Religios Biggot

[CondurerMan]

http://www.gospelcom.net/glia/worldview/volume49/wicca.shtml
this is the address of an anti-wiccan article written by a "Renee Tippit "

please view it and and write a response to her editor these was my responce: (Obcene comments were labled ******)

----- Original Message -----
From: Dor
To: stm@sammytippit.org
Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 7:01 AM
Subject: Racist and HELL PROVOKERS


first of all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This so-called reporter of yours called Renee Tippit is nothing more then a low-life religion biggot!!!!
She is a Fanatic DRIVEN to OBSCENE and REVOLTING comments about a RELIGION she has
no knowledge of!!

Second of all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Her so-called Perspactice is nothing less then an attempt to return to the old EXTREME CRISTIAN world
as i quate from her artical:

"So, there you have it. God does not like it. In fact, He hates it as only He can. There is no and, if, but, or etc. And there is absolutely no way to get around it. It is wrong. It is sin. Not to mention scary and a little creepy."

Her idea of "God" lies millions of miles away from normal perspective

"We were founded on Christian principles and foundations and yet we have flung those morals out the window and replaced them with hedonistic ideas and philosophies"

further more!

She wishes to return to the days of old does she!!!!!!!!!?

well here's and idea for you ******!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

please give this line to her!

YOU SHOULD BE PUT IN A MANTLE INSTITUTE YOU LOW LEVEL ***** !!!
YOUR IDEAS ARE MORONIC AND OFF-DATED!!!
IT WAS MERELY THE FALT OF AN ****** EMPLOYER THAT YOU HAVE THIS JOB!!!!!!!!!!!

And last but not least you are a ****** old-fashion hag !!! you are your own idea of a witch

I am a Wiccan i take pride in that fact I have seen the the True world yet i do not disturb your's.
Our wishes are to have normal live's!! with freedom of religion!! and that is the real FONDATION of the United-States!!! maybe you don't belong there!!

I call for imidiat action against this **** or i will be FORCED to take it to extreme!! measures

__________________________________________________________________
ICQ#: 83583008
Current ICQ status:

[Myst]

that was pretty flame-ish don't you think?

further comment, do you really think it's wise to go threatening people?

another further comment, what did you expect on a website at gospelcom.net ?

[CondurerMan]

I was rather annoyed by this you might say.

[Myst]

Sure, I can understand that.

I guess I've seen too many of them to really care anymore - we get to run our Pagan sites, they get to run their sites; free speech and all that :) Also, I tend to think if I flame them or respond like that I've just proven to them that Pagans *are* what they think. :-/

[Sequoia]

. . . and we wonder why these people get so pissed off about other religions. . .










I would be rather pissed and close-minded too, if I was just chewed out by a fanatic of the other religion. That was uncalled for, Condurer Man. Goodness. No wonder that woman thinks we're evil. I would too, if I got responses like that.

Try to be a bit calmer and more intelligent when you reply to things like that - otherwise you just reinforce their preconception. Honestly. What were you thinking? Angry is one thing - that was not appropriate.

[Myst]

The only thing I have to say to the author is they're Wiccans, not "Wiccas". I hate when people say that :)

[CondurerMan]

I have a tendency to flare up about these matters

yet i don't think i said anything uncalled for i said what i thought and what i thought was that she had no right to do what she did and Someones gonna read that trash she should at-least know what I think of the matter.

Freedom of speech and Religion are things that uphold eachother
yet she hasn't the right the make offencive remarks and threats about somone else .

She calls fo the Christians to claim the country for their own and abolish all other religions FGS..

I stick to my responce. and i believe it was Extremly Called for!

[AradiaSupernova]

here is how I replied to the article:

hello :)


I'm going to put this as politely as I can. I'm not angry that your reporter wrote the article that the subject of this email is titled after. I am, however, angry about the comments made in it. First off..wiccans, not wiccas.

All I can truly say is "judge lest not ye be judged"

"suffer not a witch to live", if you read the Bible in the original Hebrew form, means "suffer not a poisoner to live" In essence meaning, don't let a murderer live. Last I checked, Wiccans don't murder anyone. TRUE Wiccans anyway.

Witchcraft and Wicca are not the same thing. Many wiccans don't practice magick. Many just pray like people of the Christian faith do. So we pray to a God and Goddess...do you really have an objection to praying? Yes, some Wiccans do practice magick. Whats that, besides a glorified prayer with work to send and channel energy to people who are in need of assistance?

A "ritual knife" is called an Athame. Its used for directing energy during ritual. Its not used for anything else other than that.

