Babylonian Recons?

[Babylon]

~Hi everyone, I'm pretty much new around here just wondering where all the Babylonian pagans are at? well I'm one at least, but usually I'm only able to find Sumerian and Canaanite recons in pagan communities hehe :)

In any case, if anyone's interested in Babylonian polytheism just fire away your questions and I'll try to answer. I've read tons of books and have been on the path for over a decade.

[Seren_]

Welcome to the boards, Babylon!

I'm CR myself, but always interested in learning about different paths. I don't think I've ever met any Babylonian recons...Perhaps if you could post some good links/books? It's always good to have pointers to reliable information for anyone who's looking for it :D Are there any organisations for Bablyonian polytheists, or is it pretty much solitary?

[Babylon]

There might be organizations but I'm not aware of any right now, or I ran into one before and just forgot about em, I'm not sure. I can only say that I'm solitary and have met a few others in the past who claimed to belong to their own "groups."

For specifically learning about the gods of ancient Mesopotamia, including Sumerian, Babylonian, Assyrian, I recommend Black & Green's Dictionary of Gods, Demons, and Symbols.

For a nice general overview there's Jean Bottero's Religion in ancient Mesopotamia. It has some good quotes from texts and poetry, and even the personal and private religious experience of everyday life, not only the royalty and priesthoods.

I always do recommend the mythology of the times. Sumerian mythology is native to Sumer itself, however Babylonian mythology is separate since it was originally native to the Amorites of Syria (not to be confused with Canaanites), who eventually came to rule over old Sumer and surrounding territories. They shared some gods akin to both cultures (or early assimilation took place), and others are completely different (Amorite in origin).

[David19]

Thanks for the info you just provided, it was quite cool.

I'm a Sumerian recon myself, although I don't know too much about the Babylonian religion, I assumed it was similar to the Sumerian one, just with some differences, like, for example, the place of Marduk and Tiamet.

I can definantly recommend that book 'Gods, Demons and Symbols of Mesopotamia', it's a great book for things related to Mesopotamian religions and mythologies, I can also recommend 'The Treasures of Darkness' by Thorkild Jacobsen, although I'm not sure if you use it for the Babylonian religion.

I've only ever known of 2 other Babylonian recons, if you go on to this Recon yahoo group (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ReconstructionistInterfaith/?yguid=217809376), specifically this message, by marduk192 (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ReconstructionistInterfaith/message/5766) and this one
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ReconstructionistInterfaith/message/5767), to see more of marduk192's posts, just search for his name in the group, he seems quite a knowledgable Babylonian recon, although he doesn't seem to have posted in ages there.

There's also Babylonian Magick (http://www.angelfire.com/tx/tintirbabylon/content.html), a really good site, I like it although it's Babylonian focused than Sumerian.

Then there's Gateways to Babylon (http://www.gatewaystobabylon.com/) - another really cool site with great articles and great info, although some of the info they have in certain articles have to be taken with a grain of salt and some are more UPG based (like for example this one called 'Sumerian religion and the Eternal Return' (http://www.gatewaystobabylon.com/religion/eternal.htm), which, basically, states reincarnation was a part of the Sumerian/Mesopotamian afterlife, when it wasn't and reincarnation probably didn't enter the Middle East for thousands of years afterwards, I think anyway, from what I remember someone telling me (who's very knowledgable on the Sumerian religion, culture and people)). Aside from that, it's a great site.

This site, Temple of Sumer (http://http://templeofsumer.org/) is the group I'm with, it's run by a great guy who's very knowledgable on the Sumerian religion, like I said. I know it's Sumerian so different to your religion, but you might like some of it.

Also, have you thought about joining Tablets of Destiny, a Recon Yahoo group (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TabletofDestiny/), I'm not sure how many Babylonian recons are there, I think there might be some, I know the guy who owns and runs the site Babylonian Magick is there, and there might be some more. I'm on there and it's a great place, full of cool knowledgable people (both recons and other Pagans and Occultists), you might want to join.

Other than that, I haven't heard of many other Babylonian recons.

I think I'll probably have a lot of questions for you, as I love learning about Mesopotamia and its religions, cultures and people, even though I'm a Sumerian recon.

Actually, I have just thought of one question. My personal Goddess is Ereshkigal, and I was just wondering, how popular was she in the Babylonian religion, and have there been any poems, rituals, etc that have been founded that were/are dedicated to her? (I'm really interested in knowing everything about Ereshkigal in all eras of Mesopotamia, that's why I'm also interested in how she was worshiped in Greco-Egypt, and she was syncretized with Hecate although I don't see them as being the "same", but maybe they have some kind of relationship).

