Moments when you question yourself and become unnerved?

[Calen]

I don't believe in the Devil because I think the idea of some ultimate baddie out there to get my soul is ridiculous. I think evil just comes from an estrangement from the good.
I was reading some C.S Lewis, and I can't remember exactly the bit I was on, but I suddenly stopped and started questioning myself. I didn't see the good as just some vague force in the world; I identified all things good with God. But if the idea of some ultimate baddie is silly, what of the idea of some ultimate goody, as it were?

I've thought about it since and it's not bothering me anymore, but have you had moments like that? Moments when you suddenly question something so important, so basic, and you kinda scare yourself?

[The Amityville Ghost]

The scariest experience I can think of that is similar to what you have described happened to me a few years ago. It was Halloween 2003 and a blood vessel burst in my colon. I started passing lots and lots of blood - I'm talking like gallons - and I couldn't even get to the phone in time to call for help before I fainted. I want to say that I fainted because all the blood loss was making me incredibly sleepy, which it most certainly was, but I think I really fainted because I was so horrified at what was happening to me. The sight and the smell - well, you can probably imagine.

Anyhoo, my life was turbulent up to that point. I had lost faith in Melek Ta'us and I felt that I could no longer be a person of religion. I wasn't happy being an atheist or an agnostic, but I felt I had no choice. I do not wish to discuss why I lost my faith, as it is a private issue. But, suffice it to say that I had lost faith.

Now when I was in the hospital, they did surgery on me and cut out the part of my colon that was bleeding. It was a very risky procedure though, mostly because there was so much blood in my intestines already, plus I was so young, and it's highly unusual for someone that young to have this problem. (Or at least this is what I was told.) Anyhoo, there was a good chance that I might not wake up from the surgery at all, so the night before the operation I was quite scared and couldn't sleep, despite all the painkillers I had been given.

In my room that night, I had an experience that is very difficult for me to explain. All I can say is that I felt a very definite presence in the room with me that night, and it was a familiar presence. It was the presence of Melek Ta'us, I felt for sure, the same presence I had felt so many times before in so many rituals, and which I had not felt for so long. Granted, I had a lot of drugs put into me at the time, but I don't believe I was hallucinating at all. He was there with me, and he told me that I would live to see the sun rise again. He came through on this promise.

The experience really shook me up and, although you would think it would instantly turn me back into a believer again, it actually took me a few more months to grow back into my faith. The reason why is because I was terrified by the experience. Before, I only believed this stuff was real; now I knew for sure it's real. Furthermore, I became scared of the possibility that perhaps Melek Ta'us had made my colon start bleeding just to get me back. That really scared me, because the last thing I wanted to do is be stuck with an abusive god.

But eventually the light of reason began to shine again and I realized that this terrible event did not come from Melek Ta'us, that he neither made it happen to me nor did he save me, my body made it happen and the doctors saved me. Melek Ta'us just showed up to be with me in my hour of darkness, to hold my hand and give me hope.

So yes, I have had experiences like the one you describe above.

[aluokaloo]

omgs I would have been terrified, but I am very glad you came out of it alright. :hugz: Yes, I have had those moments, at some point I was an atheist, but it didn't work for me, because for me personally I love having deities in my life. But not really knowing anything about paganism, I wondered if these gods were real or only in my imagination, so i stopped believing for a time.

[Toby Stimpson]

Its certainly a good question. I think in many ways, first of all, we're all socialized to still have a gut reaction to "evil" and "good" depending how we were brought up. I still find sometimes I still think of evil as this sort of soul damning thing... even though I don't believe in evil. Its how my culture has socialized me... even though I'm a convert to another religion.

There are times that I do question myself... and to be honest I like it in some ways. But at the same time... the reason I become unnerved, at tiems when I have questioned myself, are because:

a. I'm dumb
b. My mind at every point is always closed in a certain way.

Anm example: while researching Hinduism... my conceptualization of the Goddess Kali was as a stand alone Goddess. I was not at the point where I could envision Gods and Goddesses and their identities and personalities as fluid. I could only see rigid lines. So when I found out that Kali was a manifestation of Durga, and a Mahavidya Goddess... as well as a stand alone Goddess. I became confused and couldn't understand and doubted myself. I doubted myself becasue at that point in life, my mind was very simple and could only see things through the wiccan lense I was used to. That wiccan lens was flawed, Ill admit, but it was simplistic in some ways. Only after I was able to expand myself, and become more knowledgeable on what all these concepts like mahavidya and Kali and Manifestation meant...was I able to come to a reasonable understanding and move beyond it. I doubted wat I thought I knew... only months after could I reconcile with myself how I felt and what to believe. Its like that saying from Dune, "Fear is the mind killer... I will face my fear and let it pass through me until all that remains is me."