Wiccans don't do ritual human sacrifices. I don't know of any religion that is true to its original philosophies that does. Even true satanists don't ritually sacrifice ppl. All religions have their fanatics. Its like the saying. That all families have atleast 1 nut-case in them. They do. So do religions. Including Wicca. Yes, some ppl get out of control. Yes, some ppl are right with the stereotype. BUT NOT EVERYBODY.

Its a question of belief, really. You believe we're evil, and most of us understand why you think that way. I know I do. I was Christian for 14 years of my life. I get why you believe the way you do, and thats your right. But don't we all have the rights to the same thing?

Please..if you must do something such as this, do your research first. Put in opinions if you must, but atleast state fact.

[Twig]

!!!!!!!!!!FLASHBACK!!!!!!!

1965, South Carolina, Greenville, the Mt. Calvery Baptist Church.

An 8(?) yr. old boy with a crewcut has just heard his grandmother give approximatly the same description of what goes on at the "Meetings of Satan". that evening when the family is doing the nightly bible reading (1 chapter each for the adults, 1/2 chapter for the kids) the tow-headed boy asks his g-mother why all those people are going to hell? The doting elderly lady replies because they "don't belive in jesus and we have to change them so they see the "right" way".

After the bible reading is completed. the family kneels at the couch to pray. when it is the boys turn to confess the deadly sins he may have commited, such as throwing rocks at the cats in the woods, he bursts into tears ands prays to God not to kill his best, only, and quite jewish best friend. He will change the other lad to jesus. You'll see!!!

After the tittering of his brothers is silenced, no answer or comfort is forthcoming from his parents or the matronly elder sunday school teacher.......

Only Amen.

Peace,
Twig

[AradiaSupernova]

Truly sad, Twig.

[Myst]

She has every right to say what she wants - it's called free speech. The only thing that doesn't fall under that really is threats such as you replied to her with.

[Twig]

!!!!!!!!!!FLASHBACK!!!!!!!

1965, South Carolina, Greenville, the Mt. Calvery Baptist Church.

An 8(?) yr. old boy with a crewcut has just heard his grandmother give approximatly the same description of what goes on at the "Meetings of Satan". that evening when the family is doing the nightly bible reading (1 chapter each for the adults, 1/2 chapter for the kids) the tow-headed boy asks his g-mother why all those people are going to hell? The doting elderly lady replies because they "don't belive in jesus and we have to change them so they see the "right" way".

After the bible reading is completed. the family kneels at the couch to pray. when it is the boys turn to confess the deadly sins he may have commited, such as throwing rocks at the cats in the woods, he bursts into tears ands prays to God not to kill his best, only, and quite jewish best friend. He will change the other lad to jesus. You'll see!!!

After the tittering of his brothers is silenced, no answer or comfort is forthcoming from his parents or the matronly elder sunday school teacher.......

Only Amen.

Peace,
Twig

[Myst]

Did you post that twice on purpose?

[Wyrdsister]

CondurerMan said
Freedom of speech and Religion are things that uphold eachother yet she hasn't the right the make offencive remarks and threats about somone else.

CondurerMan ALSO said
"I call for imidiat action against this **** or i will be FORCED to take it to extreme!! measures"
Um, correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't that a threat about someone else? Just checking... ;)

Wyrdsister


Edited for formatting

[MidnightSun]

Ok..I have just a few things to say. First off..if you are going to write a letter to a place like this website..have your wits about you. It makes us all look bad when you get all mad and send a letter like this. Second, when writing a reply letter to a website or an editor, etc, please please please use a spell checker..it makes you look very uneducated yourself when you mis-spell words.


Her so-called Perspactice is nothing less then an attempt to return to the old EXTREME CRISTIAN world
as i quate from her artical:
It's Christian.


IT WAS MERELY THE FALT OF AN ****** EMPLOYER THAT YOU HAVE THIS JOB!!!!!!!!!!!
Fault.


Our wishes are to have normal live's!! with freedom of religion!! and that is the real FONDATION of the United-States!!! maybe you don't belong there!!
Foundation.

And lastly.

I call for imidiat action against this **** or i will be FORCED to take it to extreme!! measures
Immediate.

Sorry if this seems rude but it's an important part of writing letters to people if you want to be taken seriously. I'll also echo what everyone else said. You say it's not right to threaten people and then you do it...not very smart if you ask me.

