Should I join a church?

[Jade Moon]

Well, I'm not actually a new pagan - I've been a solitary for years - but this seemed like a good place to ask this question.

I'm probably opening pandora's box here..........

Lately, I've found that I really miss going to church. I live in a small southern town and there are no covens or even UU churches here - so I'm left to choose between a Catholic church, Pagan bashing Baptist churces, Pentacostal churches and some other fundamental Christian churches that I'd be afraid to venture into.

I'm thinking of attending the Catholic church, as it seems to be the most.....liberal? Also the ritual aspects of Catholicism appeal to me. I just feel like an incredible hypocrit by even walking in the door. I'd feel like I had this deep dark secret that I couldn't share with anyone.

I miss the social aspects of church, and the feeling of belonging. In our small town, most friendships are forged in church. We don't have many other social events where you can meet like minded people. I also regret not giving that to my children.

So, should I be a hypocrit, or scrap this whole idea and remain solitary? Should I maybe be up front with the priest and tell him my hesitations and hope he's open minded? Do you think the Catholic church is the best option? Can a divorced 30 something ex-Baptist even join a Catholic church, lol???

I think I just need to move to the city, lol!!

[Juniper138]

Are there Unitarians or Unitarian Universalists in your area? You might want to check them out. How about setting up your own group? Maybe a womens spirituality group, open to ladies of any religion or something?

[thought_on_a_wind]

Well, I'm not actually a new pagan - I've been a solitary for years - but this seemed like a good place to ask this question.

I'm probably opening pandora's box here..........

Lately, I've found that I really miss going to church. I live in a small southern town and there are no covens or even UU churches here - so I'm left to choose between a Catholic church, Pagan bashing Baptist churces, Pentacostal churches and some other fundamental Christian churches that I'd be afraid to venture into.

I'm thinking of attending the Catholic church, as it seems to be the most.....liberal? Also the ritual aspects of Catholicism appeal to me. I just feel like an incredible hypocrit by even walking in the door. I'd feel like I had this deep dark secret that I couldn't share with anyone.

I miss the social aspects of church, and the feeling of belonging. In our small town, most friendships are forged in church. We don't have many other social events where you can meet like minded people. I also regret not giving that to my children.

So, should I be a hypocrit, or scrap this whole idea and remain solitary? Should I maybe be up front with the priest and tell him my hesitations and hope he's open minded? Do you think the Catholic church is the best option? Can a divorced 30 something ex-Baptist even join a Catholic church, lol???

I think I just need to move to the city, lol!!

Be you, if that includes doing hail mary's and repeating verbatim what the priest says, then so be it... although, if you're just basing this off of the need for social acceptance, I'd highly encourage you ta stick tough an' start lookin' a lil' deeper, you might just find somethin' else between the lines...

Most places I've been weren't on the acceptance side as far as pagan's are concerned, I've had the phrase "Do you worship the devil since you don't believe in God?" uttered to me more times than I'd like to recount, and have seen a very narrow side of humanity... but then again, I'm not too big
on the typifying everything as black or white thing either... that I couldn't find myself to ever take up that following again... however, that is me, and I am most certainly not you, though I do live in a small fundamentalist area in a larger fundamentalist region...

If people there do not want to accept someone unless they are affiliated with a religion, then maybe it would suit you best if you did move. Elitists aren't nice company regardless the religious affiliation.

Either way, don't forget you do have an online group of people that have no problem accepting you (for the most part... can't speak for everyone) [that's what has helped me out since I joined]

[TheWomanMonster]

There would be no harm in attending a few social functions and services to see if it is what you're really looking for. Although you may want to 'stay in the broom closet' so to speak.

[Against The Tide]

Hmmm.... Churches are great for making social connections, and of all the friends a person can make 'friends-of-faith' can be some of the best around. Some churches are accepting of those of undecided or other faiths, you know - keep things sweet and hope you might cross over to the RIGHT religion, that kind of thing...

Roman Catholics can be agressive in their 'pitch', but there is much more a sense of community with them. When you are in RC EVERY RC church in the world is your family, whereas, if you belong to another Christian sect I think its a different experience.

Go to church when its quieter and speak to a priest, say you wish to start attending but feel like you will look like an idiot for ignorance of ceramony. He'll go over the hail marys and what to do at mass etc. I still attend RC funerals and weddings, to show respect to those I am there with I go through the motions, even sing some psalms but generaly don't speak out the rest of things.

[Tullip Troll]

I sooooo understand the need for community, but pretending to be christian to find comunity is a lie to you and the christians. You would be building friendships with people based on them thinking you were christian or hoping to convert you.

Look to other things, join something that would group you with other people. Look for a hobby or club. Start putting feelers out for other pagans in your area. be the first pagan to start offering a gathering.

[-Sky-]

I don't post very often in MW anymore but i saw your post and i felt like sharing my opinion with you. To be honest, i vaguely miss going to the church sometimes too. I don't miss so much the social interaction and feeling of belonging, mostly i miss the spiritual atmosphere,the candle-lighting, the sense of a temple.

First of all,you should be honest with yourself primarily and then with others. What are your motives of going to the church again?Is it a true spiritual sentiment?Or is it just your loneliness?The fact that there are not any other pagans in your area doesn't mean that you have to go to church. I am solitary as well and i have not found a coven here in Greece or a lot of people to share my beliefs with. But it doesn't mean i will go to church in order to interact with other people.

Forming a women's spirituality group like Juniper suggested would be a wonderful idea. I am sure that if you come forth and share your thoughts a few other women will join you because spirituality runs in our bloods.We are attracted to the mysteries of the Goddess.


Ok now coming to your question. I think that it would be ok if you attended the Catholic Church. Of course Christians in general do not accept people who are pagan or practice magic. But you don't need to tell everyone your personal beliefs. Even though i am pagan i love catholic churches too and in my travels i visited some. Like you said the ritual that they include with the church organ, the hymns, the water, the candles appeal to the nature of a pagan. Going to church might give you a sense of peace. This doesn't mean that you will leave behind your pagan beliefs nor that you will start being a christian.

To my eyes spirituality is universal and flexible. I don't agree on many things with Christians but this doesn't mean that i can't take part in their spirituality or share it. Keep in mind that everyone Christians/Muslims/Pagans/Hindu etc have as a goal to come closer to the Divine and come in contact with their soul. If you acknowledge that you will understand that there are many paths to the Light and sometimes they interwine. So take advantage of any chance to come closer to the Divine,whatever its name,it will be good for you.:) Besides you might find many similarities between Mary,the Holy Mother and the Goddess herself. Be open-minded.

[Autumn]

I understand the desire for community and all but I'm not sure I'd call the catholic church a liberal place. Up here the Catholic Church has it's roots in Quebec and France by extension and I imagine that will be very similar to what you find in Louisiana. They are only welcoming on the surface. as you sink in the pressure to conform will be intense and possibly corrosive to your daughter. Think about the churches teachings around sexuality and ask yourself if that's what you would want your child to hear. It may be more liberal than the other offerings but it's only welcoming because it sees you as a source of $$ and a convert.

I know you're a long way out but could you maybe go on an occasional basis to a UU church in a bigger town?

Am I correct in my memory that you and your Dh own a business in the community? That would make pulling up stakes and moving difficult It's what keeps me in the deadfall I live in. Another way to meet people might be to volunteer as a Girl Scout leader or some such, you'll meet folks and gather a community that way.

[Artiste-LiLi]

Do you knit or crochet? Do you have some other art or craft hobby? If so, I agree with starting a "women's social circle" based on one of those. To make it feel more spiritual, you can do a solitary ritual and prayer/meditation prior to the other ladies arrival or prior to going to you meeting space. Any lady of any faith could attend, but the actual "circle" would not be about religion...it would be about what you are doing and connecting socially. I would not bring religion into it.

If it is the ritual aspects you are missing, I might attend the "high services" Easter, Christmas, et al rather than going to church full time. I don't think attending a service here and there would cause problems...just be prepared for the "pressure to convert", because it will be there.

[aluokaloo]

well it's really up to you though if it's just community your seeking out, are there other social groups like soccer teams,girl scouts or such around you? I wish you luck in whatever decision you make and you got us too just ta let ya know! :) and if you decide to go to church, I would personally suggest doing a little recon and seeing what their opinions are as far as other religions go how they feel about alternative lifestyles and spiritually before deciding to say anything about your own path.

[skilly-nilly]

I'm thinking of attending the Catholic church, as it seems to be the most.....liberal? Also the ritual aspects of Catholicism appeal to me. I just feel like an incredible hypocrit by even walking in the door. I'd feel like I had this deep dark secret that I couldn't share with anyone.

