GAME - Describe this person.

[plumedsnake]

I've got an idea for a game. Below is the birth information for a very famous personality. Let's all try to make a description of the person based on the info and then when we're done I'll reveal who it is and the person who comes closest to getting it right wins a very special surprise!

I can't actually get the wheel onto the post but you can get that done on astrodienst. The birth date is June 1st, 1926 at 9.30am in California. Gemini sun, with a Leo ascendant.



Positions of Planets
Sun 10°27' Gemini
Moon 19°06' Aquarius
Mercury 6°47' Gemini
Venus 28°45' Aries
Mars 20°44' Pisces
Jupiter 26°50' Aquarius
Saturn 21°26' Scorpio
Uranus 29°00' Pisces
Neptune 22°13' Leo
Pluto 13°23' Cancer
Chiron 0°00' Taurus
Ceres 25°14' Leo
Pallas 0°07' Leo
Juno 8°30' Pisces
Vesta 19°57' Cancer
Node 18°16' Cancer
Lilith 29°04' Leo
Fortune 21°42' Aries
AS 13°03' Leo
MC 6°00' Taurus
Planets in Houses
Sun House 11
Moon House 7
Mercury House 10
Venus House 9
Mars House 8
Jupiter House 7
Saturn House 4
Uranus House 8
Neptune House 1
Pluto House 12
Chiron House 9
Ceres House 1
Pallas House 12
Juno House 8
Vesta House 12
Node House 12
Lilith House 1
Fortune House 9
Positions of Houses
House 1 13°03' Leo
House 2 6°08' Virgo
House 3 3°40' Libra
House 4 6°00' Scorpio
House 5 10°35' Sagitarius
House 6 13°29' Capricorn
House 7 13°03' Aquarius
House 8 6°08' Pisces
House 9 3°40' Aries
House 10 6°00' Taurus
House 11 10°35' Gemini
House 12 13°29' Cancer
List of Aspects
Sun Conjunction Mercury Orb +3°39'
Venus Conjunction MC Orb +7°15'
Moon Conjunction Jupiter Orb +7°43'
Mars Conjunction Uranus Orb +8°15'
Neptune Conjunction AS Orb +9°10'
Moon Opposite Neptune Orb -3°07'
Jupiter Opposite Neptune Orb -4°36'
Moon Opposite AS Orb -6°02'
Saturn Square Neptune Orb -0°46'
Moon Square Saturn Orb -2°20'
Jupiter Square Saturn Orb +5°23'
Mars Trine Saturn Orb -0°42'
Venus Trine Neptune Orb -6°31'
Mars Trine Pluto Orb -7°20'
Saturn Trine Uranus Orb +7°33'
Saturn Trine Pluto Orb +8°03'
Sun Trine Moon Orb -8°39'
Venus Sextile Jupiter Orb +1°55'
Sun Sextile AS Orb +2°36'
Mars Inconjunction Neptune Orb +1°29'
Mars SemiSquare MC Orb +0°16'
Uranus SesquiQuadrate AS Orb -0°56'
Jupiter SesquiQuadrate Pluto Orb +1°33'
Sun Quintile Neptune Orb -0°13'
Sun Quintile Uranus Orb -0°33'
Moon BiQuintile Pluto Orb +0°17'
Uranus BiQuintile Neptune Orb -0°46'
Venus SemiSextile Uranus Orb -0°14'
Pluto SemiSextile AS Orb -0°20'
Mercury SemiSextile MC Orb +0°46'
Moon SemiSextile Mars Orb +1°37'

[Nightlady]

Damn... I know who it is, so I really cannot participate... I find the heavily aspected saturn in scorpio house four to be really interesting in this chart... suggesting a troubled and dramatic family life... Also the sun mercury conjunct in gemini house ten is very interresting... revealing a person whose social life thrives on conversation, most likely intellectual discussion... The afflicted moon is also of interest...

[plumedsnake]

Damn... I know who it is, so I really cannot participate... I find the heavily aspected saturn in scorpio house four to be really interesting in this chart... suggesting a troubled and dramatic family life... Also the sun mercury conjunct in gemini house ten is very interresting... revealing a person whose social life thrives on conversation, most likely intellectual discussion... The afflicted moon is also of interest...

I agree with the influence of Saturn in scorpio in the 4th house.

Sun and mercury in gemini also suggests loads of conversation to me but what I see is someone who finds it's easy to make connections with other people and network, but I don't see the conversations as being particularly deep or intellectual. The interest in deeper intellectual subjects would be conferred by the Moon and Jupiter in Aquarius, I think. This suggests to me someone who is surrounded by intellectual heavy weights. I take the moon to suggest surroundings. Also, these aspects of her chart, being found in the 7th house would also imply partnership with these intellectual heavy weights, maybe even marriage to them.

However sun and mercury in gemini implies someone finds wordplay quite easy. Not in a heavy intellectual sense but rather is quick witted in conversation and good at double entendres and playing with the phonetic aspects of words.

I think that the Leo ascendant also implies the endowment with Charisma and the need to be center of attention.

[Willow Rosette]

I agree with the influence of Saturn in scorpio in the 4th house.

Sun and mercury in gemini also suggests loads of conversation to me but what I see is someone who finds it's easy to make connections with other people and network, but I don't see the conversations as being particularly deep or intellectual. The interest in deeper intellectual subjects would be conferred by the Moon and Jupiter in Aquarius, I think. This suggests to me someone who is surrounded by intellectual heavy weights. I take the moon to suggest surroundings. Also, these aspects of her chart, being found in the 7th house would also imply partnership with these intellectual heavy weights, maybe even marriage to them.

However sun and mercury in gemini implies someone finds wordplay quite easy. Not in a heavy intellectual sense but rather is quick witted in conversation and good at double entendres and playing with the phonetic aspects of words.

I think that the Leo ascendant also implies the endowment with Charisma and the need to be center of attention.

I know nothing of astrology and only came to read the thread out of curriousity but that sounds like Oprah to me LOL

[RedRose]

Fun game,

I have been so busy and am still so busy; going to university! Sun in Gemini, Moon in Aquarius with Leo Rising! This person is a torch!

Here is what they say at www.astrology-numerology.com about:

Leo Rising:

Leo rising produces a personality that is generous, warmhearted, and forceful. Leo is the royal sign, and having this sign for your Ascendant gives you a regal bearing and a sense of control over most situations. You are a very open and active person, showing a very happy face when things are going well. Integrity, courage, and dignity are your chief virtues, and your "sunny," extroverted disposition helps you gain the popular following you need.

Being fond of power and command, you sometimes attempt to dominate situations when it may not be called for. Even if you're not the one in charge, you carry yourself so proudly and almost reek dignity and self-assurance. You're so self-confident that you may be even a little careless at times.

Though you are quick tempered, you get over your upsets as quickly. Your personality is so engaging when everything is going well, but you are less well equipped to handle adversity. You haughtily ignore persons causing conflict in your life.

There is a tendency for you to overdo, at times becoming too extravagant and too daring. You are stubborn, but not in an unpleasant or disagreeable way. You may find it extremely difficult to break undesirable habits and behavior patterns.

You are romantic and sentimental, but sometimes a little foolhardy. You appreciate what people do for you, and you are a devoted friend who will remember and repay a kindness. You have royal tastes and a sense of luxury, prompting you to spend much to keep up appearances. Your personality is on the dramatic side, steeped in pomp and ceremony, and you may look for opportunities to release a flamboyant side of your nature.

Gemini Sun/Aquarius Moon

The combination of your Sun sign and your Moon sign produces the quick mind and broad scope of intelligence that may enable you to achieve public notoriety. Your mind can grasp details without missing the big picture. You seem to have the gift of foresight and insight, seeing both the fact and the potentialities. Your uncanny foresight or intuition allows you to be one of those people with the ability always to be looking ahead and anticipating the need for change and improvement. You are a true progressive. You can organize and express what you know in a clear and concise fashion. You are genuinely humanitarian, generous, and possess a desire to help others, so you can make an excellent teacher in whatever walk of life you choose. You seem to have a romantic outlook on life that can find, rather than create, beauty in your surroundings. Philosophical to an extreme, you are very understanding, tolerating, and accepting of others in a broad sense. So your circle of friends is probably extremely large and loyal. You are depressed by any sense of restriction or restraint the keeps you from doing your thing. Routine activities or affairs that confine you too much are impossible to tolerate. Your mind is agile and flexible, you seem able skillfully to handle either side of an argument with equal ease, and you often do. Enigmatic and interesting, you are always an entertaining person to be around.

