Cherry picking

[Monk]

Cherry picking,as i understand it,is when someone takes bits and pieces of other religions and beliefs without ascribing to the whole of those beliefs.Ive noticed a number of times here that parts of buddhist belief,hindu and egyptian gods etc are used by some people,and im wondering what peoples views are on the subject;why people are choosing to choose bits and pieces and wether they are properly respecting and understanding those beliefs in doing so.

[Danustouch]

Well, Monk, I feel that alot of Pagans choose the pagan path because it allows you such freedom of thought, and the ability to blend various elements from various paths. I think many pagans have come from backgrounds where they were forced to ingest dogma from one specific path, the one they were raised with. This can often be a problem, because sometimes people cannot agree with everything that one religion states. I know that was true in my case. For instance, while many people might agree with the "Golden Rule" (do unto others.....), they might not believe that premarital sex could condemn them to hell. Or, while they might agree with the thought of reincarnation, they might not believe that there is a strict rule of vegitarianism. And I know that in my case, I felt that if I couldn't give a religion my full agreement, then it was merely a huge toll on my spirit to try to "be" something that I wasn't entirely. When I came to Paganism, I found it so freeing, because I didn't have to be one specific thing, and ascribe to every law within the religion, as it had so little dogma.

But likewise, I couldn't really find one specific Trad within it that answered every single one of my beliefs, perfectly. So..I began to hunt around, and blend elements from a few belief systems which seemed to resonate deeply with me.

I think that the search for spiritual fulfillment often leads us in many various directions, and as we go along, we take experiences or knowledge that we gain from each direction we try, and blend them into the total of who we are. Just as in most other things in life. To try to give you an illustration, a Child isn't ONLY formed by his parents teachings, but by each teacher he/she encounters, their friends, relatives, experiences, lovers as they grow, etc. There is beauty, and wisdom to be found in so much of what life and spirituality has to offer, to limit yourself to one set of doctrines, dogma's or beliefs, would be a very dry life to me. If I "feel" something, deeply, i'm going to allow that thing to become part of my belief system. Period.

Now..I'm not saying someone should endeavor to do a Sweat Lodge all by themselves, using ancient tribal methods which they don't fully understand, by any means. Of course, if you are going to use a "part" of a tradition, you should try to research the ideaology, and culture from which you are drawing. But if you are willing to put the time into learning about a culture, or tradition, and wish to honor that which you've learned in your own life, by adopting a ceremony/belief or whatever into your own practices, I think there is nothing wrong with that at all.

Especially since I don't believe that any God or Goddess would Judge us on that.

People are constantly searching for something to believe in. Some way to get close to Devinity, or to understand the nature of spirit. Anyway they choose to proceed on that journey, shows a hunger and thirst for knowledge, and understanding. And I would think that the God and Goddess would fully understand that :)

[Earthcup]

I see both sides of this and it's hard to take a stand either way. As a Hellene I do get PO when people dishonor my Gods, even if they don't mean to. Some people approach religon as if they're the Borg, which really disturbs me.

On the other hand I understand what it feels like to find sacred things in many cultures. I have a great deal of respect for Jesus, Lao Tzu, the Dalai Lama, Mother Theresa, Moses, the yin/yang symbol, Starhawk and Z. Budapest. I've found sacred, meaningful things in Buddhism, Christianity, Judaism, Wicca, Sufism and Indigeneous religons.

I tried combining religons but it didn't work. By taking things out of context you lose what makes them sacred.

Myself, I endeavor to be honest and respectful in all my dealings with the Gods and the cultures they come from. Sometimes you have to decide whether it's more important that you have this shiny new idea to add to your collection or that a culture's integrity is preserved.

Anyway, that's my opinion. :)

[mol]

Hmm.

I'll answer with a question.

How do you feel about it?

[Danustouch]

Sometimes you have to decide whether it's more important that you have this shiny new idea to add to your collection or that a culture's integrity is preserved.

Well, see, this is what I mean. IMO, as long as you are not totally misrepresenting that cultures integrity, i.e, making up a bunch of lies about that culture, etc, and strive to honestly represent it in interactions with people, then there is no problem. In other words, what you specifically decide to include on your altar, or what specific deity you choose to call on, or what symbols you hold sacred, really don't cause any difficulties in the long run. What causes problems for cultural integrity, is when you make up wild stories about them, and re-write history for your own sake. As long as you are taking the time to really study a culture, and learn about it, before adopting the specific parts of it that you feel called to adopt, then I don't see a problem. That way, if someone asks you..."What does the yin-yang symbol mean"...you are able to say.."Well..it's a symbol of _______ culture, and in that culture it means__________, personally, i've adopted it to my path because in my own mind, it represents __________. But that's simply what it means to me. The true and historical meaning is _____________. ". That way, you aren't misinforming, or misleading anyone.

Just my opinion.

