Confused

[moonwolff]

Hello everyone I am in a state of confusion, and dismay. I have finally been able to buy some wiccan books and I now have Wicca for the Solitary Pra ctioner and To ride a silver Broom stick. I have been reading the solitary practitioner first and am finding out some things that should have been obvious to me. Like the power of nature and doing our part to keep our mother earth healthy and clean. Now comes the part of confusion, I work at a gas station where I am an attendant, we are full serve and we try not to polute and are very persistant on cleaning any spills. I happened to notice today as it was raining all the gas and oil rings on the pavement. Some from leaky cars and some from us dripping gas to small to clean up. Now for my confusion. Am I being all I can as a wiccan knowing that there is polution possibly caused by me in the form of spills, and in the form of helping pollute the air and increasing the green house gasses. Because I make a living off of distributing fuel to the comsumers that drive( low milage gas hogs that are part of the problems today) am I a part of the problem and therefor goiung against my beliefs and ideas. I am dismayed by the fact that I did not see this and what if anything I can or should do. I like my job it pays well with full benefits, but can I live with the fact that I can't change what my job is and am involuntarilly going against what I believe.

Thanks
Any and all comments or advice will be appreciated.

[Devilfish]

Okay, first things first.
While the quality of Cunningham's work is somewhat debated in the community, that of Ravenwolf certainly is not. I do realise I'm opening a can of worms, but most tend to think her work is fiction at best, harmful at worst.
(Try reading this (http://www.ecauldron.com/opedtarnishedsilver.php) or this (http://wicca.timerift.net/ravenwolf.shtml) article if you want to know exactly what I mean. That last site has very, very good book reviews too)

Second (and I am sorry about my first point being so whiny) I understand your confusion and think it's a very interesting question.

For me, this goes back to one of the basic concepts of wicca: the concept of responsibility, which of course is very closely related to the Wiccan Rede. The Rede states that we are free to partake in those actions that do not cause harm. It doesn't say anything about what to do in situations that DO cause harm.

The concept of responsibility is actually as simple as it sounds; if you do harm, you are responsible for the backlash. If you feel like you can take it, there's nothing to worry about.

And I do believe nobody is perfect. Perfection, as we all know, is unattainable. You make a concious effort to clean up. That in itself is a magical act, an act of will. Other people chose to drive cars. That is their responsiblity. You chose to clean up what you can.

Okay, wicca ethics in a cramped nutshell, I know. But I think this is what it basically boils down to.

Good luck!

[Xentor]

Also, you want to be realistic. If your faith prevents you from making money, you won't last long in a country that thrives on capitalism. Some choose to battle that, but not all are able to, want to, or bother to.

As far as nature is concerned, I wish to be as environmentally friendly as possible. That means I am careful with what I buy and what I get to throw away, and I strive to better some situations but not all. I hope that me improving what I can, and someone else improving what they can, on the whole everything will improve.

So be aware of the problems, but avoid taking the weight of the world on your shoulders.

[Toby Stimpson]

I think being aware of issues is a good frist stepo...but I would be wary to become trapped by the guilt of it. After all, ALL Humans pollute in some way or another... it is in our nature to do so. Whether it be direct pollution or indirect. Our society and culture is based on changing the landscape to our will inorder to survive at the level that we are.

I'd be careful also to raise the bar and put environmentalism as a necessary part of Wicca. All religions worldwide place Nature as important because it is a part of God... or a creation of God. But as it was already mentioned, our society is derived from Capitalism... and capitalism is driven by competition. The environment cannot compete... and so it is sometimes conquered. But we all have a part in that, because everything is connected to capitalism. SO, you have to make decisions on what small measures you are doing to satisfy the guilty part of your conscience and leave it at that. I don't think anyone is expecting you to drop everything, especially your livlihood... being environmentally friendly is a little different than being an environmentalist. Environmentalists look at the issues and raise those in the public arena... being environmentally friendly is simply becing conscious of your own small part in the grander scheme.

[moonwolff]

Thank you all for your support. With your insights I think I may know now that I am doing all I can at work and am dilligent about cleaning up (enough to annoy the others I work with), and I can do things at home to offset anything I miss at work.

You are all wonderfull and thank you again

[Ben Gruagach]

The important thing is that you are thinking about it and you are trying. Wicca does not ask any of us to be martyrs.

