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banondraig
January 5th, 2008, 12:51 AM
It's time for the new discussion to begin!

I'm short of profound questions at the moment, so I'll start with this one:

Did anyone else get annoyed by the footnotes throughout the book?

Artiste-LiLi
January 5th, 2008, 10:20 AM
Nope, I loved them as much as the rest of the book.

Lunacie
January 5th, 2008, 11:17 AM
I just borrowed this one from a friend last week so haven't read it yet, but I'm a longtime fan of Terry Pratchett, and I think those little footnotes he adds are absolutely hilarious. It would be pretty easy to ignore them if you feel they disrupt the flow of the story - they don't usually have anything to do with the story, they just add some background color and flavour.

banondraig
January 5th, 2008, 12:11 PM
I just borrowed this one from a friend last week so haven't read it yet, but I'm a longtime fan of Terry Pratchett, and I think those little footnotes he adds are absolutely hilarious. It would be pretty easy to ignore them if you feel they disrupt the flow of the story - they don't usually have anything to do with the story, they just add some background color and flavour.

I'm pretty much of incapable of ignoring things like that, maybe it's a touch of OCD, who knows?

I thought they were hilarious in the first couple of his books that I read, but now they just strike me as pretentious and gimmicky. :hrmm:

LisaT4P
January 5th, 2008, 12:32 PM
I enjoyed them, too. I enjoy funny little things like that. Little side notes. :) Maybe that is because I digress so often myself. LOL

banondraig
January 5th, 2008, 12:38 PM
I enjoyed them, too. I enjoy funny little things like that. Little side notes. :) Maybe that is because I digress so often myself. LOL

:hehehehe:

Lunacie
January 5th, 2008, 01:49 PM
I enjoyed them, too. I enjoy funny little things like that. Little side notes. :) Maybe that is because I digress so often myself. LOL

Oh, so that's why I enjoy them. :lol:

I've suspected for some time that Terry Pratchett might have ADHD as well. ;)

banondraig
January 5th, 2008, 03:02 PM
Oh, so that's why I enjoy them. :lol:

I've suspected for some time that Terry Pratchett might have ADHD as well. ;)

maybe without the "H". you'd think that either he'd be disinclined to sit still long enough to write, or else write like Jack Kerouac, if he were hyperactive.

Lunacie
January 5th, 2008, 03:54 PM
maybe without the "H". you'd think that either he'd be disinclined to sit still long enough to write, or else write like Jack Kerouac, if he were hyperactive.

That's a misperception. Even with Hyperactivity included, ADD folks tend to focus on one thing to the exclusion of everything else at times, especially if it's something they really enjoy. Otherwise all kinds of things can be really distracting. It's not really attention deficit so much as attention imbalance. And the hyperactivity may manifest differently in adults than in children. Kids tend to not be able to stay seated for long periods while adults may simply find themselves fidgiting, moving a leg, tapping a toe, crossing and uncrossing a leg, swinging a foot, twisting a strand of hair... well, I'm sure you get the idea. And they are often very creative and imaginative.

banondraig
January 5th, 2008, 04:12 PM
That's a misperception. Even with Hyperactivity included, ADD folks tend to focus on one thing to the exclusion of everything else at times, especially if it's something they really enjoy.

I knew that . . .

but I'm biased toward "non-H" types as I'm fairly sure I am one myself. :)


Otherwise all kinds of things can be really distracting. It's not really attention deficit so much as attention imbalance. And the hyperactivity may manifest differently in adults than in children. Kids tend to not be able to stay seated for long periods while adults may simply find themselves fidgiting, moving a leg, tapping a toe, crossing and uncrossing a leg, swinging a foot, twisting a strand of hair... well, I'm sure you get the idea. And they are often very creative and imaginative.


I'm a fidgeter, but always managed to stay seated, etc., when in school. hmm.

