POLL-Element vs. Suit

[Dagda Moon~Lily]

For me, it's Swords with Air and Wands with Fire....as it shows in my deck, Robin Wood Tarot.

What correspondence works best for you?

[Xois]

becuase I always think of the swords as an very active thing and wands as a very intellectual thing --I always associate wands with air (and the intellect) and swords with fire (action, battle, etc)

[amberlaine]

I"m totally with you Xois :)

[Lisa McKay]

I have always thought of Wands as air, and Swords as fire, but...with getting to know my new tarot deck:), I am starting to get a feel for Wands as ambition and drive-fire traits; and for Swords all types of mental decisions like contemplation and guilt-air traits. I hope that made sense.

Thanks Dagda for all the gentle nudges that you have given. They have really helped, as well as seeing everyone else's view of these suits.:]

In Light and Love,

[reanna]

Being that I have only recently started working with the tarot, I have no other knowledge of any other decks other than the Robin-Wood.
So,I am sticking with wands:fire swords:air

:)

[Silver Venus]

I'm with dagda and Reanna on this, but can totally understand and like how these elements can be swaped around.
For me Wands are Fire in my work and because on my decks they are shown as strong and vibrant. And Swords are Air, because an Athame represents Air to me and again on my decks they are shown as sharp and cold.

[Lilu]

I have always associated swords with fire because they are forged in fire. I also agree with Xois on her interpretation, the wand has always been associated with intellect for me, as is Air, so they go together.

BB
Lilu

[cydira]

I knew that there were several different ways to view the suits, but I didn't expect such an even split. :)

[Neek]

The deck I use portraits the suit of wands with fire, so I associate wands with fire and swords with air.

:cool:
Neek

[Dagda Moon~Lily]

Neek,

Welcome! Make yourself at home, and post away!

I associate wands with fire because I see each with traits of passion and desires. Swords and Air I see as the intellectual and mental trappings.

:D

[BrightStar]

Hi all!
I've been away for a week.So much to catch up on!
I can totally see everybody's points on this subject.The deck I use is The Witches' Tarot,it has swords as fire and wands as air.So I go with that.
Peace and Love
BrightStar

[Silver Venus]

Wow this is so interesting ~ I have always thought that swords were air but Lilu's post about them been forged in fire I can totally see your point.
Im still not budging thou :D Here are examples from one of my decks ..
Air ~ Swords ~ Page of Swords ~ where the card depicts a young boy sat on a cloud blowin air out into the wind...

[Silver Venus]

And for... Fire ~ Wands ~ 5 of Wands ~ Where the card shows a man and a woman fighting a Dragon with fire wands ~ fighting fire with fire!...

[reanna]

Those are absolutley beautiful cards....
I must have missed you posting this but I am going to anyway.....
What deck is that???

Absolutely powerful visuals on those cards!

[Emy]

For me it is wands with fire and swords with air... and it is also the way it is corresponds with both my decks (Gill and Cosmic)...

Really it feels weird to think of it in any other way, but then again, this is what I am used to!

B*B

[Kaylara]

I always looked at it like this... Swords were forged from fire, wands for me command air and air elementals the best. So, I attribute the same things to my tarot work.

Kaylara

[Jazzmine]

I have always used swords with fire, and wands with air. That is the way I first learned it and I don't see any reason to start confusing myself. It happens so easily.;)

[Wyrdsister]

I'm so glad this thread was started! Thanks!

Before I was told any different, I automatically associated wands-to-air and swords-to-fire for a lot of the same reasons that Lilu mentioned. (esp. the "forged in fire" part) To be honest, I now have had difficulty seeing them the other way around, but everyone's posts have helped me with that. Thanks, all!

As for how they are represented in any decks I own, I only have one deck (The Witches' Tarot) and I'm really not sure how they match up. This just means that I must look at my deck more often! (hee hee!)

G'night all, and Goddess Bless,

Wyrdsister

[Semele]

Catching up on older threads...sorry!!

I use sword/air, wands/fire. Not really sure why I always looked at it this way, but I think of swords and see someone waving a sword through the air. Also when I think of wands I see fire shooting from the tip of it. Maybe too many Disney movies is to blame!!!

I can see the alternative meanings as well though. I guess this is just one of personal choice for the reader.

[Emy]

I just realized why I associate wands with fire and swords with air, well I think that it has to do with the fact that all my decks are associated that way, like queen of wands has a wand with flames on it... and many of the swords card have clouds or blue sky or feathers in it... :)
Or maybe it is the other way arround, I choose these decks because they were associated this way,... could be...

Blessings

[Kiya]

Yeah, I only just noticed this thread!

Sword with air because of the swishing sound as they are used. It may sound daft, but it works for me.

Wands are fire because they are the essence of creativity, courage and passion.

I've tried looking at them the other way, and it is very interesting to see other views - but I'll stick with mine, as Jazzmine says, I don't want to get confused!

[Dagda Moon~Lily]

I just wanted to let some of the new comers to know that there is more than one page of threads! Look to the bottom on the threads page.....I think there is like....6 or 7 pages of threads to go through! ;) Most of them are Lessons.....others are fun and informative threads!


:sunny:

[loopy]

I think swords with fire and wands with air. I think 'cause I consider my athame to be a fire element tool, and a sword seems like a big athame. :) Plus, wands remind me of flying.

[Semele]

Originally posted by Dagda Moon~Lily
I just wanted to let some of the new comers to know that there is more than one page of threads! Look to the bottom on the threads page.....I think there is like....6 or 7 pages of threads to go through! ;) Most of them are Lessons.....others are fun and informative threads!


:sunny:

Yeah Mol just commented that tarot is growing by leaps and bounds...bigger than new pagans even. Now we just have to beat Just Talk!!! :rolleyes: :rolleyes: ;) :cool:

[widukind]

It's probably not all that rational, but Swords with fire, because that's what they're forged in, wands with air, because trees are connections between the earth and the air, and since wands are made of branches, right?

Brightest Blessings!

Widukind

[Myst]

Originally posted by Xois
becuase I always think of the swords as an very active thing and wands as a very intellectual thing --I always associate wands with air (and the intellect) and swords with fire (action, battle, etc)

Ditto. Swords to me are powerful and destructive like fire, wands to me are signs of intellect and spirituality thus air.

[Lavender]

Thanks, Myst!

It seems to be a fairly even split so far. I can see why Swords would be associated with fire and wands with air. Both sides of reasoning does make sense. I wonder how that would affect your readings if you switched them? Or should you be consistant?

[Myst]

Hm I would think being consistent would be better, even if the book that comes with the deck suggests otherwise. As usual I feel whatever works for you is what you should use! :)

[Flaire-FireStar]

I agree w/ Xois waay down there somewheres... Although my deck (Rider Waite) says that wands correspond w/ fire & swords w/ air.. (don't agree w/ it though... hehe)

[StormCloud]

I'm another wand/fire sword/air. But I can see how it could be the other way around for others. I see wands as fire cuz I always think of wands as wood and wood burns. (Hey, I live in a forest :) )
The Legend Arthurian deck does it the other way around. I have difficulty reading with it, but don't know if it's because of the switch or not. P

Interesting - I wasn't expecting such an even split either! Of my 8 decks, only one is sword/fire.

[Aengus McTeague]

I'm a wands=fire/swords=air kida guy...here's why.

1. Well, it's the way I learned it ;) early conditioning runs deep!

2. Wands=fire because of fire's association with creativity. Wands are used to manifest things in the material realm, to bring something from intention to reality.

Swords=air because of the resonance of separating truth from falsehood, cutting through illusion, and of choosing. A sword (or any weapon) carries with it an awsome responsibility to choose wisely, which to me fits in with the air/intellect association.

I can see the reasons others associate differently, and am glad Myst linked to this thread. Challenging my assumptions is always a good thing. That being said, I think I'll stay with the associations I have, they work for me.

[Theres]

i'm swords/air, because cold steel cuts through air and, as Aengus stated so eloquently, illusion. "truth is the sword of us all".
i think this is much more than just a tarot association. how do you cast your circle? how do you align your altar?
for me, i always begin casting the circle in the east with my athame or sword.
if the arguement that swords are forged in fire is to hold, then it follows that wands should be earth, right?
this whole arguement comes down to us from the Golden Dawn (those whacky mages!). i've heard it said that one version or the other was deliberately put out as a 'blind' to separate and confuse those who had not been initiated. if you weren't one of them, your magick would fail. i've never really bought into that theory. a little too 'pat'. but if this is true, then the GD themselves had swords/air.
ultimately, it is hard to break with your training without a very solid arguement to the contrary, and i don't know that we'll ever find that. so i'll just continue doing it 'the right way' (lol - bad Libra!).

[Shadowulfe]

I have always felt that swords were fire and wands are air.

[Joy]

I would have to go with: Swords-air/Wands-fire.
Your words are usually associated with swords. For instance, "your words are like a double edged sword." Or, "Your words cut like a knife." To me wands are associated with creativity which is the fire element. I've seen it both ways, but I am partial to this way.

[Twilight Garden]

In tarot reading I use wands=fire & swords=air because that is what seems appropriate with the symbolisms in the cards I use. When working magick I use the reversal of that for the same reasons many people claim. Swords are forged in fire, wands have a connection with earth and air.

[Demeter]

Swords are intellect, communication, as well as conflict. Most of the decks that I have use blue and gray colors for swords. On a physical level, swords are made of cold metal. Therefore, air.

Wands are creativity, drive, and passion. My decks use yellow, red and orange for background colors. And wands are made of wood -- they burn. My favorite deck, the Mythic, shows wands as torches in all of the wand cards. Therefore, fire.

[Pheonix]

I had to vote swords air wands fire but that is only because of the deck I am currently using. Previously it was the other way around. I tend to just go with the way my deck likes to be understood, I geuss it all just starts brainwashing me :bubbles:

[faceperson]

I don't necessarily think what works, I ponder the why. I have a hard time associating phenomenon, or at least viewing, the elements in a very Aristotelean manner. Sure, fire is change and force, but so is air. It is upon air that our seasons change. Perhaps swords represent forceful thinking and action, but I see wands [as will], or beliefs, causing more change [pro and con] in our world that swords. To weild a sword one needs a telos, this is something the wand will provide.

I read the cards in an entirely contextual environment. This is what has worked for me. That being said, may the heirophant keep his tower out of your sun and moon.

Enjoy life.

[noxtwice]

I'm a Swords/Air-Wands/Fire type because my teaching was in that direction and so is my deck.

[Windsmith]

Holy revived thread, Batman. Cool!

I use Wands for Air and Swords for Fire. Largely this is because I use the Victoria Regina deck (http://thefool.com). It depicts Wands with pens, which I associate with mental activity: jotting down ideas, writing messages, keeping ledgers and the like. The Swords imagery in the VR deck is guns, which go ka-boom.

[Meadhbh]

Swords/Air-Wands/Fire. If you look at the meaning of the different cards in the sword suite they deal a lot with situtions that require a choice to be made. While the wands deal with what should be done. Swords strike me as the airest because there is a deal of refection before action while wands are more do this now type things.

[Bethra]

I'm trad it's Swords / Air Wands / Fire with me always.

Swords the cutting edge of logic, wands the creative, enterprising drive

[cesara]

Swords/Air, Wands/Fire for me too.....

Swords - intellect. I often think of Athena and her sword, her owl...her wisdom :)

Wands - creativity, movement and motion.

[stella01904]

Swords, Air, Intellect.
Batons, Fire, sexual & creative energy.

That's for Tarot. For ritual I use the Blades-Fire correspondence.

It pays to be flexible with things like correspondences, directional colors, etc.

[SweetIsTheTruth]

Libra, represented by the Justice trump, is an air sign, She holds a sword, not a wand. Words, like thoughts, can be cutting. Words travel through air.

Wands are wood. You can't have fire without having wood or a wand for the fire to consume. If you burn it too fast it will burn itself out, etc.

Of course, none of this is here nor there. Use what correspondences work best for who you are and how you think. If you look back in history, you can see all sorts of odd correspondences, like swords being associated with emotion or earth. The swords/wands/fire/air question is very recent and only the tip of the iceberg.