Techno Witches

[Shy Hawk]

Okay, I have a very strong belief about this particular thing, but I want to see what you guys think.
Do you think that an individual's or a Tradition's BOS or Grimoire should be allowed online to the public? :confused:
Remember, there are a vast number of people doing spellwork before they know anything about magick, or are commited to any set of ethics and whatnot.
Do you think that maybe the section titled "Spells" should be the only section unavailable? Do you think that it all should be online? :confused: Or maybe that it should be available on request...but not displayed....
See here's what I think. There's too many confused 13 year olds who think that Wicca has to do with Satan. And, that it should be done at parties with friends, and that it's the next new thing. I think if it were harder to get info, or at least spells....we would see a reduction in the number of people who are in it for the "mysticism" of it.
I'm not sure if I explained my point well. But, hopefully, you understand. :) Thanks for listening....and do give imput.
Shy Hawk

[bluecat]

One word ... No.

This is what teaching and proper instruction is for, that (putting a BOS with "Spells & Such) would result in a shake and bake witch, we have too many of those. Just my NOT So Humble Opinion.

Blue

[LaDaya]

I'm also not happy with so many sites that have a "spell" section. First off, you should do the research and make your own spell. Not only will it work better but it will also be coming from you not someone else that you have no idea what they were intending when the spell was created. Second, there are too many out there that either aren't in the religion for the right reasons or are trying to damage our reputation. Putting spells up just makes it alot easier for those trying to harm or condemn us to do their work. I think that section should not be put up. Maybe put up an outline on how the spell can go but not put an actual spell up. Just my opinion.

[Shy Hawk]

Good point Bluecat.
Shy Hawk

[Shy Hawk]

LaDaya, I definately think that putting up an outline is the better way to go.
And of course, we know what the first spells that techno witches try are either curses or love spells......
Webmasters have to be responsible....or at least think about it.
Shy Hawk

[sherry]

Shy Hawk have you read thru the other threads there are several that are about the BOS and our feelings are on there!!everyone has different views on how they set up, what goes in but most agree not to put them in public display !! I mean these are the ones that are windows to your world every feeling I have and why it came to be is explained!!
So why on earth would I want them read while I am alive they would probably commit me to a comfy padded place with piped in organ music!!!! LOL

[Shy Hawk]

I have seen some of these threads...I have my thoughts on what should be in a BOS or Grimoire...but that's another thread altogether.
I agree, I wouldn't want anyone reading my BOS. lol :D
You don't need a spellbook to know how to be a Wiccan...it don't rightly make sense to me...ah well.
Shy Hawk

[sherry]

I to am from a strong line of borne witches, I find it necessary to follow tradition and the way I was taught is to keep a BOS this is your guide it is a way of life.
It also is the way of understanding where you are from and how much you have grown. UNLIKE the HOLLYWOOD ways of witches .

Many of the movies say exactly what you did!!
My personal opinion is that to be a traditional witch and follow in the footsteps of my family is to document everything because I do not want to learn the hard way I will learn from MY MISTAKES but why repeat the same ones my great grandmother did. Or worse my great great grandmother (she was a burned witch and I DO NOT WANT THAT)

So in short HOLLYWOOD can keep there opinions to thereselves and stop teaching wanna bees and making them think they are newbees

[Shy Hawk]

LOL
I totally agree.:D
Shy Hawk

[Xois]

What if the lessons one needs to learn includes screwing up with magick before they are ready? Are you perpared to make that decision for them?

We all have paths to walk and lessons to learn

Just my thoughts

Xois

[Shy Hawk]

I don't want to make anyone's decisions for them, however, I have screwed up with magick....a while back when intentions were not the same.
I can honestly say that my screwing up was the direct result of spellwork being so readily available.
I wouldn't have tried it, if it wasn't out there.
I'm much more mature now, and I realize my mistakes.
However, I agree with what you are saying....I can't make that decision for anyone else. However, it's my opinion alone.
Love and trust,
Shy Hawk

[Xois]

well, you know...i did too...and I wouldn't have learned as much about the power of magick if I hadn't have tried messing with it before I was ready! I never would have understood it!

and by the way, I did this 10 years ago, there was no internet to speak of and I was still, as a 16 year old girl, able to find enough in bookstores and (heavens forbid!) the library! :)

I come from NO line of witches, I am completely self made and self taught. And I do an aweful lot of mixing and matching to suit my personality. Personally, I think I am doing ok ;)

Xois

[Armitage]

Shy Hawk: No, the first stuff that *posers* try are curses and love spells....IMO 'techie witch' is a term for one who fits comfortably into modern technology with their beliefs.