[Monk]

My own views on the subject are this:While its each individuals choice what they believe i think taking parts of other beliefs changes what those parts are.The full understanding of a part of a belief needs to include the whole,like karma for example.

In buddhism its considered difficult to fully understand its subtleties,yet its thrown around alot as simply cause and effect by alot of people who may not know of its deeper meaning.Also it has alot of other beliefs attached,such as reincarnation,the subtle mindstream,responsibility of actions and present conditions,the state of consciousness and other things.

When taken out of that context and made into part of personal belief its definition changes into an inherantly personal one,which makes using it difficult,since different people will have different ideas about what it means.Unless the personal definition is explained.

What words we use boils down to expression of personal beliefs and whats best in that regard is whatever expresses it in a way people can understand.Perhaps its easier to define them in broader ways,such as instead of saying what goddesses you believe in you could say you worship the energy of feminine divinity thats expressed through goddesses or whatever.While its more technical sounding it might be more understandable in a deeper way.

Anyway thats my opinion on it :)

[widukind]

I agree Monk. I'd say the names you give to deities are your way of connecting to them. They are the way you name them. Just like an Anglophone would call a tree 'tree', a Francophone would call it 'arbre', a Germanophone would call it 'baum' and I'd say 'boom'. In my opinion, dieties are energies and focusing on the personification is wrong, because it limits the understanding of that very energy. But, as I said, it's my opinion.

[Edited to correct a typo]

[unoriginalnames]

I do cherry pick. I agree with the earlier post that mentions the analogy of a child being influenced by friends, teachers, and others instead of solely by the parents. While I am comfortable with my own personal cosmology, it is kind of disconcerting to not be able to identify myself with one group of pagans, say Wiccans, Druids, or the like. When people ask me what I am, I have to answer very generally, "pagan." I think that if I were to call myself a Wiccan or a Hindu or someting more specific like that it would be a lie, as my beliefs come from a variety of sources. One of the rules I subscribe to in my life is to take what I like and leave the rest. It's not that I disrespect any religion, it's just that I've never found one that fills all of my criteria. The beauty of life, in my opinion, is its shades of gray. I think many prophets and religious figures were on the right track to experiencing life as a spiritual journey, but I think that my spiritual journey has to be based on my own experiences and morals rather than someone else's. Besides, if I know they're mine, I can't feel like my religion might be being perverted by outside sources who misread what I was trying to say, which was one of my biggest problems with my Christian upbringing. Just a thought or two.

[Armitage]

I'd say it's something that can't be helped. You hear a new idea you like or one that fits nicely with what you believe, it gets integrated into your personal belief system. It's just a matter of how consciously it is expressed. No one can wholly and completely fit a belief label. Even if you're taught in a tradition of whatever kind, you still have your own personal bent on that school of thought.
As for whether it's a good thing or not, IMO it encourages inner-searching to see whether the pieces fit, which in turn keeps the mind flexible and free of old dogma that no longer applies.

[Danustouch]

I also think that since human beings were originally quite nomadic, in nature, that it is part of human nature to absorb differen't cultures/beliefs/languages and the like. As far back as we can go in history, we know that cultures have effected and changed other cultures through absorbtion of practices/beliefs/languages/art/tools, etc. If it was good enough for our distant ancestors, why wouldn't it be good enough now? In my opinion, while it is good to celebrate cultural identity, and diversity, it is also good to learn about other cultures, and celebrate THEM. Deviding ourselves along lines of cultural identity, etc, can be nothing but destructive if taken to extreme. In my belief, we are all related, even though the relation may be so very distant (see history forum: The Real Eve). All sharing some very ancient DNA. And if we are all related, then I really don't see a problem in sharing culture. JMHO.

[Myst]

Originally posted by Monk
My own views on the subject are this:While its each individuals choice what they believe i think taking parts of other beliefs changes what those parts are.The full understanding of a part of a belief needs to include the whole,like karma for example.

They don't call themselves Buddhist in the first place. What they believe is Wiccan, *based* on Buddhist teachings. That doesn't negate the importance or 'corrupt' Buddhism. That's like saying Hawking postulated great theories about the universe but hey, it's all bs because he's based it on past physics knowledge and even his own studies back as far as primary school when he learned basic math and science. Somehow his theories on the universe 'dilute' basic math and science..? And since I haven't had his (or any physicists) education in physics etc. I can't take any part of it and believe it?

Isn't that pretty silly? I can't believe energy can't be created nor destroyed, because I haven't studied physics for decades? Do the physics of the universe change because my opinion does?

Before you go on the 'relatively, yes' bit, isn't it true then that Buddhism is also relative to the observer? And if so, there is no absolute in the first place, and no relative opinion dilutes any other's (my perception doesn't change yours)?

We naturally learn from experience and build on our own and other circumstances. It's human nature, it's how we adapt, and it's how we've lived this long. We see, we learn, we apply it in new ways.