Could some Pagans be simply delusional?

[Cake-eating_Moth]

I want opinions from people on this issue. I don't want to hurt anybody's feelings (and I apologize beforehand if I seem to).

I do claim to be [neo]pagan, but I want to share my experiences with many others in my community and on the web who also claim Paganism.

Does it ever seem like half of the people in this community (Pagans as a whole) are just simply delusional?

I mean, you know - they claim to see dragons flying over their house at night - and they are dead serious, by the way.

And that every single dream or vision is somehow a connection with a deity . . . Or that a tarot reading is being told through them directly through their God(dess) . . . I don't deny that some could be some form of connection with deity, in whatever form that's expressed. But... you know, our ancestors didn't survive on delusions themselves: There was very grueling work, sweat, and blood that they had to cross in order to even survive; Of course there were your shamans and dreamers in the community, but they always conveyed messages (from whomever, or whatever) that something was going to happen concerning that specific community.

I want everyone's experiences with this - and arguments, since we all do believe differently in some way.

[BlueSage]

I want opinions from people on this issue. I don't want to hurt anybody's feelings (and I apologize beforehand if I seem to).

I do claim to be [neo]pagan, but I want to share my experiences with many others in my community and on the web who also claim Paganism.

Does it ever seem like half of the people in this community (Pagans as a whole) are just simply delusional?

I mean, you know - they claim to see dragons flying over their house at night - and they are dead serious, by the way.

And that every single dream or vision is somehow a connection with a deity . . . Or that a tarot reading is being told through them directly through their God(dess) . . . I don't deny that some could be some form of connection with deity, in whatever form that's expressed. But... you know, our ancestors didn't survive on delusions themselves: There was very grueling work, sweat, and blood that they had to cross in order to even survive; Of course there were your shamans and dreamers in the community, but they always conveyed messages (from whomever, or whatever) that something was going to happen concerning that specific community.

I want everyone's experiences with this - and arguments, since we all do believe differently in some way.

kudos and karma. i have a lot of people who "follow" me here on MW so i couldn't go out and blatantly say that, but kudos and karma. it hit home for me.

[Aidron]

Oh Hell yes, I believe the majority of Pagans are delusional, usually of the self-deluded variety. Before you know it, they delude each other and then it ultimately winds up in a mass hysteria of delusion.

Anything Pagans say I take with a grain of salt. I believe in a lot of unusual things, I admit, but I always maintain an open mind that I could be wrong and realize that at the end of the day there are no hardcore facts for me to back up my beliefs - which is why they are beliefs.

I really start to lose it after about 5 minutes of listening to some Pagan go on and on about all sorts of fantastical things. I become unable to keep my eyes from rolling and ultimately, that's no fun for me or them. So, I tend to maintain a safe distance from other Pagans before they suddenly spout out "I lived on the Isle of Avalon in a past life!" and I vomit all over myself in utter horror. :eyebrow:

[BlueSage]

Oh Hell yes, I believe the majority of Pagans are delusional, usually of the self-deluded variety. Before you know it, they delude each other and then it ultimately winds up in a mass hysteria of delusion.

Anything Pagans say I take with a grain of salt. I believe in a lot of unusual things, I admit, but I always maintain an open mind that I could be wrong and realize that at the end of the day there are no hardcore facts for me to back up my beliefs - which is why they are beliefs.

I really start to lose it after about 5 minutes of listening to some Pagan go on and on about all sorts of fantastical things. I become unable to keep my eyes from rolling and ultimately, that's no fun for me or them. So, I tend to maintain a safe distance from other Pagans before they suddenly spout out "I lived on the Isle of Avalon in a past life!" and I vomit all over myself in utter horror. :eyebrow:

dang adrion...um....hey guy...um...nice post.

*runs from the scene of the crime*

[Dark_Tezcatlipoca]

Thats why I tend to be more comfortable with [moderate] Christians.

But seriously I think that 75%, at least, of pagans are delusional. Those are the ones that came to paganism because they were delusional. the other 25% are the smart ones that realized the flaws of Christianity and atheism, which most just become atheists right after.

[BlackLili]

Great question.
Short answer? Hells yeah.

And for the record Aidron owes me a new keyboard. I have now spit soda all over mine.

I will point out that delusions are sometimes an issue of perception though. I mean, is it any more or less delusional to believe in dragons flying over your house than it is to believe that a dead guy can get up and walk after days or weeks in the ground?

Social acceptability for one's delusion goes a long way in this world.

That all being said, Pag ans, as much as any other group (and admittedly, sometimes more) have our fair share of those folks I like to lovingly refer to as "crazier than a sh*thouse rat."

There could be a lot of reasons for this, but I like to tell myself that it's because many p a g a ns try to be as open-minded and accepting of others as we can be - and that sometimes, this brings us folks with some fairly radical perspectives.

Or maybe...people are just crazy. Your call. ;)

[Aidron]

Thats why I tend to be more comfortable with [moderate] Christians.

But seriously I think that 75%, at least, of pagans are delusional. Those are the ones that came to paganism because they were delusional. the other 25% are the smart ones that realized the flaws of Christianity and atheism, which most just become atheists right after.

Perhaps they do come to Paganism because they are delusional. However, I do find that the majority of people are delusional period and Pagans are no different - well no different other than what precisely they're delusional about.

Random delusional experience:

Them: "I totally visited you last night in astral form and your room was a mess!"

Me: "I wasn't home last night. Also, you don't need to astral project to know my room is a mess - I'm 25 and a boy."

[Beatnik Bettie]

Are some pagans delusional?
Hell yeah. Some pagans believe any old shit, not to mention being highly open to suggestion. You spilt your juice this morning? Could be a warning from your deity. A bird shat on your windscreen? It's a message from someone, something, somewhere....

[BlueSage]

Are some pagans delusional?
Hell yeah. Some pagans believe any old shit, not to mention being highly open to suggestion. You spilt your juice this morning? Could be a warning from your deity. A bird shat on your windscreen? It's a message from someone, something, somewhere....

you sent that raven that smashed into my door at 3:12 last week :(

_inabox_

(yea it really happened) :foh:

i jumped out of bed and hit my wrist/palm on my headboard and screamed in pain then realized i could be letting the intruder know i was home and said to myself "oh sh** you retard you could let them know your home. frig**en retard."

[Dark_Tezcatlipoca]

I once rolled three '6's in the "Risk" board game. Could that be Satan sending me a message? or could it be DJ Paul and Juicy J???

[BlueSage]

I once rolled three '6's in the "Risk" board game. Could that be Satan sending me a message? or could it be DJ Paul and Juicy J???


i rolled 3 6's in those bar/tavern games once when you play those dice games for cash.

freaked me out for some reason and i stopped. (oh yea cause the other 2 dice flung to the ground under my bar stoolz and i was 1/2 drunk lol.)

[Nox_Mortus]

of course some pagans are delusional, the same can be said for any other group of devoted religious people, I don't really have a problem with this because delusional people are usually pretty funny, unless they try to kill you.

[Stormbeard]

I think anybody who has an actual belief in physical magic is delusional.

[Philosophia]

Any religious or non-religious person can be delusional. Pagans are no exception. I believe in astral travel, people will believe that is delusional, but I don't. However, my thought on what exactly is astral travel may be different then any others. I do have to admit though that many delusions make me laugh. But what does ancestors have to do with it? Even they had their delusions as well.

[Rasari]

Oh Hell yes, I believe the majority of Pagans are delusional, usually of the self-deluded variety. Before you know it, they delude each other and then it ultimately winds up in a mass hysteria of delusion.

Anything Pagans say I take with a grain of salt. I believe in a lot of unusual things, I admit, but I always maintain an open mind that I could be wrong and realize that at the end of the day there are no hardcore facts for me to back up my beliefs - which is why they are beliefs.

I really start to lose it after about 5 minutes of listening to some Pagan go on and on about all sorts of fantastical things. I become unable to keep my eyes from rolling and ultimately, that's no fun for me or them. So, I tend to maintain a safe distance from other Pagans before they suddenly spout out "I lived on the Isle of Avalon in a past life!" and I vomit all over myself in utter horror. :eyebrow:

I second this post emphatically.

I tend to be very skeptical and cynical. The more fantastical or idealistic they get the more I want to gag myself with a tire iron.

I get tired of every simple little event being blown out of proportion and tagged with some profound meaning.

"ZOMG! I saw a white tail deer yesterday! I KNOW it was a sign that its my totem!"
Congrats, you live in Friggin GEORGIA! The white tail are currently over sustainable population. Sightings happen EVERY DAMN DAY. Wow, must be a sign. Hunting license anyone?

or

"ZOMG! A jack daw landed in front of me this morning, it was like he wasn't even scared! He must be my spirit guide!"
Eh... Its ENGLAND. And jack daws are bold to begin with. MAYBE it was just a Jack Daw, that was minding its own business.

"ZOMG! I had this vision last night! The Goddess gave me a message!"
That or it could have maybe been the LSD?

"I think I achieved peace and enlightenment last night in meditation! Pure nirvana!"
No, thats called a "high". Its what happens when you smoke pot.

"I was liberated by the spirit of the Goddess last night! I felt truelly free and we danced in joy of our human nature!"
No, you were liberated by the spirit known as Jager and were dancing the naked horizontal in bed with your HPS's husband...


"The Goddess says..."
The Goddess says STFU and quit speaking for her...

"I AM A WARRIOR!"
You're a stock boy at wal-mart that spends his free time playing D&D... Actually fight for something, then say that. Join the military, a rights group or a community service program and I'll buy into the claim. Until then, shut up and roll the dice.

"I put a curse on him and he wrecked his car!"
Or it could have been the alcohol he consumed prior like every other friday night?

"I'm at war with demons!"
Yes... And they have pills for that.

....

Enough rambling on my part. Yes, I do think many pagans are either delusional or overly naive.

