Having been called, perhaps. Now what?

[Greybird]

This post is the result of some repeated urging that I should look more closely at shamanism based on my own personal history.

Let me clear some things up first off: I'm not a shaman. I don't follow a particularly shamanic path. I am also a believer that 'shaman' is a societal role as much as a anything. On the other hand, I honestly believe that had I been born into a society in which some form of shamanism was practiced, that I'd have been grabbed by the ear as a child and taken off for training. This isn't a 'I think wolves are cool' kind of thing, not something I decided on or thought would be fun. This is something I keep getting pushed towards, and felt that I should appeal to the more knowledgeable to see if I'm reading the right things into my history or not, and if so, what I should do about it. I'll try to be brief, but I do tend to be wordy. I hope you'll be patient.

I'm a 34 year old male. This goes back to when I was a child, all the way back to when I was about a year and a half old. My mother was psychic, and not in a 'funny feeling' way - she had specific, detailed precognitive dreams. She described specific incidents to family members that came to pass in days or months. Very specific things, like my father getting shot in the leg during a hunting trip (he got shot in the hand, then rested his hand on his leg, getting it covered in blood) or my sister moving into a two story yellow house with a white fence and something terrible happening there (they moved in several months later and the house burned down shortly afterwards.)

Anyway, we moved into a new house when I was a year and a half old or so. My father was home alone when he heard footsteps and had a 'bad feeling'. He checked, and nobody was in the house. It happened again, and he was uncomfortable enough that he decided to wait outside for my mother. When she came home, she told him that she had seen whatever it was herself, and knew that it was something bad. We immediately moved. Some weeks later, in the second new house, my mother woke up during a completely silent night, screaming my name. She ran into the nursery, and found me lying there. I had died. I had stopped breathing for long enough that my skin had turned blue and cold. As soon as she touched me, I started breathing again. She said, "I don't know what it was, but it is evil, and it followed us!"

My earliest memories are from that night. I remember waking up in the ambulance on the way to the hospital. I didn't open my eyes and wake up - I distinctly remember moving through a cave and through a waterfall and onto the stretcher where my body was. After the doctors at the hospital had cleared me, they told my father to carry me around outside for the fresh air. I remember him carrying me around the hospital, and described the scene in detail to my father years later, him confirming the details. The thing that is distinctive was that I don't remember being carried - I remember watching my father carry me from up near the top of the lamp posts in the hospital parking lot. I was outside of my body, watching.

The point, of course, was that I died as a child and experienced a type of rebirth.

Next. I am mildly autistic. Not severely enough that you'd know it by talking to me, but enough that it is apparent if you know what to look for. That means that I literally view the world differently from normal people. My brain interprets sounds, colors, smells, all of my senses a little differently from the rest of the population. I organize data a little differently. I think differently. As a side effect of growing up with this undiagnosed and untreated, I've also developed social anxiety disorder and agoraphobia. In short, while I'm not off-the-wall bonkers, and don't suffer from any form of delusional disorders, I'm not quite normal, psychologically. Enough so that I'm considered fully disabled.

Third, I've had visions. At distinct points in my life (at times of major change), a certain bird has appeared to me in one manner or another. I'm not talking about just noticing this bird while driving along the road, I'm talking about very unusual situations in which I've seen it acting differently than it normally would. I've had very, very clear, detailed dreams during which I was this bird. Dreams unlike any other I've ever had. I know without doubt, that should I grow wings right now, I'd know how to use them. I know how to cant them just so to catch an updraft, and so on.

I'm here posting this because it has been mentioned to me by separate individuals on separate occasions that my life has matched certain traditional conditions that might be interpreted as having been called. I died, and had a distinct rebirth experience. I'm a little abnormal, mentally. I've had visions. There have been some other, minor things that make me wonder as well, but I'll leave it at that for now.

So, am I barking up the wrong tree, or am I interpreting these things correctly that I'm supposed to be following a shamanic path, gaining shamanic teachings? If so, what then? I've heard more than once that being called to such a path and not choosing to follow it can bring 'bad things', but nobody ever says what kind of 'bad things'. If I did receive that call, and nobody was there to recognize it, then I've been not following it for at least a couple of decades. It has me curious, as it really could explain a few things in my life.

[Vigdisdotter]

I've heard more than once that being called to such a path and not choosing to follow it can bring 'bad things', but nobody ever says what kind of 'bad things'.