Philosophia
January 5th, 2008, 09:48 PM
I can't join in yet because I haven't received my book. :(

banondraig
January 5th, 2008, 10:23 PM
that sucks!

we'll keep the discussion going until the next one starts, so there should be plenty of time anyway. :)

Shatril
January 5th, 2008, 11:01 PM
Yeah, I ordered mine from the library and I'm on a waiting list. I may have to sit this one out :goodgrief

Artiste-LiLi
January 6th, 2008, 11:49 AM
I enjoyed them, too. I enjoy funny little things like that. Little side notes. :) Maybe that is because I digress so often myself. LOL

YES! Yes yes yes!!! So THAT'S what it is!!!!!!:boing::rotfl:

THAT's why I like them so much! My husband says I'm a " 'round-a-bout storyteller" because eventually I'll get "round to what the story is about". I always tell stories/explain things with numerous "asides" thrown in.



(and yes I am AADD)

Artiste-LiLi
January 6th, 2008, 11:52 AM
That's a misperception. Even with Hyperactivity included, ADD folks tend to focus on one thing to the exclusion of everything else at times, especially if it's something they really enjoy. Otherwise all kinds of things can be really distracting. It's not really attention deficit so much as attention imbalance. And the hyperactivity may manifest differently in adults than in children. Kids tend to not be able to stay seated for long periods while adults may simply find themselves fidgiting, moving a leg, tapping a toe, crossing and uncrossing a leg, swinging a foot, twisting a strand of hair... well, I'm sure you get the idea. And they are often very creative and imaginative.

Hmmmmmm......that fits me better than standard Adult ADD.......maybe I do have the hyperactivity element as well...........

Oh Gods...now I have to to talk to my doctor about this.....crap! LOL.

Lunacie
January 6th, 2008, 12:31 PM
Hmmmmmm......that fits me better than standard Adult ADD.......maybe I do have the hyperactivity element as well...........

Oh Gods...now I have to to talk to my doctor about this.....crap! LOL.

Another thing adult AD/HD folks do is interrupt and derail conversations. :rotfl:

So to get this one back on track, I've sent you a PM with some info.

Meanwhile, I'm wishing I'd started reading the books my friend loaned me with Good Omens instead of the other one. I'm not one of those people who is good at reading more than one book at a time, so as soon as I finish the one I'm reading I'll begin this one.

LisaT4P
January 6th, 2008, 03:40 PM
I think Crawly is one of my fave characters, ever. He's so much fun. He's the little wussy, smart-ass guy... I mean... I'm sure that compared to a human he's a badass, but he's the little geeky boy to the other demons, which is just pretty funny. :) I think this dichotomy is what makes him a believable character.

banondraig
January 7th, 2008, 12:59 AM
I think Crawly is one of my fave characters, ever. He's so much fun. He's the little wussy, smart-ass guy... I mean... I'm sure that compared to a human he's a badass, but he's the little geeky boy to the other demons, which is just pretty funny. :) I think this dichotomy is what makes him a believable character.

Crawly is a lot of fun. I so want his car!

I also liked the description of Aziraphale as appearing to be English, intelligent, and gayer than a treeful of monkeys on nitrous oxide.

LisaT4P
January 7th, 2008, 09:03 PM
Don't you love that? I also love that all the CDs turn to Queen. I was like... "Hey! I LIKE Queen! I have their CDs on purpose!"

banondraig
January 8th, 2008, 12:43 PM
Don't you love that? I also love that all the CDs turn to Queen. I was like... "Hey! I LIKE Queen! I have their CDs on purpose!"

:rotfl:

Here CDs would probably turn into the sort of rap that the car next to you at a stop light uses to vibrate your rearview mirror.

Arianne Weaver
January 8th, 2008, 01:05 PM
Just realised we have a book group!:hahugh:
posted one just , about the MZB books.
I love Pratchet, but find this one not in his "Discworld " style. Still find it hilarious, and love the footnotes - they make me think that he's not really saying what I thought he was, or just make me think more!!!!!!!!!!!:weirdsmil

I like the car, and the idea of his that the current age isn't about BIG sins from one person, but more about just dragging everyone down into general discontent and complacency about it - that this is actually far more damaging to the spiritual health of the Nation, or the world, than one or two spectacular Falls.

Also love the bit where Anathema is setting up her equipment, and says something like "East then South, then West... South a bit more, South-West -- Got it!"
I wasn't initiated at the time & didn't recognise it as pure Mickey-take on the AlexandrianWitches' Rune!

Plus...:megaphone like the bit about Death playing the Quiz machine, coming to the death of Elvis & saying "I never touched him!"
Does everyone think that it's the same Death from the Discworld novels? Certainly talks the same! ( or at least another aspect of him!)