Anyway, I think I probably rambled on for a bit, but I'm glad to see a Babylonian recon and I look forward to seeing a lot more of your posts :).

[Babylon]

thanks for all the info

I like learning about the history and the people too, especially the exploits of famous kings and warfare, not only the spiritual side. I like to think they were a very passionate and practical kind of people who cared deeply about their culture and their beliefs.

oh you like Ereshkigal so much? You do know who she is don't you? The pale white lady of death. One look into her eyes and you could end up a corpse! lol only kidding, actually even though she is dark natured and could turn even gods into dust, the underworld gods love worship too and generally do not wish to harm us just because they are dark. She would be honored you think of her so highly! I will see what all I have about her mythology. There is quite a bit of it. She was also called Allatu, simply meaning "the goddess." She may have been the Syrian goddess Allat that was popular in Roman Syria and equated with Athena.

I hope that helps a bit?

[David19]

thanks for all the info

No problem :).


I like learning about the history and the people too, especially the exploits of famous kings and warfare, not only the spiritual side. I like to think they were a very passionate and practical kind of people who cared deeply about their culture and their beliefs.

That's what I like too, and I also think the Mesopotamian peoples were really passionate. One thing I really love about them is the fact they placed more emphasis on enjoying and truly living life, and not to really worry about death, as death was something you couldn't escape. I can't remember the exact quote but in the Epic of Gilgamesh, when Gilgamesh wants to become immortal and goes on that quest, some being (I really can't remember who it was, it was a female, although I'm not sure if she was a Goddess?) gave a great speech about not worrying about death, and to enjoy life, to truly live life to the full. I think it's a great and powerful speech and something that can speak to everyone, in whatever time period, even today.

There's so many cool and beautiful things in the Sumerian religion and culture, and all things Mesopotamian (I'd even like to get Jean Bottero's book on Mesopotamian food which includes recipies on how to make it, 'The Oldest Cuisine in the World: Cooking in Mesopotamia' (http://www.amazon.com/Oldest-Cuisine-World-Cooking-Mesopotamia/dp/0226067351), as I love cooking (or doing anything creative basically) and I'd like to try the food, and hopefully, make some offerings for the Gods, especially Ereshkigal).




oh you like Ereshkigal so much? You do know who she is don't you? The pale white lady of death. One look into her eyes and you could end up a corpse! lol only kidding, actually even though she is dark natured and could turn even gods into dust, the underworld gods love worship too and generally do not wish to harm us just because they are dark. She would be honored you think of her so highly! I will see what all I have about her mythology. There is quite a bit of it. She was also called Allatu, simply meaning "the goddess." She may have been the Syrian goddess Allat that was popular in Roman Syria and equated with Athena.

Thanks for the info, and I hope Ereshkigal is pleased with how much I really admire and think of her highly. I haven't been the best worshipper (I still need to create a proper altar and do proper rituals and prayers for her), but I intend to be the best worshipper I can be for her. I'd appreciate anything you could dig up about Ereshkigal, and that's interesting about her having connections with Athena, I knew she was called Allatu in Babylon and, I think, Assyria (please correct me if I'm wrong :)). I personally wouldn't see Athena and Ereshkigal as the same, but if it's true that they were syncretized, I think they might have some kind of relationship with each other.

Also, I didn't know she could turn Gods into dust (I knew she hung Inanna on a hook, and Inanna turned into, basically, rotten meat), that's quite cool, IMO, anyway.

BTW, if you don't mind, do you have a personal God, and if you do, who is it (if it's not to private, feel free to tell me to but out of that one :)).


I hope that helps a bit?

It does, although I've got another question, if you don't mind. Do you know of what style prayers should be in, it's just many other religions have styles and standards that prayers should be in (e.g. certain positions, certain phrases, etc), but I'm not too sure how to frame Sumerian prayers to the Gods, or to Ereshkigal.

I'd appreciate any help you could give me on that.

Thanks :).

[Babylon]

""""BTW, if you don't mind, do you have a personal God, and if you do, who is it (if it's not to private, feel free to tell me to but out of that one""""

""""It does, although I've got another question, if you don't mind. Do you know of what style prayers should be in, it's just many other religions have styles and standards that prayers should be in (e.g. certain positions, certain phrases, etc), but I'm not too sure how to frame Sumerian prayers to the Gods, or to Ereshkigal.""""

I have a few of the more important deities that I feel closest to, sure. Marduk, Sarpanitu, Nebo and Nisaba are my personal patrons.