[Lupabitch]

I'm reminded of a quote from Starhawk's The Earth Path that I really like:

Not everyone has the extra dollar for the organic tomatoes, or the time and space to garden. Bringing our lives into alignment with the earth should not become a burdensome, guilt-filled project, where we are in a constantly unshriven state of eco-sin. Instead, we can think of it as a gradual, joyful process, where we look for the choices we can make that will enhance our lives. If I walk to a meeting instead of driving, I can enjoy the sights along the way and my own increased health from the exercise. If I'm too tired or rushed one day to walk, I won't flagellate myself for driving. If I can't afford to replace all my light bulbs with compact fluorescents, I can replace one now, and one more each time I get a little extra money. (p. 36)

The thing to keep in mind is: do what you can. Starhawk herself admits a little later in that chapter that the fact that she uses airplanes to travel for speaking engagements does negate some of the green choices she's made; however, it's how she helps to get her views out there. Sure, you work at a gas station, but there are other things you can do.

While I take public transit to work every day, I still have a car (that I use minimally). However, I also compost all our kitchen scraps, I buy organic produce, and I use canvas shopping bags. These are just a few of the things that I I am able to do to have a greener lifestyle. I can't get rid of the car, and I can't afford to switch all my electricity to green sources such as wind power. But I can walk to the store instead of driving, I can recycle every scrap of paper and every plastic container that the local facilities take, and I can throw on an extra sweater instead of kicking the thermostat up.

It's not about what you can't do; it's about what you *can* do. Look to what you are capable of, and reevaluate every few months. If, down the line, you can find yourself in a better job, great! For a while when I was stuck with entry-level positions, I worked as a field and phone canvasser for an environmental nonprofit organization in Pittsburgh. But if that option isn't open to you, don't beat yourself up. As I said, do what you can, and if other opportunities arise, take them as you can.

[Lunacie]

I don't think I can add anything to what has already been posted. Good responses! :thumbsup:


eta: I just thought of something. Given the season and the drain on the environment, should a Pagan or Wiccan put up a lot of holiday lighting on his/her home that uses electricity for no good purpose? Or - is the act of celebrating this wonderful season with our neighbors a good enough reason to put up a few colored lights for a couple of weeks?

For myself, I'm going to put a few strings of colored lights on our lovely fir tree between the house and the street, but instead of leaving them up until New Year's, I'll take them down on the 26th (weather permitting - otherwise just unplug them).

[KeaErisdottir]

I happened to notice today as it was raining all the gas and oil rings on the pavement. Some from leaky cars and some from us dripping gas to small to clean up. Now for my confusion. Am I being all I can as a wiccan knowing that there is polution possibly caused by me in the form of spills, and in the form of helping pollute the air and increasing the green house gasses.

There is nothing in Wicca that makes you personally responsiblel for the way in which other people maintain their cars, or how your employer deals with spillage or runoff. To try and own that is folly. Do it at your own peril.


Because I make a living off of distributing fuel to the comsumers that drive( low milage gas hogs that are part of the problems today) am I a part of the problem and therefor goiung against my beliefs and ideas. I am dismayed by the fact that I did not see this and what if anything I can or should do. I like my job it pays well with full benefits, but can I live with the fact that I can't change what my job is and am involuntarilly going against what I believe. Then you quit. Period. Your conscience is conflicted about your job. It's that simple.

However, I reject the argument that fanatical environmentalism is a Wiccan belief.

[Ben Gruagach]

While it's pretty open to debate what constitutes "fanatical" environmentalism, it's not really surprising that there are many Wiccans who do consider environmental awareness to be part of their spiritual path. After all, in the Charge of the Goddess there is a section that says:
I who am the beauty
of the green earth and the white moon upon
the mysteries of the waters,
I call upon your soul to arise and come unto me.

For I am the soul of nature
that gives life to the universe.
From me all things proceed and unto me
they must return.

If the Wiccan Goddess is the "soul of Nature" then it seems logical that to honour Her we should strive to be environmentally aware at the very least, and work to preserve Her if we feel called to do that.

[Lunacie]

There is nothing in Wicca that makes you personally responsiblel for the way in which other people maintain their cars, or how your employer deals with spillage or runoff. To try and own that is folly. Do it at your own peril.

Then you quit. Period. Your conscience is conflicted about your job. It's that simple.

However, I reject the argument that fanatical environmentalism is a Wiccan belief.

I agree that we are not responsible for anybody but ourselves. Personal responsibility is a core tenet of Wicca, and of Paganism and Witchcraft in general. The key word there being "personal."

I think that Moonwollf (the OP) should not make a snap decision after reading one or two books about Wicca. Any book I've read on Wicca is as much (or more) about the author's own personal opinions as any kind of communal gnosis that we all should heed. I think more reading would be helpful, as would talking to other Wiccans (and online is how many begin to do that in this day and age), as well as doing some meditation and asking the gods for some guidance. This could be a life-altering decision and needs some careful thought before taking any action. We should never take any hasty action based on someone else's opinion.