I miss the social aspects of church, and the feeling of belonging. In our small town, most friendships are forged in church. We don't have many other social events where you can meet like minded people. I also regret not giving that to my children.

So, should I be a hypocrit, or scrap this whole idea and remain solitary? Should I maybe be up front with the priest and tell him my hesitations and hope he's open minded? Do you think the Catholic church is the best option? Can a divorced 30 something ex-Baptist even join a Catholic church, lol???

I think I just need to move to the city, lol!!

I don't think it's an all-or-nothing choice.

On the one hand, many good Catholics disagree with some of the teachings of the church and stay Catholics anyway--they just quietly disagree. I call that the 'Katherine of Aragon' heresy ("In the end, I must follow my own conscience.") and it's prevalent. I think you should talk to the priest before-hand and explain that you are 'seeking' and would like to come to Mass but I don't think you have to tell the parish priest every thing you believe, nor do you have to find a priest who will accommodate your personal beliefs in order to participate in the mystery. And the mystery is unquestionably there.

On the other hand, the mystery is also everywhere. As a solitary, the downside is lack of community, but as a participant in a Catholic parish the downside will be intrusive community. The priest will want to convert you (and you'll have to keep telling him you're 'not ready'), the Rosary society will want you to join, the women's group will want you to bake or sew or arrange flowers or baby-sit, the youth group will want your daughter to join.....

So, otgh, you have to decide what you really want and need. I agree that the Catholic Church is very attractive and probably the best way is to try it out in a tentative way and see how you feel. If participation fills the need then good, but if it creates more problems then slowly back away.

[Willow Rosette]

Why not try getting a MW meet up in your state? You never know, you might find some MWers closer to you than you thought.

[Shanti]

Is it the church you miss or the social atmosphere?
Is it the sharing of prayer or the company of others?

[Teresa]

Ya know, especially in Lousiana that there are many people in the Catholic Church that "perform workings" on the behalf of others. They would not necessarily call themselves withces, but perhaps "Spiritual Practioners". They are within the Catholic Churches within the Southern States. There are forms of religions like Santeria where the Saints have been synched with the Pagan Deities.

There is a saying in Louisiana ," Catholics make the best Voodoos and Hoodoos you will ever meet." I do not think it would hurt for you to attend some services, but I am not sure about joining a parish or church. It would be nice if you just happen to meet a "Spiritual Worker" though from attending the services. Most of those types are of super secret societies, which maybe after time they would be willing to introduce you. Just a thought..

I am good friends with a Catholic Priest and I have attended a service here and there occasionally through the years. Let's say that my friend and I have had some interesting conversations through the years too over coffee and tea at our favorite gathering spot. {Carribou Coffee House }

[Lunacie]

Are you sure there are no groups in your area? Have you looked at the listings for WitchVox? What about Yahoo Pagan Groups?

I found my current group through WitchVox and have others join from that listing since then, and there is an active online Yahoo Pagan group in this area - they meet a couple of times a month at a coffee shop and a pizza place.

http://www.witchvox.com/vn/hm/usla.html has several group listings for Louisana, and many personal listings for folks that might want to join you in forming a new group.

http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=Louisiana+Pagans&fr=yfp-t-203&toggle=1&cop=mss&ei=UTF-8 Yahoo has quite a few listings too.

http://www.geocities.com/lapagandirectory/ Geocities listings for Louisiana

You could just start with online chat, and then move forward into meeting at a coffee shop, before deciding if you want to make anything more formal as far as a group.

[LostSheep]

Catholicism has always fascinated me; on the one hand it's the most strongly top-down of churches, with God's infallible representative on earth presiding over it, but with all the rituals, iconography and virtually (though they probably wouldn't see it as such) worship of Mary, it has distinct overtones of what we call paganism. I used to go to a Catholic school, back in the day, and, because it wasn't "hardline", it seems quite interesting in retrospect. I think I'd like to go along to one some time, just to experience it again; I really don't think you need to convert or actually become a Catholic just to attend a service to kind of sit at the back and watch what goes on.

[BlackLili]

I was raised in the RC Church and I totally understand the attraction to it. The "smells and bells" were my favorite parts of the faith, actually.

I still go to Mass sometimes when I'm feeling spiritually bereft. Especially when they're said the old style, in Latin. I have one of my Dad's St Joseph's missals that has the Latin mass written on one side, and the English translation on the other side.