[plumedsnake]

I think that the opposition between Leo ascendant and moon in aquarius plays a big part in the personality.

Though being an icon and probably amongst the 5 most famous americans ever, this person seemed to have had their feet on the ground. One would expect with a leo rising that they would be so full of self belief and self centered, but this person had a strong 2nd perspective and could see themselves as a nobody with minimal talent trying to make the best of what they've got.

Public adulation did not go to the head. The subject was quoted as saying: If people that don't know you can claim to love you so much then, well, they could just as easily hate you without knowing you. That's scary. . Or words to that effect.

I also think that Mars in pisces in the 8th house of death might be significant.

[RedRose]

Hi Plumedsnake,

I sure wish I could see the scope. I simply can't see it from a linear list; doesn't compute for me. Can you post the chart so I can see what is going on?

Having an Aquarius Moon, in and of itself, makes a person very philosophical, often suspicious and avoidant, of glamour and celebrity. Having Moon on the decendant tends to make a person "sensitive" to the opinions and expectations of others - even over-sensitive. Moon opposite Ascendants can be servaholics.

From Cafe Astrology:

http://www.cafeastrology.com/natal/moonascendantaspects.html

Moon opposition the Ascendant
When the Moon is opposite the Ascendant (and therefore conjunct the Descendant)...

Your Moon is in opposition to your Ascendant, which can indicate that you have conflicts between what you need for yourself and what others demand or need from you. You may also place too much emphasis on living your life based upon taking care of others, and may feel emotionally drained as a result. Part of the undercurrent of this energy comes from wanting to be connected or needing a partner. This is perfectly okay as long as you create relationships in which your needs and desires count, too. But watch for a tendency for things to get one-sided, and remember to give yourself ample opportunities to fulfill your own needs.

Alternate, short interpretation: Your love of groups and the social scene may find you less concerned about you as a person and more interested in relationships of all kinds. Others find you very unselfish and open to sharing and cooperation.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Mars in Pisces in the 8th House makes me think of someone deeply into the occult, an astrologer or mystic perhaps and/or someone involved in death; like a hospice worker. Yang energy is certainly fairly actively Yin or extra psychic in this person.

Here is a standard interpret for Mars in the 8th and Mars in Pisces from Astrology Weekly:
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/learn-astrology/mars-in-pisces.php

With Mars in the Eighth House you are likely to exert your energy and initiative into the quest for personal success, self-knowledge and emotional security. Your energy is channelled through powerful, deep-seated but easily aroused emotions and a powerful sex-drive. There is a desire for leadership within your social and business sphere - involvement with metaphysical or occult groups is a possibility. Your deep interest in finance, big business and a keen, positive attitude to investment ensures success. You possess an intuitive sense that is well tuned when it comes to assessing prospective partners and financial opportunities.


Mars in Pisces indicated that you will assert yourself in an emotional, sensitive, unassuming, co-operative, cultured, humorous, refined and caring manner. Energy levels can fluctuate day to day, much depends on your emotional state of mind. The incentive to action is governed not so much through logical assessment or practical necessity, but by intuition, 'how you feel' about a situation. Much of your personal energy is channelled into the subconscious mind, you are, therefore, naturally introspective and withdrawn. However, your refined and sensitive nature is well-suited to artistic, creative and imaginative endeavour - such as religious and spiritual work, music, romantic literature or humanitarian projects. Frequent periods of quite and solitude are necessary in order to recharge your energies. On occasion you can be devious, evasive, gloomy, indolent, changeable, irresolute and indecisive. Sex is synonymous with love and idealised romance. Your sensitive and self-conscious nature demands secrecy and privacy for sensual activity. Lovemaking is passionate, imaginative and emotionally elevating.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

RedRose

[plumedsnake]

Hi Plumedsnake,


Having an Aquarius Moon, in and of itself, makes a person very philosophical, often suspicious and avoidant, of glamour and celebrity. Having Moon on the decendant tends to make a person "sensitive" to the opinions and expectations of others - even over-sensitive. Moon opposite Ascendants can be servaholics.

When the Moon is opposite the Ascendant (and therefore conjunct the Descendant)...