Actually there is a thread on that very subject in this sub folder. And of course now I can't find it. Basically it boils down to various psychosis and related problems as well as physical health issues.


If I did receive that call, and nobody was there to recognize it, then I've been not following it for at least a couple of decades. It has me curious, as it really could explain a few things in my life.

Why do you feel you need a HUMAN teacher to recognize you? Sure in some traditions this is the way of things, but ultimately it's the Spirits that choose you and they will be your greatest teachers as well.

[Greybird]

Why do you feel you need a HUMAN teacher to recognize you? Sure in some traditions this is the way of things, but ultimately it's the Spirits that choose you and they will be your greatest teachers as well.

What I meant by that was that if I actually was receiving the call, then there wasn't somebody there who was able to recognize it for what it was as there would have been in a culture with such a tradition. I didn't mean that I needed to be 'recognized', but rather that I'd needed someone to recognize what was happening to me.

[Vigdisdotter]

What I meant by that was that if I actually was receiving the call, then there wasn't somebody there who was able to recognize it for what it was as there would have been in a culture with such a tradition. I didn't mean that I needed to be 'recognized', but rather that I'd needed someone to recognize what was happening to me.

I'm confused. Why isn't your own recognition enough?

[Greybird]

I'm confused. Why isn't your own recognition enough?

I think we're still pursuing different definitions of 'recognition'. Because (assuming that's what's going on), it took me 30 years to figure it out during which time I was 'ignoring' the call. My only point was that had I been born into a cultural with a shamanic element, I might have been spared that 30 years of pain and confusion.

[skilly-nilly]

I hear what you're saying and I agree completely.

I'm getting started writing a small book, and one section is just what you're saying. I believe that being a 'God-Speaker' is a human universal. That is that some people have that ability/call/rôle no matter what culture they're born into, but without a supportive culture it's problematical to deal with.

Part of my coming to terms with the 'recognition' of Spirit is my finding a culture and pantheon (I am a kind of Irish ReConstructionist) to work inside, although I'm sure it can be done without that referential as well.

I don't think the time-lapse is as important to Spirit as it is to you; I believe Spirit is timeless and so They've not actually been waiting around impatiently for the penny to drop for 30 years. In the same way, I always wait for at least one if not a few confirmatory Sendings on a vision---I don't think that the action time-line is imperative in most cases.

In the absence of societal input, it's good to have a close friend to check in with to insure that the crazy-meter isn't registering too high.
Good Luck to you.

[Vigdisdotter]

I might have been spared that 30 years of pain and confusion.

Perhaps not, but would you be the better for that? Or maybe that "30 years of pain and confusion" is part of your path? Maybe it's spiritual training and you weren't ignoring it; you just weren't conscious of it.

[Lupabitch]

Please keep in mind that being different didn't automatically make one called to be a shaman. I know a lot of people try to justify things like (untreated) schizophrenia and such by saying "I'm a shaman!". Granted, mild autism is a MUCH different scenario than a mental illness such as schizophrenia; however, I would be cautious when considering that as a shamanic trait.

The death/rebirth is a definite experience that can be tied to shamanism, though usually it happens later in life. That doesn't mean it can't have relevance in this situation, of course.

The visions also sound like they could be useful tools in a shamanic practice, if that's what you believe you need to do. None of these things automatically makes you a shamanic candidate, but they can be things that you can incorporate into your practice if you take that path.

So here's my thought on it. You haven't mentioned how much you've read about shamanism, or how much you know about it in general. I would recommend reading everything you can about it--not just neoshamanic/core shamanic texts, but also anthropological texts. Talk to folks in your local pagan community, as well as online, about shamanism. See if it's something that really fits. Sometimes the traits you mention are shamanic, but sometimes they're just things that happen to people. I've seen plenty of cases where people call something shamanic, when they don't really have a thorough understanding of what shamanism is.

If you do determine that you are, in fact, being called, then I would recommend continuing with a balance of reading and talking to others, as well as working with the spirits. This balance is necessary precisely because, as you mentioned, we don't have a shamanic system inherent in our culture. Learning from spirits is fine, but we also need physical world interactions to ground us. I've seen entirely too many spiritual and magical practitioners of all sorts who led themselves into deep delusion because they lost touch with this reality.

LMK if you need any other suggestions, books, etc. And good luck!

[Greybird]

I am very, very cautious when it comes to using spirituality as an excuse for my abnormalities. It is easy to do, and it is a constant temptation. Doing so removes the any responsibility for growth, which is what makes it so appealing. I've certainly seen other people do so.


Sometimes the traits you mention are shamanic, but sometimes they're just things that happen to people.


Here you've hit on why I'm here. I try to keep myself in check and not jump to conclusions, especially where something as subjective and open to interpretation as spirituality is concerned. I am hoping that by sharing my experiences with those with a bit more experience, I might gain some insight (and you've given some, thank you.)




So here's my thought on it. You haven't mentioned how much you've read about shamanism, or how much you know about it in general. I would recommend reading everything you can about it--not just neoshamanic/core shamanic texts, but also anthropological texts.

I've read some. I majored in anthropology (no degree), and have studied certain cultures with a strong shamanic element since my early teens. I've not, however, studied it from a practitioner's perspective.



I've seen entirely too many spiritual and magical practitioners of all sorts who led themselves into deep delusion because they lost touch with this reality.


I agree. It is easy to do. I forget who said that the best magicians were skeptics, but they hit the nail on the head.




LMK if you need any other suggestions, books, etc. And good luck!

Letting you know! ;)

[Simply Puzzled]

This post was a lot to absorb, but let's go through it a little bit at a time.


Let me clear some things up first off: I'm not a shaman. I don't follow a particularly shamanic path. I am also a believer that 'shaman' is a societal role as much as a anything. On the other hand, I honestly believe that had I been born into a society in which some form of shamanism was practiced, that I'd have been grabbed by the ear as a child and taken off for training.

Well, it's good to know you aren't jumping into anything. And I think you'll be hard pressed to find someone who seriously studies shamanism that doesn't consider the role part of a cultural context. On the other hand, I think it would be equally mistaken to assume that there is no place for a shaman in the 21st century United States. Certainly there is less of a place, but many shamans have been able to carve out their own niches. While we might not have the formalized educational system to be "grabbed by the ear" and taken into, you might one day find yourself serving as a shaman to friends, family, and complete strangers.


story of death and rebirth

These sorts of initiatory experiences are common in shamanic cultures, but they aren't universal. Your story also seems to lack one element that seems to be to be essential for such an experience to be considered a shamanic death and rebirth: the experience of being torn apart and put back together without a piece of yourself. It is normally through the removal of the part of us that separates us from the spirit world that the shaman gains his abilities to move in and see the next world. The death and rebirth motif might be an indicator of potential shamanic ability latter in life, but I probably wouldn't characterize it as the actual initiation itself.


Next. I am mildly autistic. Not severely enough that you'd know it by talking to me, but enough that it is apparent if you know what to look for. That means that I literally view the world differently from normal people. My brain interprets sounds, colors, smells, all of my senses a little differently from the rest of the population. I organize data a little differently. I think differently. As a side effect of growing up with this undiagnosed and untreated, I've also developed social anxiety disorder and agoraphobia. In short, while I'm not off-the-wall bonkers, and don't suffer from any form of delusional disorders, I'm not quite normal, psychologically. Enough so that I'm considered fully disabled.

I'm confused by how your psychological functioning could be slight enough that one could easily not notice it, yet severe enough that you are considered fully disabled. While shamans are usually considered different or slightly outside the norms of their cultures, one of the common themes of shamanism (though again not universal), is that the shaman is respected both for his ability to live outside the culture and within it. In addition to their role as shaman, they mostly carry out the other duties common to their gender, such as hunting, agriculture, and woodworking for men.


Third, I've had visions. At distinct points in my life (at times of major change), a certain bird has appeared to me in one manner or another. I'm not talking about just noticing this bird while driving along the road, I'm talking about very unusual situations in which I've seen it acting differently than it normally would. I've had very, very clear, detailed dreams during which I was this bird. Dreams unlike any other I've ever had. I know without doubt, that should I grow wings right now, I'd know how to use them. I know how to cant them just so to catch an updraft, and so on.

While visions are characteristic of a shaman, they are also characteristic of another group entirely, the mystic that journeys for his own benefit.


So, am I barking up the wrong tree, or am I interpreting these things correctly that I'm supposed to be following a shamanic path, gaining shamanic teachings?

