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Windsmith
March 4th, 2008, 05:41 PM
One of the things I love about combining Pantheism and Paganism is that I'm not tied to anyone else's "time-honored" magical correspondences and ideas about what certain things "have to" mean in a magical context.

Take herbs, for instance. I consider myself a dilettante hearth-witch, so herbs are an important part of my magic. But I just realized yesterday that the only herbs I have correspondences for are the ones we regularly keep in our spice rack. I've looked up others, probably dozens of times, in books I consider reputable sources on this subject, and I promptly forget them as soon as I close the book. The ones that stick with me, the ones that I use when it comes time to do the spell, are the ones that I've come to myself, or that I've used in major workings that were basically focused on that one herb/vegetation.

Here are some of my correspondences, so you can see what I'm talking about:

Oregano: dependability (especially being able to depend on other people), travel, new phases in life
Cinammon: fire/passion, things that are not as they appear
Allspice: strong foundations
Sage: wisdom, family (especially surviving difficult family events)


These have their bases in my personal experience cooking with these herbs. And since I view magic from a psychological stand-point, that's extremely important to me. Someone else's list of what one herb or another is "supposed to" mean isn't going to help get me in the mindset I need. An association I know instinctlively from having used that herb before will.

Has anyone else created correspondences that work for them and have reasons mostly unconnected to "conventional" magical wisdom?

RavenStars
March 5th, 2008, 12:05 AM
I've studied candle magic from a number of different sources, but am finding that all the complexities aren't necessary. I use colors that make sense to me, I carve but sometimes just create a collage or drawing to put under the candle, I have my favorite oil...
http://www.somaluna.com/cat/abramelin_oil.asp
but also really like a homemade fast luck oil that was gifted to me, and I don't use cookbook scripts but very carefully craft my own. In essence my correspondences and practices are based on my needs at the time. I'm sure I'll create some idiosyncratic ones over time, and I do consult books when I'm stumped, but the more energy I put into customizing my own workings, the more I invest in the magic and the results.

cheddarsox
March 5th, 2008, 07:56 AM
Cinnamon is an anti-depressant for me

A great friend recently went to New York city to a huge spice shop and brought back four different cinnamons from different parts of the world, so I'm feeling pretty magical in that area right now!

I'll think more on this question, because I know I have lots of "associations" that I've discovered over the years, though I don't use the term magic for them.

Time to go to work.

cheddar

Windsmith
March 6th, 2008, 06:15 PM
I've been thinking more about this, and I'm going to have the admins change the thread name to "Magic and Pantheism - making it up as we go." Because it's not just about correspondences; it's about magic in general, and how those of us who follow Pantheist paths go about incorporating it into our lives.

We have a thread in this forum about "the place of magic in Pantheism," and that's great for the theoretical, philosophical side of coin. But this thread is about the nitty-gritty, about what we do magically, as people who don't, you know, entirely believe in magic! :lol:

RavenStars
March 7th, 2008, 01:16 AM
Good. I was getting confused about this.

cheddarsox
March 9th, 2008, 07:38 AM
Organic Ritual!

My dear sister is very Catholic. She is also fascinated by my faith and the practice of it. She is always asking me what I am doing for holy days, about my rituals etc, which is very nice. I like sharing my spiritual life with someone I care about.

We just purchased a home and are in the process of moving, she has been asking me if I had done rituals for cleansing the energy of the "old" people, getting a "house saint" lined up, a ritual for bringing our energy into the home, which items we will bring in first, etc. She was a bit dissapointed that I didn't do a formal ritual before I carried any of our items into the home.

I didn't...but I did. I mean, sometimes ritual is organic, or as Windsmith says, we make it up as we go. Yes, I could have stopped, opened all the windows, sprinkled salt, swept it out the door with a new broom, gone through all the rooms with a candle and ushered the "old spirits" away...I could have done all that, but I didn't.

I don't feel like I made a mistake, I'm just following my senses...I was not eager to usher all the energy of the old inhabitants out without getting a sense of it, maybe I needed to tune into a couple of things before I strip the place clean of them. And while I am not following a set formula, there is some "rightness" about what we are moving into the living space of the home first...our creatures that live on the hearth (cast iron cat and dog) a Days of the Dead skeleton I made years ago, and our books. That doesn't feel at all random to me.

Yesterday, the former occupant came and removed the last of her stuff from the garage, and while she worked, I was upstairs wiping down doors, moldings, windowsills, etc. As she finished, I finished and poured the dust filled water down the drain. I didn't plan it, I just needed something to work on while she did her thing, and with the limited supplies, there was not much I could do.