I do go on, don't I? can I join in? Can I? Can I? PLEEEEEEASE!

LisaT4P
January 8th, 2008, 02:22 PM
Absolutely. :) And yes, I do believe that it is the same Death... why would there be more than one (for humans, anyway). I LOVED him in this book.

banondraig
January 8th, 2008, 02:36 PM
I love Pratchet, but find this one not in his "Discworld " style. Still find it hilarious, and love the footnotes - they make me think that he's not really saying what I thought he was, or just make me think more!!!!!!!!!!!:weirdsmil

It's definitely in the Pratchet format, but more of Gaiman's style.


I like the car, and the idea of his that the current age isn't about BIG sins from one person, but more about just dragging everyone down into general discontent and complacency about it - that this is actually far more damaging to the spiritual health of the Nation, or the world, than one or two spectacular Falls.

Agreed. C.S. Lewis said something to that effect in his "Screwtape Letters", as well. That's an excellent read, although it is not comedy.


Plus...:megaphone like the bit about Death playing the Quiz machine, coming to the death of Elvis & saying "I never touched him!"

I guess they subscribe to the "hanging out with Jim Morrison in Hawaii" theory. :hahugh:


Does everyone think that it's the same Death from the Discworld novels? Certainly talks the same! ( or at least another aspect of him!)

Totally the same guy.


I do go on, don't I? can I join in? Can I? Can I? PLEEEEEEASE!


Of course, we don't have any background check, secret handshake, any of that stuff.

We do like for people to read the book being discussed before posting, so you're in! :)

Seren_
January 8th, 2008, 04:09 PM
I think Good Omens is probably my favourite book of all time. I've had to buy a second copy because I wore the last one out.

Gaiman and Pratchett were such a good combination of authors, I love Crowley and Aziraphale, and the Witchfinder/Anathema subplot. I'm not so keen on the bikers riding with the four horsemen towards the end of the book, though, that sort of comedy just doesn't do anything for me.

It's a shame the film never got off the ground :( Hopefully it will get picked up again sometime, Gilliam was the perfect director for it.

LostSheep
January 8th, 2008, 04:33 PM
Yes, I did think that sometimes the slapstick bits could get a little tiresome, but on the whole I thoroughly approved. I loved the footnotes and things like that, I much prefer surreality to slapstick generally. Did, I wonder, anyone think that the kids and their wholesome gang was a bit anachronistic for something supposedly set in modern times? They seemed a little...idealised, perhaps. Riding around on bikes, scrumping apples. Something like a throwback to the 1930s. Of course, that may well have been deliberately intentional.

banondraig
January 9th, 2008, 02:23 PM
Yes, I did think that sometimes the slapstick bits could get a little tiresome, but on the whole I thoroughly approved. I loved the footnotes and things like that, I much prefer surreality to slapstick generally. Did, I wonder, anyone think that the kids and their wholesome gang was a bit anachronistic for something supposedly set in modern times? They seemed a little...idealised, perhaps. Riding around on bikes, scrumping apples. Something like a throwback to the 1930s. Of course, that may well have been deliberately intentional.

I have to second the bit about the bikers. I just rolled my eyes at it and wished for it to hurry up.

I think the throwback-ness of the kids was intentional, but they are also only eleven, and in a rural area as well. I hadn't really noticed until you mentioned it, but then I don't have any real idea what British 11-year-olds do in this day and age, or any other for that matter.

LostSheep
January 9th, 2008, 02:30 PM
Oh, the usual kind of thing: car jacking, ramraiding, drinking vodka round the back of supermarkets....

banondraig
January 9th, 2008, 02:40 PM
Oh, the usual kind of thing: car jacking, ramraiding, drinking vodka round the back of supermarkets....

Wow, European kids do grow up fast! Here they don't get started on that sort of thing til their teens, at least I don't think so. It depends on what "ramraiding" is.

LostSheep
January 9th, 2008, 02:44 PM
It's the art of stealing cars, driving them into the window of shops (typically liquor stores), and making off with the contents.
I believe it's part of the national curriculum now.

banondraig
January 9th, 2008, 02:54 PM
It's the art of stealing cars, driving them into the window of shops (typically liquor stores), and making off with the contents.
I believe it's part of the national curriculum now.