While obviously I can't be 100% certain, to me, your descriptions do not bear certain hallmarks that I would look for when trying to determine whether or not experiences fall into the range of shamanism. As mentioned above, your death and rebirth misses a key element of shamanic death and rebirth, your mental disabilities seem to outside the range most shamans possess since they exclude you from fulfilling normal roles in our culture, and your visions (including your oob experience) seem to deal with the "middle realm" as opposed to the lower or upper worlds.


If so, what then?

Well.....they don't necessarily have a meaning. But perhaps you would make a good diviner, or mystic, or any number of the paths that call people.


I've heard more than once that being called to such a path and not choosing to follow it can bring 'bad things', but nobody ever says what kind of 'bad things'.

Death is one. Insanity is another, and I mean full-blown lock-you-up-in-a-padded-room crazy. It is possible that you should be following a shamanic path and not doing so is aggravating your conditions, but I doubt it. Of course, following a shamanic path brings lots of occupational hazards with it too.


If I did receive that call, and nobody was there to recognize it, then I've been not following it for at least a couple of decades.

Why would the spirits say something if no one was there to hear it? There is a sort of "class" of shamans that are born into societies where they aren't able to be properly taught. In these instances, the spirits come and teach the person themselves. If you really are meant to be shaman, you will know. If you want to be a shaman, that is also possible (though some dispute this, and they have a good case), but it's going to be a much different path.

[Greybird]

Thanks for your input.



I'm confused by how your psychological functioning could be slight enough that one could easily not notice it, yet severe enough that you are considered fully disabled.

To clarify that part, my autism, the only thing on the list I was born with, is what is subtle. It is not the reason for my disability. My disability is from the other conditions that were a result of being raised with the genetic abnormality undiagnosed and untreated. It is like looking at someone born with one leg shorter than the other while that person's leg is broken in two places. The short leg (my autism) is a quirk, one you probably wouldn't notice. It is the breaks in the leg (my other conditions) that keep me from running, and that I intend to heal so I can get moving again. I hope that a few years from now I'll be working and earning a living. I just reread that portion of my post, and can see why it caused confusion. Sorry about that.

[Simply Puzzled]

I just reread that portion of my post, and can see why it caused confusion. Sorry about that.

No problem. Thanks for the clarification. Any thoughts on the rest of it?

[Lupabitch]

I am very, very cautious when it comes to using spirituality as an excuse for my abnormalities. It is easy to do, and it is a constant temptation. Doing so removes the any responsibility for growth, which is what makes it so appealing. I've certainly seen other people do so.

Well, you seem to be approaching it in the right manner, so I'm not too concerned about you turning it into a crutch.




I've read some. I majored in anthropology (no degree), and have studied certain cultures with a strong shamanic element since my early teens. I've not, however, studied it from a practitioner's perspective.Okay, so I'm going to assume you've read Eliade already. I'd also strongly recommend these:

Piers Vitebsky's The Shaman - anthropological, but a much wider view than Eliade and others, and nicely balanced intro to shamanism around the world.
Michael Harner's The Way of the Shaman - while I tend to recommend not basing your practicing primarily on core shamanism (which is what Harner created) it's a good idea to be familiar with it, just so you know what it is. I find core shamanism to be too limited in scope, and too limited in functionality.
Hillary S. Webb's Exploring Shamanism - an excellent intro to practical neoshamanism, very down to earth
Roger G. Walsh's The Spirit of Shamanism - a superior text on shamanism and psychology, though not so academic as to be inaccessible
James Endredy's Ecoshamanism - environmental activism in modern shamanic practice, one of my absolute favorite books in the world

I have some other recommendations (good and bad) at http://lupabitch.wordpress.com/category/shamanism/


As for online resources (beyond this forum, of course) I highly recommend taking a look at http://www.wildspeak.com (http://www.wildspeak.com/) for a modern traditional shamanic practitioner's perspective. There's also a brand new forum that just opened up, http://www.wildspeak.com/forum. Another good forum is located at http://www.kondor.de (http://www.kondor.de/).

[Lupabitch]

Your story also seems to lack one element that seems to be to be essential for such an experience to be considered a shamanic death and rebirth: the experience of being torn apart and put back together without a piece of yourself. It is normally through the removal of the part of us that separates us from the spirit world that the shaman gains his abilities to move in and see the next world. The death and rebirth motif might be an indicator of potential shamanic ability latter in life, but I probably wouldn't characterize it as the actual initiation itself.