But actually, have you read about those "personal" gods (reminds me of guardian angels) that as far as I know everyone had with them? Yeah they weren't any of the main gods, more like guardian spirits that deities sent out to their worshippers. But I don't know if the people actually worshipped them specifically and daily? as in like household spirits type of thing like the Romans had, or that these spirits were just thought to be protecting and blessing people who worshipped their patron deities.

It is a bit confusing, and I don't wanna try to equate Babylonian practices with foreign ones like Roman or Greek. I'm wondering what you thought about this too since I'm pretty sure these spirits were also found in Sumerian religion. When the prayers speak of praying to "your god daily" its not clear if they mean those spirits or an actual deity. So until I find out more details about all that stuff I mainly worship the deities themselves.


This might seem foreign to you, I don't know, but I focus on Babylonian astral religion in my worship so the 7 planetary deities are the ones I concentrate on the most. There is one for each day of the week so it makes worship easy and fun . Do you know which deities align to which planets? (this includes the sun and moon and the five visible planets, but also the zodiac system itself was included!).

While I'm not a Sumerian polytheist, I hope I might at least have some useful information. Here is what I have learned and do for my rituals.

Worship should begin in the early evening when the sun sets and the moon is brightly visible in the sky (well, sometimes it isn't visible or its cloudy so whenever the sun is setting, or awhile afterwords if you simply can't at that time), as this marks a new day (unless you wanna go solar and start with the rising sun at dawn, but I kinda like that traditional lunar feeling heh :)).

Other than lunar days, monthly I just stick with a solar calendar). This type of worship was used in Roman Syria, where a late Neo Babylonian pantheon still thrived for centuries.

There were many different types of rites that were involved during worship, there was:

1. Circumambulation - Circling around a ritual space. Which is supposed to create a certain mood and energy within the space. The Circle represents sacred barriers and protective spirits. That's why it's so highly used in magical rites.

2. Purification - Wheras the Circle represents protection from negative forces the scented water represents cleansing. A Ritual Basin is used with sweet herbal and fruit scents like orange blossom, rose, jasmine, and/or lavender. It should be "natural", nothing artificial. Dip your hands in the water and sprinkle the closed in area with it, like the altar, the ground, and the statue.

There's more, like Lighting, Offering, and Prayer but I gotta cut it short for now, I'll be back at this later :)

[David19]

""""BTW, if you don't mind, do you have a personal God, and if you do, who is it (if it's not to private, feel free to tell me to but out of that one""""

""""It does, although I've got another question, if you don't mind. Do you know of what style prayers should be in, it's just many other religions have styles and standards that prayers should be in (e.g. certain positions, certain phrases, etc), but I'm not too sure how to frame Sumerian prayers to the Gods, or to Ereshkigal.""""

I have a few of the more important deities that I feel closest to, sure. Marduk, Sarpanitu, Nebo and Nisaba are my personal patrons.

But actually, have you read about those "personal" gods (reminds me of guardian angels) that as far as I know everyone had with them? Yeah they weren't any of the main gods, more like guardian spirits that deities sent out to their worshippers. But I don't know if the people actually worshipped them specifically and daily? as in like household spirits type of thing like the Romans had, or that these spirits were just thought to be protecting and blessing people who worshipped their patron deities.

It is a bit confusing, and I don't wanna try to equate Babylonian practices with foreign ones like Roman or Greek. I'm wondering what you thought about this too since I'm pretty sure these spirits were also found in Sumerian religion. When the prayers speak of praying to "your god daily" its not clear if they mean those spirits or an actual deity. So until I find out more details about all that stuff I mainly worship the deities themselves.


This might seem foreign to you, I don't know, but I focus on Babylonian astral religion in my worship so the 7 planetary deities are the ones I concentrate on the most. There is one for each day of the week so it makes worship easy and fun . Do you know which deities align to which planets? (this includes the sun and moon and the five visible planets, but also the zodiac system itself was included!).

While I'm not a Sumerian polytheist, I hope I might at least have some useful information. Here is what I have learned and do for my rituals.

Worship should begin in the early evening when the sun sets and the moon is brightly visible in the sky (well, sometimes it isn't visible or its cloudy so whenever the sun is setting, or awhile afterwords if you simply can't at that time), as this marks a new day (unless you wanna go solar and start with the rising sun at dawn, but I kinda like that traditional lunar feeling heh :)).

Other than lunar days, monthly I just stick with a solar calendar). This type of worship was used in Roman Syria, where a late Neo Babylonian pantheon still thrived for centuries.

There were many different types of rites that were involved during worship, there was:

1. Circumambulation - Circling around a ritual space. Which is supposed to create a certain mood and energy within the space. The Circle represents sacred barriers and protective spirits. That's why it's so highly used in magical rites.

