I need help getting my daughter to sleep

[NefertSatSekhmet]

I am absolutely at my wits end. My daughter is 6 years old and at least 3 or 4 times a week she just will not go to sleep, no matter what.

We do have a routine, she gets her night clothes on, brushes her teeth, says goodnight to the rest of the family, and then I tuck her in and read her a story. Some nights she falls right to sleep on the first book. But those 3 or 4 bad nights, I can read 4 or 5 books until my throat is hoarse and 2 hours after we started, she is still wide awake! At that point I have to leave her room, I get so frustrated with her.

I honestly don't know what to do. Right now it is nearly 10 o'clock and she is still awake. It makes getting her up for school in the morning a real pain as well.

Any advice?

[wolf]

One book, or one chapter of a longer book, and then bed. You do not, and should not, need to remain in the room with her until she falls asleep.

[NefertSatSekhmet]

The thing is, if I leave her in her room, she gets out of bed, goes back and forth to the bathroom 5 times, sneaks her toys into bed, and just basically plays about.

She shares a room with her brother, and the poor boy either gets in trouble for joining in on her playing or she keeps him awake and makes him grumpy as well.

She has never been able to just fall asleep on her own every night. I mean, it has only really been the last year that she stopped getting up in the middle of the night on a regular basis, but she still does wake up and get into bed with me on occasion.

Sleep has always been a struggle with her, and I just can't take it anymore.

[Lunacie]

Melatonin supplements helps some kids (and some adults too) to get to sleep. Give her a quarter of a tablet about an hour before bedtime, go through the usual routine, and see if it helps her to fall asleep.

I began giving half a tablet to my 9 year old granddaughter last year, and it does help on the nights when she just can't seem to fall asleep. Our therapist, without knowing we've tried it with one granddaughter, suggested giving a quarter of a tablet to the younger granddaughter when she's not able to relax and get sleepy.

Lots of links to Melatonin and Sleep here... http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=melatonin+for+sleep

[wolf]

Sleep has always been a struggle with her, and I just can't take it anymore.

Then don't.

You're the parent. Establish the rules and stick to them. If she gets up and gets into bed with you, put her back in her own bed. She's six, not two.

How far apart are the two kids? Can you adjust bedtimes to stagger them by about a half-hour?

Whatever you choose to do, be consistent.

[NefertSatSekhmet]

I don't think you can buy melatonin in the UK. Unless it has changed... I will have to check the health food store.

Any other herbal supplements that might work? I have tried chamomile tea be fore she goes to bed, but she doesn't really like it.

[Brigid Rowan]

Ok, so.....time to learn tough love. She -can- sleep though the night, and she will, with consistant, firm, unemotional (by that I mean you arent mad/yelling) discipline. What you need to do is recognize she is ONLY doing what you let her get away with doing. So it is time to reteach YOURSELF about what your expectations for her are.

Read some books on children and sleep. Educate yourself on what amount of sleep she needs. Read read read. Make a plan, write it down, be firm, and you and your SO be on the same wavelength. Whichever of you is more firm and steady may want to take over parenting duty at bedtime the first few days after the plan begins.

Explain to Miss Priss that times are a 'changin. Tell her the new rules, and the consequences. Explain she cannot grow and be healthy without sleep. Be factual, relaxed, and if she has a fit, at any point, remain factual and unemotionally charged. BE COOL, stay calm. Kids count it as a victory when they see their behavior is getting to you. Dont give her that victory.

As far as bedtime routine. One small book is enough (5 minutes, maybe 10 minutes of reading, max). Last sip of water, last potty time, and lights out. The whole affair should be 7-15 minutes total. Remind her the rules at bedtime are now no getting up, no playing, and everytime she does get up, one toy will be taken from the room and will be kept for the rest of the night and next day. Say it gently, and kiss her night night.

And then you leave. And go sit in a chair, right by the door.

If she gets up you stand up, pick her up, put her in bed. Say "You got out of bed, you now loose privledges to one toy for 24 hours." Pick a toy, and leave. Sit in your chair, put the toy in a basket. Repeat as many times as she gets up. You may be there 3 hours, and end up taking every toy. That is fine.

This may take a week. It will annoy you. But its better to be annoyed for a few nights, than have a small child running the show. And maybe have a reward system, the first week she goes to bed and doesnt get up AT ALL at night, she gets a special treat.

[NefertSatSekhmet]

Then don't.

You're the parent. Establish the rules and stick to them. If she gets up and gets into bed with you, put her back in her own bed. She's six, not two.

How far apart are the two kids? Can you adjust bedtimes to stagger them by about a half-hour?

Whatever you choose to do, be consistent.

We did stagger bedtimes, son goes to bed an hour later. Mebets bedtime is 7:30, Senebs is 8:30. When she goes to sleep good, it works really well. But when it gets to 9pm and she is still wide awake, I have to put the son to bed and hope for the best.

I feel like I am being consistent, but her response is never consistent. I do the same thing night after night, but some nights it works and other nights it doesn't. This has been the routine since school started in the fall. After 3 months, shouldn't she be settled in to the routine?

[Amethyst Rose]

I think that the lack of consistency is in how late you're willing to let her stay up, even if you're unaware you're doing it.

I would say read one story, and that's it. If she doesn't fall asleep after one story then, too bad, she'll have to learn how to fall asleep on her own. And I agree with punishments for getting out of bed unnecessarily.

I had to take away distractions when my son was younger....we went through a long period with no toys or books in his bedroom, only his bedtime toys (he sleeps with a handful of stuffed animals.)

I fully endorse the "you're the parent" statement.

[wolf]

I feel like I am being consistent, but her response is never consistent. I do the same thing night after night, but some nights it works and other nights it doesn't. This has been the routine since school started in the fall. After 3 months, shouldn't she be settled in to the routine?


Not if you are intermittently reinforcing bad behavior ... that makes it harder to extinguish, which is a fancy, psychology word for "make go away."

Follow Brigid's advice. It's right on the money.

[Willow Rosette]

Sticker charts for behavior work really well for my 5 year old. For example last week she had an awfull week at school and day care. So I told her this week if she brings home glowing notes every single day (or if I see she really tried hard) from both places she will get something special over the weekend. Sometimes it is picking something out at the dollar store, sometimes the movies....this time it is a parade and santa and a play thing going on saturday near us. So I have a chart I print up and every day she is good she puts a sticker in the box if she is bad I put a big red X in the box. It took a full week when I first started this to make it register. So maybe start with something simple like putting all her clothes in her clothes basket every night. Once she learns how the chart works then you can move on to something harder for her that she really has to work on. And I do the prize at the end of the week based on how much money I currently have and the weather. One of her favorite things to do is to have a day at the park (woo hoo its free).

Thats what works here, hope it helps.

[Against The Tide]

You sound like a really nice mum :) But she's getting older now and she can't be with you all night every night. Explain to her that she's growing up and you can't treat her like a young child anymore (stress how proud of her that shes growing up and that it doesn't mean end of motherly love/care for her). Make a hot milky drink - horlix, that chocolate malty stuff, heck - calpol works well on those nights they just *won't* sleep. Get her to read a story to you? The exertion will tire her out but help develop her literacy skills.

[ladyalpha]

Something I noticed is that you didn't mention what your doing before the night time routine. Is she watching tv before hand? Or playing games or something mentally stimulating? Perhaps 30 minutes before bedtime you could try playing soothing music (nothing that will cause dancing, or getting wild) to get her mind and body in the groove that it is time to calm down would work for her.
Or put her in her bed 30 minutes earlier than usual and let her have wind down time by herself. Let her read a book in bed and then after the 30 minutes it is lights out. (You may want to give her a 5 minute warning before her time is up, so she doesn't use being in the middle of a page as an excuse to get more time).

I do agree that you should not be reading and reading and reading on those nights. Set a limit to what you will do and stick with it. If you want to only read one book at bedtime, then that is all you read. If you want to go with two, then go with that. But, do it every night, no matter if she is falling asleep or not.
It really does sound to me that she has gotten used to you being in the room with her when she goes to sleep. And you getting frustrated and leaving her on those nights that she can't wind down, causes her to have more problems going to sleep. So you have to break that habit also. That will make this process harder, but it can be done. You just have to keep your temper in check and continue to do the same thing every night, the same way each time, in order for her to get it.

Also, I agree..if you don't want her in bed with you at night, then you have to put her back in bed when she comes in. Make sure that it isn't due to a nightmare or a storm, which will have to be talked about. If it is just because she feels like sleeping with you..don't even talk to her after the first night of it. The first night simply tell her; this is my bed, you belong in your own bed..then take her there. After that, don't say a word if she comes back (either that night or a different night), just take her back to her room. She will figure it out that you mean it.

Also, have you talked to her to find out if there is a reason that she can't sleep? Perhaps she is having problems at school and it is causing anxiety when she sleeps. Or she can't get over something that happened that day in school. It is common for children to not say anything about these things unless asked directly. And it is common for children to stress over things and have it affect their sleep.

Good luck. I have two girls that share a room together and it can be tough sometimes. Some nights one will be asleep until the other comes in and next thing I know there is whispering, giggling and what sounds like furniture moving..lol Those are the nights they remember that mom doesn't play around and before long there are only the sounds of peaceful sleep coming from their room.

[Lunacie]

You sound like a really nice mum :) But she's getting older now and she can't be with you all night every night. Explain to her that she's growing up and you can't treat her like a young child anymore (stress how proud of her that shes growing up and that it doesn't mean end of motherly love/care for her). Make a hot milky drink - horlix, that chocolate malty stuff, heck - calpol works well on those nights they just *won't* sleep. Get her to read a story to you? The exertion will tire her out but help develop her literacy skills.

Be very careful in following dosing instructions with calpol (similar to tylenol for us Americans).

[NefertSatSekhmet]

Thank you for all the suggestions and advice. I have had a little talk with her, and told her there will only be one big book or two little books. (A big book for her is still a short book for me to read.) I am also going to try a little quiet time and a hot cup of horlicks before the story. We shall see how it goes.