Do you need ceremony?

[TygerTyger]

I was raised as a Christian and attended church from an early age. A move to the other side of the city broke that link with the church and I suppose I went my own way and drifted into Pantheism.

Whenever I have returned to a church, for a wedding or a funeral, I’ve always found the ceremonial aspects of the service uncomfortable. I cannot explain it, it is very subjective, but I basically don’t like it. This not limited to just the practice of Christianity, I feel the same about any ceremonial activity, which is not a criticism of anyone else’s practices.

Reading the se boards and talking to other people it seems that many feel a need for ceremony that I don’t understand. For me God and existence are one and the same. God exists outside any building dedicated to the divine and not always within it. Watching a sunrise or sunset it, for me, the closest I come to ceremony. Whenever I see something that moves me or reminds me of the miracle of life I thank God in a very simple but honest way and that is enough.

So, do you need ceremony in your spirituality and, if you do, why?

[Treegoddess]

For me, ceremony and worship are part of why I came to find Paganism & Witchcraft. (before I was just...floating along not really defining my beliefs) I wanted to CONNECT with my spirituality and feel it more in my daily life. For me, having some ceremony, rituals, & worship keep me grounded and connected to the Goddess. :)

[Lilium]

Before I drifted away from Christianity completely, I began to find the ceremony lacking. When I was a new Christian it seemed so great and wonderful but as time went on church services just dragged. Every communion was the same...the same words, the same actions, carried out and said by the same people. I felt like I was just going through the motions of it all and that it gave me no real feeling of connection anymore.

I do like ceremony...it is part of my spirituality and it does make me feel connected to The Divine but only really when it's me that's carrying out the ritual. That's one of the things that appeals to me so much about paganism...the fact that there's no mediator between me and The Divine.

That said, I don't feel I need ritual...I happen to like it and use it but there are plenty of times when I feel that connection without it.

[Solya]

I don't like ceremonies I can't actively participate in, so that's one of the reasons why I drifted away from Christianity in the past. I do need ceremony in my spiritual life, but it is never planned out in great detail and I just really make it up as I go along. :smile: I don't like just going through the motions at all, lol.

I am always connected with the Divine, of course, but ceremony helps remind me of the fact that I can actively place this connection in my daily life and use it to whatever ends. It's a conscious reminder of the subconscious connection.

[TygerTyger]

I identify with the “just going through the motions” feeling, that is definitely a turn off for me with mainstream Christianity. I also agree with the role of a conventional priest as middleman between me and God, it is, to my mind, just another obstacle.

However, I am curious as to exactly why some people need a degree of ceremony in their spirituality and what they think they gain by it? Does it matter if the ceremony is ad hoc, as suggested above, or more constructed as in observance of custom and tradition? Are ceremonies more about the people who take part in them than the actual acts themselves? Does it take a ceremony to bring you closer to the divine?

[Aveline]

I feel more like you Tygertyger. I am uncomfortable with the ceremonial aspects of many religions. I see it as a personal preference. Some people prefer and actually feel closer to the divine when using pre-set ceremonies. For some, it is the repetition and the knowing what to expect that brings them to a place (mentally) where they can be receptive to the divine.

For me, I feel more connected when I allow it to "just happen" spontaneously. When I feel the touch of the divine, I pause and center myself so that I can open up/be receptive to the moment. Now, there are times when I seek that connection... but the methods that I use to bring myself into a better place of receptivity vary depending on my location, mood, how I'm feeling, what my reasons are for wanting that connection, etc.

[WillowsMuse]

For me, ceremony and worship are part of why I came to find Paganism & Witchcraft. (before I was just...floating along not really defining my beliefs) I wanted to CONNECT with my spirituality and feel it more in my daily life...

Exactly.

I crave ceremony. And find I am a happier person when I have it in my life, even ceremony not related to my religion.

