The Pentacle, God and Godess originate from Astrology?

[DracoJesi]

I came across a site that suggested the Pentacle as well as the concept of Goddess and God as a duality are the brain-children of Astrology and even gives an explanation (doesn't come out and say it though) as to why the Goddess seems to be of More focus than the God.

It mentions a hunter God and a Goddess of fertility and that for a time, the God aspect was loss in the Goddess.

you would think that the four parts of the Pentacle relate to four signs, one of each element, however the article says that the four points slowly move, so I'm not sure what the deal is there.

that being said, the article was really an eye opener for me, and has really peeked my interest, and I really want to know more about this, plus I couldn't just not show this to you guys....

personally I find this a little Ironic, in the fact Astrology was the first occult -based reading I did :)

clicky! (http://www.symbols.com/encyclopedia/29/2914.html)

[BlueOcean]

Well, here goes.

Afaik..The pentacle is the crudest geometrical shape that both has an outside and inside.
it has a pentagon inside enclose by and pentagram outside. This is only possible to encomplish
with a pentagram. A square doesnt have an inside or an outside. Pentagram is also unicursal.
(Oh, the next geometrical figure is the hexagram, which now strikes me as a bit od, since it can't be
unicursal and still preserve the hexagon inside. Septa and Octagrams can also be drawn unicursaly
and retain thei respective septagon and octagon inside.) If you draw a line between the points on the
pentagram you get a very crude approximation of a circle. The higher the number of points, the
more higher the resoulution of the outside will be.

[DracoJesi]

Well, here goes.

Afaik..The pentacle is the crudest geometrical shape that both has an outside and inside.
it has a pentagon inside enclose by and pentagram outside. This is only possible to encomplish
with a pentagram. A square doesnt have an inside or an outside. Pentagram is also unicursal.
(Oh, the next geometrical figure is the hexagram, which now strikes me as a bit od, since it can't be
unicursal and still preserve the hexagon inside. Septa and Octagrams can also be drawn unicursaly
and retain thei respective septagon and octagon inside.) If you draw a line between the points on the
pentagram you get a very crude approximation of a circle. The higher the number of points, the
more higher the resoulution of the outside will be.

first of all, I fail to see how this relates,

secondly


it has a pentagon inside enclose by and pentagram outside. This is only possible to encomplish
with a pentagram

this is illogical, it's like saying a+a=a or 1+1=1,

if said object has a pentagram outside and inside, it is more than a pentagram...

thirdly...

in a 3d sense, a square isn't considered to have an inside, at least not in terms of volume, but 2d wise, yes it does, just like a circle.

fourthly

I think you are confusing hexagon with pentagon as well as pentagram with pentacle...

fifthly, I think, instead of resolution, you mean circumference, but you might have lost me all together....

also, what do you mean by "unicursal" are you trying to make a reference to circumference or are you trying to spell universal?

[Autumn]

The duality of energy is something we find across many cultures and times, reverence of Gods and Goddesses go with this understanding. This even exists in Chinese thought even though the astrologic system is very different from the western one.

To my frustration I can't find my copy of Triumph of the Moon by Ronald Hutton but I do know that Pentacles are important in masonic ritual and that forms the backbone of many aspects of Wicca. Astrology saved a great deal of vital western knowledge during the dark ages and can be used to clarify a wealth of things. however I don't believe it is the source of the gods and goddesses as much as one way of expressing the concepts.

That website was about as clear as mud by the way.

[DracoJesi]

The duality of energy is something we find across many cultures and times, reverence of Gods and Goddesses go with this understanding. This even exists in Chinese thought even though the astrologic system is very different from the western one.

To my frustration I can't find my copy of Triumph of the Moon by Ronald Hutton but I do know that Pentacles are important in masonic ritual and that forms the backbone of many aspects of Wicca. Astrology saved a great deal of vital western knowledge during the dark ages and can be used to clarify a wealth of things. however I don't believe it is the source of the gods and goddesses as much as one way of expressing the concepts.

That website was about as clear as mud by the way.

I agree thats just a way of describing a bigger concept, but with all the symbolism mention, I think it could have been an important part of the evolution of these concepts, what strikes me is how it can be viewed as having these connections of the concept of deity and still manage to form a pentacle like that.... either way, it's a striking resemblance that makes you think.

and yes, I'll agree that the article was a little unorganized, more like a bunch of citations than articles, , but I'd pick up quite a bit despite that.

I wasn't ware of the pentacle being used by Masons however :), something I'll have to look into, thanks :)

[Autumn]

Read Triumph of the Moon!!!!!!

[DracoJesi]

Read Triumph of the Moon!!!!!!

alright, I'll add it to my ever-growing wanted list xd

[Kadynas]

you would think that the four parts of the Pentacle relate to four signs, one of each element, however the article says that the four points slowly move, so I'm not sure what the deal is there.

Didn't read the article, but the "moving" pentacle may relate to the orbit of Venus... Venus' orbit traces a pentacle in the sky. The "points" are thus in motion, as Venus is in motion.

[plumedsnake]

I agree thats just a way of describing a bigger concept, but with all the symbolism mention, I think it could have been an important part of the evolution of these concepts

I don't think that dieties are 'concepts' that have been subject to evolution. Religion, astrology etc etc come from the same tradition and are integral parts of each other. It is only exoterically that they are seen as different things.

The entire bible is choc-a-bloc with astrology and so is most other religions that I've come across.

[plumedsnake]

The duality of energy is something we find across many cultures and times,

And not only will you find it in cultures and times, but everywhere you care to look. day and night, up and down, awake and asleep. The duality of energy is just the way the world is.

[DracoJesi]

I don't think that dieties are 'concepts' that have been subject to evolution. Religion, astrology etc etc come from the same tradition and are integral parts of each other. It is only exoterically that they are seen as different things.

The entire bible is choc-a-bloc with astrology and so is most other religions that I've come across.

I didn't mean concept as in a fictional since, but rather our concept or understanding of them, seeing them as you do, perhaps I should have explained better :lol: