her and hugged her. When Jamie was off the phone I held her to and hugged her and then the tears were over. I worry abit about this. I made them some dinner and they ate that without any problems. We sat and chatted and they were being very affecionate to me. Jamie's nails were all ragged and Ant had noticed that earlier in the day and told her to ask me to sort it out for her. Sammie had asked me to read them a story. When I was washing dishes she came and stood with me and was chattin away to me and telling me that had happened to them during the day. She had also asked if she could help me do the dishes .... I said she could do the drying but then realised that all my dishcloths were soakin in bleach. So I told her to just stand there and talk to me. She came with this little book where you fill in your friends details and stuff like that and she dashed to show it to me when she got there. It was new that had only gotten it that day. On the one page she had filled in all her mothers details and then said that her mommy was in heaven and that she loved her. On the the page opposite it she had written - I cant handel it..... that made me cry.

After dinner the girls asked me all my details so that they could fill me into the book as well which I thought was really a good step.

We were all sitting on the bed and the girls were in the pajamas and I gold hold of Jamies hands and gave her a manicured and put cream all over the 3 of them, no-one had ever doen this kinda thing for her befor and she got quite emotional about it. In SA cause it is so dry we use alot of creams and Sammie's skin especially was so dry. I am always on at B to put cream on his face and also Ant - its gotten to a stage where I am continually creaming someone - it has become a joke between Ant and my son and now it seems the girls as well. So I was sitting doing Jamie's nails and Ant and Sammie were lying on the bed and Sammie was reading to us. They are very excited about the prospect of coming with to Botswana for a holiday in September and we were looking at photo's and stuff. I was tellin them all about it. They cant wait for my son to come and live permanently

The plan had been for Ant to sleep with them in my bed and I would sleep in my sons bed I just felt they needed the reassurance of him being near them. We put the girls to sleep and were chatting, basically planning stuff. I looked in Sammies book and the page that she had filled in for me was gone and I was abit worried about it and showed that to Ant.

We were chatting alto about where to go from here and we are gonna get a house and all move into the house as soon as possible. They are sleepin at my house again. They were very enthusiastic when Ant told them that. So we emptied a shelf in my sons cupboard for their stuff, they seemed to really like that idea

The girls slept well and through I had expected bad dreams and disturbed sleep.

The girls woke up chatting and giggling and were very cheerful and fine. I am insiting on coucelling and they are not been given any choices on that one - I will definately enforce it. Ant has agreed to go to councelling as well I think he desperately needs it - maybe even more so than those girls. Jamie is insisting on going back to school tomorrow <@@> she has tests and things happening this week and does not want to miss stuff, so we will see how she is tonight and then decide. Ant thinks it will be good for her - I am not sure but if she wants that then we can do that. She seems to want to get on with her life.

After they left I was cleaning up and I came across the page that had come outta Sammies book - it was on the dresing table. She had folded it in half and written my name and drawn all hearts on it. I opened it up and all the stuff that they had written was there but she had also written I note for me saying... "I like you Sandra you are nice" - so of course that was me tears ...... but atleast I know they have accepted me.

So thats that..... so in one weekend my entire life changed, it is so wierd and I am not sure that I have come to terms with all of this .... it has been on the back boilers for a while now but the reality of it is something else.....

So there u have it. An ending and a beginning.

Thank you all so much for all your input and it was a great help. I am glad that I did not do one single magical thing at all cause now I would be carring so much guilt. I know in my heart that my consience is clear.

I think that it was all destined that I would meet up with him cause it all happened in very strange ways and now it seems that I desperately needed to be there for him and his girls.

One stage of my life has ended and a new stage has began. Wish me luck .....

blessings

[Danustouch]

Those poor children. How horrible. I hope that the counseling gives them all what they need.

[WandererInGray]

*nods in agreement with Danus*

Hopefully they are young enough to recover from something like this. I hope that Ant as well, will go to counselling and that it helps him sort through all this. How very sad and very hard.

*smiles and hugs Amber* I wish you the best of luck with this, Hon...it's going to be a long hard road for you, but seems that the end results will be worth it.

Blessings. :)

[Phoenix Blue]

Amber, don't be afraid to go see someone yourself. . . **soft smile** especially if you feel in any way guilty or responsible for what Ant's wife did. Depression in and of itself can be debilitating. . . in a way, I don't blame her for taking the only way out left that she could see. But she was still an adult, and she alone made the decision to take her own life.