I also would reject the argument that "fanatical environmentalism is a Wiccan belief" if I had seen anyone here make that argument. Did I miss something?

[KeaErisdottir]

I also would reject the argument that "fanatical environmentalism is a Wiccan belief" if I had seen anyone here make that argument. Did I miss something?

*shrug* Original post was eyeball deep in fanatical environmentalism. It is a fundamental premise of the post--working at a gas station somehow 'violates' Wicca. (We'll forget that it is impossible to 'violate' Wicca in this way.)

[KeaErisdottir]

While it's pretty open to debate what constitutes "fanatical" environmentalism, it's not really surprising that there are many Wiccans who do consider environmental awareness to be part of their spiritual path.

Something being part of one's spiritual path is not the same thing as it being part of the religion itself. Otherwise, we'd all have to be devotees of Eris, just because I happen to be.

And environmental awareness is not the same thing as getting wound around into contortions about where you work, and if that 'violates' the religion or not. If the OP feels that strongly, on a personal level, about working in a gas station, then the OP should exercise personal responsibility and find another job. Matters of Conscience and Religion do not always converge.


After all, in the Charge of the Goddess there is a section that says:
((snippage))
If the Wiccan Goddess is the "soul of Nature" then it seems logical that to honour Her we should strive to be environmentally aware at the very least, and work to preserve Her if we feel called to do that.

I'm not going to argue whether or not respecting nature is part of what we do. However, I find enabling extreme positions inferred from Cunningham and Ravenwolf to be destructive and enslaving. Wicca has no iron-clad doctrine about this, yet contorting The Charge to provide ready-made, iron-clad doctrine is no different than the chicaneries of TV Evangelists.

[Lupabitch]

There is nothing in Wicca that makes you personally responsiblel for the way in which other people maintain their cars, or how your employer deals with spillage or runoff. To try and own that is folly. Do it at your own peril.

Then you quit. Period. Your conscience is conflicted about your job. It's that simple.

However, I reject the argument that fanatical environmentalism is a Wiccan belief.

IMO, being concerned and trying to figure out where one stands on the current state of affrairs =/= fanatical. Then again, "fanatical" is a pretty subjective concept. For me, "fanatical" = the Earth Liberation Front.

[moonwolff]

I appreciate all of the discussion and I agree that I shouldn't use only a couple of books to decide on this. Actually I have decided that as a gas station attendant I am doing very little negative impacts to the environment, if I clean up spills I see and inform the customer of the condition of their vehicle. I actually am doing more to help the environment. I am still learning and am going on a trip to Borders books to purchase some more reading materials, I have to go to their website and find the books I would like them to order for me. I have looked at various posts and sites for wiccan literature and have a partial list. If someone has a book they like I would be happy to check it out and possibly purchase it.

Again thank everyone
Blessed Be

[Lunacie]

I appreciate all of the discussion and I agree that I shouldn't use only a couple of books to decide on this. Actually I have decided that as a gas station attendant I am doing very little negative impacts to the environment, if I clean up spills I see and inform the customer of the condition of their vehicle. I actually am doing more to help the environment. I am still learning and am going on a trip to Borders books to purchase some more reading materials, I have to go to their website and find the books I would like them to order for me. I have looked at various posts and sites for wiccan literature and have a partial list. If someone has a book they like I would be happy to check it out and possibly purchase it.

Again thank everyone
Blessed Be

Sounds like you're on the right track to me. :) Some people read one book on Wicca and are so convinced that now they know everything they'll ever need to know about Wicca that they never ask any questions or have a real discussion. Asking questions is a good thing. Without feedback from others I'd be stuck in my own head spinning around in circles and going nowhere.

You know best what interests you at this time, and you will get something from everything you read, as long as you do so with a critical eye and don't believe everything you read just because it made it into print. There is a lot of information that seems very contradictory and will certainly confuse you if you aren't asking questions as you go along. Some of what you learn may be that some people are just full of themselves and know practically nothing about Wicca, but if you sift through it all and find the common threads and decide what makes the most sense to you, you will do fine.


Oh, I think I forgot to say :wave: Welcome to the "Paths: Wicca" forum. Hope you'll hang out with us often and ask more questions that lead to more discussion.

[Ben Gruagach]

I appreciate all of the discussion and I agree that I shouldn't use only a couple of books to decide on this. Actually I have decided that as a gas station attendant I am doing very little negative impacts to the environment, if I clean up spills I see and inform the customer of the condition of their vehicle. I actually am doing more to help the environment. I am still learning and am going on a trip to Borders books to purchase some more reading materials, I have to go to their website and find the books I would like them to order for me. I have looked at various posts and sites for wiccan literature and have a partial list. If someone has a book they like I would be happy to check it out and possibly purchase it.