[Artiste-LiLi]

Ok......all y'all owe me a new computer because I have repeatedly spit sweet iced tea everywhere laughing at the responses!:rollingla

Are pagans delusional.......um, well....duh...yeah...some are; but then some of every single group of people you can name are.

I must confess to egging on some of the ones who are a bit more "out there" than others...just so I can get a good giggle or two. But, their "out there" is just my opinion about their schtick and we all know that opinions are like a$$hole$...everyone has one and they all stink. I'm sure there are people who think some of my beliefs are really "out there"/delusional...but what the heck..they don't have to believe them if they don't want to...and I don't care if people laugh at me or roll their eyes; just means that someone else is getting a rest from it. :hahugh: On the whole I'm pretty pragmatic about stuff, but I do have a few "unique" views. (No dragons flying over my house at night...though I did once see a cloud flying overhead that was shaped like a dragon.) I've seen some pretty freaky stuff in my life; but as someone else has said...I keep an open mind about it and realize that things can be explained by many means.

[Philosophia]

I second this post emphatically.

I tend to be very skeptical and cynical. The more fantastical or idealistic they get the more I want to gag myself with a tire iron.

I get tired of every simple little event being blown out of proportion and tagged with some profound meaning.

"ZOMG! I saw a white tail deer yesterday! I KNOW it was a sign that its my totem!"
Congrats, you live in Friggin GEORGIA! The white tail are currently over sustainable population. Sightings happen EVERY DAMN DAY. Wow, must be a sign. Hunting license anyone?

or

"ZOMG! A jack daw landed in front of me this morning, it was like he wasn't even scared! He must be my spirit guide!"
Eh... Its ENGLAND. And jack daws are bold to begin with. MAYBE it was just a Jack Daw, that was minding its own business.

"ZOMG! I had this vision last night! The Goddess gave me a message!"
That or it could have maybe been the LSD?

"I think I achieved peace and enlightenment last night in meditation! Pure nirvana!"
No, thats called a "high". Its what happens when you smoke pot.

"I was liberated by the spirit of the Goddess last night! I felt truelly free and we danced in joy of our human nature!"
No, you were liberated by the spirit known as Jager and were dancing the naked horizontal in bed with your HPS's husband...


"The Goddess says..."
The Goddess says STFU and quit speaking for her...

"I AM A WARRIOR!"
You're a stock boy at wal-mart that spends his free time playing D&D... Actually fight for something, then say that. Join the military, a rights group or a community service program and I'll buy into the claim. Until then, shut up and roll the dice.

"I put a curse on him and he wrecked his car!"
Or it could have been the alcohol he consumed prior like every other friday night?

"I'm at war with demons!"
Yes... And they have pills for that.

....

Enough rambling on my part. Yes, I do think many pagans are either delusional or overly naive.

:rollingla

I love those delusions!

[BlueSage]

like someone trying to explain what they do on the astral plane means something.

"i fought teh demonz with 12 arms and flaming swordz"

i wanna say "sure, i'll do that tomorrow night."

edit: the only time you can do something "meaningful" as in an act is transpose thoughts into people (well that's all i've learned to do thus far.) and hell i'm sure that sounds kooky to 1/2 the people here lol. but i went and watched the following day as the dude who hates brownies ate a brownie at lunch. LOL....yea stupid i know _inabox_

i asked jay at the 2nd break and he was like "yea it was kind of odd i just got a sudden urge for a brownie and they're not 1/2 bad."

:D

[Rasari]

:rollingla

I love those delusions!

Me too! >;}

And yeah, Lili... I'm guilty of egging on a few of them as well.

[erika]

I agree.. especially with the people who claim to see dragons. I read a thread on that a while ago and all I could think was 'what..the..' I have nothing whatsoever against pagans who believe in those types of.. experiences.. if that is part of their spiritual belief and makes them feel a closer connection to whatever it is they believe. All the power to them. I just can not bring myself to believe in actual flying, fire-breathing, scaly dragons.

Also I'm not a magic person but I end up wanting to laugh at people who claim to pull spells straight out of that movie "the craft".. you know when they change their hair and eye colour with a wave of the hand? Or levitate friends? Come on now.

[Brigid Rowan]

I second this post emphatically.

I tend to be very skeptical and cynical. The more fantastical or idealistic they get the more I want to gag myself with a tire iron.

I get tired of every simple little event being blown out of proportion and tagged with some profound meaning.

"ZOMG! I saw a white tail deer yesterday! I KNOW it was a sign that its my totem!"
Congrats, you live in Friggin GEORGIA! The white tail are currently over sustainable population. Sightings happen EVERY DAMN DAY. Wow, must be a sign. Hunting license anyone?

or

"ZOMG! A jack daw landed in front of me this morning, it was like he wasn't even scared! He must be my spirit guide!"
Eh... Its ENGLAND. And jack daws are bold to begin with. MAYBE it was just a Jack Daw, that was minding its own business.

"ZOMG! I had this vision last night! The Goddess gave me a message!"
That or it could have maybe been the LSD?

"I think I achieved peace and enlightenment last night in meditation! Pure nirvana!"
No, thats called a "high". Its what happens when you smoke pot.

"I was liberated by the spirit of the Goddess last night! I felt truelly free and we danced in joy of our human nature!"
No, you were liberated by the spirit known as Jager and were dancing the naked horizontal in bed with your HPS's husband...


"The Goddess says..."
The Goddess says STFU and quit speaking for her...

"I AM A WARRIOR!"
You're a stock boy at wal-mart that spends his free time playing D&D... Actually fight for something, then say that. Join the military, a rights group or a community service program and I'll buy into the claim. Until then, shut up and roll the dice.

"I put a curse on him and he wrecked his car!"
Or it could have been the alcohol he consumed prior like every other friday night?

"I'm at war with demons!"
Yes... And they have pills for that.

....

Enough rambling on my part. Yes, I do think many pagans are either delusional or overly naive.


:T
LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


You are awesomeness.

[BlueSage]

Or levitate friends? Come on now.


have you honestly tried Light As A Feather or are just knocking it :(

[RoseRhythm]

For a long time I believed a lot more of those delusional people than I do now. It made me feel like I was less pagan because I've never seen a god or a dragon. So yep, I see there are a lot of delusional people out there.

[Philosophia]

Seeing a god or a dragon doesn't mean a person is delusional.

[Rasari]

Seeing a god or a dragon doesn't mean a person is delusional.

Claiming that your the living embodiment of Bast or that a dragon lives in your garage and keeps chewing on your tires on the other hand...

[Dark_Tezcatlipoca]

Claiming that your the living embodiment of Bast or that a dragon lives in your garage and keeps chewing on your tires on the other hand...

Has anyone actually said that!?

[Philosophia]

Claiming that your the living embodiment of Bast or that a dragon lives in your garage and keeps chewing on your tires on the other hand...

IMO...is delusional. :smile:

[Fiamma]

Thats why I tend to be more comfortable with [moderate] Christians.

But seriously I think that 75%, at least, of pagans are delusional. Those are the ones that came to paganism because they were delusional. the other 25% are the smart ones that realized the flaws of Christianity and atheism, which most just become atheists right after.


I rather take issue with this statement. Being reasonably sure that I'm one of the non-delusional folks (I maintain that I'm ok as long as I continue to allow for the possibility that I'm wrong, and strongly question many of my experiences), I know that I'm not here because I "realized the flaws of Christianity and atheism" and I know many other pagans whose being pagan has nothing to do with Christianity, atheism or problems with any other religion. You also completely discount the fact that there are now people who were born into pagan families, instead of growing up and converting.

Also, there is a huge difference between being delusional and wishful thinking or an overactive imagination. I think the latter two are more the problem with many folks.

[erika]

have you honestly tried Light As A Feather or are just knocking it :(

I remember giving it a go at a sleepover when I was 12... but for the most part no I do not believe a line from a movie is going to levitate anything.

Show me someone who is truly telekinetic and I will believe lol

[Dark_Tezcatlipoca]

You also completely discount the fact that there are now people who were born into pagan families, instead of growing up and converting .

I forgot to include that...

------------------------

And I also fail to see the difference between delusion and "overactive imagination"

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/delusion

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) (http://dictionary.reference.com/help/luna.html) - Cite This Source (http://dictionary.reference.com/cite.html?qh=delusion&ia=luna) - Share This (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/delusion#sharethis) deˇluˇsion http://cache.lexico.com/g/d/premium.gif http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pnghttp://cache.lexico.com/g/d/speaker.gif (https://secure.reference.com/premium/login.html?rd=2&u=http%3A%2F%2Fdictionary.reference.com%2Fbrowse%2Fdelusion) /dɪˈluhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pngʒən/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[di-loo-zhuhhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pngn] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation –noun 1.an act or instance of deluding. 2.the state of being deluded. 3.a false belief or opinion: delusions of grandeur. 4.Psychiatry. a fixed false belief that is resistant to reason or confrontation with actual fact: a paranoid delusion.

[Rasari]

Has anyone actually said that!?

The living embodiment of a goddess bit? Yes.
The dragon in the garage is LIGHTLY paraphrased.

I keep lists of this crud, it never ceases to amaze me.

[Rasari]

I rather take issue with this statement. Being reasonably sure that I'm one of the non-delusional folks (I maintain that I'm ok as long as I continue to allow for the possibility that I'm wrong, and strongly question many of my experiences), I know that I'm not here because I "realized the flaws of Christianity and atheism" and I know many other pagans whose being pagan has nothing to do with Christianity, atheism or problems with any other religion. You also completely discount the fact that there are now people who were born into pagan families, instead of growing up and converting.

Also, there is a huge difference between being delusional and wishful thinking or an overactive imagination. I think the latter two are more the problem with many folks.

Diddo. I have NO issue with Christianity or Atheism. I feel that Christianity is a perfectly valid and fulfilling religion for some people. One thats abused by others. It just wasn't spiritually fulfilling to me. I found my place else where.

[Trithemius]

To call some Pagans delusional for some of the stuff they believe in is being very kind.

