What is Hellenismos?

[Tim]

There was a question about "what is Hellenismos," and "who has the right to define it." The definition has been for as long as the modern movement has existed, and is a collective definition. I wanted to provide several sources.

Hellenismos, as originally intended, means the belief system of the Greeks, but even in the modern usage (which may be more appropriately Hellenism), refers to the character, thought, culture, and ethical system of ancient Greece. Modern Hellenismos is a religious movement that attempts to reconstruct the ancient polytheistic religion of ancient Greece in a modern context. ...
Hellenismos.us (Hellenismos Frequently Asked Questions) (http://hellenismos.us/index.php?page_id=2)

Hellenismos, also called "Hellenic Polytheism", is the traditional polytheistic religion of ancient Greece, reconstructed according to ancient and modern scientific sources and adapted to modern life. ... Hellenismos:now! (about Hellenismos) (http://hellenismos.suchdeinbuch.at/wiki/doku.php/en:hellenismos:start)

Hellenismos is the traditional, polytheistic religion of ancient Greece, reconstructed in and adapted to the modern world. It is also called Hellenic ... Hellenismos FAQ (The Cauldron: A Pagan Forum) (http://www.ecauldron.com/dc-faq.php)

Hellenismos is one of the names for the religion that I practice. Other terms are Hellenism, Hellenic or Greek Reconstructionism, Olympianism, Dodecatheism, Greek Paganism, Greco-Roman Paganism, Classical Paganism, or simply Paganism. I prefer Hellenismos because it is the most accurate description, as it encompasses the whole complex of Greek ethnicity, language, culture, religion, and way of life. For the ancients, there was no word which corresponded completely to our modern concept of religion. ... Sannion's Sanctuary (What is Hellenismos?) (http://www.winterscapes.com/sannion/hellenismos.htm)

Hellenismos is the practice of ancient Greek religion in the modern day world with ancient influence upon any or all of the following: liturgical structure, prayers, offerings, every day life, the mythology, and last but not least, the Greek gods. ...
Temenos Theon (About Hellenismos and reconstruction) (http://kyrene.4t.com/intro.html)

Hellenismos is the traditional, polytheistic religion of ancient Greece, reconstructed in and adapted to the modern world.
Winter, Sarah Kate Istra (2004) KHARIS: Hellenic Polytheism Explored, Cafepress.com, p 37.

Hellenic Neopaganism (Hellenic polytheistic reconstructionism, also Hellenismos, Hellenism and Dodekatheism) refers to various reconstructionist movements of Neopagan revivals of ancient Greek religious practices, emerging since the 1990s. Since 1997, the movement has been institutionalized under the Supreme Council of Ethnikoi Hellenes. ...
Hellenic Neopaganism. (2008, March 9). In Wikipedia, The Free Encyclopedia. Retrieved 14:04, March 13, 2008, from http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Hellenic_Neopaganism&oldid=196915065


There are even more sources that are citable.

[Twinkle]

Interesting. It would appear that Kate and sannion have *undefined* their own definition....and would contradict their assertion that only a *few* have defined Hellenismos as what it is.

[patch]

Nice post.
I always enjoy big info dumps :D

I'm sad the other thread closed, I had something so say about that 'hellenic wiccan coven'

[Tim]

Well, you can always start a new thread. :smile:

We actually discussed them extensively on MnM. It started with an evaluation of the information that is presented (or was, I haven't been there is a while) on their website, but the group is initiatory, set in a degree system, and most of what they really do is oath bound. That right there is a red flag it is not the Greek religion. After a short time, several representatives from the organization came on to defend it, but only really served to reinforce the idea that it was a cult (in the modern sense of the word).

[Halstrom]

I remember that debacle on MnM. Here's the link the to the discussion on MnM: http://www.mind-n-magick.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1168497347/0, if any of you's is interested. The thread is huge, so it'll make for a long read. Sadly, the link in the first doesn't work as the bravehost page is expired. Here's a link to the page on Angelfire: http://www.angelfire.com/journal/thessally/main.html.

[Twinkle]

It was interesting, to say the least. But at least it was exposed for what it was.

[Tim]

It looks like they have made a lot of changes to the site, and took down most of the more specific information about how they operate. This is part of the problem. They use a shroud of Hellenism to suck people in.

[Twinkle]

Well, of course they took it down. Can't have the pesky reconstructionists confusing everything with facts.:lol:

[Agaliha]

It looks like they have made a lot of changes to the site, and took down most of the more specific information about how they operate. This is part of the problem. They use a shroud of Hellenism to suck people in.

There is the Internet Archive, the results:
http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.angelfire.com/journal/thessally/main.html

[Tim]

I could not pull the one 2007 achieve for the anglefire site, but this was the one we originally were going off:

http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.thessaly.bravehost.com/


I started that thread on 1/11/2007 and this is the achieve from 1/10/2007:

http://web.archive.org/web/20070110113526/http://www.thessaly.bravehost.com/index.html


The thread restarted on 8/8, and this is the 8/10 achieve:

http://web.archive.org/web/20070710175924/http://www.thessaly.bravehost.com/index.html

[Twinkle]

It should probably be noted that the names of the Duarchy are oathbound. It was easily found with a quick Google search.

[patch]

To me, it's a red flag from both the wicca team and the hellenc team.
I don't have a problem with the actual coven, the deities aren't from a closed culture so there is no technical restriction as who who worships them.
It's the LABELS. It isn't hellenic, and it damn well isn't wicca (the mis-labeling of things as wicca is a major pet hate of mine, traditional wicca has 2 specific deities and is a strict orthopraxy. Very dogmatic. But alas, this is the wrong sub forum for this disscusson ;))

[Tim]

To me, it's a red flag from both the wicca team and the hellenc team.
I don't have a problem with the actual coven, the deities aren't from a closed culture so there is no technical restriction as who who worships them.
It's the LABELS. It isn't hellenic, and it damn well isn't wicca (the mis-labeling of things as wicca is a major pet hate of mine, traditional wicca has 2 specific deities and is a strict orthopraxy. Very dogmatic. But alas, this is the wrong sub forum for this disscusson ;))

I don't think they still call themselves Wiccan, though they are using a Wiccan structure... but they were being identified as a Gardnerian coven in the 90s, and even received a bunch of material for a Witchcraft museum directly from Raymond Buckland.

[patch]

I don't think they still call themselves Wiccan, thought they are using a Wiccan structure... but they were being identified as a Gardnerian coven in the 90s, and even received a bunch of material for a Witchcraft museum directly from Raymond Buckland.

Ah..Mr. buckland, another pet hate. ;)

Garderian? Dude...*headdesk*.
At least if you are correct they don't identify themselves as that anymore, makes me feel a little better xD

[Twinkle]

No...now their members just state that they are "the true ancient Greek religion"

[patch]

No...now their members just state that they are "the true ancient Greek religion"

Duh.
Didn't you know the ancient greeks followed a generic neopagan dualistic religion?
:lol:

[Twinkle]

ROFLMAO!!:lol: Oh my goodness....how did I forget that?

My bad.

[YoungSoulRebel]

I remember that debacle on MnM. Here's the link the to the discussion on MnM: http://www.mind-n-magick.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1168497347/0, if any of you's is interested. The thread is huge, so it'll make for a long read. Sadly, the link in the first doesn't work as the bravehost page is expired. Here's a link to the page on Angelfire: http://www.angelfire.com/journal/thessally/main.html.

Ah, long Internet message-board threads... The reason I don't mind being physically crippled (well, I mind a little bit, but not too much). :hehehehe:

[YoungSoulRebel]

It looks like they have made a lot of changes to the site, and took down most of the more specific information about how they operate. This is part of the problem. They use a shroud of Hellenism to suck people in.

This is why The Way-Back Machine on archive.org is so bleeding fabulous. :D

[Tim]

This is why The Way-Back Machine on archive.org is so bleeding fabulous. :D

I so totally agree. I've already caught people back dating essays to make it look like they developed an idea, that they really "borrowed" from somewhere else. :T