!

And I thought "glassing" was bad!

LisaT4P
January 9th, 2008, 06:50 PM
Of course, we don't have any .... secret handshakeAnd why not? I think we should! :abanana:

LisaT4P
January 9th, 2008, 06:52 PM
The kids did seem very idealised and maybe 1950's-ish to me. Very much like the movies Radio Flyer or The Sandlot, maybe. Even a little more innocent than the show The Wonder Years, maybe. :) But, I think maybe it was intentional, he is the son of the devil... so maybe they were beating us over the head with "you're not BORN bad, you have to make yourself (or be made) that way".

banondraig
January 10th, 2008, 11:43 AM
The kids did seem very idealised and maybe 1950's-ish to me. Very much like the movies Radio Flyer or The Sandlot, maybe. Even a little more innocent than the show The Wonder Years, maybe. :) But, I think maybe it was intentional, he is the son of the devil... so maybe they were beating us over the head with "you're not BORN bad, you have to make yourself (or be made) that way".

I think you've got it there.

They are younger than the "Wonder Years" kids. I remember this because I had a huge crush on Fred Savage when it was on the air. _inabox_

LisaT4P
January 10th, 2008, 08:32 PM
I was googling for possible questions and came across a blog where one reader said they felt that this book was basically a parody of the move "Omen". While I could definitely see some similarities, I don't necessarily agree with that. How about you guys?

banondraig
January 11th, 2008, 10:20 AM
it sounds pretty likely just based on what i know about the authors, but i've never seen "the omen", so i couldn't say.

saturday night live did a great parody of "the omen" when it came out, though. :) they called "The OintMENt". :lol:

LostSheep
January 11th, 2008, 12:15 PM
I was googling for possible questions and came across a blog where one reader said they felt that this book was basically a parody of the move "Omen". While I could definitely see some similarities, I don't necessarily agree with that. How about you guys?

I think that's probably true, not just that one but the whole genre that The Omen spawned (as it were), at least with the basic theme of the son of satan; I think what makes this one different is the other characters - Aziraphale and Crowley, the witchfinders, etc.

incidentally, I notice from the Wiki page on it (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_Omens) that it says
Adam blissfully and naively uses his powers, creating around him the world of Just William (because he thinks that's what an English child's life should be like), which seems to more or less agree with the theory that we decided.

Arianne Weaver
January 11th, 2008, 02:53 PM
Hi, me again!
I agree with LostSheep that it is definately an "omen genre" parody, and also with what he found on Wikipedia:
Adam blissfully and naively uses his powers, creating around him the world of Just William (because he thinks that's what an English child's life should be like)
but not sure that it's because he thinks that's what it should be like. Many English books for pre-teens have this sort of feel (althiough, also, many others don't).

Adam discusses dividing up the world, but all he wants is things to stay the same in his little bit of it. It's just occurred to me that maybe this is a "garden of Eden" scenario - a perfect world that he has to grow out of to grow as a person - or am I reading too much into this?

I did like the bikers. The idea that they think they're real hard men, but are really what we call in England "sad" - meaning pathetic and inadequate. The funny side of it to me is that they are so caught up in their own self-importance, for example the names - but it never occurs to any of them that they're not actually supernatural and were never mentioned in the Book of Revelations - and they're totally beneath the notice of the real Bikers of the Apocalypse.
Is this another comment on the human condition? We're so self absorbed we fail to notice the really obvious?

Thanks for including me, and let me know when you've decided on the secret handshake!
Arianne.

Arianne Weaver
January 11th, 2008, 03:03 PM
Me again ! Sorry, LostSheep - just looked at your symbol, and you're female and I said "He". Oops!
_whistle_

banondraig
January 11th, 2008, 03:41 PM
Me again ! Sorry, LostSheep - just looked at your symbol, and you're female and I said "He". Oops!
_whistle_

You were right the first time. Both gender markers point downward, for some reason not known to myself, and his has the little pointy arrow for male. :hahugh:

banondraig
January 11th, 2008, 03:47 PM
Hi, me again!
I agree with LostSheep that it is definately an "omen genre" parody, and also with what he found on Wikipedia:
Adam blissfully and naively uses his powers, creating around him the world of Just William (because he thinks that's what an English child's life should be like)
but not sure that it's because he thinks that's what it should be like. Many English books for pre-teens have this sort of feel (althiough, also, many others don't).