I would agree with this assessment. In many cultures, the death-rebirth dismemberment only happened after the initiate was trained, as a part of hir initiation process. While death-rebirth through serious illness was common in some cultures as a sign of a potential shaman, the dismemberment seems to have been more common after the shamanic candidate has been brought through training, is familiar with the cosmology, etc.

However, there are shamanic systems in which dismemberment in initiation is absent; I don't believe, for example, that it is a feature of traditional Korean shamanism. Granted, there's Eliade's reasoning that certain features are found in "true" shamanism, and that anything else is proof of degradation of the system. However, I tend to side more with Vitebsky, who sees shamanism manifested in diverse ways in different cultures, each system appropriate to the culture it's in (albeit potentially degraded by a lack of new initiates).

I've rarely seen dismemberment in neoshamanism/core shamanism. I have not yet been initiated into my own system (which is primarily spirit-taught) so I can't speak for myself. But a lot of neoshamanic systems seem tamed--Harner even says in The Way of the Shaman that the shamanic state of consciousness is safer than the everyday state of consciousness.

Anyhoo, enough yammering from me here for the moment. Just wanted to agree, and bring up a couple extra thoughts.

[Vigdisdotter]

I had an interesting discussion about the dismemberment issue with a Celtic shaman some years ago. I explained my experience (which isn't what I thought of as an initiation) and he beamed at me, telling me I had been called. Well that's nice, but why didn't I have the dismemberment experience?

His response to that was, "You didn't need it." He then went on to explain that spiritual dismemberment is a way for the Spirits to get their chosen victim ready to accept what is being shown/told and since most AREN'T ready for one reason or another it's a violent, life altering experience. But when someone IS ready, the experience was a lot less jarring and more of an epiphany moment....if a frightening one.

We then got into a discussion about the experience of male vs. female initiates... it was a fun night :)

[Simply Puzzled]

His response to that was, "You didn't need it." He then went on to explain that spiritual dismemberment is a way for the Spirits to get their chosen victim ready to accept what is being shown/told and since most AREN'T ready for one reason or another it's a violent, life altering experience. But when someone IS ready, the experience was a lot less jarring and more of an epiphany moment....if a frightening one.


New hypothesis time:

This is a valid criticism, and I understand where you are coming from. So far, judging from what Greybird has said, he has not had any experiences with the other world. His abilities seem confined to this plane, which is really not Shamanism. Had the OOB experience involved moving down a hole or had the feelings of flying been accompanied by visions of being in the Heavens, I suppose we could conclude that it's shamanic. As it is now though, we have some elements of shamanism, i.e. shapeshifting, but without the context that gives them shape. Perhaps Greybird is experiencing a state where he has stumbled onto the tools of shamanism for whatever reason, but he lacks being called by any specific spirits. Sort of like having a partial set of woodworking tools and no wood.

[Vigdisdotter]

Perhaps Greybird is experiencing a state where he has stumbled onto the tools of shamanism for whatever reason

That is certainly possible. After all the "tools" are not limited to shamanism, but are often shared by other paths as well, each with their own context and usage. Witchcraft comes to mind.

[Shanti]

I sent a PM.

[Greybird]

Thanks for all the replies. Now I've got some ideas of what things may mean, along with why they may not mean it. It is enough to give me some clarity as I start my own research.

Lupabitch, thanks for all the book recommendations. Between here and your linked sites, I ended up ordering a half-dozen books and adding another handful to my wishlists. As an aside, I also checked out your artwork. You've got some beautiful stuff there, and we have similar artistic taste (see the altar link in my sig.) A shame you live so far away - my group and I have regular crafting sessions, and I'd guess that you'd fit right in. I even got some ideas for those deer jaws I've been holding onto!

[Lupabitch]

Thanks for all the replies. Now I've got some ideas of what things may mean, along with why they may not mean it. It is enough to give me some clarity as I start my own research.

Lupabitch, thanks for all the book recommendations. Between here and your linked sites, I ended up ordering a half-dozen books and adding another handful to my wishlists. As an aside, I also checked out your artwork. You've got some beautiful stuff there, and we have similar artistic taste (see the altar link in my sig.) A shame you live so far away - my group and I have regular crafting sessions, and I'd guess that you'd fit right in. I even got some ideas for those deer jaws I've been holding onto!

I'm glad I could help! And thank you for the compliment! I'd like to see what you do with the jaws, once you get around to it.