That is part of my trust in the Universe, that even the ritual is/will be supplied. I don't have to "force" things. It is not glamorous and flashy, but it is very real.

I have planned ritual, and it has been really powerful, but sometimes I don't, and the Universe provides, and it is just as powerful.

I was sort of feeling badly, because my sister kept asking me about rituals, cleansings and blessings and I was wondering if I had left some critical thing undone and cursed our time in our new home or at least passed by a chance for blessing, but no, I didn't.

I didn't feel right about "taking possesion" in a conquering way, or to be too quick to hurry them out of the place. It felt better, kinder to go slow.

Organic ritual, those that unfold naturally as part of the situation, and address the situation in a gentle but appropriate way.

I guess I am sorta more about letting the Universe alter me, than having me alter the Universe.

Xentor
March 9th, 2008, 12:21 PM
Very well said, and well thought, too. We all react differently to ritual, and like you, I'm not a person for flashy show in my religious practice. I do happen to like flashy show... I love the stage and I love performing. But that's a completely different part of me. That isn't the part that quiets down to listen to the grass grow.

The magic I do, if it deserves that name at all, pertains to healing and altering. I use no candles, no spices or herbs, no crystals, no wand. They are props. I believe the power is in the universe and I have the talent to use a bit of it. What I do have however, are connotations with the elements. I was taught to connect the elements to ways of behaviour, taught to respond in kind or opposite or slightly off, in order to dissipate a situation as quickly as possible. At the same time, I was taught how to behave in order to have a situation blow up as quickly as possible.

Is that magic? To some it is. If anyone is interested, I can list the connotations between the magical elements and behavioural patterns.

Eleisawolf
March 9th, 2008, 02:29 PM
Interested to hear what you have, Xentor.

For my part, I started working with the elements when I first started practicing Paganism--like many of us. I'm still very attracted to them, but early on I started having problems and questioning--why is air in the east, and who the heck made it yellow? Isn't yellow air diseased? Air is pale blue. Why is earth in the north--that's where the storms come from--isn't that better for air? Earth is in the west, with the mountains. Okay, I'll agree that fire is in the south, but for me, water could also be south, because that's where the Gulf of Mexico is. However, we're land locked in actuality, so water takes on something different, here. The Platte River, which was the water sustenance for this particular region--along with the Cherry Creek Reservoir, which is another water source here--is in the east. And fire is more orange and yellow, instead of just red. Water is deep blues, but we can't leave out the greens! Air, as I said, is pale blue and white and it's also the pink and, yes, after thought, pale yellow (not bright, sulfuric yellow!) of sunrise. Earth is loamy greens and browns. And east is water, north is air, south is fire, and west is earth. And let's not even talk about what everything was when I lived in Boston. It changes constantly.

What stuck for me was the spirit idea--the fifth element (or Elephant, if you prefer--about to read that Pratchett). The element of life as where I am is white, gold, silver, and is in the center--the within. And above--Father Sky, the life of inspiration and exploration. And below--Moist Mother Earth, the life of nurturing and sustenance.

Magic is metaphor used to reach the buried meaning within our, as I've heard Windsmith call it, Deep Self. How can one work with metaphors which don't resonate deeply within?

More pondering going on, here... I'll come back with more.

Peace

RavenStars
March 10th, 2008, 03:00 AM
Is that magic? To some it is. If anyone is interested, I can list the connotations between the magical elements and behavioural patterns.

Yes! I love elemental/directional correspondances. Eleisawolf lists some of many reasons to object to the traditional ones. I've always said, do what works for you.

Air = clear, sky blue if I must but preferable burnt out blue that's nearly white
South = red/yellow/orange (I'd rather have a living flame with its the blue heart)
Water = also clear unless I'm working with something that makes it another color
Earth = strata, dry limestone caves, crystal caverns, even the firey heart of our planet

RoseRhythm
March 10th, 2008, 03:25 AM
I just wanted to say this is a wonderful thread and I've become completely engrossed in it. I've been stuck in the rigid this represents that kind of belief for so long that I find these ideas completely refreshing and am going to end up burrowing through all the Pantheism forum threads now. Thank you.

-Rose

cheddarsox
March 10th, 2008, 05:59 AM
Is that magic? To some it is. If anyone is interested, I can list the connotations between the magical elements and behavioural patterns.

OH, yes! please do!

cheddarsox
March 10th, 2008, 06:06 AM
I love the elements AND the directions, but I agree, depending on where you live, they don't always fit the usual correlations, and in some places, up and down are pretty important directions as well.

Since the point ( I think) of using the directions and elements is to authentically connect to the energy and power of them, it makes more sense to use correlations that fit and allow the participants to make such an authentic connection. So I say, alter them to fit the locale/ situation.

I never understood the yellow/green air either...I wondered where the person who came up with that lived!

I haven't done formal ritual with calling of directions for a couple of years, since I gave up the leadership of a local group. I use the elements, but again, in a less formal way. Like last summer I made up a batch of adobe in the yard and that was very elemental, but not like calling on the elements, etc...so the "official" correlations haven't been much of an issue for me (no one to tell me I'm not doing it right), but the intimate connection has been there.

I love to swim in a cold mountain stream or pool beneath a waterfall and then bake myself dry on a sun warmed boulder...that is one of my favorite ways of connecting to the elements. Sometimes in ritual...no words are necessary.

Windsmith
March 10th, 2008, 03:47 PM
Is that magic? To some it is. If anyone is interested, I can list the connotations between the magical elements and behavioural patterns.Quite interested, Xen!


For my part, I started working with the elements when I first started practicing Paganism--like many of us. I'm still very attracted to them, but early on I started having problems and questioning--why is air in the east, and who the heck made it yellow? Isn't yellow air diseased? Air is pale blue. Why is earth in the north--that's where the storms come from--isn't that better for air? Earth is in the west, with the mountains. Okay, I'll agree that fire is in the south, but for me, water could also be south, because that's where the Gulf of Mexico is. However, we're land locked in actuality, so water takes on something different, here. The Platte River, which was the water sustenance for this particular region--along with the Cherry Creek Reservoir, which is another water source here--is in the east. And fire is more orange and yellow, instead of just red. Water is deep blues, but we can't leave out the greens! Air, as I said, is pale blue and white and it's also the pink and, yes, after thought, pale yellow (not bright, sulfuric yellow!) of sunrise. Earth is loamy greens and browns. And east is water, north is air, south is fire, and west is earth. And let's not even talk about what everything was when I lived in Boston. It changes constantly.I actually heard once about a coven in the Boston area that insisted on putting Water in the West, because that's "where it goes." I guess it was "La la la, what enormous body of Water to our East?"

The directional/elemental associations work for me because they're part of a whole network of metaphorical associations. For instance, I also associate East with mornings (sunrise, dontcha know). And because a lot of what I do in the morning involves breath (that first big yawn of the morning, somewhat labored breathing during my morning work-out, singing, etc.), then Air/breath/morning/East becomes a system of associations that make sense to me. Fire in the South makes perfect sense because I assume that anything South of me (at least to the Equator) will be hotter. West for Water is good because I associate it with evening, and evening is when I'm most likely to cry (it's a pent-up stress from work thing). And to the North is the vast tundra of Northern Canada, and large herds of migratory critters (ask me sometime about the "lifecycle of the herd" invocation of Earth). It's traditional, but it also makes sense. Of course, if I'm doing a ritual on the banks of the Mississippi River, I'll switch Water to the East in a heartbeat. I'm not rigid about it.

I agree about the colors, though. I have no idea why Air is yellow. Air is colorless. But since "clear" isn't really a color, I think of it as light blue, or white. Fire definitely is more yellow in my mind, or even blue. Water is blue, but sometimes green or turquoise or brown, depending on what's suspended in the liquid or is on the lake- or stream-bed. And Earth is brown or black or the dark green of the forest.

Then again, sometimes they're no colors at all. Sometimes they're bodily functions. Or musical instruments. But mostly, they're just themselves.

Eleisawolf
March 10th, 2008, 09:42 PM
I just wanted to say this is a wonderful thread and I've become completely engrossed in it. I've been stuck in the rigid this represents that kind of belief for so long that I find these ideas completely refreshing and am going to end up burrowing through all the Pantheism forum threads now. Thank you.

-Rose

Welcome, Rose! Feel free to browse all you want. Glad something here resonated for you.

Peace

mtpathy
March 10th, 2008, 11:02 PM
I was taught to connect the elements to ways of behaviour, taught to respond in kind or opposite or slightly off, in order to dissipate a situation as quickly as possible. At the same time, I was taught how to behave in order to have a situation blow up as quickly as possible.

Is that magic? To some it is. patterns.

i agree with your statment Xentor, ive never known any other way of defining vibration other then through the overlayed pattern of emotional context, so since i work primarly in aura reading and empathy "energy manipulation" this method is indeed where my system of magick is built off of.
my belief of magick is that it works in two ways, either you cast magick outside of yourself to manipulate your reality "through physical manipulation of form", or you cast magick within yourself to manipulate your perception of reality "through acceptance of yourself", but to this end i fail to see how a individual or a group casting magick has anything to do with the universe, nature or religion other then a system of symbolism to use inorder to define vibration.

Earthwalker
March 17th, 2008, 05:08 PM
One thing that makes sense to me from a Pantheist perspective is to incorporate hard science more into things like magic and correspondence systems. Maybe I'm partial to this as a scientist, but I find there's an amazing amount of untouched lore through studying what science has uncovered and then applying some of that to magic. For example, with rocks and minerals it forces you to consider the true relation of different minerals to each other. Amethyst is chemically identical to quartz save some additional impurities that produce its purple color. How might that information be used to inform the correspondences for both? Does that mean they should have some area of overlap? I for one love using science to inform my practice.

Windsmith
March 18th, 2008, 02:55 PM
One thing that makes sense to me from a Pantheist perspective is to incorporate hard science more into things like magic and correspondence systems. Maybe I'm partial to this as a scientist, but I find there's an amazing amount of untouched lore through studying what science has uncovered and then applying some of that to magic. For example, with rocks and minerals it forces you to consider the true relation of different minerals to each other. Amethyst is chemically identical to quartz save some additional impurities that produce its purple color. How might that information be used to inform the correspondences for both? Does that mean they should have some area of overlap? I for one love using science to inform my practice.Earthwalker, this is wonderful. I don't always feel called to this method, myself, since I'm a writer, and the symbolic calls to me pretty strongly for my practice. But I do try to incorporate science when I can, like when my wife and I did a circle-casting that went through the life-cycle of a plant to invoke the elements.

The issue I often have is that I don't know a lot of hard science, and I worry that, if I use it willy-nilly-milli-vanilli, I'll end up drifting into pseudo-science. And I want to avoid that, obviously.

There are, however, places where the symbolic and the scientific overlap, and those are my favorite places to dwell. I've done some research on traditional weather sayings that have been proven to have basis in scientific fact. I'm betting that a lot of traditional lore has scientific basis (and I'm sure Mythbusters will get to most of it eventually), which offers us, as you say, "an amazing amount of untouched lore." Definitely something to ponder more deeply as I travel along my path.

(Along those lines, my wife and I have as-yet-embryonic plans to do some holiday rituals built around activities from a "Fun and easy science experiments to do with kids!" sort of book.)

Earthwalker
March 19th, 2008, 12:01 AM
WIndsmith, I understand the want to avoid pseudoscience. Pseudoscientific ideas in themselves are not neccesarily bad nor are they without value; its where they are confused with well-researched hypotheses and theories that it bothers me. Human beings do, after all, think in a pseudoscientific manner on a day to day basis (or to use a word with a less negative connotation, semi-scientific). We make predictions, experience an event, then re-evaluate based on the experience. It's the same basic framework of science, only on a day to day basis we do not adhere to the more intense scrutiny of scientific methodology. Big thing it must have is numbers and statistical significance. There's a bit more to it than this, of course. =)

There actually is a bit of a movement towards using science as the basis for a universal mythos. Seriously - what better creation myth could you ask for than a reading of the evolutionary epic infused with poeticism and purposiveness? Neopagans often speak of the interconnectedness of all things. Want to really see interconnectedness? Look at evolution! In a mytho-poetic way, we have a richer ancestral lineage than any Pagan mythology ever conceived and a broader spectrum of brothers and sisters to boot. Everything that's here now is a product of common ancestors. There's something really beautiful in that; a lesson that today's fragmented world might do well to heed with keen ears and open minds. Neopaganism, especially Pantheism, could take many rich cues from things like this.

Windsmith
March 19th, 2008, 03:43 PM
There actually is a bit of a movement towards using science as the basis for a universal mythos. Seriously - what better creation myth could you ask for than a reading of the evolutionary epic infused with poeticism and purposiveness? Yes! Yes! Oh, Earthwalker, you've hit on my feelings exactly. Some people I know, hailing from many different religions, and who believe in creationism, say their sense of the wonderful intricacies of the Universe is what lends credence to their belief - to look at the amazing interconnections and interdependences couldn't have been the work of "mere chance," and isn't it amazing to "know that God/dess/s/es did this?" Me, I think it's more amazing that the system developed itself this way - that creation evolves out of the needs of the created.

That is numinous wonder, indeed.

Heart of All
March 19th, 2008, 11:10 PM
There actually is a bit of a movement towards using science as the basis for a universal mythos. Seriously - what better creation myth could you ask for than a reading of the evolutionary epic infused with poeticism and purposiveness? Neopagans often speak of the interconnectedness of all things. Want to really see interconnectedness? Look at evolution! In a mytho-poetic way, we have a richer ancestral lineage than any Pagan mythology ever conceived and a broader spectrum of brothers and sisters to boot. Everything that's here now is a product of common ancestors. There's something really beautiful in that; a lesson that today's fragmented world might do well to heed with keen ears and open minds. Neopaganism, especially Pantheism, could take many rich cues from things like this.

I'm currently taking a class called "Imagination in Religion" that's being taught by an excommunicated Catholic priest. I talked about the main book for the class, The Universe Story, in a thread I started in the books forum, and that's basically what the book does. My professor is talking about how he things that we're on the cusp of a change where people will develop that sort of religious mythos based on scientific knowledge, and I hope he's right. Looking at things that way has converted me to pantheism, and I feel so much more awe-inspired by everything that is than I ever did as a more traditional pagan.

And anyway, I think that's a really fantastic movement because it gets rid of the sort of dual mythology of our time. So many people either go through life simultaneously believing two different creation stories (the scientific one, and then the one in which their deity of choice created the world) or else hang on so tightly to one as to treat the other as if it's evil or something. And I think that trying to create a more cohesive worldview that includes both our religious and scientific knowledge is a pathway for a more healthy society.

Eleisawolf
March 20th, 2008, 12:27 AM
So many people either go through life simultaneously believing two different creation stories (the scientific one, and then the one in which their deity of choice created the world) or else hang on so tightly to one as to treat the other as if it's evil or something. And I think that trying to create a more cohesive worldview that includes both our religious and scientific knowledge is a pathway for a more healthy society.

I agree with this. The thing is, both the scientific and the spiritual creation stories are necessary to society. One for the purpose of understanding reality, and one for the purpose of creating community. Science is very important to impart knowledge about what we really have to deal with in the universe, but the importance of myth is in its reflection of who we, as humans are. If we look at myth in the right way, it bonds us as humans, through our cultures, our different understandings about the world as based on where and with whom we grow up, become adults, and live in the world.

Sadly, so far we see it more as a way of separating us from other cultures. That comes of taking myth literally and absolutely instead of seeing it as the cultural bond and human creation it actually is.

I'm not saying I think that a mythology based on science couldn't serve the same purpose. Perhaps it could. But Art, more than Science, is--to my mind--what makes us truly human.

I'm beginning to read more Joseph Campbell essays. I have to say, for a mystical pantheist such as myself, his work is more than compelling...

I do understand however, those who would disagree. I am, after all, an armchair scientist and a devotee of biological and astronomical study.

:)

Peace

Heart of All
March 20th, 2008, 02:17 AM
I'm not saying I think that a mythology based on science couldn't serve the same purpose. Perhaps it could. But Art, more than Science, is--to my mind--what makes us truly human.


I think it very well could. And I certainly understand what you're saying about the difference between taking myth symbolically and literally. But I do think that a mystical worldview based on science is both possible and I also think it opens up an avenue for art. There is a sentence from The Universe Story that really stands out to me in that way. "Wordsworth is a being the universe created to sense its own glory." I think that an art based on a scientific mythos could be both beautiful and give us a great sense of our humanity and our place in the universe as its creations.

Poledra
April 28th, 2008, 07:51 AM
This is one of the reasons why Wicca didn't seem right to me when I was first researching it. I came across lists and lists of correspondences for everything; colors, planets, herbs, directions... but I always wondered why this thing or that was associated with something else. When I didn't find any answers for why, in many cases, I realized that I can just come up with my own correspondences that make sense to me... even if they may not make sense to anyone else. I like the freedom that "creating" your own religion brings. I like to pick and choose what I will believe in and what I won't. That's what makes my religion so real to me now, more real that it has ever felt.

I'm a major why-monster myself and really hate not understanding underlying principles. Whenever traditional associations could be explained, I take them onboard but I'm not going to ignore everything I know and feel just because someone else made an association I don't understand. In actual fact, science is an ever-evolving process, just as religion and magic are so I have no problems with associations changing as I change and as I learn new things. Is that making it up as I go? Maybe. But I'd rather think of it as taking into account the fact that things that were powerful for me when I was 16 won't be now 10 years later and things that are powerful now won't necessarily work for me 10 years in the future. This is one of the benefits of approaching spirituality as a path and a journey.

Poledra

Xentor
April 28th, 2008, 10:53 AM
I too have the problem with established magical traditions about overwhelming lists of connotations. I've studied several and most of them don't make sense to me. Thus I choose to develop my own connotations.

However, it isn't like I'm making up stuff. I think it through, use it, study the results, and adjust it when necessary. Since it's my path, I am the one responsible for getting it right. If I get it wrong, I want someone to be able to come up and say, 'Hey there, I used your connotation and it sucks!'.

Windsmith
April 28th, 2008, 04:43 PM
I have no problems with associations changing as I change and as I learn new things. Is that making it up as I go? Maybe. But I'd rather think of it as taking into account the fact that things that were powerful for me when I was 16 won't be now 10 years later and things that are powerful now won't necessarily work for me 10 years in the future. This is one of the benefits of approaching spirituality as a path and a journeyThat is an excellent way of looking at it, Poledra. I hope my religion continues to grow and change, because that'll mean that I continue to grow and change.


If I get it wrong, I want someone to be able to come up and say, 'Hey there, I used your connotation and it sucks!'.Now I want to walk up to you and say that, just for the heck of it.

Let's see, do I have enough vacation time to come over there and track you down?...

Mogget
January 4th, 2009, 06:42 AM
I do a lot of work/magic with metaphor - I explain what something is "like" and nut that down till I get the right details and then just run with the metaphor... This is very much a part of my trraining in NLP and is related to what I callMetaphoric Landscaping more usually knon under the name of "Clean"...

So if it's work on myself I work with the metaphor usually in my head, and maybe reinforce it with a suitable ritual/symbolic action.

If I am working for someone else I usually do n external work, so I make the metaphor physical somehow and make the changes physically/symbollically - this may or may not involve traditional magick aspects depending on what the person is familiar with.

So basically isaid all that without nouns, so here are some more concrete examples....

Say you have a choice to make and you on't know which way to go... I literally mark it out as though there was a fork in the orad ahead, and get the person to d a meditatie walk alog each forl to find out what they find out about how they feel about the choice... the metaphors will take on a life of there own as each path finds itself with unique characteristics... if asked to descrbe how it loks one path might be thorny, the other wide and bare... and so on and so on.

If someone has a bad relationship that the can't disengage from I might use the obvious metaphor of cutting the cord, either with imagery or with poppets or candles and string.

To bring people closer I might use traditional imagery and meanings - ivy to bind... or go a little more avant garde to create a grafted plant...

I think themetaphors people resonate with are so completely mindblowingly powerful that most of my leanings are towards using metaphor... I treat Tarot as a useful tool for extracting healing metaphors, the same fro past life regression... and I hae excellent result in resolving nightmares and recurring dreams through metaphoric dream interpretation. I routinely examine my dreas and relate it to what it is "like" in my life, and I enjoy the challnege of paying attention to what metaphors I find myself using at different times.

Windsmith
January 6th, 2009, 05:37 PM
Um. Wow. Nothing really substantive to add here except, wow. This is a fantastic approach.

Also, "I said all that without nouns" should probably be tattooed on me somewhere. Maybe on my, you know, that one place...
So basically isaid all that without nouns, so here are some more concrete examples....

Say you have a choice to make and you on't know which way to go... I literally mark it out as though there was a fork in the orad ahead, and get the person to d a meditatie walk alog each forl to find out what they find out about how they feel about the choice... the metaphors will take on a life of there own as each path finds itself with unique characteristics... if asked to descrbe how it loks one path might be thorny, the other wide and bare... and so on and so on.

If someone has a bad relationship that the can't disengage from I might use the obvious metaphor of cutting the cord, either with imagery or with poppets or candles and string.

To bring people closer I might use traditional imagery and meanings - ivy to bind... or go a little more avant garde to create a grafted plant...

I think themetaphors people resonate with are so completely mindblowingly powerful that most of my leanings are towards using metaphor... I treat Tarot as a useful tool for extracting healing metaphors, the same fro past life regression... and I hae excellent result in resolving nightmares and recurring dreams through metaphoric dream interpretation. I routinely examine my dreas and relate it to what it is "like" in my life, and I enjoy the challnege of paying attention to what metaphors I find myself using at different times.