For me, going to Mass isn't so much about the faith though. Yes, I can go and do the "Catholic-stenics" with the rest of the congregation (stand up, sit down, kneel - stand up, sit down, kneel - repeat until winded or Communion, whichever comes first.)

What I really go there for is the feeling of connectedness I get to my own heritage though. My family history is largely Catholic with a smattering of Reform Judiasm, and they came from all over the globe. It would cost me many thousands of dollars to travel to all the places they came from, and see things that they may have seen. Alternately, I can go to church and sit through a mass, especially the old kind, and feel like I'm experiencing something that they all experienced at some point in their lives.

I don't think I could name for you any member of my family who could be called a "good" Catholic (except my kid brother maybe,) and most times, they disagreed with Mother Church on many of their issues in their personal lives. They chose often to go with their own consciences instead of blindly obeying the mandates of the Church - something I can certainly identify with.

It's not often that I feel compelled to go sit through some droning priest's homily and witness the lackluster performance of the congregation, (which is how I usually see Mass from my point of view,) but when I do, its nice to have something to go connect with that can be found in any major city in the country. It doesn't necessarily mean I want to start tithing to that church and helping with bake sales, but its convenient to have that communal energy to draw on when desired.

Also, I tend to go to older, more ethnic churches when I go at all...you find folks who believe in the "popular spiritualism" of Catholicism more often in those places. (Popular spiritualism being a polite way of referring to all of the petitions to the Saints, necklaces, medals, candles, incense, colors, and those other elements we're familiar with as Pagans as well.)

I wouldn't let myself get too drawn into the society and politics of it all, but then, I'm a misanthrope like that.

If its society you're looking for without the faith, I'd take Artiste-Lili's advice and start a sewing circle or afternoon tea group.

Good luck!

[Philosophia]

In my opinion, I think you should do whatever makes you feel comfortable. If you feel like going to a church may help you, then do so. You don't need to tell anybody about your current path if you feel you can't.

[Jade Moon]

Wow, thanks for all the great advice!! I think I am going to take bits and pieces of all of your advice.

I have checked witchvox and other resources, and the nearest organized religious groups are 1-2 hours away. With three kids, a full time job, and gas prices - that's just not possible for me right now.

If I get up the nerve, I think I'm going to attend some Catholic masses. I crave the spirituality and open community ritual that being a solitary just can't give. The Catholic mass seems the closest to a pagan ritual of the other churches and they generally don't have the hour long sermons against homosexuality, alcohol and dancing, lol. Hopefully I can attend an occasional mass without "selling my soul" to the pope.

I'm also thinking about starting a women's group - maybe a book club? I do have some pagan friends, but none have ever been interested in starting a coven. Maybe they would go for a simple girl's night out once in a while. Any of you guys wanna join us????

[Jade Moon]

Oh, and I don't mean to discredit MW! You guys are really the only "spiritual family" that I have and I value that immensely! I just feel the need for some non-virtual spiritual immersion!

Thanks again for being there for me!!

[Lunacie]

I was amazed when someone who lives an hour away from me asked if she could join our group, even knowing that I drive nearly an hour further to get to our Grove. That means she has a nearly 2 -hour drive when we meet at the Grove for rituals instead of at my house for class. Don't know how she can afford the gas, her husband left her a month ago and she is filing for divorce, she has two children and couldn't afford a babysitter I'm sure, so it's a good thing her mom can babysit. We meet every other weekend for class or ritual so that's quite a bit of travel time for all of us. None of us lives closer than 30 miles.

Girls night out sounds great, and I hope you find a Catholic Church that will accept you without you having to accept their beliefs.

[Against The Tide]

Don't apologise for needing spiritual support from REAL people, there is only so much you can experience through the net. RCs are a blast!

[PrincessKLS]

Well, I'm not actually a new pagan - I've been a solitary for years - but this seemed like a good place to ask this question.

I'm probably opening pandora's box here..........

Lately, I've found that I really miss going to church. I live in a small southern town and there are no covens or even UU churches here - so I'm left to choose between a Catholic church, Pagan bashing Baptist churces, Pentacostal churches and some other fundamental Christian churches that I'd be afraid to venture into.

I'm thinking of attending the Catholic church, as it seems to be the most.....liberal? Also the ritual aspects of Catholicism appeal to me. I just feel like an incredible hypocrit by even walking in the door. I'd feel like I had this deep dark secret that I couldn't share with anyone.