[Mairwen]

Originally posted by Xois
What if the lessons one needs to learn includes screwing up with magick before they are ready? Are you perpared to make that decision for them?
We all have paths to walk and lessons to learn

We have five "lessons" which teach a student how to do Gwyddon magic ~ the second of those is a strong lesson on what NOT to do. 8O

[Shy Hawk]

I stand corrected Armitage. To everyone, thanks for the imput.
Shy hawk

[Elaine]

Honestly, I think that the ones that aren't serious about it won't take the time to study over things...... they'll go stratight for "how do I make him/her love me" and not care about anything else that your website has to say....plus....if they do poke around, they won't be around long anyways....the excitment would wear off after they realize that their "spells" don't work....those kind of people don't understand how magick works....this think it's like Sesame Street "A LA PEANUT BUTTER SANDWICHES" and POOF what they want has happened!! Once they realize that's not the way it is they'll get bored and find something else "cool" to play with for awhile until that wears off too! If someone is serious about going down a path, they will be patient and study and learn what what it all entails before they go off and try anything even ritualistic......I have not and will not attempt magick until I feel I am ready to.....and that is why I am confident coming on this website every day......because I respect the god and goddess and just plain don't feel I'm ready yet.....the people who aren't serious weed themselves out....probably pretty quickly I'm sure.......

just my opinion......maybe I'm still ignorant about some of the things I said, if so I apologise! but I just felt like I had to add:)

[Mairwen]

You hit the nail right on the head, Elaine!! :D

[Lavender]

I think Elaine summed it up quite nicely.

[Elaine]

I'm so glad you both agree:) I wasn't sure if I was very clear on what I was trying to get across....I'm glad I was....thank you:):p

[WolfSinger]

My own son, a young teen, at one time thought it would be cool to do spells. I handed him some books on the history of Wicca/Witchcraft, which include a lot of the theory and reasoning behind what we do.

He suddenly lost interest. Hehehe. I let him know that I would not allow him access to any spellwork until he had a solid understand of why we work this way and how everything works.

Most kids (can't include all of them, some actually have some sense!) are looking for an easy way out of or into a situation. They think a spell will do that for them.

I, for one, have never used a spell designed by someone else, even though I've only been on this path for a little over a year now. Simply because nothing I've ever seen posted has ever fit what I needed.

Just my two cents.

BB

[Nightwind]

I personally like having my spell section up. I only have relatively "harmless" spells (nightmares and such).

[Faery-Wings]

I have not and will not attempt magick until I feel I am ready to.....and that is why I am confident coming on this website every day......because I respect the god and goddess and just plain don't feel I'm ready yet....

This is how I feel too. And I have to say, I am somewhat surprised at how many websites that I have come across that have many spells on them. And if I see a site that has a *lot* of spells, I tend to think less of the site. It makes me wonder who they are attempting to attract to the site too.

Nightwind, I appreciate your opinion too. But you also show responsibitly by only having "harmless" spells, which will only help or hinder the person doing that spell.

Chris

[sherry]

:) This is exactly how I feel to and even though my path has been a long time I have only been practicing a little over a year!! I have always been afraid I would start something I couldn't finish.
I have been studying for 17+ years reading and keeping journals that is when a friend gave me my first book. Many things in there got my interest but not full understanding . Like most of the Cunningham books I had read they lead you to more books and it takes a while to get it all clear!!
My family started all of us kids out with what they call WISHCRAFT just to start with basic meditation and prayer. This is how we all got our start and my nieces are getting pretty good at it even though they are being raised Christian. And sending thought to children is amazing to see which ones are good receivers!!
My sister thinks it is cool to see her children stop messing everything up and start cleaning without a spoken word or crying and the kids come straight to me for their promised treat and never even question that they never heard a spoken word because to them they did!
My brothers children don't seem to be as good at this as my sisters but I don't have as strong of a bond with them. I will have to work on this area
;)

[Faery-Wings]

My sister thinks it is cool to see her children stop messing everything up and start cleaning without a spoken word or crying and the kids come straight to me for their promised treat and never even question that they never heard a spoken word because to them they did!