[Sequoia]

Considering that I used to be one of those crazy, believe-it-all, past-life-in-Atlantis, "I taste the astral music" kind of pagans... I can completely say in an unbiased manner that SO DAMN MANY pagans are just batsheet crazy. They'll believe ANYTHING.

That's not to say that ALL "metaphysical" things are wrong or fake - they're not. There are real experiences (and some that leave you going "Okay, just WTF was that?! That did NOT just happen!!") out there...

It's just that the majority of people have severely overactive imaginations when it comes to paganism.

[Shawn Blackwolf]

Well...first , before we can state whether someone is
delusional , or not...we must establish parameters of
consensus reality...

And , we must take into account , different world
traditions , do believe in things , that to each of us ,
determining our personal reality , would certainly
seem delusional...

Would , and do , some people consider me , you ,
and many here , and elsewhere , delusional ?

Absolutely...I feel our country , other countries ,
are run by those most delusional...I feel most
corporations , academics and those who believe
in the rational to the extreme , as well most , not
all scientists , and religious leaders , and devotees ,
to be delusional...

Most important , I consider most psychiatrists to
be delusional , and obsessive - compulsive , about
diagnosing people...as well , most people , who
see themselves as never could be delusional...some
here...to be very deluded...

On the other hand...after someone threatened me
with astral attack , over a week ago...I called my
raven friend , who visits me in real life , every
morning...same raven , for 2 1/2 years...showed
up on my porch at midnite , one night...

So...raven , and I , had a conversation...told it
what was happening...how I had been threatened...

Later that day...never happened before here...and
neighbors , who lived here , all their lives...said
they had never seen it happen before...

A murder of over 50 ravens , showed up , circling ,
sitting in trees , in my yard...cawing , clicking ,
and talking to me...and stayed the whole weekend...

I also asked them to send a message...not a good idea ,
for someone to threaten me...I have heard , the message
got to it's destination...interesting...

Delusional ? Perhaps...on the other hand...LOL...

Now...as for dragons chewing on tires , in a garage ?

Ummm...dragons do not favor rubber , in their diet...

Ask the Chinese , and Tibetans...

[Fiamma]

I remember giving it a go at a sleepover when I was 12... but for the most part no I do not believe a line from a movie is going to levitate anything.

Show me someone who is truly telekinetic and I will believe lol

It can work, but It's not a telekinetinc thing and anyone who claims it is is lying or doesn't know what they're talking about. If you and the group you're doing this with have decent concentration and focus, it actually works. From what I can gather it's part focus, part belief that it's going to work, part mind over matter (n a sense akin to the guys who can lay on a bed of nails) part concentration, and part weight distribution. I've done this, it's pretty weird, but it's not all that outlandish.

Think about it- for the sake of simple math, let's say you and four friend are gathered, and you decide to try this with a friend weighing 100 pounds.

That's 25 pounds/friend to lift, 12.5 pounds/finger- not all that crazy. I have a backpack in front of me that weighs about ten to twelve pounds, I don;t know about you but I can easily lift it on one finger.

Unfortunately, if you google it, you mostly come up with a lot of "occult" sites....this one isn't too bad: http://www.wikihow.com/Play-Light-as-a-Feather

[Philosophia]

Anything Pagans say I take with a grain of salt. I believe in a lot of unusual things, I admit, but I always maintain an open mind that I could be wrong and realize that at the end of the day there are no hardcore facts for me to back up my beliefs - which is why they are beliefs.

QFT

[Cake-eating_Moth]

...this one isn't too bad: http://www.wikihow.com/Play-Light-as-a-Feather

Oh, that's awesome. I should try that sometime. It could flip some people's lids 8O

[princeether]

:rotfl:

Funny thread!

I think its ok to be delusional if its not harming anyone!

[erika]

Well...first , before we can state whether someone is
delusional , or not...we must establish parameters of
consensus reality...

And , we must take into account , different world
traditions , do believe in things , that to each of us ,
determining our personal reality , would certainly
seem delusional...

Would , and do , some people consider me , you ,
and many here , and elsewhere , delusional ?

Absolutely...I feel our country , other countries ,
are run by those most delusional...I feel most
corporations , academics and those who believe
in the rational to the extreme , as well most , not
all scientists , and religious leaders , and devotees ,
to be delusional...

Most important , I consider most psychiatrists to
be delusional , and obsessive - compulsive , about
diagnosing people...as well , most people , who
see themselves as never could be delusional...some
here...to be very deluded...

On the other hand...after someone threatened me
with astral attack , over a week ago...I called my
raven friend , who visits me in real life , every
morning...same raven , for 2 1/2 years...showed
up on my porch at midnite , one night...

So...raven , and I , had a conversation...told it
what was happening...how I had been threatened...

Later that day...never happened before here...and
neighbors , who lived here , all their lives...said
they had never seen it happen before...

A murder of over 50 ravens , showed up , circling ,
sitting in trees , in my yard...cawing , clicking ,
and talking to me...and stayed the whole weekend...

I also asked them to send a message...not a good idea ,
for someone to threaten me...I have heard , the message
got to it's destination...interesting...

Delusional ? Perhaps...on the other hand...LOL...


That's very interesting.. what path do you follow? The type of experience you described is something I definitely don't find delusional.. I'm a pantheist so for me I feel a connection to the Divine through everything around me, animal, plant, earth, we are all connected and a part of that higher power. What you described with the ravens though that almost sounds.. shamanistic maybe? If that's the word I'm looking for lol.

And for the mind over matter issue with the levitating - I guess you do have a point. Come to think of it, ever since I was a kid I'd fool around walking on top of snow after a snow storm. I'd will myself to be lighter and walk so I wouldn't break through the top layer of snow when it felt like I should have been.

[Shawn Blackwolf]

That's very interesting.. what path do you follow? The type of experience you described is something I definitely don't find delusional.. I'm a pantheist so for me I feel a connection to the Divine through everything around me, animal, plant, earth, we are all connected and a part of that higher power. What you described with the ravens though that almost sounds.. shamanistic maybe? If that's the word I'm looking for lol.


Look down the bottom of my signature , Erika...

And , if you so choose...you may read about my experience
with ravens , in my COT ( Circle Of Teaching ) Teacher
Intro thread...do understand , since you are new...

Many here , do consider me delusional...we all have our
reality tunnels , and parameters...the trick is...don't get
stuck...many Rabbit Holes...so little time...here...lol...

[erika]

heh.. sorry I usually skip over the signatures :) and I will check out your thread

[Stormbeard]

Well...first , before we can state whether someone is
delusional , or not...we must establish parameters of
consensus reality...

And , we must take into account , different world
traditions , do believe in things , that to each of us ,
determining our personal reality , would certainly
seem delusional...

Would , and do , some people consider me , you ,
and many here , and elsewhere , delusional ?

Absolutely...I feel our country , other countries ,
are run by those most delusional...I feel most
corporations , academics and those who believe
in the rational to the extreme , as well most , not
all scientists , and religious leaders , and devotees ,
to be delusional...

Most important , I consider most psychiatrists to
be delusional , and obsessive - compulsive , about
diagnosing people...as well , most people , who
see themselves as never could be delusional...some
here...to be very deluded...

On the other hand...after someone threatened me
with astral attack , over a week ago...I called my
raven friend , who visits me in real life , every
morning...same raven , for 2 1/2 years...showed
up on my porch at midnite , one night...

So...raven , and I , had a conversation...told it
what was happening...how I had been threatened...

Later that day...never happened before here...and
neighbors , who lived here , all their lives...said
they had never seen it happen before...

A murder of over 50 ravens , showed up , circling ,
sitting in trees , in my yard...cawing , clicking ,
and talking to me...and stayed the whole weekend...

I also asked them to send a message...not a good idea ,
for someone to threaten me...I have heard , the message
got to it's destination...interesting...

Delusional ? Perhaps...on the other hand...LOL...

Now...as for dragons chewing on tires , in a garage ?

Ummm...dragons do not favor rubber , in their diet...

Ask the Chinese , and Tibetans...
Shawn I love you

[Shawn Blackwolf]

And Stormbeard , as time moves ahead...( and in every
other direction...)...I realize how much , in your own
very special way...YOU ROCK !

Love you too...:smile:

[Lajmar]

Oh Hell yes, I believe the majority of Pagans are delusional, usually of the self-deluded variety. Before you know it, they delude each other and then it ultimately winds up in a mass hysteria of delusion.

Anything Pagans say I take with a grain of salt. I believe in a lot of unusual things, I admit, but I always maintain an open mind that I could be wrong and realize that at the end of the day there are no hardcore facts for me to back up my beliefs - which is why they are beliefs.

I really start to lose it after about 5 minutes of listening to some Pagan go on and on about all sorts of fantastical things. I become unable to keep my eyes from rolling and ultimately, that's no fun for me or them. So, I tend to maintain a safe distance from other Pagans before they suddenly spout out "I lived on the Isle of Avalon in a past life!" and I vomit all over myself in utter horror. :eyebrow:

LMAO & DITTO!! That said, the biggest problems (delusional wise) I've come across is that with those who think every experience is a mystical experience, that is that everything that happens an omen, and that 50 different Deities and Powers have decided to speak through them, to them, and be their friend ( and did I forget cause every thing bad that happened to them?). Also the incessant "I have a message for you from So-and-So (be it a deity, power, spirit, the dead, etc.)drives me insane. That said, I've met plenty non-pagan and magical folk who were just as crazy

[Aidron]

Further continuing the discussion...

There are times when I believe the person believes what they saw or experienced. Now, while I'm willing to admit unicorns may exist on this plane or in some other plane, I've never seen one, therefore I remain indifferent. I know one person whom I respect a great deal, particularly for her common sense and realistic approach to the occult that swears she has seen a unicorn.