I miss the social aspects of church, and the feeling of belonging. In our small town, most friendships are forged in church. We don't have many other social events where you can meet like minded people. I also regret not giving that to my children.

So, should I be a hypocrit, or scrap this whole idea and remain solitary? Should I maybe be up front with the priest and tell him my hesitations and hope he's open minded? Do you think the Catholic church is the best option? Can a divorced 30 something ex-Baptist even join a Catholic church, lol???

I think I just need to move to the city, lol!!


With those choices, I'd choose the Catholic church. I too live in a small southern town with few choices. However when I do go to church, I just go to my childhood church and that's on a few special occasions.

[Mesektet]

Honestly, from this southern boy's perspective, you should go where you feel comfortable. My companion is what could be described as a Hindu-leaning pantheistic willworker. But she was raised in a Catholic setting(her New Orleans upbringing) and though she holds no fealty to the sacraments or what not, she still finds peace in visiting an RC church every now and then, and still buys Saint candles and engages in a number of rituals she finds comforting.
In the end, what works will work. You are doing this for you, so everything be damned when it comes to the most intimate of concepts and abstracts in this reality.

[Gwyna Star]

I have been going through something similar as well. :sniffsnif

While I do love being a Solitary, sometimes it can get lonely. I was taking Wicca classes for a few years, and then joined a Circle group. Unfortunately, they broke up and the lady who taught the classes has moved on to other things.

Now I'm on my own again. I have sent emails to local Covens through Witchvox, but I usually don't get a reply or they say they are not taking new people. And I don't bother with the other ones because they are so far away.

I've been thinking of doing a kind of attract a Wiccan friend(s) spell... I've even considered posting something on Craigslist, but I'm afraid some weirdos or bible thumpers will answer the ad. :smileroll

Anyway, I have also considered going back to church. I was raised Catholic so that's where I'm comfortable. I have no intentions of telling people what I really am, but maybe I need to attend mass every now and again just to get that community/group spirituality feeling.

I firmly believe that there is a higher being/creator, and that no spiritual path is the One True way. So when I attend other churches or spiritual services, I don't take offense. I try to respect people and their beliefs.

I say go for it, and try out a few churches. Some are not pushy and are just glad to see a new face. :)

[Jeremy Westenn]

I think you'd be misrepresenting yourself if you went to a church and participated in activites when you don't believe what they preach. /shrug.

[blackroseivy]

Only if it is Unitarian Universalist, where they welcome EVERY STRIPE of practice - it is interfaith, & thus not really exactly even a "church" as such - you can easily be a Pagan, & be a member of CUUPS (the Pagan association within the organization). Maybe this is possibly what you are really looking for...?

[solinviticus]

Honestly if your curious about the Catholic Church try to inquire about RCIA classes. It's essentially a program for learning about what the Catholic Church believes and why. You're not under obligation to join the church and you can drop out whenever you want.

I actually know of someone that's both Mormon and Catholic and in full communion with both churches (and his priest is perfectly fine with it).
You might be surprised by the beliefs and practices in Christian/Catholic mysticism. I for one have perfectly reconciled some of my beliefs with Catholicism.

[Jeremy Westenn]

I read something that you said, about the catholic church being the liberal sect, I'd actually go the methodist route personally if I HAD to. But again, I don't suggest participating in practices you don't believe in. It's offensive.

[Nitefalle]

I was raised Catholic, was even confirmed....and sometimes, I miss the church. Literally, I miss churches. I found the scriptures boring and long winded and they just never spoke to me, but a physical church I have always enjoyed. They are hushed and dim, steeped in years of spiritual practice and energy. Lighting candles silently, the tabernacle shrine area, the large decorated altar at the front of the church, the incense, the stained glass...I really miss the temple atmosphere and the music! I ALWAYS enjoyed the music at church and try and incorporate that into rituals now, though with not quite as much success.

Last year, I attended the first Eucharist ceremony of my boyfriend's nephew and found myself falling so easily back into old habits, reciting all the responses to scripture, the Hallelujahs, performing the sign of the cross...it was so weird, I didn't even have to think about it. :lol: I found it quite amusing, especially since his family doesn't know I'm Pagan.

If I ever did go back to Christianity (you never know, after all), I would definitely go back to Catholicism, with an emphasis on Celtic Christianity.