[Xander67]

It always helps to talk to someone.

(((AMBER))))

Hope the Children are ok

[Amberleigh]

thanks every one

Things are very emotional still. They sleep at my house at night although it is my late shift at work tonight and so I will be sleeping at their house. They got tense when they thought I would not be coming round tonight. The little one is clinging to me like you wont believe. She has become my shadow. Jamie is feeling alittle stressed and guilty. She is responding to the way that I am treating them and what I am doing to them and then resents her mother for never doing that and then feels guilty.

They start councelling on Friday and I think we all need it alot.

It is gonna be long and emotional but I am very committed to this and have tried to explain that to them as well. They are such gorgeous little girls how could she let them down like that!


Danustouch.......

Yes those poor poor girls and they are lovely little girls at that. I think that Sammie the little one will heal quickly .... affection and attention will do that she is a very bubbly little girl and happy go lucky - she is very much like my son. Jamie on the hand is gonna be more difficult. She is a very introverted girl and keeps alot inside herself - she is very responsible and cause of her mothers illness, she basically had to be, now she has to learn how to be a child again and that is gonna be very difficult. At the moment I am spending alot of time with the Sammie but I plan to take on Jamie soon and do girl things with just her and me,a t the moment she needs her dad more. I need her to open up to me and talk. Her and her dad had a very good chat last night and that is good cause she is startin to open up. She insisted on going to school today so we let her go.

The funeral is on Thursday councelling starts Friday. We are going to visit my nana (granny) on Sunday and she will give them so much love and acceptance and I think all that kinda thing along with the councelling will go a long way to help them heal.

I am giving them as much love an affection and attention as I possibly can. It is very taxing BUT if it is what they need it is worth every second. I am falling very deeply in love with those two little girls.


WandererInGray.......
Well I think that with alot of love and understanding from Ant myself and also Barrett (my son) they will heal. they just need stability, security and love at the moment.

We are all gonna go into councelling me also. I am gonna need to learn how to help them. Also alot of stuff that happened to me as a child has come to the surface with this and to help those girls I also need to help myself.

It is very sad and very hard for all of us.

thanks for the hugs, yes the end of it is gonna be worth ever bump and tear. I want those girls to walk away from this stronger and able to deal better with their lives and their paths. The are quite strong little girls and I hope that love and understanding will pull them through it all.


Phoenix_Blue....

Totally I am gonna go and see someone - if not anything other than to make sure that, how I respond to my new daughters is the correct way and also how to channel my energy. At the moment I am just surrounding them with love, but there will need to more soon.

No I dont blame myself for what she did. She has been on that path for more than 2 years and I have only known Ant for 6 months. She did not know about me and I know that she had given up totally even before he met me.

I have suffered with depression before and have a deep understandin of it. BUT at the end of the day you have to want to get better and you have to make yourself happy - no-one else can do that for you. She no longer wanted to live and she had been self destructing for a very long time.

I do blame her - cause that is not a way out ... she will only have to come back and relive the pain until she learns. I know that I managed to get myself back from that hole so you can do it. Suicide is not an option ever and it is so cruel to do that to the people that love you. What kinda legacy has she left her children?

I do feel pity for her as well but mostly resentment that she was so selfish that she could not sort herself out if nothing other than for the sake of her children, at the moment I feel very hard towards that cause of the pain I see on those little girls faces, but I know that time will soften that.

Yes she was an adult and she made her own decisions and gets to pay the price at the end of the day, but she has hurt her children so much.

There was alot of neglect and it is hurting me so much as I am uncovering it. The neglect was on an emotional level, there was no affection, and not that much attention outside of school work. They got affection from their dad but especially being girls needed some from their mother as well.

But I know that it will fade and we will all heal as a family and move forward.



Xander67......
Yes indeed it does and I will definately be doing that. I was abondoned by my father when I was 13 and that pain is now surfacing as well and I think it seems that for me to be able to help my daughters I am gonna have to help myself too ......

Thanks for the hugs ....

There is alot of damage not all of it her death. They did get to know that she overdosed - they were there and they were there when the paramedics came and they know what she did, they saw her body and said good-bye. All that that the little one could say was that she was so small and that she looked like a child, the older one just mentioned that she was so white and pale and that she did not look real. I think that with enough love and encouragement they will get better.

thanks everyone for your thoughts.

Blessings
Amber