How many worlds are there?

[MonSno_LeeDra]

As I sit here and ponder I keep thinking back to a truth that I can not prove or actually document its existance. It's a series of UPG's I would suppose but they have been with me for longer than I can recall yet can give no source of origin.

I believe that the world view is much like the tree in that their is a middle world ie the trunk, a lower world ie the root system and an upper world ie the head foliage. I believe that one may enter any point on the tree via spiriutal entrances, enterance from dream time or actual physical entrances.

Yet I recall a voice from long ago that I do not remember who it is that told me the world was like three rings hung in space. The three literaly stand upon a single pillar or tree yet that is a false imagery as well. A web envelopes the whole which shows that each is also connected on multiple levels and angels.

The houses that stand behind the winds stand hidden in plain view. Sorry I never really have understood the symbology to this one as they are seperated from the whole yet directly influence it. The locations where the top branches down upon the middle to create the joined but seperate realility that lines up with the middle but never trully touchs it.

Its almost as if three rings hang in the air with spokes like a bikes that hold level in places, bend downward to hang free in space or rise upward but do not reach the next connecting level. Yet each hanging point posses charactericts of its origin and area of influnce where it reaches to.

At times I think it is common only to me for I have found no other comparrison that comes close to matching it. The core element is common but the outer construction seems missing or hidden in such detail that I can not see it.

Add that each level spins or turns so while a fragment maybe close to a hanging point it can move away quickly. One may jump from point to point but it doesn't always guarentee the point you reached for will still be thier as you close the distance to it.

It's sort of like safety lies close to the tree trunk but movement is possible outside that trunk. It is possible to reach any point of influence but the pathway to it changes with each occurance.

To imagine what it looks like think of a weeping willow with its many branches hanging down like and umbrella shaped. Inverse it and you have the bottom facet yet place it end to end and you have the middle facet imagery. Then have it slowly turn, with each level spinning at a different rate.

I wonder if anyone else has seen this concept or heard of it?

[Lupabitch]

Keep in mind that cosmology--the understanding of how the universe is put together--is subjective and, in shamanism, largely dependent on cultural context. In modern neopaganism, since there isn't a cohesive group cosmology that everyone agrees on, and even in individual traditions you get people who disagree, attempts to "map" the nonphysical plane(s) are largely futile except for your own purposes. If the Otherworld(s) was/were an objective reality, then everyone's experience of it would be exactly the same. There are certain motifs, such as the Tree that links the worlds, or at least this world with the upper world(s), that are common, but they are in no way universal, particularly in their specific details.

What you experienced is no doubt important to you, and if it works, then run with it. However, if you see someone else's description that's similar, don't assume any actual correlation. Take it as something that's true for you, and if you find someone (whether an individual or culture) that has a similar way of seeing things, it's best to just assume it''s either a coincidence, or a product of the structure of the human psyche, influenced in particular by your own individual perceptions.

[MonSno_LeeDra]

Lupabitch wrote:


is subjective and, in shamanism, largely dependent on cultural context


I totally agree. My problem is I'm trying to find a reference to understand the cultural placement. That it has stuck with me all these years tells me the person who told me was important to me but I honestly don't recall how so have a difficualt time putting it into content. I figured if someone may have seen or recalled something similar I might have a place to look, even if from my own heritiage.

I'l be honest, having been in the military and travelled the world I wonder if my persception is not a base idea modified by the various cultural and historical places I lived and visisted. Add to that my degree is in History so the ground work has been studied rather broadley.

[Lupabitch]

Lupabitch wrote:



I totally agree. My problem is I'm trying to find a reference to understand the cultural placement. That it has stuck with me all these years tells me the person who told me was important to me but I honestly don't recall how so have a difficualt time putting it into content. I figured if someone may have seen or recalled something similar I might have a place to look, even if from my own heritiage.

I'l be honest, having been in the military and travelled the world I wonder if my persception is not a base idea modified by the various cultural and historical places I lived and visisted. Add to that my degree is in History so the ground work has been studied rather broadley.