[Phoenix Blue]

Quoth CondurerMan:
I have a tendency to flare up about these matters
Uh-huh. Well, that doesn't make it right, or even okay. Where I'm from, you'd owe that writer an apology.

yet i don't think i said anything uncalled for i said what i thought and what i thought was that she had no right to do what she did and Someones gonna read that trash she should at-least know what I think of the matter.
Why should she care what you think? Especially when you fill your E-mail with exclamation points, curse words, and bad spelling and grammar? I'd imagine your "rant"--and I use the word loosely--sat for all of two seconds in her inbox before it was deleted.

It's okay to be upset about something you read. It is not okay to threaten or shout at or curse at someone for simply expressing her own viewpoint. That is beyond uncalled-for--in fact, I daresay the sort of crude, small-minded behavior you displayed in that letter would group you with the likes of the Taliban. And if you can't see that, sunshine, more's the pity.

Freedom of speech and Religion are things that uphold eachother yet she hasn't the right the make offencive remarks and threats about somone else .
:rolleyes: You chose to take offense. The responsibility for your emotions belongs to you--don't try to blame her for your little temper tantrum.

She calls fo the Christians to claim the country for their own and abolish all other religions FGS..
So? Do you really think that would ever happen? And in any case, do you think you've really helped change her viewpoint? Or do you think you reinforced it instead?

So many people want to claim their right to free speech. But free speech is not truly free--it carries with it a high price. You see, when you speak, you have to take responsibility for your words.

[shnen]

I usually try to ignore these things, you can't change anyone, but I do agree with a few points... and if I had the time I probably would write something too, but growing up in a xian household I know no matter what you say, they will turn it around to best suit their needs.

I am glad you decided to write them, however professionalism in your writing will always get you farther. :)

[Twilight Garden]

After reading this whole thread, all I have to say is... :rolleyes:

[CondurerMan]

Though I ment all that I said in the letter.
The curse words might have been uncalled for.

Threat
I said no such thing I ment i would pursue* this in diffrent ways.
Non of them is *VIOLANCE*

[Myst]

A threat is a threat no matter how you put it.

I don't care if you meant physical violence or not.

[CondurerMan]

Put things in proper view

"She wants to kill me"

"I want to file a complaint"

mmmm.... equal threats yep for sure

[Phoenix Blue]

I call for imidiat action against this **** or i will be FORCED to take it to extreme!! measures
Maybe you'd like to explain how else she was supposed to take this? That is a threat--and because it's so vague, it could be interpreted as a threat of physical violence.

Did you E-mail this or snail-mail it? If you e-mailed it, you might be lucky--her company may not have time to talk to your ISP and have your account shut down. If you snail-mailed it, all I can say is, don't be surprised if the FBI comes a-knockin'.

[CondurerMan]

1) i have no idea what snail-mail is.
2) i'm a little out of their Juristiction* in Israel+so what if they disconnect it was worth it.
3) She can interpret it any-way she likes too.

[Melysande]

"snail-mail" is a slang term for U.S. Post Office mail. It's called "snail-mail" because it travels as slow as a snail in comparison to e-mail.

[Phoenix Blue]

:rolleyes: If you're in Israel, why do you give a rat's arse about issues that are internal to the United States?

[CondurerMan]

If you havn't noticed so far
I give a rats ass when it comes to insulting an mis-labelling my faith.

I have seen this thread was a bit more subtle but with the same general idea.
http://www.mysticwicks.com/showthread.php?threadid=5584

[Illuminatus]

You go, ConduerMan!

That barely-coherent angry rant will surely expose the error of their ways, and give rise to a more sensitive and tolerant viewpoints, opening new channels of communication between enlightened minds!


... NOT!

- Illuminatus!

PS. I am assuming that the title of this thread, Religious Biggot, refers to yourself? Or is it the person you are writing to? It's unclear. From where I am standing, it looks like it could go either way.



Originally posted by CondurerMan

----- Original Message -----
From: Dor
To: stm@sammytippit.org
Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 7:01 AM
Subject: Racist and HELL PROVOKERS


first of all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This so-called reporter of yours called Renee Tippit is nothing more then a low-life religion biggot!!!!
She is a Fanatic DRIVEN to OBSCENE and REVOLTING comments about a RELIGION she has
no knowledge of!!

Second of all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Her so-called Perspactice is nothing less then an attempt to return to the old EXTREME CRISTIAN world
as i quate from her artical:

"So, there you have it. God does not like it. In fact, He hates it as only He can. There is no and, if, but, or etc. And there is absolutely no way to get around it. It is wrong. It is sin. Not to mention scary and a little creepy."