Did she? No clue. I don't believe she saw one and I don't believe she didn't. I just have faith that she isn't delusional or making things up. Besides, it's not even that fantastical of a story, so if you're going to be delusional why not go all out? [shrugs]

But that's where I draw the line. If you start telling me you've astral projected into my presence (particularly my room, which is warded against said intrusions) or that you cast a spell to make me lose all my money (when in fact I found $20.00 in a parking lot) or that you've cursed me to a loveless life (when I already told you I'm not interested in love) I'm going to have to cast a spell of restraint on myself to keep from beating the living crap out of your whacked out self. :2G:

[DracoJesi]

kudos and karma. i have a lot of people who "follow" me here on MW so i couldn't go out and blatantly say that, but kudos and karma. it hit home for me.

Dragons? :bigblue:

seriously though, yes I do think some are, they usually seem preoccupied with spells and curses than the spiritual aspects.

I used to see Dragons all the time, of course, I was like five, I still see them in the astral sometimes and other times I can feel their prescience, but I don't see them in the world of the mundane, I gues they think I'm just not as cool anymore :rotfl: ......:sniffsnif

[Lunacie]

Dragons? :bigblue:

seriously though, yes I do think some are, they usually seem preoccupied with spells and curses than the spiritual aspects.

I used to see Dragons all the time, of course, I was like five, I still see them in the astral sometimes and other times I can feel their prescience, but I don't see them in the world of the mundane, I gues they think I'm just not as cool anymore :rotfl: ...... :sad: :cry:

Or maybe... you stopped thinking dragons were so cool. ;)
... *dragon tears* ...

[PrincessKLS]

It's just beliefs really, they are probably no more delusional than a fundamentalist Christian who believes we are seeing signs of Jesus' return.

[Brónach Druid]

Do I think some pagans are delusional...yes. Mostly those that seem to think paganism is some how related to charmed or harry potter. Also, I find that some pagans are a little too out there or a little too wacky for me to take them seriously. I do not personally believe in magic or spells in the common meaning. I do however believe in the power of the mind, in that the true energy one may produce in their own belief of those things could cause extraordinary things to happen. I also believe that we are often too skeptical of things beyond our understanding. I think many of you may understand where I am coming from, there are those whose post you read and you just feel they are a little crazy or delusional and those you read and then there are those you read some what skeptical but you can't help but wonder........

[IvyWitch]

I don't know if I'd use the term delusional, but I do think that there are a lot of Pagans that say things in order to be special and unique. Personally I find that type of behavior to be more immature than delusional.

[BlueSage]

All i have to say is focus on said individual before you astral.

Nothing can nor will stop you while on the astral plane. Imagine yourself within the silver lining and nothing--NOTHING can stop your presence. I broke into a witche's bubble who was like upper 60 years old and she attempted to cast me out as a demon.

after realizing that i couldn't get her to believe that i wasn't harmful i simply faded out of the spectrum and remained on the astral watching her as she congragulated herself "betty you done well, you removed the demon from this house..." and she then went on to her couch and read some old book that was red and like vinyl and the pages were a brown and it had goldish lettering on it.

((just goes to show some people are overly dramatic. also: the only way i even "honed in" on her was her mantra of 'cast out these demons...cast out these demons' which i heard while on the astral grid.))

[DracoJesi]

Or maybe... you stopped thinking dragons were so cool. ;)
... *dragon tears* ...

are oyu kidding me, I'm crazy about em :lol:

[Shawn Blackwolf]

All i have to say is focus on said individual before you astral.

Nothing can nor will stop you while on the astral plane. Imagine yourself within the silver lining and nothing--NOTHING can stop your presence. I broke into a witche's bubble who was like upper 60 years old and she attempted to cast me out as a demon.

after realizing that i couldn't get her to believe that i wasn't harmful i simply faded out of the spectrum and remained on the astral watching her as she congragulated herself "betty you done well, you removed the demon from this house..." and she then went on to her couch and read some old book that was red and like vinyl and the pages were a brown and it had goldish lettering on it.

((just goes to show some people are overly dramatic. also: the only way i even "honed in" on her was her mantra of 'cast out these demons...cast out these demons' which i heard while on the astral grid.))

Those who play on the astral plane , are young , inexperienced ,
and often braggarts...And , yes , they can be stopped...

With no problem , by those more advanced...just goes to show you...

[Nigel]

I think that a lot of visible pagans are nutso, but I think that a lot of visible religious people of any faith are nutso.

I also think that a lot of crazy experiences are authentic, but I think that the mistake people make is thinking that they are authentic for other people, too... for example, there is no reason to believe that the dragons you see exist for anyone else. Your private realities/religious experiences are not necessarily shared with anyone else.

Other thoughts I've had while reading this thread include:

That there has never been a time when people were not born into pagan households and raised pagan. There is nothing new about this, even in modern Western civilization.

That crows congregate in a murder, ravens congregate in a conspiracy.

Crows have always been fascinated with my children, and have more or less stalked me through my pregnancies. This included occasions when my friends were freaked out by the dozens of crows that would camp out on my lawn, greet me when I left the house, and follow my car. One friend got lost visiting my new home... she said she eventually found it by following a crow.

I don't attribute this to anything supernatural. I attribute it to the fact that crows are intelligent, social birds who live in tight-knit family groups and sometimes form attachments to humans. I have always been fond of crows... I talk to them (in American english and a little bit in Cherokee, which of course Portland crows wouldn't understand) and the family group around my house at some point noticed that I was pregnant, and decided to treat me like family. They seem to love my kids, as well. This is just a natural alliance between two families, not a sign that the crow is my spirit guide or my children's spirit guide.

[Shawn Blackwolf]

Conspiracy of ravens , or murder of crows , Nigel...

And I am also part Cherokee ( English Word )...

And know the root of the language , Book of Crow
Feathers , Spider Woman's Language , Copper Woman's
Language , and many others...

But you do not walk in my moccasins...nor know what
is real for me...

Enjoy your reality...blessings...:hahugh:

[LostSheep]

(No dragons flying over my house at night...though I did once see a cloud flying overhead that was shaped like a dragon.)
There are dragons over my house all the time... only they're cunningly disguised as clouds... :2G: ... you think it's raining? That's not rain ... :2G:

[LostSheep]

there are now people who were born into pagan families, instead of growing up and converting. .
I do wonder whether that's an altogether good thing sometimes, given that it's often stated that one of the advantages of paganism is that people aren't just brought up in it like they are with the mainstream religions, that children don't simply follow their parents but choose it for themeselves.

Just a thought...

[Aidron]

Nothing can nor will stop you while on the astral plane.

I beg to differ, minus the begging. I have stopped quite a few people on the astral plane from popping in, directly and indirectly. I will under no circumstances tolerate unexpected pop-ins from anyone on the astral plane and those who do usually regret doing so afterward. I consider the invasion of my privacy one of the biggest ways to violate me and I do not muster up any restraint in dealing out punishment to those who elect to not abide by my wishes.

Of course, don't take my word for it. Go ahead and pop in on me by all means and see for yourself what is in store for you. No threat, just me accepting the fact that no one should or usually can take someone's word for something.

[Avanti]

Like someone said earlier, there's a difference between people who suffer from delusions and those who are simply naive and over eager. I used to be the latter. When I first started out I wanted a patron/matron, preferabley both,a past life, a spirit guide, and guardian angel, oh oh an animal totem. I looked for signs in insects, every passing animal, cracks on concret footpaths, a weird look by a stranger etc. I basically threw my normally scepitcal mind out the window.

I would be thinking about a problem and incredible insights and ideas would pop into my head. I attributed it to one of the above that I thought was guiding me. Later i decided to ask what the capital of Nepal is. No answer. Why? because I didn't know the answer on any level of consciousness, hence I realised all my previous supernatural insights were really not supernatural but just a result of me taking a deep breath, calming my mind and actually listening to myself for once. It doesn't make this any less exciting though. But unless I get a string of winning lotto numbers in my head, or a deep booming voice saying I AM GOD ringing in my ears, i'm really not going to attribute anything to any supernatural being.

That aside, I do believe pagans can receive real visions and spiritual guidance through tarot, meditations, astral projection etc. Just not most of the time.

[Fiamma]

I do wonder whether that's an altogether good thing sometimes, given that it's often stated that one of the advantages of paganism is that people aren't just brought up in it like they are with the mainstream religions, that children don't simply follow their parents but choose it for themeselves.

Just a thought...

How is this an advantage? Why on earth would it be a bad thing for a family to teach their kids in their religion?

Why is the idea of raising a child in your own religion such a bad thing? I see this a lot amongst pagans also, and I find the idea that it's wrong to bring your kids up in your religion absolutely repulsive. It's a parent's right and responsibility to teach their kids the way to go about in this world until they are able to make up their own minds (and I don't see there being a set age for this) For that reason, I say to parents who have massive issues with things like Harry Potter- if you don't want your kids to read them because you find them morally objectionable, don't let your kids read them, by all means it's your right and responsibility to bring your kids up as you see fit, but it is neither your responsibility nor your right to tell another parents how to do so with their own kids.

That said, there's a huge difference with bringing them up in your religion and still teaching them that it's okay if they prefer to go another way, and bringing them up in your religion, but teaching them that yours is the only valid way.

I have no plans to have kids, but if I should ever wind up with any, damn skippy I'm going to bring them up in my religion. If they should feel the pull to something else, then they will be free to find their own way and I will help them as best as I can. but they're going to get their start with what I teach them.

[MonSno_LeeDra]

I find that many times yesterday's delusions are todays science. In that regard is it impossible that some of these things do happen? That they do not or have not happened to me does not make it any less feasable that they could or did. Some people see ghost others don't does that make it delusional?

Recorded history is full of things which in thier time made the person seem delusional to their peer group. Yet, after a time it was no more delusional than thinking man could fly to the moon or fly upon the wind. Gorilla's or the hairy man of the mountains are no delusion today but 100 years ago were the things of fairy tales and myth.

I will admit thier are some that thier realility seems to border upon what I would term delusional. Yet that delusion is based upon my perspective of what is real and what is possible.