Sounds like you've got a heck of a tangle, then!

I'd still suggest keeping the possibility that it's entirely of your own creation, but if you can figure out what influences have shaped your psyche, that'd probably give you more of a basis of understanding.

Good luck!

[David19]

IMO, I think there are multiple realms, maybe even an infinite amount, personally, I don't think we all go to the same afterlife, I think there are multiple afterlives and some realms that aren't really for the dead, but for other beings (e.g. many demon realms, faery realms, etc).

Some may sound like it comes from an RPG, but as I don't play them, I don't really care. It makes sense to me.

[Shanti]

IMO, I think there are multiple realms, maybe even an infinite amount, personally, I don't think we all go to the same afterlife, I think there are multiple afterlives and some realms that aren't really for the dead, but for other beings (e.g. many demon realms, faery realms, etc).

Some may sound like it comes from an RPG, but as I don't play them, I don't really care. It makes sense to me.
You stole my brain!!! LOL

I concur.
Possibly more worlds than a human mind can fathom.
Possibly many realms for all sorts of various existences.

And I definitely believe we are not all from the same realms, in spirit thats is, nor connected to the same realms.

Oh the possibilities I believe are endless!!

[Solya]

It's all a matter of perception, culture and other factors. The description you gave sounds similar to the visualisation of trees such as Yggdrasil from Norse myths, but it is also something I have heard before but cannot put into the proper context at the moment. I just took it as a teaching I picked up somewhere in Otherworld and nothing more. Coincidentally, a dear friend of mine once said he used the image of the Tree connecting all of the worlds as a means of travel between the worlds.

Personally, I believe there are various 'planes' or 'worlds' we can visit. Currently I'm debating with myself about the possibility of these places running parallel to Earth in other dimensions, but my lack of scientific knowledge isn't helpful where that's concerned. I think we're not all from the same realms... and that one can travel between the worlds... and that there's this huge number of infinite possibilities... and that most of these things are way beyond our human brain's understanding at the moment.

I personally think it also comes down to the way we handle the Otherworld and the way in which we perceive ourselves and these worlds in the end. It's something that seems to be ingrained into our soul's psyche. From what I can remember, I have always handled Otherworldly matters in specific ways that are mirrored in traditions here on Earth. There's a core construction and pattern in the way I perceive it which makes me think that the rudimentary teachings of this subject matter were already present in my soul before I incarnated into my current body. The shape they took in this life is dependent on the culture I grew up in and the history I came in touch with, but the 'heart' of them is the same as it has always been.

[Garm]

The question that intrigues me about all this tree guff is how it is or can be related to the many worlds hypothesis being bandied about in theoretical physics

[Shosha]

IMO, I think there are multiple realms, maybe even an infinite amount, personally, I don't think we all go to the same afterlife, I think there are multiple afterlives and some realms that aren't really for the dead, but for other beings (e.g. many demon realms, faery realms, etc).


I totally agree. As one who travels some of those realms, including one you mentioned, I know they are.

To MonSno_LeeDra;
Your description seems quite Celtic to me.
allow me to explain a little:

Abred, the MiddleWorld. This is where faries and such live and is like the flip side of the mortal world where we live.

The next circle being Annwn. This is
This is the Underworld. It's ruled by Arawn and Pwyll and the Irish god Donn. Souls stay here until they reincarnate.
There are also parts of Annwn that one can't enter without getting past the guardian of the threshold. It's worth the effort though as this is where the most ancient teachings of the ancestors can be accessed.

The third circle is Gwynfyd or the Isle of the Blest, or Avalon
This is the Upperworld rules by the goddess Rhiannon. It's occupied by the gods and animal allies.
Here the Rainbow river runs at the entrance. The entrance is guarded on one side by a holy tree and on the other by an Oak. These form the pillars of a bridge that crosses the river. It was the goal of all spiritual seekers in the Celtic world to advance from Abred, the arena of reincarnation to Gwynfyd, a place of developed spirit.