*This* I need to know!!!!!!!

Chris, mom to two crazy kids.....
:crazy:

[Mairwen]

Originally posted by WolfSinger
My own son, a young teen, at one time thought it would be cool to do spells. I handed him some books on the history of Wicca/Witchcraft, which include a lot of the theory and reasoning behind what we do.

He suddenly lost interest. Hehehe. I let him know that I would not allow him access to any spellwork until he had a solid understand of why we work this way and how everything works.

I had a man ask me once if I'd teach him how to do "magic". Having known this man (we're the same age) for several years before he asked me this, I was wary from the onset. I asked him all the requisite questions ~ to which he replied with all the wrong answers. He wanted it for the glitter, the glamour and the power. When I told him I wouldn't teach him "magic", he got mad and stormed off.

Besides, in my tradition, there's no way possible to Teach someone anything without that person being an Initiate ~ and on top of that "magic" just isn't that important to being a Gwyddon.

That's exactly what people don't like to hear. LOL! :D

[sherry]

Originally posted by chryssi1


*This* I need to know!!!!!!!

Chris, mom to two crazy kids.....
:crazy:


Mom did this with us growing up too and it worked!!
She just would start with ICE CREAM that sounds good and think about it to us and the fact we would go if everything was clean and it didn't take most of us long to know exactly what she was thinking and start in on cleaning
she says she would start us out at like 2 or 3 thinking for us to bring her something specific and just kept it going from there until we were all tuned in
My brother and sister talk in there sleep to each other and it was very hard for their spouces to deal with but they talk and answer each other from different states. She was in Ohio and He was in New York when they got a telephone call to verify that the other one was talking too
I guess it is a family thing but works quite well!!
It works well with most small children I am near too because my best friends daughter is one of those little angels that nobody likes to see in public but behaves when we go together

[bluecat]

Same with me Mairwen ... "Magic" is not important ... most people don't realize they do magic every day ... besides many want to do "Magic" for all the wrong reasons.

Blue :cool:

[Earth Walker]

Most people have a bad misconception of what magic
is, because of the way Pagans are portrayed on TV
or in movies, via Hollywood. :confused: :rolleyes:


Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent.:crazy:
---Isaac Asimov - Foundation

[Kaylara]

Well... When I was going to put up an on-line BOS, I was going to password-protect the whole thing... So that only members could see the information contained within... Just a thought. Members can view the information that they need, assignments, dates of meetings etc, but this information, along with information on spells and rituals would not be accessable to the general public.

Kaylara

[idusty88]

Originally posted by Nightwind
I personally like having my spell section up. I only have relatively "harmless" spells (nightmares and such).
I agreed with the viewpoint that publishing BOS' to the public is irresponsible. But after sitting here thinking about it for a minute, I think a tactic such as Nightwind's may be very appropriate. When you consider that most of these searching wannabes will have as their only prior source of information the disinformation of the religious right which says witches sacrifice animals or make pledges to satan. It may be a healthy thing for them to see that real witches don't do that, and that a chant, a candle or other tools and a boatload of intent can have an impact on reality. Also to consider, If ALL magic working is kept secret then it reinforces the untrue idea of the religious right that there is something evil going on.

[bluecat]

Originally posted by idusty88

I agreed with the viewpoint that publishing BOS' to the public is irresponsible. But after sitting here thinking about it for a minute, I think a tactic such as Nightwind's may be very appropriate. When you consider that most of these searching wannabes will have as their only prior source of information the disinformation of the religious right which says witches sacrifice animals or make pledges to satan. It may be a healthy thing for them to see that real witches don't do that, and that a chant, a candle or other tools and a boatload of intent can have an impact on reality. Also to consider, If ALL magic working is kept secret then it reinforces the untrue idea of the religious right that there is something evil going on.