For instance I see dragons everyday during the summer. They fly over my house and around my yard. They chase each other and do aerial stunts that would make a pilot cringe. Am I delusional, I think not for I call them Dragons though others may call them Damsel Flies or Dragon Flies. But until I expound upon it or you (collectively) ask for clairification they are dragons.

That one may see god / goddess in every event does not belittle it. I see it for I see all things as signs of god / goddess and thier imprint upon my world. Do I see each as a personal messaage to me, NO, but I freely admit thier are times I ask myself what was the meaning of this or that for the strangeness of it makes me take extra notice of it.

I think it ironic we can ask about the delusional status of a person that hears and see's thier god / goddess constanlty. When a Hindus see's the elephant statue give milk it's a miracle, when a Christian is trully devote they develop Stigmata, when one is filled with the spirit they speak in tongues. These things are not looked at as delusional though some maybe more of a mind over mater than religious miracle.

I find it ironic that one can place a concept upon one believers "Universe" and thier interaction with it, even as they claim their own right to believe and experience thier faith as they see fit.

How can one trully claim another is delusional unless you recognize the same belief and guage to measure that belief? Yet that very justification would require a uniformity of dogma for pagan religions to determine what is delusional and what is not. When we start down that road we tread the edge of the knife.

[Solya]

I have met my fair share of "delusional" people... not just restricted to Paganism, though the freedom of the Pagan life seems to attract the craziest ones... and have been tagged as "delusional" myself at certain points in time. I prefer not to judge people over the things they tell me, because I have no way of knowing if those things are true for them or not, but I will at all times be the sceptic and ask them thought-provoking questions.

What I do astrally and energetically is usually not anyone else's business. I know that the things I have experienced are real, but it doesn't mean that I am going to talk about them or tell others that they should experience the same. For me personally, these things are a part of my regular everyday life and I have found ways in which to deal with them accordingly. Experiences from others around me have actually confirmed my own experiences, which I think was also a way of letting me know I wasn't going as crazy as I feared I was.

I guess the bottom line is that I will only say that people are naďve, delusional and/or overeager to prove themselves if they make a big show out of their experiences and take everything that happens to them as truth. I have experienced some crazy, crazy things... but I am sceptical about them, right until the point of not trusting my own judgement, and prefer to rely more on myself than on any outside influences. That's the thing many of the delusional ones forget: in the end, you are the only one capable of living your life in the best way possible.

[Brigid Rowan]

On the other hand...after someone threatened me
with astral attack , over a week ago...I called my
raven friend , who visits me in real life , every
morning...same raven , for 2 1/2 years...showed
up on my porch at midnite , one night...

So...raven , and I , had a conversation...told it
what was happening...how I had been threatened...

Later that day...never happened before here...and
neighbors , who lived here , all their lives...said
they had never seen it happen before...

A murder of over 50 ravens , showed up , circling ,
sitting in trees , in my yard...cawing , clicking ,
and talking to me...and stayed the whole weekend...

I also asked them to send a message...not a good idea ,
for someone to threaten me...I have heard , the message
got to it's destination...interesting...

...

Heh. ~Small nervous chuckle~....Weirdly enough, Ive had a HUGE number of ravens at my house recently...~shifty eyes~...


Though I dont think I've been astrally attacking anyone....so, er, it, um, wasnt me! You can call your stuff n birds back..:smile:

[BlueSage]

Those who play on the astral plane , are young , inexperienced ,
and often braggarts...And , yes , they can be stopped...

With no problem , by those more advanced...just goes to show you...


well i have never been stopped...i've been "noticed" but never stopped.

[BlueSage]

the freedom of the Pagan life seems to attract the craziest ones...


that is what brought me first to the "pagan" side of things and then deeper into Chaos Magic.

[Lunacie]

I beg to differ, minus the begging. I have stopped quite a few people on the astral plane from popping in, directly and indirectly. I will under no circumstances tolerate unexpected pop-ins from anyone on the astral plane and those who do usually regret doing so afterward. I consider the invasion of my privacy one of the biggest ways to violate me and I do not muster up any restraint in dealing out punishment to those who elect to not abide by my wishes.

Of course, don't take my word for it. Go ahead and pop in on me by all means and see for yourself what is in store for you. No threat, just me accepting the fact that no one should or usually can take someone's word for something.

I've only had that happen once (at least only once that was a problem) and the 'punishment' was to bind that person from doing any astral travel for a few weeks - haha you're grounded!

[LostSheep]

Just a thought: is the more "colourful" end of the market (seeing dragons, invisible wolf guardians, etc) really all that different from, say speaking in tongues, or having visions, at the more exotic end of more mainstream religions?

[Aidron]

I've only had that happen once (at least only once that was a problem) and the 'punishment' was to bind that person from doing any astral travel for a few weeks - haha you're grounded!

But moooooom, I promise to be good! [snorts]

I don't bother with bindings typically in these scenarios. You're more than welcome to continue astral projecting as you wish, just don't expect to not walk with licking your wounds.

Violating my privacy angries up my blood (I sound 87 now), so I really don't bother to restrain myself from vengeful approaches.

[Lunacie]

But moooooom, I promise to be good! [snorts]

I don't bother with bindings typically in these scenarios. You're more than welcome to continue astral projecting as you wish, just don't expect to not walk with licking your wounds.

Violating my privacy angries up my blood (I sound 87 now), so I really don't bother to restrain myself from vengeful approaches.

Nah, the first time is just a warning - don't do that again! The second time is when they get a boot to the backside.

[BlueSage]

but what if i use the silver lined bubble while astraling?

i say "no you are now nothingness" and nothing has gotten through that. hell, i inadvertently willed a black shadowy spirit with the same thing and voila. it wasn't on the spectrum anymore.

what usually happens is that silver protective lining around me grows larger, "takes in" the said charm/prayer/object/spirit that i focus on and mixes with it and i guess neutralizes it.

[Infinite Grey]

I want opinions from people on this issue. I don't want to hurt anybody's feelings (and I apologize beforehand if I seem to).

I do claim to be [neo]pagan, but I want to share my experiences with many others in my community and on the web who also claim Paganism.

Does it ever seem like half of the people in this community (Pagans as a whole) are just simply delusional?

I mean, you know - they claim to see dragons flying over their house at night - and they are dead serious, by the way.

And that every single dream or vision is somehow a connection with a deity . . . Or that a tarot reading is being told through them directly through their God(dess) . . . I don't deny that some could be some form of connection with deity, in whatever form that's expressed. But... you know, our ancestors didn't survive on delusions themselves: There was very grueling work, sweat, and blood that they had to cross in order to even survive; Of course there were your shamans and dreamers in the community, but they always conveyed messages (from whomever, or whatever) that something was going to happen concerning that specific community.

I want everyone's experiences with this - and arguments, since we all do believe differently in some way.

I tend to view 99% of religious traditions and beliefs to be some form of delusion. Pagans usually do not annoy me anywhere near as much as the members of the Major Religions; pagans are mostly harmless.

[BlueSage]

I tend to view 99% of religious traditions and beliefs to be some form of delusion. Pagans usually do not annoy me anywhere near as much as the members of the Major Religions; pagans are mostly harmless.

harmless? i hate being called harmless lol, it really gets the ole ticker pumping... >.<

lol...i'm gonna go take a walk :(

[Silverfire Darkmoon]

Several people of the pagan bent I have known could probably be described as completely f*****g retarded instead of delusional.
Let's see...there was the one who said she could see 'atomic matter', something else about seeing 'energy', two people who claimed they were the incarnation of goddesses, several people in my current community who labour under the impression that I tolerate their presence or even like them....what else....
Things a few people in this thread have said have caused me to go "That's nice, dear", but names will not be mentioned.

[Aidron]

Nah, the first time is just a warning - don't do that again! The second time is when they get a boot to the backside.

I don't believe in warnings. If you know me, it should be warning enough that you're aware I do not like my privacy violated. :muwaha:

[Aidron]

but what if i use the silver lined bubble while astraling?

i say "no you are now nothingness" and nothing has gotten through that. hell, i inadvertently willed a black shadowy spirit with the same thing and voila. it wasn't on the spectrum anymore.

what usually happens is that silver protective lining around me grows larger, "takes in" the said charm/prayer/object/spirit that i focus on and mixes with it and i guess neutralizes it.

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiight... :eyebrow:

[Lunacie]

I don't believe in warnings. If you know me, it should be warning enough that you're aware I do not like my privacy violated. :muwaha:

The first time it happened to me, it wasn't someone who knew me. It was someone who was new to energy work and astral travel, and either ignored her teacher's cautions or the teacher forgot to caution her. But maybe the reason I haven't had any other problems is that my house is warded now? Any who try it now will get a pimp slap (not serious injury) and a temp binding.

[BlueSage]

wel as some people have said "i've been playing games" on the astral since i first projected a long time ago when i was growing up and crying myself to sleep.

i had created "games" for myself on the astral and did other things. the protective bubble i was taught by a self-proclaimed "witch" here in clarksville while she was still alive.

[BlueSage]

The first time it happened to me, it wasn't someone who knew me. It was someone who was new to energy work and astral travel, and either ignored her teacher's cautions or the teacher forgot to caution her. But maybe the reason I haven't had any other problems is that my house is warded now? Any who try it now will get a pimp slap (not serious injury) and a temp binding.

was that about 2 months ago? i'll admit i tried to "greet" you after reading one of your posts here but i sensed far too energy around your dwelling and was afraid of being "blasted away" since there were other beings there watching your dwelling.

[Lunacie]

but what if i use the silver lined bubble while astraling?

i say "no you are now nothingness" and nothing has gotten through that. hell, i inadvertently willed a black shadowy spirit with the same thing and voila. it wasn't on the spectrum anymore.

what usually happens is that silver protective lining around me grows larger, "takes in" the said charm/prayer/object/spirit that i focus on and mixes with it and i guess neutralizes it.