Finally there is the last and outermost circle, Ceugant, that is the residence of the Great Creating spirit. No one goes there. From the Ceugant shine three rays that stir up creation. One ray of light touches each of the three inner circles.

I don't know if that's helpful...
I was on a roll and didn't realise all I'd written until I'd finished.
Thanks for being patient with me!

[MonSno_LeeDra]

Actually the Celtic concept makes a lot of sense.

When I arrived in Scotland in 1978 I had found out about my family heritage just before leaving the states. We (on my mothers side) descended from the Morrison Clan and had originated on the Isle of Lewis in the Hebredies Islands. Family Legend is that they were shipwrecked there and thier crest shows floatsom rising from the sea to a tower.

What makes it interesting is that a few days later I was welcomed home but had no idea what the person was speaking about.

It also matches a dream I have had for years and years. In the dream thier is a staff that lies hidden in the walls of an ancient castle upon a windswept shore. The staff can be called when needed but the need has not arisen in years. There was a broach that I looked for all the time that went with the dream and it was years later that I disocvered the broach as being my grandmothers descending from the Morrison line.

What is ironic I think is that the Celtic gods / goddess have never called to me that I am aware of. Yet if I climb that tree I can see the castle and eneter it on that realm even though I am not on the Isle of Lewis.

[David19]

You stole my brain!!! LOL

I concur.
Possibly more worlds than a human mind can fathom.
Possibly many realms for all sorts of various existences.

And I definitely believe we are not all from the same realms, in spirit thats is, nor connected to the same realms.

Oh the possibilities I believe are endless!!

QFT, great post, and, glad someone else agrees ;) :).

[David19]

I totally agree. As one who travels some of those realms, including one you mentioned, I know they are.

To MonSno_LeeDra;
Your description seems quite Celtic to me.
allow me to explain a little:

Abred, the MiddleWorld. This is where faries and such live and is like the flip side of the mortal world where we live.

The next circle being Annwn. This is
This is the Underworld. It's ruled by Arawn and Pwyll and the Irish god Donn. Souls stay here until they reincarnate.
There are also parts of Annwn that one can't enter without getting past the guardian of the threshold. It's worth the effort though as this is where the most ancient teachings of the ancestors can be accessed.

The third circle is Gwynfyd or the Isle of the Blest, or Avalon
This is the Upperworld rules by the goddess Rhiannon. It's occupied by the gods and animal allies.
Here the Rainbow river runs at the entrance. The entrance is guarded on one side by a holy tree and on the other by an Oak. These form the pillars of a bridge that crosses the river. It was the goal of all spiritual seekers in the Celtic world to advance from Abred, the arena of reincarnation to Gwynfyd, a place of developed spirit.

Finally there is the last and outermost circle, Ceugant, that is the residence of the Great Creating spirit. No one goes there. From the Ceugant shine three rays that stir up creation. One ray of light touches each of the three inner circles.

I don't know if that's helpful...
I was on a roll and didn't realise all I'd written until I'd finished.
Thanks for being patient with me!

Thanks, and, thanks for the description, that sounds quite cool :).

[WolfWhoSings]

My opinion (and maybe it was coloured by being raised by a physicist ;) ) is that there are multiple realities that shade endlessly in several dimensions.

There is time forward and backward as we experience it. There are the branches in time, which are infinite and lead to their own worlds. There are other worlds different from the one we experience in major ways, and they too have their branches in time.

Each coexists alongside the other and occasionally an intersection or nexus point will occur.

Everything's real somewhere. How much that actually matters to the here and now is the question.

[David19]

My opinion (and maybe it was coloured by being raised by a physicist ;) ) is that there are multiple realities that shade endlessly in several dimensions.

There is time forward and backward as we experience it. There are the branches in time, which are infinite and lead to their own worlds. There are other worlds different from the one we experience in major ways, and they too have their branches in time.

Each coexists alongside the other and occasionally an intersection or nexus point will occur.

Everything's real somewhere. How much that actually matters to the here and now is the question.

Thanks for the post, that's actually really interesting :).