[RavensEye]

So, do you need ceremony in your spirituality and, if you do, why?I do not need ceremony , but I like to have it. When you have three kids such as I sometimes it is nice just to have the time to devote to doing a ceremony/ritual. I usually feel more happy and satisfied when I have had time to devote to my cermonies/ rituals to.

Originally Posted by Treegoddess [original] (http://mysticwicks.com/showthread.php?p=3421613#post3421613)

For me, ceremony and worship are part of why I came to find Paganism & Witchcraft. (before I was just...floating along not really defining my beliefs) I wanted to CONNECT with my spirituality and feel it more in my daily life...
Yep I can so relate to that :) And it is a struggle to stay connected at times but I do find it well worth it .:smile:

[Windsmith]

It's 2 things for me. The first is that I am a ham. Ever since I was knee-high to the queen bee, I've had a flair for the dramatic and the theatrical. Love it. Can't get enough of it. Religious ceremony fulfills an old, deep-seated thirst in me for that flair.

The other thing is that, as a Pantheist, my reverence is for All That Is. All That Is! That's a lotta stuff! I often feel pretty overwhelmed when I think about it. Ceremony and ritual helps me focus, perhaps on a single aspect of All That Is, or a single means of interconnection. I feel less overwhelmed.

I don't absolutely need ceremony. I can go outside for a walk, or watch a honeybee flitting around a flower, or see how long it takes my cat to rescue his toy from under the refrigerator, and understand that the cat, the toy, the refrigerator, the flower, the bee, and I are all part of All That Is. That is a spiritual experience for me, too, no ceremony required. But it often feels too passive for me. I'm just observing the connection; I'm not doing anything about it. And I know full well that All That Is doesn't give a rodent's posterior what I "do" about it. It doesn't care if I celebrate or give thanks or use the energy of that connection for magic. But it matters to me. It helps me feel better, and that in turn impacts how I interact with others. That, to me, is a central differentiations between being "spiritual" and being "religious." I can be spiritual without doing anything; just knowing and observing my connection to All That Is is enough. But to be religious is to act on the knowledge of that connection. That's what ceremony does for me, and that's why I need it in my life.

[Lupabitch]

For me, ceremony is something special. It's not absolutely necessary, but it's a definite bonus in my practice. It's taking extra effort to create just the right setting to commune with the Powers That Be.

It's kind of like my relationship with my husband. Sure, we could spend every single night sitting at home on our respective computers or watching DVDs, and still be contentedly married. However, we like to go out on dates, too, do something fun and really bond with each other. We also like to buy each other gifts, or do other special things "just because". We don't have to do those things, but we like to.

It's the same thing with ceremony. I don't do the same thing every time, but the spirits and deities I work with appreciate the extra effort, and it also makes the time more special to me. Not that hiking or meditating aren't special, but there's that added effort to it.

[Brigid Rowan]

Im shy. For me, I like my er, ceremony, if one can call it that, to happen and unfold in my head. My alter is here in the house, but I dont use it unless Im alone. I am just kinda a one on one person...

[LostSheep]

Good questions. I wonder if it's because, as a pantheist, you sense the divine all around you all the time, while for something like mainstream Christianity, which says that it's the only way to get access to God, then there needs to be rituals and ceremony to, if you want to be cynical I suppose, keep it all separate from everyday life, something mysterious that needs the ceremonial of the church to make contact with.

having said that, I think ceremonial can also be a good way to feel belonging with something, but you have to believe in what you're doing, and not just going along with it because it's laid down in a book written 500 years ago.

[cheddarsox]

Ceremony/ritual...can be shortcuts to a certain mindset, that is what I gain from it when I use it. Like a bedtime ritual helps me (or a kid) calm down and get ready for sleep by shortcutting me to that "sleep" state. Rituals..be they birthday parties, making holiday cookies, or setting up the ofrenda for Days of the Dead...serve as shortcuts to a mindset and set of emotions...an emotional bank that I have created.

If I never made a deposit in the emotional bank, if I never invested meaning into the ritual in the first place, then there is nothing to draw on later, and the ritual will be meaningless...just motions.