Actually, that's a very good way to deal with an attack, take the energy and apply it to your shield, making your shield even stronger. I don't think it's a good idea to try it with an entity or a spirit though. :foh:

[Shawn Blackwolf]

Heh. ~Small nervous chuckle~....Weirdly enough, Ive had a HUGE number of ravens at my house recently...~shifty eyes~...


Though I dont think I've been astrally attacking anyone....so, er, it, um, wasnt me! You can call your stuff n birds back..:smile:

...LOL...

No , that weren't me , Brigid...and I know it wasn't you ,
who threatened me...maybe our connection...because I also
asked them to protect all associated with me , due to energy
reflected off my shields...in other words , astral attack , and
side effects...so...maybe...just maybe...they answered the call...

You never know...8O

[BlueSage]

Actually, that's a very good way to deal with an attack, take the energy and apply it to your shield, making your shield even stronger. I don't think it's a good idea to try it with an entity or a spirit though. :foh:


why not? to absorb the energy of that being that energy then becomes your own?

[Nigel]

Conspiracy of ravens , or murder of crows , Nigel...

And I am also part Cherokee ( English Word )...

And know the root of the language , Book of Crow
Feathers , Spider Woman's Language , Copper Woman's
Language , and many others...

But you do not walk in my moccasins...nor know what
is real for me...

Enjoy your reality...blessings...:hahugh:

I didn't criticize your reality... I only spoke of what is true for me, and what I believe. I believe in the natural, not in the supernatural. I believe that people experience what they experience, but that part of the nature of the spiritual is that what is true for one person may not exist for others.

I'm half Native myself, so don't try to pull some kind of Native card on me... :hehehehe: I'm Tsalagi, Inde, and Navajo-Paiute.

[Rasari]

Now, earlier I mentioned that many pagans are either delusional or overly naive...

I feel the need to add to that....

There are also many Pagans who make outrageous or bs claims that are not delusional. Just dishonest braggarts or cons who try to portray themselves as elders or teachers in order to prey on or feed off the more trusting and openly receiving individuals in the community. Or rather, the naive ones that will bite just about any lure dangled in front of their face.

This feeds their desire of self-importance and perhaps a delusion of grandeur. As well as any other number of motivational goals or emotional needs.

Now... The delusional tend to amuse me.
The naive tend to make me concerned for their well being.
The dishonest cons and predators disgust me. And unfortunately we have so many of them.

[RoseRhythm]

Seeing a god or a dragon doesn't mean a person is delusional.

It doesn't mean you are, but it can. I probably wouldn't consider a person who had a few experiences delusional, but someone who claimed they saw them everyday might be. Honestly, I don't know. A lot of it depends on the mannerisms of the person.

[Shawn Blackwolf]

I didn't criticize your reality... I only spoke of what is true for me, and what I believe. I believe in the natural, not in the supernatural. I believe that people experience what they experience, but that part of the nature of the spiritual is that what is true for one person may not exist for others.

I'm half Native myself, so don't try to pull some kind of Native card on me... :hehehehe: I'm Tsalagi, Inde, and Navajo-Paiute.


As I am part Tsalagi , myself...and Natives have come to
me , for advice , and decoding ancient designs...

So...as far as why I said what I said...sure sounded like
you were being a little critical...thanks for clearing it
up...however...raven , as spirit messenger...is natural
law , not "super" natural...

Some people just do not experience natural law , and
the world , in the same way...Blessings on the Red Road...

[MonSno_LeeDra]

Rasari wrote:

There are also many Pagans who make outrageous or bs claims that are not delusional. Just dishonest braggarts or cons who try to portray themselves as elders or teachers in order to prey on or feed off the more trusting and openly receiving individuals in the community. Or rather, the naive ones that will bite just about any lure dangled in front of their face.


Now that statement I fully agree with. I think many times the delusional facet is encouraged by this group. If I imagine things then I have no desire to actually research and discover the truth. If I (collectively) do not research or question then they can tell me anything and I (collectively) would believe it.

Get a deep enough hold and anything any one else says is ignored or attacked for it doesn't support thier belief and / or fantasy.

[princeether]

Those who play on the astral plane , are young , inexperienced ,
and often braggarts...And , yes , they can be stopped...

With no problem , by those more advanced...just goes to show you...

QFT

I really don't understand why people feel the need to play around with, Spy on and interfere with other people in the Astral Planes. Why would you want to interupt a witch when she is working within her circle or challenge people to Astral Battles?
The Astral realms are a place to have fun, escape reality, find answers, ask for help, divine, manifest and communicate respectfully with Ancestors, Totems and Spirit Guides, not for harming or annoying others.

[Brigid Rowan]

QFT

I really don't understand why people feel the need to play around with, Spy on and interfere with other people in the Astral Planes. Why would you want to interupt a witch when she is working within her circle or challenge people to Astral Battles?


Darn good question. I'd love to hear the answer from the one who boasted about it all.

[BlueSage]

to constantly challenge oneself, increasing your abilities above the mundane day to day happenings.

[Rasari]

Rasari wrote:



Now that statement I fully agree with. I think many times the delusional facet is encouraged by this group. If I imagine things then I have no desire to actually research and discover the truth. If I (collectively) do not research or question then they can tell me anything and I (collectively) would believe it.

Get a deep enough hold and anything any one else says is ignored or attacked for it doesn't support thier belief and / or fantasy.

Yep. Or they'll play riddle games when questioned in order to avoid directly giving an answer.

Or claim you're un-enlightened and that if you were enlightened you'd agree with them.

Or that anything and everything is right, but that its somehow slightly wrong and based in or stolen from their tradition... *hh*ww*nn*

Or play the role of the poor, persecuted, misunderstood guru.

Or will make pitiful threats about how they are going to curse you, attack you or bind you for questioning them, calling them out or not believing them. Or will tell you how they did so to others in the past...

And they often talk about how they are wise, knowledgeable keepers of ancient secrets and wisdom. And how soooo many people flock to them for guidance and aid. But have no actual foundation or proof for anything. These are often the individuals who give themselves the title of Elder rather than earning it and recieving it from their community.

[Brigid Rowan]

to constantly challenge oneself, increasing your abilities above the mundane day to day happenings.


By harrassing people?

[Rasari]

to constantly challenge oneself, increasing your abilities above the mundane day to day happenings.

By annoying the piss out of people and being a nuisance?

Couldn't you just play D&D like other wannabe warrior delinquents your age?
Just keep in mind other D&D players wont take it as seriously and that actual weapons are not needed for game play...

[Lunacie]

why not? to absorb the energy of that being that energy then becomes your own?

Are you too young to remember the Star Trek series with the person who took on the symbiote of her ancestors, took on their memories and their personalities? How would you be clear about who you really are when you've taken on the energy of someone else - espcially if that energy belongs to something that's not even human?


to constantly challenge oneself, increasing your abilities above the mundane day to day happenings.

Setting up a challenge or a duel can indeed be a good way to practice and increase your abilities, but... surely you wouldn't walk into a temple and challenge the first monk you saw there? A witch in her Circle doing magic or energy work is in her Sacred Space, and you're not only messing with the witch (either her or him) but you may also be angering the gods she is calling on or the elementals she is working with. Some witches may even call on demons, and I really don't think you have enough experience or skill yet to challenge a demon.

And even if the witch is not working with a coven when you so rudely interrupt her, she may very well have a coven of experienced witches who have her back - and answer her call to defend her. They would have the obvious advantage of superior numbers.

[princeether]

A witch in her Circle doing magic or energy work is in her Sacred Space, and you're not only messing with the witch (either her or him) but you may also be angering the gods she is calling on or the elementals she is working with. Some witches may even call on demons, and I really don't think you have enough experience or skill yet to challenge a demon.

And even if the witch is not working with a coven when you so rudely interrupt her, she may very well have a coven of experienced witches who have her back - and answer her call to defend her. They would have the obvious advantage of superior numbers.

You took the words right out of my mouth Lunacie...2 excellent reasons to show the utmost respect for others and their private magical workings when Astrally Projecting.

[Fiamma]

Just a thought: is the more "colourful" end of the market (seeing dragons, invisible wolf guardians, etc) really all that different from, say speaking in tongues, or having visions, at the more exotic end of more mainstream religions?

Prolly not, and there's no shortage of people calling them delusional, posessed, evil, satanic, whatever.

[Xentor]

Does it ever seem like half of the people in this community (Pagans as a whole) are just simply delusional?

I mean, you know - they claim to see dragons flying over their house at night - and they are dead serious, by the way.

Delusional? Probably. Some scientists suggest that the entire ability to experience religion is a mutated brain functionality that no human should have at all, but does seem to serve the purpose of religious experience.

I'd say we're no less delusional than the next human.

[Aidron]

was that about 2 months ago? i'll admit i tried to "greet" you after reading one of your posts here but i sensed far too energy around your dwelling and was afraid of being "blasted away" since there were other beings there watching your dwelling.

Admitting to something like that just screams of harassment, invasion of privacy, and stalking. Have you considered taking some lessons in basic manners and trying to apply common sense to your life? :rolleyes:

[Xentor]

I agree.. especially with the people who claim to see dragons. I read a thread on that a while ago and all I could think was 'what..the..' I have nothing whatsoever against pagans who believe in those types of.. experiences.. if that is part of their spiritual belief and makes them feel a closer connection to whatever it is they believe. All the power to them. I just can not bring myself to believe in actual flying, fire-breathing, scaly dragons.

Funny you should say that. I too, don't believe in dragons. Sure, there are komodo dragons in Indonesia somewhere, but we know we aren't talking about those.

Funny, because I once had a baby dragon living in my appartment. I knew it wasn't there in any physical sense, but for all intents and purposes, it occupied my living room and made me trip over my feet. With the help of some friends I got it to leave, sent it back home.

I still don't believe in dragons.

[la tortuga]

Oh Hell yes, I believe the majority of Pagans are delusional, usually of the self-deluded variety. Before you know it, they delude each other and then it ultimately winds up in a mass hysteria of delusion.

