World Cultures and Paths.

[GabrielWithoutWings]

I'm still being a moron and attempting to find a belief system. I have a question for you pagan folks, specifically recons.

Does it bother you that your tradition or pantheon or whatever is rooted in a location that you may not live in and may never see? Does it bother you that you may have to ignore part of its literature?

Let me give an example before you yell at me.

The reason that I have a hard time accepting Hinduism as a belief system is the fact that it's rooted in the culture of the Indus Valley. They have a goddess of the Ganges River. Being an American, that doesn't really apply to me.

In Egypt, there are spells that deal specifically with the Nile River. Again, I'm an American and have no ties to the Nile River.

Hellenism's deities are tied to Mount Olympus in Greece. Even if they're not actually tied to Mount Olympus, it still figures in much of the telling.

Judaism is as much the belief system of Jewish monotheism as it is a race of people who believe they are descended from Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

Basically, I've done this to the point of excluding ALL belief systems. I don't even accept Native American beliefs because I'm not Native American.

Those that do not conform to a specific culture or area, such as eclectic Wicca, seem to be just "make it all up as you go along."

So...

Yeah.

[mystic_zoe]

wanting to find a belief system doesnt make you a moron!

being that i dont follow a recon path it is going to be hard for me to answer your question, but, just because a tradition is rooted in a specific location that you may never get the chance to go to, surely you can adapt it to your situation and location..i was just reading something in the Recon section for those that are new to Reconstruction, and although you would be trying to follow the same/similar beliefs, practices etc as your chosen ancient pagan culture, you would still need to adapt it to modern times but in a way which is still compatible

http://mysticwicks.com/showthread.php?t=158914

so would a similar thing not apply here?

like, you said in Egypt, there are some spells which deal with the Nile River, would there not be anything you could use which could symbolicaly represent it? i know nothing about that culture so i have no idea, same with Hellenic deities being tied to Mount Olympus, would there not be some way of symbolically representing Greece or Mount Olympus when in carrying out any rituals involving these deities?

just a thought and i was just using the examples that you used.

[Seren_]

There are plenty of Hindus outside of India, though, and they haven't necessarily been to India, and aren't necessarily even of Indian heritage. It's the third biggest religion in Britain, and I would expect the vast majority of Hindus in this country weren't born in India. Many do visit India on pilgrimmage, though, at some time in their life. It's the same for a lot of other religions, when adherents don't live in the country of origin.

Sticking with the example of Hinduism, traditional funerary practices involve cremation on a pyre. Since this is illegal in Britain, cremations generally take place at crematoriums instead, unless the family can afford to ship the body overseas. I believe the river Clyde or Forth (I can't remember which and google isn't being my friend) is designated as an official substitute for the Ganges as well.

From my own view, my beliefs and religion are much more than just a locality or culture, though that isn't to say culture isn't important to me, as a recon. I think gods are big enough and powerful enough to travel ;) Beliefs and cultures do, too.

I'm lucky enough to live in the country that I focus on but that hasn't always been the case and I don't think it's changed my approach to my spirituality all that much. I have to admit I find it much easier to connect with the land I live on and the spirits of the place since I've moved to Scotland, but as far as my relationships with the gods go I don't see much difference.

As a recon, because there are many things that have changed over time, and many practices that are no longer appropriate or possible in modern times, I adapt what I can. The aim of reconstruction isn't to do things exactly as they were done, but to bring them into an appropriately modern context.

I think the thread might belong in the recon forum, so I'll move it on over, if you don't mind, GabrielWithoutWings :)

[RainInanna]

YMMV and I understand Recons don't do things exactly as they were done, but that was one reason I am no longer Kemetic - I felt wrong about trying to fit into a spirituality so based on the rise and fall of the Nile, the desert, and the customs there. Ultimately I've come to create my own spirituality although I must admit it may be too eclectic for you liking - I don't make it up as I go along per se, but I do build a personal path from what I've learned about Wicca, Buddhism, Taoism, LaVeyan Satanism, pantheism, Dianic and other forms of Witchcraft, and New Age ideals.

Christopher Penczak has a book out called Ascension Magick that is probably most aligned with my thinking - I build a personal spiritual path as part of self-development and self-actualization. As Penczak shows, this can draw from any path that is useful, and though he does show a wide range of what is considered "classic" ascension magick in his book, I think the most important part is recognizing spirituality as personal and valid regardless of what religion you call it.

This isn't plain laziness or "magpie spirituality" for me. It's about being who I am, not trying to find a religion that fits because none do - but instead spiritualizing myself. Yes it involves New Age ideas, meditation, yoga, chakra balancing, tarot, astrology, dream interpretation, and study into mythology, psychology, cognitive behavioural therapy, neuro-linguistic programming, self-improvement and life-coaching techniques.

Some will call it New Age crap. *shrugs* I don't care, I take what works and use it.

[Aveline]

The reason that I have a hard time accepting Hinduism as a belief system is the fact that it's rooted in the culture of the Indus Valley. They have a goddess of the Ganges River. Being an American, that doesn't really apply to me.

I see religion, ALL religions, as man's attempt to explain the Divine, which is, inherently *unexplainable*. I believe that the Hindi people in India worship the goddess of the Ganges River because that is the river that draws them... but does that mean that THAT river is the sole representation of the goddess? No, I do not believe so. Is there any body of water that draws you? Anything body of water that you find particularly peaceful and... well, divine? Then perhaps, that is the representation of the goddess for you.

This of course assumes that Hinduism calls most strongly to you... I use it only as an example.