Again thank everyone
Blessed Be

Be sure to check the Books section (http://mysticwicks.com/forumdisplay.php?f=20) here at MysticWicks. We have lots of discussions about good books!

[Lunacie]

*shrug* Original post was eyeball deep in fanatical environmentalism. It is a fundamental premise of the post--working at a gas station somehow 'violates' Wicca. (We'll forget that it is impossible to 'violate' Wicca in this way.)


Something being part of one's spiritual path is not the same thing as it being part of the religion itself. Otherwise, we'd all have to be devotees of Eris, just because I happen to be.

And environmental awareness is not the same thing as getting wound around into contortions about where you work, and if that 'violates' the religion or not. If the OP feels that strongly, on a personal level, about working in a gas station, then the OP should exercise personal responsibility and find another job. Matters of Conscience and Religion do not always converge.



I'm not going to argue whether or not respecting nature is part of what we do. However, I find enabling extreme positions inferred from Cunningham and Ravenwolf to be destructive and enslaving. Wicca has no iron-clad doctrine about this, yet contorting The Charge to provide ready-made, iron-clad doctrine is no different than the chicaneries of TV Evangelists.

Different perceptions, eh. I thought the Original Post was environmentally concerned, not fanatical.

Asking about Personal Responsibility to Personal Beliefs (based on Wiccan background) is not freaking about "violating" Wicca in some way.

I suggested that the OP do some further reading beyond the two authors that nearly everyone seems to check out first.

And I don't believe Ben's quote of a verse from The Charge was in any way saying that was a mandate of some environmental correctness. In fact, he seemed to be saying that it suggests an environmental awareness, and striving to preserve Mother Nature. What's bad about that?


Is your supply of :achillpils running low, might be time for a refill?

[Lupabitch]

I appreciate all of the discussion and I agree that I shouldn't use only a couple of books to decide on this. Actually I have decided that as a gas station attendant I am doing very little negative impacts to the environment, if I clean up spills I see and inform the customer of the condition of their vehicle. I actually am doing more to help the environment. I am still learning and am going on a trip to Borders books to purchase some more reading materials, I have to go to their website and find the books I would like them to order for me. I have looked at various posts and sites for wiccan literature and have a partial list. If someone has a book they like I would be happy to check it out and possibly purchase it.

Again thank everyone
Blessed Be

That's the spirit :) Sometimes the best moves we can make involve changing the system from within, even a little.

Two really good books for environmental paganism are Starhawk's The Earth Path (which I recommended earlier) and James Endredy's Ecoshamanism. The former is excellent for shifting your perceptions and awareness of the world to a greener "setting", and the latter is an excellent resource for activities and rituals to put these things into practice on a spiritual level. They don't tell you how to recycle or shop "green", but they are wonderful for placing yourself spiritually in a more environmentally-conscious pathway.

[Phoenix Blue]

Is your supply of :achillpils running low, might be time for a refill?
ADMIN MODE

This is unnecessary. It is okay to disagree; it is not okay to be disrespectful.

[Dawa Lhamo]

I dunno, I think that Wicca encourages thinking about our actions, the consequences of them, and our impact upon our world in multiple ways. But Wicca is not Jainism. We don't have a mandate not to harm anything ever. It is ultimately our responsibility to decide what actions we are or are not willing to take. ^_^

But awareness and responsibility doesn't mean that we have to do such and such or we can never do such and such else... it means that whatever we do do (or don't do), we own up to it, and we accept the consequences...Whatever else is personal interpretation.

I definitely see how environmental consciousness becomes important to many Wiccans, because it can naturally follow from a general consciousness of our actions in addition to how tied up the religion is with the natural cycles of the Earth. I would disagree that there is a mandate for us to be environmentalist, though. Or that there is a mandate for any kind of social or political action. ^_^

In any case, it looks like you've come up with a good solution to your personal quandry:
Actually I have decided that as a gas station attendant I am doing very little negative impacts to the environment, if I clean up spills I see and inform the customer of the condition of their vehicle. I actually am doing more to help the environment. Every business you go into, you're going to be faced with ethical or moral dilemmas sooner or later. It's just how life works. Sometimes staying and doing what you can is better than leaving on principle. Sometimes it's the other way 'round. It's always up to you to weigh the options and decide what you can live with. ^_^

[Lunacie]

I think it is often easier to make changes from the inside, as part of the work force or the management.