I'm sure I do need ritual in my life...it makes it easier to get through the day because some of it is mapped out for me. I also need spontaneity.

Most of my rituals are born organically, I don't plan that I am creating a ritual that will meet a specific need and will be done a certain way at a certain time for the rest of my life. Things become ritual...because they work, so I am motivated to repeat them..until they stop working for me and are replaced by something better.

Rituals are great tools, but poor masters. I use them if and when they serve, they don't use or control me.

I am a pantheist too. And ritual has helped me grow spiritually, helps me connect in a more focused way as Windsmith said. It serves my personality, and is a nice way for me to be able to share aspects of my faith with others as well. I have many friends who enjoy my spiritual traditions, and look forward to observing certain holy days with me.

Rituals don't keep me from enjoying or being moved by the spontaneous. In fact, staying open to the spontaneous..IS one of my rituals. (remembering to stay open and aware)

cheddar

[TygerTyger]

Some interesting responses. I suppose the idea of focusing in on the idea of one’s beliefs is what I really expected. However, the theme of connecting with the divine is one that I also understand.

I have often felt that the more mundane aspects of life can sometimes get in the way, you know, doing a job just to pay the bills, doing the chores around the hours, be available for other people and then, if I’m lucky, finding an hour or two in each day that I can spend on myself. Too often it’s not the time to renew my ‘connection’ with what I believe in a meaningful manner; I could see how a necessarily repetitive ceremony, such as going to church every Sunday, could help here.

[Treegoddess]

necessarily repetitive ceremony

I think I misunderstood the intent of your first question! I don't see the ceremony/rituals that I do as repetitive(or really necessary either...I just enjoy doing them sometimes). I understand after reading more of what you have posted though that this is coming from a Christian POV and I've never been a Christian, so I wasn't relating ceremony to that. I understand a little more now.

Although, I think Christians might say they do ceremony for similar reasons but for us, looking from the outside, it seems repetitive and pointless maybe only b/c we don't connect in the same way as them. Maybe for them it's not mundane?

[LacyRoze]

For me going to church on Sunday is more about connecting with other people who believe, at least somewhat, the same things I believe. I don't need to be in a church to feel a connection with God as I feel him with me wherever I may be. As for weddings, to me they are about celebrating your love and commitment with those you are close to. Funerals, for me, are about saying goodbye and sharing you grief, pain, memories, etc. with others who share those feelings. Sometimes ceremony and ritual help to slow me down and put me in the right frame of mind for quiet time , to help me let go of day to day mundane matters and focus on spiritual matters. I don't feel ritual and ceremony are always necessary however. There's a lot of room for spontanaity in my practice as well..

[TygerTyger]

My father is a protestant and my mother is a catholic, to appease her parents, who we lived near for many years, myself and my brothers had to attend the nearest church, which was Methodist, so yes I have an inevitable Christian point of view although I am now a Pantheist.

My early experience of Christians was reasonably positive, although I did used to wonder why we had to have some one droning on, reading from a book that we could all read at home, and why the hymn singing was so lacklustre? As I grew I realised that for a lot of people being religious just meant going to church every Sunday, more like a penance than a genuine ceremonial activity. I have, unfortunately, met some people who consider themselves religious because they go to church not because they follow Christ’s teachings, which they simply do not.

Having moved away from organized religion I found a freedom of expression in Pantheism that allowed me to make sense of my place in the world. I don’t feel the need for any formal ceremony but I am aware that others do no matter which path they follow.

I am curious, does it matter if I do not practice any particular ceremony other than a simple prayer, a bit of meditation and being awe inspired by the natural miracles I see around me?

I suppose where I am heading with this concerns the old parable of being religious and seeming to be religious.

[patch]

Ritual makes me happy.

It's a way I can actively show my love and respect for the gods.

[Windsmith]

I am curious, does it matter if I do not practice any particular ceremony other than a simple prayer, a bit of meditation and being awe inspired by the natural miracles I see around me?