Now I've never really questioned about an ultimate Goody before.. but I always like to think of human beings as being like rigid balls. Sometimes only so much can fit into our minds before we begin to become scared or unnerved... and then suddenly something happens or we are able to piece things together and come to an understanding and then suddenly the space becomes larger and we expand our minds. Expanding our minds is the key to stop feeling frightened or scared... because it's small minds that are susceptible to fear.

[ravenmyst]

being a slightly unbalanced Libra, I have a running debate regularly, while certain Goddess' offer some peace, it seems to be what I need to do for now, hopefully you are good with your answers, :D

[Bettie]

No. I have known what I believe since I was very young. Things have happened to reinforce my beliefs since then, but never detracted from it, or made me question myself.

[Nyctale]

I have those kind of moments frequently. They're frightening sometimes but I think they're important. Without questioning your beliefs they won't grow. I remember when I realized I didn't believe in my mum's God as he was described in church, and I was very scared and sad, but I wouldn't be here if I hadn't accepted it and continued to question and search.

If you find you are subconsciously attributing everything that is good to a divine force, that doesn't have to be as ridiculous as you make it sound. Maybe you are most inspired by and understanding of the "good" and therefore it's how the divine best connects with you.

On the other hand, maybe you have been handed this book because you now have the opportunity to intellectually look closer at your ideas of "good" and "bad" (sorry if I sound condescending, I know you don't think this simplistically). Is there really anything in this confused humanity that is really purely bad, or purely good? Maybe thinking about the positive aspects of the negative will bring you more balance in your spirituality.

[Nitefalle]

Yes, mostly when I watch movies about demons and the Unholy (like Constantine, The Order, etc.) - those movies fascinate me. But sometimes they really make me think: maybe all this Christian stuff about fire & brimstone & Ultimate Good vs. Ultimate Evil are real and maybe I should get myself okay with Jesus again. It can be very disconcerting....but then, I attend another ritual and I feel the presence of Cernunnos or the presence of Frigga and I know that I am where I need to be right now. The human mind is a very complex thing and we can psych ourselves into the most amazing things, sometimes.

[Avanti]

Yea i've felt that. I'm still questioning myself. I recently watched a whole bunch of documentaries on demon possession. Since I believed the devil is a christian creation I never believed him, or his spawn. Well after watching people being possessed and being successfully exorcised by catholic priests, i'm really starting to doubt.

After all, one can view god, devil, angel and demons as part of christian mythology. Many pagans believe in a gods and goddesses and spirits from a whole spectrum of mythologies but they stop short at christianity and adamantly deny any belief in the devil. But who knows, maybe christianity isn't entirely wrong.

[Labrynth]

Ive had feelings like that, before i found my path, when i was younger i used to lay awake at night crying uncontrollably because i was so scared of dying and i did not know what was going to happen afterwards. I also used to have feelings of severe doubt and wonder what if Christianity really is the right path, i mean if it works for how many other millions of people maybe thats the way i should go too.

I dont think that we ever really stop having moments of questioning, its human nature to be inquisitive and seek their truth.

[Garm]

Of course there are evil powers

Very significant evil powers, in fact

Wether they, or any one them, constitute some sort of awesome negative polarity to the original force of creation can not really be discerned from this POV but the metaphysics really don't count for much if you ever felt you have attracted their attention in earnest.

Now if humanity could put aside all it's pettiness, hatreds and vendettas and get down to the business of building a better world, we would become a more different, more spiritually powerful kind of being.

Now there are, or is, something, or somethings that have a vested interest in maintaining the status quo.

Either X exists upon us in a parasitic mode that would be endangered if we if we had the ability to perceive it, or we would be in a position to compete with them/it for some unspecified but not unlimited quality, perhaps some of kind magical power, if we achieved this higher mode.

So there they/it are/is thwarting every possible improvement, augmenting every obstacle seemingly with no other motive beyond enjoying our torment, but I am sure it something more profound than that, all this negativity stops us from moving forward.

BTW , the coding, like any good software worm, is embedded deep in the OS's of our psyches, which makes their movement very hard to detect