Anything Pagans say I take with a grain of salt. I believe in a lot of unusual things, I admit, but I always maintain an open mind that I could be wrong and realize that at the end of the day there are no hardcore facts for me to back up my beliefs - which is why they are beliefs.

I really start to lose it after about 5 minutes of listening to some Pagan go on and on about all sorts of fantastical things. I become unable to keep my eyes from rolling and ultimately, that's no fun for me or them. So, I tend to maintain a safe distance from other Pagans before they suddenly spout out "I lived on the Isle of Avalon in a past life!" and I vomit all over myself in utter horror. :eyebrow:

QFT!!!!!

Honestly, sometimes I feel like I must not be religious at all... I look at myself and I look at others who emphatically believe in something and somehow I feel left out... I'm too suspicious to believe in anything so much.

However, all religions do inspire some sort of delusions. Christianity teaches that the earth is 6000 years old and we know it isn't, creationism is the same way... I think that the problem with ALL religion is that it doesn't grow and change unless it's unstructured. My religion is private, personal, and nobody's damn business... therefore I can change it as I see fit. The balance of the religious belief and the ability to see evidence and edit religious belief is a very, very difficult balance to achieve for some people... and that's how you get delusional fanatics. :)

[Xentor]

Admitting to something like that just screams of harassment, invasion of privacy, and stalking. Have you considered taking some lessons in basic manners and trying to apply common sense to your life? :rolleyes:

That's what I thought. Why do people have curtains? So you won't look. Can you look? Sure. Should you? Prolly not, unless you want your ass handed to you.

There's always a bigger fish.

[childofbast]

I think a lot of people can be delusional seeming. A lot of my Pagan friends laugh at me because I'm more academic than most and thus more skeptical than most. Hence...I'm not the most new agey person in the world.

That being said, I do believe in fairies and dragons and such, but I've never seen one ( don't think...). I take the approach of one of my professors, who happens to be a psychology professor: if it doesn't get in the way of a person's life, they are healthy and functional. So someone claiming to see fairies doesn't bother me *that* much until they start talking about how their path is the right path and if you do this you'll also be able to see fairies, if only you'll buy their crappy book that continues to perpetuate false truths.

Otherwise, peace and love, just don't bother me... lol

[BlackLili]

That's what I thought. Why do people have curtains? So you won't look. Can you look? Sure. Should you? Prolly not, unless you want your ass handed to you.

There's always a bigger fish.

My emphasis on your quote, but most definitely and should be repeatedly, quoted for truth.

[BlueSage]

My emphasis on your quote, but most definitely and should be repeatedly, quoted for truth.

i understand, which is why i try to perfect myself in everyway....

[BlackLili]

i understand, which is why i try to perfect myself in everyway....

While I realize this will have as much effect as talking to a wall, I will still respond.

You don't get it.

By invading someone else's space - even astrally - you're being an unmitigated tool.

Attempting to perfect yourself is entirely and absolutely not even the friggin point.

But that's cool. You're obtuse. I understand. Some folk are born obtuse, some achieve an obtusity (my word) - and the rest of us have your obtuseness thrust upon us.

[Philosophia]

i understand, which is why i try to perfect myself in everyway....

How is doing what you claim to do "perfecting yourself"?

[Lunacie]

i understand, which is why i try to perfect myself in everyway....

I hope you do understand what we've been saying to you about respecting other people's space and privacy, and their energy as well. You don't perfect your abilities to socialize by breaking into someone's house while they're having sex and I don't think you'd be suprised to have them take a baseball bat or a butcher knife to you if you were to do that. But I'd still like to hear in your own words that you really do get what we're saying about not using astral travel to just drop in on people without calling ahead to see if they're busy. M'kay?

[BlueSage]

How is doing what you claim to do "perfecting yourself"?


because you get better and better at a certain magical artform.

[BlueSage]

I hope you do understand what we've been saying to you about respecting other people's space and privacy, and their energy as well. You don't perfect your abilities to socialize by breaking into someone's house while they're having sex and I don't think you'd be suprised to have them take a baseball bat or a butcher knife to you if you were to do that. But I'd still like to hear in your own words that you really do get what we're saying about not using astral travel to just drop in on people without calling ahead to see if they're busy. M'kay?

if they got a bat and club we'd have a fight on our hands but no...i don't go around picking fights. i'm like a "wanderer" looking for things to do, new things to experience, new magical arts to accomplish, more energies to gain through "bonding."

[Lunacie]

if they got a bat and club we'd have a fight on our hands but no...i don't go around picking fights. i'm like a "wanderer" looking for things to do, new things to experience, new magical arts to accomplish, more energies to gain through "bonding."

It's still polite to ask for permission to "bond" with someone else, astrally or physically or in any way. Not asking first will certainly get you a fight, whether you want it or not. There are many places you can visit astrally to improve your "wanderer" abilities without dropping in on people unannounced.

[BlueSage]

no, i was taught while on the astral plane that "bonding" is when you take in the energy (negative, positive, yin, yang, color, cause/effect) it "bonds" to you and becomes part of you.

that's what i though "bonding" is/was. for example someone casts a spell on you, while the "energy" behind the spells has to travel through the grid (or strong enough through the plane) and you can then bond with that pure energy thus nullifying the spell and giving you a few moments surge of energy.

[Lunacie]

no, i was taught while on the astral plane that "bonding" is when you take in the energy (negative, positive, yin, yang, color, cause/effect) it "bonds" to you and becomes part of you.

that's what i though "bonding" is/was.

Ah, bonding to me means sharing energy (or other experiences) with another person. Where are you getting the energy you are "bonding with" when you astral travel?

[Brigid Rowan]

no, i was taught while on the astral plane that "bonding" is when you take in the energy (negative, positive, yin, yang, color, cause/effect) it "bonds" to you and becomes part of you.

that's what i though "bonding" is/was.

:goodgrief I so lost...who taught you all this stuff? The invasion of others privacy, the piecemealing of random energies onto you ..who told you this all was a good plan?

[Sequoia]

i understand, which is why i try to perfect myself in everyway....

Yeah, try "perfecting" yourself on my house, buddy, and see what happens. :lol:

Seriously... don't you have better things to do? I'm willing to be that half of what you're 'experiencing' is imaginary anyway. Or so insignificant in the grand scheme of things that it may as well be imaginary.

Invading others' privacy is not the same as bettering oneself. Unless you're attempting to better your skills at invading privacy. Which it sounds like you are. That's not an admirable thing to do, you realize?

I'll never understand why people enjoy being "astral warriors" and acting out their D&D fantasies in a metaphysical form. Is it really THAT exciting and special-feeling? Do you not realize you look absolutely silly dancing around inside your house "battling", "invading", "spying", or otherwise blatantly stumbling your way about the 'astral plane'?

When you're that egotistical, you're dead clumsy astrally. Loud, obvious, and definitively observable. Anybody can see you coming from a mile away. And so can their defenses.

Actively invading others' space in order to improve one's abilities is pretty self-defeating. You aren't going to learn much from it, unless your end goal is to be able to break into people's houses or other sacred spaces. In which case... why on earth would you want to do that? Or does that fall under the "I'm an ASTRAL RONIN, I can do surveillance ASTRALLY and I can SPY on YOUUU which makes me MIGHTY!" mindset?

I just fail to see the goods behind the hype. I used to be into "astral" crap, especially the idea that there were battles on a daily basis and that everyone was out to get you. Save for RARE occasions, I realize now that most of it is untrue, and downright imaginary. Self-inflicted, if you will.

It's like the kids who think the apocalypse is going to happen any day now, ANY day now, and THEY are at the center of it. They're somehow more mystical and magical than thou, and they're going to change the WORLD.

It's all fun and games, but why would you waste your time on something like that? I grew out of it when I was seventeen. When are you folks going to?

[Aidron]

i understand, which is why i try to perfect myself in everyway....

I'll just say this:

If you are attempting to perfect yourself, you're being foolish. We can never achieve perfection. If you are attempting to improve yourself, that is all any of us can do.

However, if you believe that you have the right to improve yourself at the expense of me or my privacy, prepare to be shocked and amazed.

[WitchyLady777]

FlIppin delusional people exist in all religions, including Paganism, sure...

[VroomBroom]

Yeah, try "perfecting" yourself on my house, buddy, and see what happens. :lol:

Seriously... don't you have better things to do? I'm willing to be that half of what you're 'experiencing' is imaginary anyway. Or so insignificant in the grand scheme of things that it may as well be imaginary.

Invading others' privacy is not the same as bettering oneself. Unless you're attempting to better your skills at invading privacy. Which it sounds like you are. That's not an admirable thing to do, you realize?

I'll never understand why people enjoy being "astral warriors" and acting out their D&D fantasies in a metaphysical form. Is it really THAT exciting and special-feeling? Do you not realize you look absolutely silly dancing around inside your house "battling", "invading", "spying", or otherwise blatantly stumbling your way about the 'astral plane'?

When you're that egotistical, you're dead clumsy astrally. Loud, obvious, and definitively observable. Anybody can see you coming from a mile away. And so can their defenses.

Actively invading others' space in order to improve one's abilities is pretty self-defeating. You aren't going to learn much from it, unless your end goal is to be able to break into people's houses or other sacred spaces. In which case... why on earth would you want to do that? Or does that fall under the "I'm an ASTRAL RONIN, I can do surveillance ASTRALLY and I can SPY on YOUUU which makes me MIGHTY!" mindset?

I just fail to see the goods behind the hype. I used to be into "astral" crap, especially the idea that there were battles on a daily basis and that everyone was out to get you. Save for RARE occasions, I realize now that most of it is untrue, and downright imaginary. Self-inflicted, if you will.

It's like the kids who think the apocalypse is going to happen any day now, ANY day now, and THEY are at the center of it. They're somehow more mystical and magical than thou, and they're going to change the WORLD.

It's all fun and games, but why would you waste your time on something like that? I grew out of it when I was seventeen. When are you folks going to?