I don't think it matters one whit, as long as it doesn't matter to you. You can look around and see other people around you performing ceremonials and rituals up the wa-hoo, but if it doesn't mean anything to you, then just do what does mean something to you, like simple prayers, a bit of meditation, and awe. That's more than a lot of people (even a lot of so-called religious people) ever take the time to do.

I suppose where I am heading with this concerns the old parable of being religious and seeming to be religious.Something else I'm wondering here is whether you feel there's a difference between being "spiritual" and being "religious." Maybe that's part of where the friction come in. You can be spiritual without any sort of framework - just being out in the Universe and appreciating its miraculousness. Adding the framework - rituals or church services, magic, a specific calendar of holy days - in my mind, that's a big part of what turns a spirituality into a religion. Some of us like that. It seems to me like you don't. And there's no reason you have to have it.

[Lupabitch]

Ceremony =/= repetitive. While many pagans may use the same basic structure with certain types of rituals, very few will do the same Samhain ritual every year, and so forth. Ceremony simply means doing something more formally, not doing it the same way every time. You do have ceremonial magicians who may (or may not) have a certain regimen of rites that they do at regular intervals, the same way each time, but they are a relative minority when you look at the pagan and occult communities as a whole.

If ceremony and formality aren't your thing, that doesn't make you less of a pagan. However, be wary of stagnation (i.e., not doing *anything*). Even many pagans who do not use formal ritual still do a regular meditation or other practice.

[Fiamma]

Exactly.

I crave ceremony.

Me too. I'm a bit of a ritual junkie....though for my own religions. And preferably larger- 20 or more people. If I could do a major ritual every week and have it go really well, I'd be happy. I prefer to take some of the more involved parts in ritual...if anyone here is familiar with ADF rituals, calling the gatekeeper, and opening the gates- I'm very good at this, and have a significant fascination with certain gatekeeper deities (Not the trickster boundary gods so much though, Hermes has established his presence in my life. But the gods that stand at the borders...Heimdall and Iannus in particular...and I wish there was more writing on Apollo Prostaterios (Apollo who stands before the entrance) in old Greek sources.

That, and primary invocations- I don't just taken these parts willy-nilly in ritual, but I like to when I can.

My own personal rituals tend to be much more low key. Personal rituals are generally Hellenic recon, and I do them at least once a week, always on Saturday night at least...and smaller, shorter devotional rituals before I go to bed.

The one thign I have a problem with is very small group ritual...I've recently done a few in my grove for Hellenic festivals that were as small as 8 people and I'm getting more used to that. But less than that? *shudder* My one roommate has brought up the idea of doing private Hellenic rituals at home (we worship a few of the same deities to different extents), and the idea just terrifies me.

[TygerTyger]

Adding the framework - rituals or church services, magic, a specific calendar of holy days - in my mind, that's a big part of what turns a spirituality into a religion. Some of us like that. It seems to me like you don't. And there's no reason you have to have it.

Windsmith, I think you’ve hit a nail on the head there! I crave a spiritual dimension to my life but not necessarily a religious one. For some reason I don’t feel the need to participate in ceremonies or mark certain days with certain acts of celebration, I only mark my own birthday because I’m married.

However, Lupabitch also makes a good point on stagnation, I think that has certainly happened more than once in my life. I’m not sure if ceremony of any type would save me from that. I feel that it’s my responsibility to maintain my beliefs and the best way for me to do that is put a moment of time aside to genuinely contemplate the miracle of existence.

Thanks for all the responses, you’ve made me feel better about my position and I hope all those that do participate in ceremonies of any kind get everything they need from them.

[Beatnik Bettie]

Definitely do not need ceremony, and very rarely utilise it. I prefer to do what I need to do without any added distractions.

[childofbast]

I was raised Catholic. The ceremony didn't turn me away. Rather it was the teachings and the hypocrisies. Now that I'm Pagan, I love ceremony. I also love impromptu ritual - simple offerings or thanks given. But a nice ceremony that takes time and effort - there's something beautiful about that.