Adam discusses dividing up the world, but all he wants is things to stay the same in his little bit of it. It's just occurred to me that maybe this is a "garden of Eden" scenario - a perfect world that he has to grow out of to grow as a person - or am I reading too much into this?

Interesting. Given that Neil Gaiman had a hand in this, it's probably meant to be there.

One of my high school English teachers had a theory about symbolism. He called it the "squished rabbit theory".

Essentially, symbolism is like a squished rabbit in the road. You don't know, and it doesn't matter, whether a previous driver made a point of running it over, swerved to avoid it, or simply had no idea it was there. That you perceive the squished rabbit is what is important.


I did like the bikers. The idea that they think they're real hard men, but are really what we call in England "sad" - meaning pathetic and inadequate. The funny side of it to me is that they are so caught up in their own self-importance, for example the names - but it never occurs to any of them that they're not actually supernatural and were never mentioned in the Book of Revelations - and they're totally beneath the notice of the real Bikers of the Apocalypse.
Is this another comment on the human condition? We're so self absorbed we fail to notice the really obvious?

It could well be.


Thanks for including me, and let me know when you've decided on the secret handshake!
Arianne.

Bah! Secret handshakes would make this like one of those snooty nightclubs where the dude at the front door decides whether or not you're cool enough to deserve the privilege of paying his establishment $10 for a single cocktail.

LostSheep
January 11th, 2008, 03:53 PM
Me again ! Sorry, LostSheep - just looked at your symbol, and you're female and I said "He". Oops!
_whistle_


You were right the first time. Both gender markers point downward, for some reason not known to myself, and his has the little pointy arrow for male. :hahugh:

It's ok, I'm rarely sure myself.
:hahugh:

banondraig
January 11th, 2008, 03:57 PM
It's ok, I'm rarely sure myself.
:hahugh:

:huh: ok then . . .

LostSheep
January 11th, 2008, 04:00 PM
Hi, me again!
Adam discusses dividing up the world, but all he wants is things to stay the same in his little bit of it. It's just occurred to me that maybe this is a "garden of Eden" scenario - a perfect world that he has to grow out of to grow as a person - or am I reading too much into this?
I'm not so sure it isn't. I suspect Gaiman or Pratchett chose the name "Adam" for a reason, and remember that it does open in the Garden of Eden, with Crawley (as he was then) wondering if he'd done the right thing, and if Aziraphale had done the wrong thing... that they were the ones responsible for it all in the first place, and, given their not 100% success rate, maybe they'd started off with everything the wrong way round and it was up to Adam (the new Adam) to put things right.

Gosh, how was that for a piece of analysis.

LisaT4P
January 11th, 2008, 05:10 PM
Wow. That was nice. Good job. LOL

I loved the bikers names. One of my favorite bits, made me laugh myself silly. :D

Arianne Weaver
January 20th, 2008, 04:05 PM
What does everyone think about
1) What will happen now the Plan has been seen to be only part of "the Ineffable Plan" - new new Adam? War or not?
2) The view that the Angels & Demons are both really just looking at humans as a means to an end, & we are really not that important?
Love, Arianne.
PS Glad we got that gender thing sorted out, LostSheep -mmmm- I think?

banondraig
January 23rd, 2008, 01:20 PM
1) Maybe a new new Adam, I don't know.

2)I think we also look at angels and demons as means to an end. We want the angels to help us solve all of our problems, and we want the demons to serve as scapegoats.

As for the horsepersons:

1) Do you think it is significant that the authors chose to portray War, and no other, as female? What do you think the significance of that is?

2) Has pollution really replaced pestilence, or does this only apply in industrialized societies?

3) Why do we think looking half-starved is somehow attractive, anyway?

LisaT4P
January 25th, 2008, 03:00 PM
Interesting that only War is a woman. It might be a commentary on how so many fights are started over women. LOL Helen of Troy anyone? Whatever anyone else says, I still think it is sex that makes the world go 'round.