I couldn't have said it better myself! :thumbsup:

[thought_on_a_wind]

Any religion you go to, every walk of life, every type of belief or non-belief you look at will provide results of insanity along the fanatical minority (or in the case of some religions it seems the majority). Delusions are the folly of all I suppose. Epiphany is exchanging a new delusion for an old one, or stipping bare any delusions previously had.

Are delusions harmless? I figure as long as one doesn't hurt another its all good... I've seen both sides of the coin in the pagan community, hell, I've even gone down that path myself. However, given my own experiences, I wouldn't decry that there is a more perceptible link beyond the veil.... if someone makes a claim on just about anything, including pagan, weigh in questions like, Is this person trying to feed that insatiable creature known as the ego? What do they have to gain from telling me this? Are the walls, or a God telling this individual to kill someone?

If the person has been of sound character and hasn't had many mental instabilities before now, and isn't overwhelmed by stress, then maybe that phenomena is real.

Of course, I guess the problem with that assersion is that phenomena can tend to show up in strength when someone is stressed...

[thought_on_a_wind]

You know, it just occured to me that since I view everyone as insane, what are a couple delusional ideals to go around? If you disagree with me then fine, I'm certifiably the above, and love every minute of it :smile:

[Solya]

because you get better and better at a certain magical artform.

At the cost of what, precisely? Everything comes at a certain price and the price you pay for supposed "perfection" in a magical artform might be a tad too high. Dropping in on people astrally is just asking for trouble... that's not about perfecting yourself, but about being too stubborn to realise that you can train yourself in other ways as well.

I also do quite a lot of astral travel, but I only "invade" people's space when they want me to be there. I know I'd probably be able to get through certain wards and stuff, but I simply don't do it because I respect the other person. It's a simple courtesy which you would extend to people in real life just as much as on the astral plane.

[erika]

i understand, which is why i try to perfect myself in everyway....

you can perfect your ability to stay out of my mystic wicks karma and not tell me to "apply my reason" when you clearly don't apply yours. You clearly also had nothing to base such a comment on. What I called anothers users beliefs "interesting"? That does not make them mine but I respect others and the paths they follow and there is nothing wrong with showing an interest in how other people view this world. That does not make me unreasonable or 'suggestable' as you felt you had to comment.

I did not appreciate your uninformed opinion of me. And if you have so called 'advice' please inform yourself and know a something about me before throwing comments out there.

[Lunacie]

At the cost of what, precisely? Everything comes at a certain price and the price you pay for supposed "perfection" in a magical artform might be a tad too high. Dropping in on people astrally is just asking for trouble... that's not about perfecting yourself, but about being too stubborn to realise that you can train yourself in other ways as well.

I also do quite a lot of astral travel, but I only "invade" people's space when they want me to be there. I know I'd probably be able to get through certain wards and stuff, but I simply don't do it because I respect the other person. It's a simple courtesy which you would extend to people in real life just as much as on the astral plane.

Yep, well said. I know there are people who see a home filled with nice things and a good set of locks or even an alarm system as a challenge, and getting into that home would help them improve their skills as a burgler, sooner or later they will get caught and pay the consequences.

Same thing with seeing a nice set of magical wards and proctections on someone's private space. Figuring out how to get past them would certainly be good practice, but it's still "breaking and entering", and people will be just as angry with the "astral burgler" as with someone who's there to rip off their personal belongings.

The only difference is that with astral invasion you don't have the cops putting you in handcuffs, taking you to jail, going to court, and spending time in prison. What you get is a crap shoot - maybe you won't get caught, maybe the person you've invaded will be pissed but let you off with a lecture, or maybe the person will defend their space with guns blazing (metaphysically) and some of them can be very imaginative in their idea of the proper consequences.

[Infinite Grey]

harmless? i hate being called harmless lol, it really gets the ole ticker pumping... >.<

lol...i'm gonna go take a walk :(

Well lets see if you're harmless or not...


Do you subscribe to any dogma or doctrine that not only justifies the killing of people that do not believe as you, but encourages it?
Do you subscribe to a "us and them" or/and "you're with us or against us" dogma or doctrine?
Do you hold any political influence that is a result of religious or spiritual beliefs beyond the ability to vote?
Have you a desire to form a theocratic state?
Do you have a strict set of dogmas and doctrines that dictate; what you can eat, who you can have sex with, when you can have sex, who you can marry, when to pray, how to pray, who you can be friends with, who is innocent, and so on?


The list goes on, but I'm busy watching House M.D.

Essentially if you can't say yes to most of those, then you're essentially harmless to the majority of a humanity as a result that your religious or spiritual beliefs.

[Silverfire Darkmoon]

i understand, which is why i try to perfect myself in everyway....

http://samueljscott.files.wordpress.com/2007/04/homer_simpson.jpg
As this wise man once said, trying is the first step towards failure. You, sir, fail.

[erika]

Hey you're from hamilton too!

[childofbast]

Any religion you go to, every walk of life, every type of belief or non-belief you look at will provide results of insanity along the fanatical minority (or in the case of some religions it seems the majority). Delusions are the folly of all I suppose. Epiphany is exchanging a new delusion for an old one, or stipping bare any delusions previously had.

Are delusions harmless? I figure as long as one doesn't hurt another its all good... I've seen both sides of the coin in the pagan community, hell, I've even gone down that path myself. However, given my own experiences, I wouldn't decry that there is a more perceptible link beyond the veil.... if someone makes a claim on just about anything, including pagan, weigh in questions like, Is this person trying to feed that insatiable creature known as the ego? What do they have to gain from telling me this? Are the walls, or a God telling this individual to kill someone?

If the person has been of sound character and hasn't had many mental instabilities before now, and isn't overwhelmed by stress, then maybe that phenomena is real.

Of course, I guess the problem with that assersion is that phenomena can tend to show up in strength when someone is stressed...

I totally agree - and karma to you!

[lunatala]

I am curious about your age, because of the statements you are making you sound like an angry teenager who gets picked on alot in the physical world and the only way you feel powerful is to intrude into other peoples space on the astral plane. In the physical world we call that a stalker; peeping tom; abuse of power, I could go on but whats the point.

I figure you are either doing this because of insecurity or to just see how mad you can get people. Maybe I am wrong (would not be the first time) and your just a RUDE individual with a (for lack of a better term) God complex who thinks that it is his devine right to go anywhere he pleases whether it is someone elses space or not.

Your posting that: " I broke into a witche's bubble who was like upper 60 years old and she attempted to cast me out as a demon."

I am not sure why you think this would impress anyone, I mean just because shes in her 60's does not mean she has been on her path for a long time. The fact that she assumed you we're a demon speaks volumes about her and about you.

I admit that I do not astral travel or "play" on the astral plane but the fact that you said "well i have never been stopped...i've been "noticed" but never stopped." Amazes me, I don't believe that you have not ever been stopped I just think you are to egotiscial to believe anything other than you made you fade out.

I also agree with Lunacie and Aidron that if you come in their space uninvited they have the right to smack you back to reality. Maybe that is what you need. As was said earlier "There is always someone bigger, meaner, tougher, more intellegent, wiser, more experienced than you".

But this is just my opinion.

[Aidron]

I am curious about your age, because of the statements you are making you sound like an angry teenager who gets picked on alot in the physical world and the only way you feel powerful is to intrude into other peoples space on the astral plane. In the physical world we call that a stalker; peeping tom; abuse of power, I could go on but whats the point.

I figure you are either doing this because of insecurity or to just see how mad you can get people. Maybe I am wrong (would not be the first time) and your just a RUDE individual with a (for lack of a better term) God complex who thinks that it is his devine right to go anywhere he pleases whether it is someone elses space or not.

Your posting that: " I broke into a witche's bubble who was like upper 60 years old and she attempted to cast me out as a demon."

I am not sure why you think this would impress anyone, I mean just because shes in her 60's does not mean she has been on her path for a long time. The fact that she assumed you we're a demon speaks volumes about her and about you.

I admit that I do not astral travel or "play" on the astral plane but the fact that you said "well i have never been stopped...i've been "noticed" but never stopped." Amazes me, I don't believe that you have not ever been stopped I just think you are to egotiscial to believe anything other than you made you fade out.

I also agree with Lunacie and Aidron that if you come in their space uninvited they have the right to smack you back to reality. Maybe that is what you need. As was said earlier "There is always someone bigger, meaner, tougher, more intellegent, wiser, more experienced than you".

But this is just my opinion.


I so totally heart you. _pounce_

A post of epic brilliance.

I am a whole lot meaner (and perhaps tougher) than most anyone I know. I have no sense of restraint or mercy when it comes to striking back as I see no point in exercising such. Violate me or that which I care about and I will make it a point to annihilate everything you are or care about. End of story.

Luckily, I'm a very patient and calm person, so I haven't had to demonstrate that side of my personality (also known as my Scorpio Moon, har, har, har) in almost a decade.

[Silverfire Darkmoon]

I am curious about your age, because of the statements you are making you sound like an angry teenager who gets picked on alot

He's something like 25 going on 9.

[BlackLili]

He's something like 25 going on 9.
I thought the answer here was 17? I get a distinct 17yo vibe there...

[Philosophia]

because you get better and better at a certain magical artform.

So breaking into a person's personal space is somehow "perfecting" a magical art form?

[lunatala]

Like I said I think this about a powertrip/God complex whatever you want to call it. I also believe this is a perfect example of the original thread "could some pagans be simply delusional?"

I am not saying that the astral plane is delusional, I am saying that someone who has obviously not learned about boundries and believes that they can cross those kind of lines without any kind of consequences is delusional. Whether those consequences are karmic, from the gods or the person you have pissed off to no end, I believe they will be there.

I also think that because the delusional are the most outspoken in the community, that is where everyone gets the idea that we are all looking for a powertrip to control everyone or that we are that eccentric hippie.

But again this is just my opinon and I tend to be a bit brutal (lost of Scorpio in my chart).