I too, am still searching for my "path"... I've eliminated many... I've found aspects of several that call to me. As RainInamma said, you can draw from several different paths if that is what calls you. Find what is meaningful to you and follow what brings YOU closer to the divine. And quit calling yourself a moron... 'cuz if you're a moron for still searching for your path, then so am I and *whine* I don't wanna be a moron! :hehehehe:

[GabrielWithoutWings]

This of course assumes that Hinduism calls most strongly to you... I use it only as an example.

Well, thats my point. Nothing calls to me and it feels near disrespectful to usurp the deities of another culture that I don't belong to.

Hence, I haven't exactly been running off to east Tennessee to hit up the Cherokee folks... because I'm not a Cherokee.

I suppose I could go towards Middle-Northern Europe, but I feel no connection with them, either.

Thats kind of what sucks being an American. I don't really have a culture of my own. We have amalgamations of other cultures to the point of cultural eclecticism.

I suppose the only local spiritual belief available would be southern Protestantism and... yeah, thats not my cup of tea.



As far as being a moron, I just keep getting disappointed. Sometimes I feel like I'm choosing between make-believe and realization of nothingness.

:dis:

[seapearls]

GabrielWithoutWings,

It is for the reasons that you listed that many find their perfect place in the religion of their ancestors; because no matter where you are, the history and old ways are always with you. It's in your blood and goes wherever you go, therefore your never out of place.

Well, thats my point. Nothing calls to me and it feels near disrespectful to usurp the deities of another culture that I don't belong to.

Spoken like a true ancestralist, if you like PM me and I can help you find your way. Or read the New to Reconsctuction Thread (http://mysticwicks.com/showthread.php?t=158914).

I would caution against picking and chosing to make a mish mash religion, it is disrespecful to the gods and their true followers.

[GabrielWithoutWings]

That would be great but I feel no calling to European gods of any kind, either. Those aren't my gods and aren't my people, even if I'm descended from them.

[Aveline]

That would be great but I feel no calling to European gods of any kind, either. Those aren't my gods and aren't my people, even if I'm descended from them.

So why seek to identify any gods? Obviously you feel some sort of spirituality. Go with what does feel right. Do runes interest you? Do you believe in spirits? Do you feel most in touch with god (by whatever name) when you watch a sunset? What is it that touches your sense of spirituality and the divine? Start there and become comfortable with that. Maybe *your* path isn't a strict pre-defined set of beliefs.

[GabrielWithoutWings]

So why seek to identify any gods?

Other people identify with gods. I can't for some reason, and was wondering what other people's opinions are on assuming deities not in their culture.

Obviously you feel some sort of spirituality.

*points at the user title that says 'agnostic'*

Go with what does feel right.

Nothing really feels right. Sometimes it sort of makes sense, but it usually sounds like a bunch of make-believe.

Do runes interest you?

In what way? For divinatory practices? No.

Do you believe in spirits?

I'm agnostic. I dunno.

Do you feel most in touch with god (by whatever name) when you watch a sunset?

No. Nothing makes, nor has ever made me feel that way. I've never had a peak experience where I "felt" something.

What is it that touches your sense of spirituality and the divine?

Nothing really. I'm not sure if "the divine" is even real.

Start there and become comfortable with that. Maybe *your* path isn't a strict pre-defined set of beliefs.

An agnostic doesn't really have a path. We sort of just stand there and scratch our heads a lot of the time.

Besides, the point of this thread was not about me. It was about all of you who, unlike me, can somehow believe in all sorts of things. You have all this wonder in your life and I don't understand why I don't feel the same way.

The questions in the OP were:

Does it bother you that your tradition or pantheon or whatever is rooted in a location that you may not live in and may never see? Does it bother you that you may have to ignore part of its literature?

[seapearls]

Does it bother you that your tradition or pantheon or whatever is rooted in a location that you may not live in and may never see?

No because I have been to the old country and plan to go again in the future. Plus my immigrant ancestors came to the US and brought their traditions with them, so in a way I am there. My ancestors gave me the days of my week, the folk stories I grew up listening to, and the foods I grew up eating.

Does it bother you that you may have to ignore part of its literature?

Why would I have to do that, all of it's literature is open to me ?

[Aveline]

to answer your original post:


[QUOTE]
Does it bother you that your tradition or pantheon or whatever is rooted in a location that you may not live in and may never see?


Yes, it does. That's why I consider myself to be a student... a seeker of knowledge. My spiritual path is my own and does not belong to anybody else. Though I've learned through my readings that the Finnish name for god is Jumala (who may or may not be connected to Odin) I cannot worship Jumala or Odin... it doesn't feel "right" to me. I'm learning about their beliefs (the ancient Finns), but they remain THEIR beliefs...

With that said, I have found so many aspects of the beliefs of the ancient Finns that DO resonate with me. They are animists to the degree that everything has a spirit (haltija)... they used runes for divination... they were ancestralists believing in the power of their pasts and family histories...

Does it bother you that you may have to ignore part of its literature?

Yep... because I cannot read the Kalevala and the other epic Finnish poetry in the original Finnish, it does bother me... and that is one of the reasons I cannot be a strict reconstructionist... instead, I find inspiriation wherever god or the gods choose to inspire me and a make that a part of myself and my spiritual path.

[Xentor]

There are ways to be faithful and even religious, without being tied to someone else's geographical location.

My own path has pantheistic tendencies. We see the universe itself as deity. We can never be outside of the universe. Other pantheists see the Earth as a goddess to worship. It's rare for humans to be away from this planet.

And Wicca doesn't tie its followers to a specific location either. Its teachers can be found to say that in order to have a working method, it has to be adapted to properties of the local geography and seasons.

If you don't feel called by or drawn to anything, you might be a skeptic or an atheist. Those people also are void of ties to one specific geographic location.

Plenty to choose from and try out, I'd say.