Your Moon is in opposition to your Ascendant, which can indicate that you have conflicts between what you need for yourself and what others demand or need from you. You may also place too much emphasis on living your life based upon taking care of others, and may feel emotionally drained as a result. Part of the undercurrent of this energy comes from wanting to be connected or needing a partner. This is perfectly okay as long as you create relationships in which your needs and desires count, too. But watch for a tendency for things to get one-sided, and remember to give yourself ample opportunities to fulfill your own needs.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

RedRose

Interesting! Here are a few quotes from the subject.

1)The truth is I've never fooled anyone. I've let people fool themselves. They didn't bother to find out who and what I was. Instead they would invent a character for me. I wouldn't argue with them. They were obviously loving somebody I wasn't. When they found this out, they would blame me for disillusioning them---and fooling them.

2)There was my name up in lights. I said 'God, somebody's made a mistake!' But there it was in lights. And I sat there and said, 'Remember, you're not a star.' Yet there it was up in lights.

Also considering the tension between a Leo ascendant that wants fame and a moon in Aquarius in the 7th house of partnerships and marriage, here is more quotes from our subject:

3)"I didn't want to give up my career, and that's what XXX wanted me to do most of all.

4)I want to be a big star more than anything. It's something precious.

5)A career is wonderful, but you can't curl up with it on a cold night.

6)I'm a failure as a woman . . . . Men expect so much, and I can't live up to it.

[plumedsnake]

Hi Plumedsnake,

I sure wish I could see the scope. I simply can't see it from a linear list; doesn't compute for me. Can you post the chart so I can see what is going on?

RedRose

I can't get a chart onto the thread. but with the birth time you could easily create a chart at astro.com or any of the other sites.

The birth info is 1 june, 1926 in Los Angeles, California, 9:30am

[plumedsnake]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Mars in Pisces in the 8th House makes me think of someone deeply into the occult, an astrologer or mystic perhaps and/or someone involved in death; like a hospice worker. Yang energy is certainly fairly actively Yin or extra psychic in this person.

RedRose

Mars in pisces in the 8th is a key part to how we will know and remember the subject for a long time.

[RedRose]

Hi Plumedsnake,

I hope I managed to post the mystery person's horoscope below! I came up with a (very slightly) different ASC,. He or she was probably born on the other side of Los Angeles.

Neptune in the 1st in Neptune conjunct Ceres opposite Aquarius Moon conjunct Jupiter:

Moon conjunct Jupiter in Aquarius makes this person bored with the ego concerns of humans. Rather this person gets very emotional about humanities abuse of the environment, fellow creatures, human's abuse of fellow human's and the like. Add in Neptune/Ceres in Leo and we have an extremely idealistic soul - maybe even gullibly so (and/or possibly prone to addictive or self distructive behavior)

Chiron conjunct Venus conjunct Midheaven:

Chiron conjunct Midheaven people often get famous for being wounded, or championing the wounded; or otherwise being martyrs or actually martyred. Chiron conjunct Venus means that this person's wound was around being a woman, or if it is man around his relationship(s) with women/Mom. Here is what they say about Chiron conjunct MH and Chiron conjunct Venus at:

http://www.aquarianage.org/west/planets/ch-nat02.html

Chiron - MC: Chiron placed in this position is a strong indicator that the native's career will have some kind of Chironic flavor. They can end up as teachers, healers or leaders. At the same time, they remain perpetual students (which may be one key to their frequent successes in such fields). The early career is mainly set back by feelings of low self-worth, which they overcome so they are stronger examples of the lessons they will teach.

Chiron - Venus: This native approaches sexual and sensual experiences with a childlike charm and innocence that makes them incredibly attractive. When the two planets are in harmonious contact, a client might be having sexual or creative experiences which are out of the normal realms of social tastes, but are absolutely vital to their own personal development. There can be problems with sexual or gender identity when the two planets are not in harmony, and a challenging aspect can indicate physical, emotional or sexual abuse in childhood. These people become expert at "reading" the motives of other people, and learn to use their sexuality as a shield of protection.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

NN is conjunct Vesta and Pluto at the cusp of the 11th and 12th House (NN always goes backwards through the scope so it is on the cusp of the 11th while Vesta and Pluto are going forward and thus on the cusp of the 12th House). This person is WAY powerful, and psychologically intense; a Vestal Virgin(or priest) type with lots of charisma and magnetism?


Mars in the 8th House is sexy but Juno on the cusp of the 8th squaring his/her Sun/Mercury doesn't sound too great when it comes to being married. Also Saturn in the 4th House in Scorpio often indicates a hard childhood and lots of hard work to ever feel secure, cozy and at home (especially given the Chiron/Venus conjunction with the MH).

RedRose

[plumedsnake]

I am amazed. Not just because of the accuracy of what you are saying but also because you are using bodies like Neptune Ceres Chiron etc which I've always dismissed as irrelevant. You just might convert me to using them now.



Hi Plumedsnake,

I hope I managed to post the mystery person's horoscope below! I came up with a (very slightly) different ASC,. He or she was probably born on the other side of Los Angeles.

It's still the same ascendant that I came up with. Leo.


Neptune in the 1st in Neptune conjunct Ceres opposite Aquarius Moon conjunct Jupiter:

Moon conjunct Jupiter in Aquarius makes this person bored with the ego concerns of humans. Rather this person gets very emotional about humanities abuse of the environment, fellow creatures, human's abuse of fellow human's and the like. Add in Neptune/Ceres in Leo and we have an extremely idealistic soul - maybe even gullibly so (and/or possibly prone to addictive or self distructive behavior)

Of everything you say this is the part that I think is probably least accurate. I'm not aware of any particularly environmental or humanitarian concerns. The tendency to addictive and self destructive behaviour is spot on though.


Chiron conjunct Venus conjunct Midheaven:

Chiron conjunct Midheaven people often get famous for being wounded, or championing the wounded; or otherwise being martyrs or actually martyred. Chiron conjunct Venus means that this person's wound was around being a woman, or if it is man around his relationship(s) with women/Mom. Here is what they say about Chiron conjunct MH and Chiron conjunct Venus at:

Well the subject was wounded psychologically by the mother who was mentally ill and in and out of hospital. Consequently a lot of time was spent in foster homes where life was harsh and discipline was meted out harshly too.



http://www.aquarianage.org/west/planets/ch-nat02.html

Chiron - MC: Chiron placed in this position is a strong indicator that the native's career will have some kind of Chironic flavor. They can end up as teachers, healers or leaders. At the same time, they remain perpetual students (which may be one key to their frequent successes in such fields). The early career is mainly set back by feelings of low self-worth, which they overcome so they are stronger examples of the lessons they will teach.

Not sure about this bit though there was the need to get better at their craft. In this case an almost desperate need to become better and to be taken seriously.


Chiron - Venus: This native approaches sexual and sensual experiences with a childlike charm and innocence that makes them incredibly attractive. When the two planets are in harmonious contact, a client might be having sexual or creative experiences which are out of the normal realms of social tastes, but are absolutely vital to their own personal development. There can be problems with sexual or gender identity when the two planets are not in harmony, and a challenging aspect can indicate physical, emotional or sexual abuse in childhood. These people become expert at "reading" the motives of other people, and learn to use their sexuality as a shield of protection.

This is the most accurate thing yet. My jaw dropped. Apart from the sexual or gender identity problem the above description sounds like you already know who the person is. And you are looking at her as you make the description.




NN is conjunct Vesta and Pluto at the cusp of the 11th and 12th House (NN always goes backwards through the scope so it is on the cusp of the 11th while Vesta and Pluto are going forward and thus on the cusp of the 12th House). This person is WAY powerful, and psychologically intense; a Vestal Virgin(or priest) type with lots of charisma and magnetism?


I dunno. This part seems vague.


Do I reveal who it is yet or do I wait to see if anyone has anything else to post? I'll give it another 24 hours.

[Shatril]

I guess Liz Taylor.

[RedRose]

Yeah, good guess Shatril. NN/Vesta/Pluto in Cancer, with Mars in Pisces in the 8th, sounds like a sex goddess to me too.

But add in Chiron/Venus on the midheaven makes me think "dead sex goddess", so I vote for Marilyn Monroe.

I was careful, while reading the scope, to not engage in guessing but this morning, after reading your guess, well I think it is Marilyn. I simply can't picture a modern man with this chart who is famous. Lord Bryan might fit but he is not from this era.

Great game.

RedRose

[plumedsnake]

Yeah, good guess Shatril. NN/Vesta/Pluto in Cancer, with Mars in Pisces in the 8th, sounds like a sex goddess to me too.

But add in Chiron/Venus on the midheaven makes me think "dead sex goddess", so I vote for Marilyn Monroe.

I was careful, while reading the scope, to not engage in guessing but this morning, after reading your guess, well I think it is Marilyn. I simply can't picture a modern man with this chart who is famous. Lord Bryan might fit but he is not from this era.

Great game.

RedRose

Marilyn Monroe is dead right. Mars in pisces in the 8th house suggests to me dependency on drugs leading to death. I would also blame that for her dreaminess and tendency to always turn up late which got worse closer to the end.

Here are a few quotes from her. I like the one about late time keeping: "I've been on a calendar but never on time."

Personal Quotes
I love a natural look in pictures. I like people with a feeling one way or another - it shows an inner life. I like to see that there's something going on inside them.

My problem is that I drive myself... I'm trying to become an artist, and to be true, and sometimes I feel I'm on the verge of craziness, I'm just trying to get the truest part of myself out, and it's very hard. There are times when I think, 'All I have to be is true'. But sometimes it doesn't come out so easily. I always have this secret feeling that I'm really a fake or something, a phony.

"They were terribly strict. They didn't mean any harm...it was their religion. They brought me up harshly." - on living with the Bolenders when she was a little girl

"I was surprised to be so crazy about Joe. I expected a flashy New York sports type, and instead I met this reserved guy who didn't make a pass at me right away! He treated me like something special. Joe is a very decent man, and he makes other people feel decent too." - on meeting Joe DiMaggio for the first time

"Joe hates crowds and glamour." - explaining why Joe DiMaggio didn't come on one of her USO tours

"My marriage didn't make me sad, but it didn't make me happy either. My husband and I hardly spoke to each other. This wasn't because we were angry. We had nothing to say. I was dying of boredom." - on why she divorced James Dougherty

"I didn't want to give up my career, and that's what Joe wanted me to do most of all." - on why her marriage to Joe DiMaggio couldn't work

I want to be a big star more than anything. It's something precious.

"Jean Harlow was my idol." - on her favorite actress, the first platinum blonde

"The world around me then was kind of grim. I had to learn to pretend in order to - I don't know - block the grimness. The whole world seemed sort of closed to me... [I felt] on the outside of everything, and all I could do was to dream up any kind of pretend game." - on drifting in and out of orphanages when she was little

"Grace McKee arranged the marriage for me, I never had a choice. There's not much to say about it. They couldn't support me, and they had to work out something. And so I got married." - on her early marriage to James Dougherty

I'm not interested in money, I just want to be wonderful.

A career is wonderful, but you can't curl up with it on a cold night.

Sometimes I think it would be easier to avoid old age, to die, young, but then you'd never complete your life, would you? You'd never wholly know yourself...

A dollar for your thoughts...

I've been on a calendar, but never on time.

No one ever told me I was pretty when I was a little girl. All little girls should be told they're pretty, even if they aren't.

In Hollywood a girl's virtue is much less important than her hairdo. You're judged by how you look, not by what you are. Hollywood's a place where they'll pay you a thousand dollars for kiss, and fifty cents for your soul. I know, because I turned down the first offer often enough and held out for the fifty.

Dogs never bite me. Just humans.

Sex is a part of nature. I go along with nature.

Fame will go by and, so long, I've had you, Fame. If it goes by, I've always known it was fickle.

I knew I belonged to the public and to the world, not because I was talented or even beautiful, but because I never had belonged to anything or anyone else.

People had a habit of looking at me as if I were some kind of mirror instead of a person. They didn't see me, they saw their own lewd thoughts, then they white-masked themselves by calling me the lewd one.

A sex-symbol becomes a thing, I just hate being a thing. But if I'm going to be a symbol of something I'd rather have it sex than some other things we've got symbols of.

The truth is I've never fooled anyone. I've let people fool themselves. They didn't bother to find out who and what I was. Instead they would invent a character for me. I wouldn't argue with them. They were obviously loving somebody I wasn't. When they found this out, they would blame me for disillusioning them---and fooling them.

To put it bluntly, I seem to have a whole superstructure with no foundation. But I'm working on the foundation.

If I had observed all the rules, I'd never have gotten anywhere.

I want to grow old without face-lifts... I want to have the courage to be loyal to the face that I have made.

It's often just enough to be with someone. I don't need to touch them. Not even talk. A feeling passes between you both. You're not alone.

I'm a failure as a woman. My men expect so much of me, because of the image they've made of me and that I've made of myself, as a sex symbol. Men expect so much, and I can't live up to it.

It stirs up envy, fame does. People you run into feel that, well, who does she think she is, Marilyn Monroe? They feel fame gives them some kind of privilege to walk up to you and say anything to you, you know, of any kind of nature - and it won't hurt your feelings.

Fame is fickle, and I know it. It has it's compensations but it also has it's drawbacks, and I've experienced them both.

My illusions didn't have anything to do with being a fine actress. I knew how third rate I was. I could actually feel my lack of talent, as if it were cheap clothes I was wearing inside. But my God, how I wanted to learn, to change, to improve!

If I play a stupid girl, and ask a stupid question, I've got to follow it through. What am I supposed to do, look intelligent?

On posing nude for the calendar in 1949: "My sin has been no more than I have written, posing for the nude because I desperately needed fifty dollars to get my car out of hock."

An actor is supposed to be a sensitive intrument. Isaac Stern takes good care of his violin. What if everyone jumped on his violin?

There was my name up in lights. I said 'God, somebody's made a mistake!' But there it was in lights. And I sat there and said, 'Remember, you're not a star.' Yet there it was up in lights.

Some people have been unkind. If I say I want to grow as an actress, they look at my figure. If I say I want to develop, to learn my craft, they laugh. Somehow they don't expect me to be serious about my work.

I was never used to being happy, so that wasn't something I ever took for granted. I did sort of think, you know, marriage did that. You see, I was brought up differently from the average American child because the average child is brought up expecting to be happy - that's it, successful, happy, and on time.

You know, when you grow up you can get kind of sour, I mean, that's the way it can go.

Wouldn't it be nice to be like men and get notches in your belt and sleep with most attractive men and not get emotionally involved?

I used to think as I looked at the Hollywood night, 'There must be thousands of girls sitting alone like me, dreaming of becoming a movie star. But I'm not going to worry about them. I'm dreaming the hardest.'

The trouble with censors is they worry if a girl has cleavage. They ought to worry if she hasn't any.

I used to say to myself, 'What the devil have you got to be proud about, Marilyn Monroe?' And I'd answer, 'Everything, everything.'

On stardom: "It scares me. All those people I don't know, sometimes they're so emotional. I mean, if they love you that much without knowing you, they can also hate you the same way."

Goethe said, 'Talent is developed in privacy, ' you know?And it's really true. There is a need for aloneness which I don't think most people realize for an actor. It's almost having certain kinds of secrets for yourself that you'll let the whole world in on only for a moment, when you're acting.

Please don't make me a joke. End the interview with what I believe... I want to be an artist, an actress with integrity.

I've never dropped anyone I believed in.

On John F. Kennedy: "It would be so nice to have a president who looks so young and good-looking."

I restore myself when I'm alone. A career is born in public -- talent in private.

Talent is developed in privacy... but everybody is always tugging at you. They'd all like sort of a chunk at you. They'd kind of like to take pieces out of you.

I want to be an artist... not an erotic freak. I don't want to be sold to the public as a celluloid aphrodisiacal.

Hollywood is a place where they'll pay you a thousand dollars for a kiss, and fifty cents for your soul. I know, because I turned down the first offer often enough, and held out for the fifty cents.

(About Montgomery Clift): He's the only person I know that is in worse shape than I am.

I've never liked the name Marilyn. I've often wished that I had held out that day for Jean Monroe. But I guess it's too late to do anything about it now.

If you can make a girl laugh, you can make her do anything.

A smart girl leaves before she is left.

I got these from here:http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000054/bio

[plumedsnake]

But add in Chiron/Venus on the midheaven makes me think "dead sex goddess", so I vote for Marilyn Monroe.

RedRose


How does chiron/Venus make someone dead?

[RedRose]

Hi Plumedsnake,

Chiron conjunct the Midheaven tends to make people famous (MH) for their woundedness (Chiron). It is a common placement for martyrs. It can also be someone who gets famous for championing others; or otherwise being Chironic. Chiron conjunct Venus shows a wound tied up with being female and/or women or Mom.

Please do another one; somebody who is also very famous! Knowing the birthdate is a good basic clue; it limits the scope of infinity enough to cope. This game, as well as being fun and challenging, clearly shows how well astrology works.

RedRose