Her idea of "God" lies millions of miles away from normal perspective

"We were founded on Christian principles and foundations and yet we have flung those morals out the window and replaced them with hedonistic ideas and philosophies"

further more!

She wishes to return to the days of old does she!!!!!!!!!?

well here's and idea for you ******!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

please give this line to her!

YOU SHOULD BE PUT IN A MANTLE INSTITUTE YOU LOW LEVEL ***** !!!
YOUR IDEAS ARE MORONIC AND OFF-DATED!!!
IT WAS MERELY THE FALT OF AN ****** EMPLOYER THAT YOU HAVE THIS JOB!!!!!!!!!!!

And last but not least you are a ****** old-fashion hag !!! you are your own idea of a witch

I am a Wiccan i take pride in that fact I have seen the the True world yet i do not disturb your's.
Our wishes are to have normal live's!! with freedom of religion!! and that is the real FONDATION of the United-States!!! maybe you don't belong there!!

I call for imidiat action against this **** or i will be FORCED to take it to extreme!! measures

__________________________________________________________________
ICQ#: 83583008
Current ICQ status:

[CondurerMan]

This was my first tie running into-one of these articles I responded inmaturely but to be honest it wont matter any-how since the site is Gosplecom.net

[Illuminatus]

Originally posted by CondurerMan
This was my first tie running into-one of these articles I responded inmaturely but to be honest it wont matter any-how since the site is Gosplecom.net

Of course, you are right. With some people, there's no hope of reasoning with them. They cannot listen or change. I'm glad you're not like that!

[Rævyn Cigány]

Originally posted by MidnightSun
when writing a reply letter to a website or an editor, etc, please please please use a spell checker..it makes you look very uneducated yourself when you mis-spell words.
...
Sorry if this seems rude but it's an important part of writing letters to people if you want to be taken seriously. I'll also echo what everyone else said. You say it's not right to threaten people and then you do it...not very smart if you ask me.

You took the words right out of my mouth. And just to put my own two cents in...

I do understand your frustration, CM...and I'm positive you're not the only one. However, isn't threatening harm only serving to help them prove that they are right? If I were in your shoes, I'd seethe on the inside but very smilingly let this lovely woman (*grin*) know the truth about wicca, instead of blowing up at her. It will do one of two things: either it will confuse the snot out of her, ( :T ) and she'll leave the subject alone, or it will intrigue her into doing some REAL research on wicca and other pagan religions...that's what happened to me four years ago...

B*B

Rae )O(

[Phoenix Blue]

Quoth Illuminatus:
Of course, you are right. With some people, there's no hope of reasoning with them. They cannot listen or change. I'm glad you're not like that!
:rotfl:

[MammaStar]

Well, I sent a note too. But it was more "fluffy bunny" type, IMO at least.

Here it is:


I was directed to your article regarding "Wiccan practice" on military bases. What is it exactly that you all don't like about other religions. I do not mean this in jest, I am honestly, trying to
understand what you all have against other religions. Is it because it's different than what you practice?

I was raised Roman Catholic, by an Italian Mother and Irish Father. My Dad was an Altar boy, I've been baptized, first Communion and made my
confirmation. I even baptized my 10 year old son when he was born. But I left the church. There are many reasons why, YET, I don't believe that the Catholic church, or 98% of Christians are bad people. I don't condemn them because they believe in something different than I. I give respect, and therefore, would like the same respect from others even though I am deemed "different" from everyone.

Growing up, I believed like you all do, the whole "witches are ugly" thing. Then I met my very first witch. She was beautiful. Kind.
Involved with the community. The entire town adores her. She is a good, honest, wonderful person. She just happens to believe in
something different than most of the world.

I don't believe my way of believing things are the "one true" way, nor do I believe there is any "one true way". I do believe, that we all, Christians, Muslims, Hebrews and Pagans/Wiccans/Witches (we're a large diverse group) all get the same result, just go about things differently.

What I am saying, my friend, is that yes, you all have every right to think, say, and believe what you want. But so do I. Do not forget that. I hope, when you do encounter a person who is a Witch, or Wiccan or Purple for that matter, you give them respect as they would do you.

There are plenty of bad people out there. Some are Pagan, or Muslim, and yes, there are plenty of bad people out there who claim to be Christian (let's not forget the recent Priest scandals shall we).

Good luck to you. Thank you for the article and allowing me to express my feelings.

Love & Light to you all.

Starlite

I was too nice wasn't I? :rolleyes:

[Danustouch]

Very Nice Ldy Starlite :)

See, Condurer Man, Ldy Starlites letter, and anyone else who replies in such an open, kind, and intelligent manner, will do more good for the Pagan Community than any flaming letter you could send.

I don't know if Ldy Starlites letter will make this author stand up and take notice. In all honesty, I don't believe it will. But your's will do even worse. Yours will force her to even greater extremes. She will believe she is being attacked, call prayer meetings, etc, all because of your letter. "The Pagan community hates me....they're going to cast spells on me. I'm going to be attacked!". That is the response YOUR letter will get.

Ldystarlites response from this woman will most likely be "You are merely deluded by satan, I'll be praying for you". Now..which response do you like best? Personally, I believe that if we as Pagans act in an intelligent, mature, reasonable manner, we will give them very little grease for their wheels of hatred. If you catch my drift. What, after reading ldy starlites letter, could she say that is bad about ldy starlite, or pagans like her? Nothing, except that she believes that they are mistaken. Which leaves us back to square one. On the other hand, your letter, leaves us back at ground zero, not even square one. It set us back a mile in issues of tolerance.

Fundamentalist Christians of this authors ilk are always looking for excuses to invalidate, and even demoralize our faith. When someone calls them names, or says "i'll take extreme measures" this gives them exactly what they want. It gives them the grease, to turn their wheel of intolerance. "See..pagans promote violence. They attack people, They will curse me, they will attack me, they have foul moths, they hate all christians. See! I told you!". Not too hard to imagine, that this is precisely what this author is saying right now.

Please, in the future, think very carefully about how you represent the pagan community. Think before you write. Develope a concept for your letter. If you wish to debate the article, do so logically. Develope a logical, thought out argument, dissecting what her assertions are, speak the truth, to counter the falsehood of the article, and portray yourself as a moral, upright, mature, rational human being. Not a beserker. :)

[WandererInGray]

Actually, Danus, guess which one is the only one she'll remember?

*shakes head* Goodness....

[MammaStar]

Sad but true. She won't probably won't even mention or probably acknowledge, receipt of my letter.

Hopefully, maybe she'll have read it and somewhere in the back of her mind, she'll see the point I'm trying to make. But I don't think that'll ever happen. But I don't regret sending my response. Maybe, someone who helps with that site, will see the note and maybe, just maybe, that person will be brave enough to realize that "hey, maybe there is another way". I don't expect to change anyone's life or way of thinking, but I just wanted to point out, that the things she spoke of in her note, aren't all that accurate.

As my mom says about me, "I'm always trying to save the world and make everyone get along." heh heh. Now, if only people knew my REAL motives, that I'm merely trying to TAKE OVER the world.....

:lol:

[I Luciferi]

Originally posted by CondurerMan
Non of them is *VIOLANCE*

All of those spelling errors...that was a joke right?

[I Luciferi]

How did I end up in this old thread?

[materra]

Okay guys, remember CM is from Israel. Spelling, if English is your second or third language, is difficult. Spell check is also hard to use in the language programs. So lets get over it. It's like poking fun at someone who is unable to speak English well, and they have an accent.

I also see how he feels threatened by her. She is representative of the folks who would love to go back to the "Burning times" and end our lives. She implies this through the entire article. Threats to our lives are perceived differently in other parts of the world. If it happened here, there would be an investigation at the very least, and they would arrest this woman. In some parts of the world religious persecution results in your death and no one gives a hoot really, it happens all the time. CM we grew up in a different place and history (althought for how long we don't know.) I don't agree with all you said in your responce but I understand alot of why you would react the way you do.

Slightly off topic: This woman talks about Wiccans and how we worship. The first time someone discribed and had me read about communion... well, I was very distressed over drinking the blood of Christ, and eating the body of Christ. And you shouldn't chew? EWwww. See it is all in how you're raise. I think allowing folks to crucify your religious leaders is bad. But then the Christian have been blood thristy and gold hungry for quite awhile. Anytime they find folks different than themselves they have to "convert" them. They would greet the first Aliens ever with bibles and beads.

So it is no real stretch given what we know historically about Christians that they will succeed in reinstating the "Burning Times" with this woman as the rabid leader of the pack. I feel threatened too. Especially with this push we aren't a real religion that has been popping up alot lately.

[Phoenix Blue]

For my part, I'm actually kinda relieved - this woman's ranting about why our religious freedom is wrong, instead of celebrating the fact that we're being persecuted.

It's all about perspective. :)

[materra]

Dang it PB.....how'd you get so smart...? Smarty :).