the importance of a higher power in magick

[Haedis]

I've noticed that in a lot of books that discuss magick the author makes it clear that in order to work successful magick you HAVE to work through God (used generically cuz i'm lazy). That doesnt really make sense to me, whether they take it to mean that you have to grovel to God in order to get magick to work, or that you draw on the power of the Goddess for a desire to manifest.

I thought this line of thinking was more of a Wiccan thing (since not all witches incorperate religion into witchcraft)...but that still doesnt make sense because many Wiccans define magick by "manipulating energy in accordance with ones will"...a definition which makes no mention of a higher power.

Though its just my opinion, I think that a spell succeeds because we had the right combination of will, intent, focus, etc. not because we said "God, pretty please with sugar on top" which is how some books make spell work sound (Teen Witch comes to mind). I do understand that not everyone who believes this takes it to that extent though.

I'm just wondering how big of a role you think a higher power or deity plays in magickal workings and why.

[Mithrea]

For me, it depends on the magical working. I think it's clear that different people believe different things, so while some believe they need a higher power involved other do not. It's just personal preference.

Sometimes I call upon the aid or power of a particular diety but often (and again, depending on the work involved) I only use what power I have, relying on my ability to manipulate energy, objects, beings, etc. But never, does the outcome of a spell (IMHO) require the arbitrary favor of a deity. I used to say things like if your spell doesn't work then it wasn't meant to be. . . . but the more I study and learn, he less I think that because I don't know what in the world I mean by "it wasn't meant to be." Who says?

[Myst]

I consider deity in its purest form to *be* energy. Thus, yes when I work magic I'm always working with divinity. I don't grovel but yes when I'm manipulating energy I feel I'm *asking* it to work to my will.

Some people use faces for the Gods as symbols to better connect with energies, and that's why they ask specifically named deities for help. In core though I consider it the same thing as manipulating energy but without outright specifically saying "hey will you do this for me?". The Gods are within all of us, so even if we don't ask some named deity when we work energy we are asking ourselves to align in mundane and magical ways with the desired outcome, and thus it is still intertwined with deity.

In short, yes I think when you work with magic you are always working with divinity, even if it doesn't include a specific God's name or even a specific idea of deity.

[manstranger]

Well, my divinity is the universe. Everything in it is part of the divine. So yeah, when I work magic, i'm working with divinity, but it's in no way groveling or anything. I'm working with divinity because i beileve the thing's I am effecting are in the universe, and hence part of the divine.

I don't think I have to ask the goddess for every bit of power that I raise. I think the power that I raise is borrowed from elsewhere, but where is the universe. So in a sense I need the divine to work magic, but only because of how i define the divine.

Make sense?

[Sequoia]

usually, when I do energy work. . . . I honestly couldn't tell ya exactly where the energy came from.

sometimes I call it from the world around me. Sometimes I call from a specific element. Sometimes I ask a deity for help. Most of the time I pull from this well inside me. . . not that I'm real sure where it got filled, but hey! *chuckles*

I don't think deity is ABSOLUTELY nessicary. . . but it never hurts to have a god(dess) on your side. The more gods that smile upon me, the better! :D

(always remember to thank if you get help - walking into doorjams is not fun :p )

[Haedis]

my thoughts exactly, Puma!