Not a bad thought, but you have to know that those folks who want to find wrong will simply say that there is still some hidden stuff that you are not showing. You will not be able to win and by giving them a little, you just give them ammunition that you are "hiding" the "real" stuff. I have been thru that kind of garbage, they don't want to know the truth, it would defeat their "Holy" purpose. :eek:

It's just good to know that there are Christians out there who are not close minded jerks. :)

Blue :cool:

[Mairwen]

Originally posted by Mystique
Most people have a bad misconception of what magic
is, because of the way Pagans are portrayed on TV
or in movies, via Hollywood. :confused: :rolleyes:


As well, some people are just plain power hungry. :rolleyes:

[cydira]

For my part, I'd have to say that I have something of an ethical dilemma on the issue of publishing your BoS. While some of the information would be helpful to dispel (pun not intended) the harmful lies that are spread about paganism, magic and the craft, it could also be used to harm. Even something that is written with the intent to heal some one can possibly be used to bring harm. <bites her lip and thinks some more>

To be honest, your BoS is something that you have either personally developed (in the case of solitary practitioners like myself) or recieved (in part or as a whole) from your coven/group/what ever. In many respects, these books contain information that is sacred and should be held with high regard because it is a refined image of the beliefs that are held by you. This is not something that I would display publically for others to sneer at, deface or other wise profane. It would hurt me deeply and also insult my beliefs.

If you wanted to explain to the world how magic works, you don't use a spell. You explain what magic is and how it works. This, however, can be dangerous. There are some practices that are hidden or kept away from the public community's direct view for a reason. Magic can cause harm. It is not some warm, plesant thing set in this world for the delight and self gratification of the practitioner. It is a tool, like any other thing in this world could be once we begin to work with it. Like all tools, one must understand how it works and be learned in the correct situations to use it.

I can't claim to know everything about magic or the craft. I can't claim that by any of my wildest dreams. I do know that if you teach something about magic to another person you become partially responcible for their actions. You bind a section of their fate to yourself. In creating a published BoS (in any media, be it electronic, print or audio), you make yourself partially responcible for anyone that reviews it because your work is teaching them. Do I have a BoS? Yes, I have a small hand written one. Am I going to share it with the world? No, I don't think I can handle the responciblity of teaching that many people how to be responcible with magic and how to keep at least themselves safe.

Sorry if this was a little long winded or sounded kinda "preachy." I didn't intend for it too. I am still learning about the Craft and many of the books that discuss the craft are interesting and helpful. Some of the published BoS that I have seen have also been helpful. But there are more ways to educate individuals about magic and about magical belief systems (such as paganism) then by publishing your core teachings and recipies that are intended for trained individuals. <shrugs>

But that's my opinion and my thoughts. I don't know how others see this issue, but this thread is teaching me alot. :)

[Shy Hawk]

Thanks for all the responses guys...I didn't expect such a response.
I have learned a lot too, about two sides to every issue....I guess I'll have to pray on (or meditate, if you prefer it) how I feel about this.
Shy Hawk:D

[Mariposa De La Luna]

Originally posted by sherry



Mom did this with us growing up too and it worked!!
She just would start with ICE CREAM that sounds good and think about it to us and the fact we would go if everything was clean and it didn't take most of us long to know exactly what she was thinking and start in on cleaning
she says she would start us out at like 2 or 3 thinking for us to bring her something specific and just kept it going from there until we were all tuned in
My brother and sister talk in there sleep to each other and it was very hard for their spouces to deal with but they talk and answer each other from different states. She was in Ohio and He was in New York when they got a telephone call to verify that the other one was talking too
I guess it is a family thing but works quite well!!
It works well with most small children I am near too because my best friends daughter is one of those little angels that nobody likes to see in public but behaves when we go together


This is great!!! you should post it in the Pagan Family forum and any other neat witchy family stuff you have that you can share.

[Dria El]

Originally posted by Shy Hawk
Okay, I have a very strong belief about this particular thing, but I want to see what you guys think.
Do you think that an individual's or a Tradition's BOS or Grimoire should be allowed online to the public? :confused:
Remember, there are a vast number of people doing spellwork before they know anything about magick, or are commited to any set of ethics and whatnot.
Do you think that maybe the section titled "Spells" should be the only section unavailable? Do you think that it all should be online? :confused: Or maybe that it should be available on request...but not displayed....
See here's what I think. There's too many confused 13 year olds who think that Wicca has to do with Satan. And, that it should be done at parties with friends, and that it's the next new thing. I think if it were harder to get info, or at least spells....we would see a reduction in the number of people who are in it for the "mysticism" of it.
I'm not sure if I explained my point well. But, hopefully, you understand. :) Thanks for listening....and do give imput.
Shy Hawk

In just a few words... NO, absolutely not. I don't want the responsibility.

Dria El