2. Purification - Wheras the Circle represents protection from negative forces the scented water represents cleansing. A Ritual Basin is used with sweet herbal and fruit scents like orange blossom, rose, jasmine, and/or lavender. It should be "natural", nothing artificial. Dip your hands in the water and sprinkle the closed in area with it, like the altar, the ground, and the statue.

There's more, like Lighting, Offering, and Prayer but I gotta cut it short for now, I'll be back at this later :)

Thanks for the info, and I'll look forward to any more later (I'd respond more fully, but I have to leave in a bit too :)).

[Babylon]

Alright so as I was saying earlier, there are many different types of rites involved in worship, and I won't include all of the organized temple rites as that might take a little too much time but in private practice it is basically a more mundane version of the elaborate rituals taking place in a sacred temple by priests and magicians. As far as magic is involved I'll touch a little upon that but mainly I want to describe private ceremony from my knowledge in the ancient texts.

Mesopotamians had a kind of henotheism where they worshiped only a few deities regularly, the ones which held some type of importance to them, and then they took part in major festivals throughout the year on the side. Even though worship may center on a few deities, the myths and gods of the land they did not pay much attention to were still always acknowledged and believed in.

part of this is from my last post but I needed to add a few more things I forgot to mention.


1. Sacred Space: A special room with a central altar table and images or symbols of a particular deity or deities. In ancient Mesopotamia symbols and metaphors have an alternate reality, in that it is believed these representations can manifest and be evoked by the certain ritual actions. This includes the image of the god and the psychological nature of each metaphor. Even as mythology is metaphorical, it also was understood as being reality to the world of the gods though we may not fully grasp their world ourselves.

Protective figurines can be place around the room as was common, and human prayer figurines which represent you always prostrating before the deity. A libation bowl, incense burner, and offering tray (or whatever you want to use for food offerings) should be close to the altar, these two items belong not to you but to the god of the altar. Some kind of Lighting items were common, especially oil lamps, though candles and other lights are fine. The oil lamp is more traditional and represents the fire deity Nusku. Even if you don't use it you should still have one. It belongs as the previous items do, to the god of the altar. A water basin is another item that should be nearby. This can be a large bowl of some kind.

2. Circumambulation: From previous post.

3. Purification - Scented water represents cleansing. A Ritual Basin is used with sweet herbal and fruit scents like orange blossom, rose, jasmine, and/or lavender. Dip your hands in the water and sprinkle the closed in area with it, like the altar, the ground, and the statue. This purifies the space and the worshiper.

The incense burner works in the same way, the lighting of incense and pleasing aroma purifies the air.

4. Offerings - At the very least a libation (ritual drink) should be poured to the god. Scented or oiled water, wine, beer, juices, etc...a variety of choices (in general it doesn't matter too much what you use). Other food items may also be offered as you wish (again, it doesn't matter much as this is just private worship, and breads, cakes, fruits, etc...are most common things). Also non-food items like flowers and little gifts can be offered. Offerings are gifts you give to the god in reverence and in return for your supplication and prayer, which is #5 on the list.

5. Prayer - There is no Invocation rites. What I mean is, The presence of the god is already there in its image (or symbol) and its altar, so you don't need to call upon the god to come. Furthermore, the image of your god is the dwelling place and presence of your personal guardian spirit also, which alternatively can represent both the image and the servant of that god.

The guardian spirit spiritually praises and supplicates your god just as you do during ritual. In that way both you and they don't always have to be in each others' presence, but have a mediator between you and the god. So if your wondering just how the heck this prayer is gonna reach an important god well you got a little messenger that can carry your message for you :)

As I've said before it seems that is what the spirit is there for, not specifically for you to worship and placate it but for it to aid in worship and protection. Its presence also makes a lot of sense when practicing magic, as it is probably the primary agent in manifesting your desires.

Prayer involves three main themes. Prostration, Exaltation, and Supplication. Usually the former is used at the beginning and ends with the latter.

Prostration is the way you come before the god, including the way your hands are positioned. A worshipper can either stand or kneel on the ground while praying with hands raised or clasped together, I've seen both used. All these are signs of respect.

Exaltation is the way you honor the god by praising its greatness. There are many examples of these so I won't go into too much here.

Supplication is the last part, and is your entreaty to the god. After your exalting praises you end with asking the god for its many blessings, such as granting prosperity, safety, and well being.

and so, that pretty much concludes the worship. :)

[ninurta2008]

I am a babylonian pagan, other than my belief in reincarnation you can call me a recon. Unless there is some ancient path there that believed in it, I am a step less of a recon.

They used divination techniques using astrology, that is who the greeks learned it from