Pollution & Pestilence kind of go hand in hand, don't they? Perhaps not though... with the exception of a few viruses I'd say that western society is mostly pest-free, not like some third world countries where bugs often cause illnesses. Interesting point.

Do we think looking half-starved is attractive? I like a woman who has a little meat on her bones (i happen to have a bit too much). I've always been happy in a size 14. Women should have curves. Men should be strong, not starved. I've never really understood it.

banondraig
January 25th, 2008, 03:10 PM
:lol: about War.

It seems to me that many third world countries are moving towards being plagued by both pollution and pestilence. They don't have widespread modern health care or preventive measures, and they are now burning fossil fuels and using chemicals which have been banned in first world countries.

Certainly many fashion models appear half-starved. Maybe that is just Famine trying to do his thing. If you can't prevent food from being produced, prevent people from eating it. That's actually how the potato famine in Ireland came about. There was plenty of wheat on rich, mostly absentee, people's land, but they preferred to export it in order to get higher prices, thereby causing those who relied on the potato crop to starve.

Kalena
January 29th, 2008, 12:28 PM
Personally I have always found it prudent to play and/or sing BR when joining the M25 ... in a bizarre way it does actually work.

The footnotes are funny ... what is even funnier is trying to explain the significance of Milton Keynes to a Canadian.

banondraig
January 29th, 2008, 12:33 PM
Personally I have always found it prudent to play and/or sing BR when joining the M25 ... in a bizarre way it does actually work.

The footnotes are funny ... what is even funnier is trying to explain the significance of Milton Keynes to a Canadian.

BR?

Kalena
January 29th, 2008, 12:38 PM
Bohemian Rhapsody.

Lunacie
January 29th, 2008, 12:45 PM
I did love the way the classic car had been retrofitted with a CD player, but every tape eventually began playing something from Bohemian Rhapsody. :lol:

Maybe that's especially funny to me because I had a minivan a few years ago that seemed haunted, in mid song it would switch to a Christian music station. :(

banondraig
January 29th, 2008, 12:50 PM
Bohemian Rhapsody.

Thanks.


I did love the way the classic car had been retrofitted with a CD player, but every tape eventually began playing something from Bohemian Rhapsody. :lol:

Maybe that's especially funny to me because I had a minivan a few years ago that seemed haunted, in mid song it would switch to a Christian music station. :(

Bah, that's just crossed wires or similar.

Lunacie
January 29th, 2008, 12:59 PM
Thanks.



Bah, that's just crossed wires or similar.

Maybe ... if it switched stations randomly. But it always switched to the same religious station (one I never listened to).

banondraig
January 29th, 2008, 01:10 PM
Maybe ... if it switched stations randomly. But it always switched to the same religious station (one I never listened to).

That makes it more likely, actually, especially if it broadcast on a frequency near to one of your favorite stations.

Lunacie
January 29th, 2008, 01:55 PM
I don't remember ever looking to see what frequency they were broadcasting on, just pushed the pre-select number for my favorite station and kept on driving.

banondraig
January 29th, 2008, 08:58 PM
I don't remember ever looking to see what frequency they were broadcasting on, just pushed the pre-select number for my favorite station and kept on driving.

Oh well. It'll remain a mystery then, though I really think it's just some form of electronic snafu.

Philosophia
January 29th, 2008, 10:12 PM
Just a little note:

I finally got the book! :woot:

banondraig
January 30th, 2008, 10:21 AM
Just a little note:

I finally got the book! :woot:

:woot:

There's still plenty of time to discuss it, too. The new one won't start for several more weeks.

Shatril
January 30th, 2008, 06:13 PM
I finally got the book :( Now it is time for the next one. :rollingla

banondraig
January 30th, 2008, 06:43 PM
I finally got the book :( Now it is time for the next one. :rollingla

Time for the next one won't start til six weeks from now. You and Philosophia can discuss to your hearts' content. :)

SolitaryScholar
August 30th, 2008, 03:21 PM
I've got to say that I love-love-love-love-love Good Omens. The Prachett-Gaiman combo is an absolutely brilliant one. I have to say that my favorite part in the book has to be when Crowley and Aziraphale have just a bit too much to drink.

Nests. They build nests.

That's birds.

Hahaha, it cracks me up every time! I must have read the book about eight times now. :lol: