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Philosophia
March 23rd, 2008, 07:48 AM
Did Bill Clinton Call Obama Unpatriotic?

Standing next to Obama on stage at a campaign rally in southern Oregon, the retired Air Force chief of staff repeated Bill Clinton's comments aloud to a silent audience.

The former president told a group of veterans Friday in Charlotte, North Carolina: "I think it would be a great thing if we had an election year where you had two people who loved this country and were devoted to the interest of this country. And people could actually ask themselves who is right on these issues, instead of all this other stuff that always seems to intrude itself on our politics."

McPeak then said to his Oregon audience: "As one who for 37 years proudly wore the uniform of our country, I'm saddened to see a president employ these tactics. He of all people should know better because he was the target of exactly the same kind of tactics."

From here (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/03/22/politics/main3960032.shtml),

:hrmm:

pawnman
March 23rd, 2008, 05:00 PM
McPeak...a guy who was so universally reviled by the USAF personnel when he was in charge, it'll cost you a round of beers to mention his name in an Air Force bar.

If Clinton did call Obama unpatriotic, he's not wrong. But we can't discuss that, it'd be "racist". When you can't put your hand over your heart for the pledge, wear a flag pin, or believe that America did anything worthwhile prior to your candidacy (granted, that last one belongs to his wife, not him...but still, you don't live with someone for years and not pick that sort of thing up), you should probably keep your mouth shut in the realm of "patriotism".

Philosophia
March 23rd, 2008, 06:40 PM
If Clinton did call Obama unpatriotic, he's not wrong. But we can't discuss that, it'd be "racist". When you can't put your hand over your heart for the pledge, wear a flag pin, or believe that America did anything worthwhile prior to your candidacy (granted, that last one belongs to his wife, not him...but still, you don't live with someone for years and not pick that sort of thing up), you should probably keep your mouth shut in the realm of "patriotism".

How is Clinton right? How is Obama unpatriotic? Then again, I guess it depends on how one defines patriotism.

pawnman
March 24th, 2008, 12:08 AM
How is Clinton right? How is Obama unpatriotic? Then again, I guess it depends on how one defines patriotism.

Like I said...pledge, flag, pride in country. It was right there for the reading.

Gwyddyon
March 24th, 2008, 12:45 AM
I have a better question. Why should I care?

A politician said something about another politician. The second politician is twisting it to suit his own ends. This is definitely newsworthy. And people wonder why young people don't vote...

Philosophia
March 24th, 2008, 03:10 AM
Like I said...pledge, flag, pride in country. It was right there for the reading.

I know it was right there but how is Clinton right? Not putting your hand over your heart or not wearing a flag pin doesn't mean you aren't patriotic. Pride in your country is a complicated topic.

Rudas Starblaze
March 24th, 2008, 04:55 AM
wasnt clinton a draft dodger!? lol thats like the pot calling the kettle black.

pawnman
March 24th, 2008, 07:30 AM
I know it was right there but how is Clinton right? Not putting your hand over your heart or not wearing a flag pin doesn't mean you aren't patriotic. Pride in your country is a complicated topic.

Actions speak louder than words. I would think that a Presidential candidate would have enough pride to stand correctly during the Pledge of Allegience, or not to hold a news conference about not wearing a flag pin. The problem isn't that he's not wearing one...I don't wear one in my daily life, either, and I consider myself pretty patriotic. But to hold a press conference so that you can point it out to everyone "Look, all the other candidates are wearing flags, but not me!" strike me as...contrived at best.

As for pride in your country...His wife flat out said "I have never been proud of America in my adult life". She's only proud now because Obama has a shot at winning the nomination. Really, Michelle, in the last 40 years you can't think of one good thing the US has done?

Philosophia
March 24th, 2008, 08:41 AM
Actions speak louder than words. I would think that a Presidential candidate would have enough pride to stand correctly during the Pledge of Allegience, or not to hold a news conference about not wearing a flag pin. The problem isn't that he's not wearing one...I don't wear one in my daily life, either, and I consider myself pretty patriotic. But to hold a press conference so that you can point it out to everyone "Look, all the other candidates are wearing flags, but not me!" strike me as...contrived at best.

I agree with you to an extent. Though I disagree with the standing correctly during the Pledge of Allegiance (that doesn't bother me), its the flag wearing issue that does. Had any other candidate said anything previously about him not wearing a flag pin? I'm wondering why there was a need for a press conference.


As for pride in your country...His wife flat out said "I have never been proud of America in my adult life". She's only proud now because Obama has a shot at winning the nomination. Really, Michelle, in the last 40 years you can't think of one good thing the US has done?

I believe that was a stupid thing for her to say. But does that reflect what the husband believes?

pawnman
March 24th, 2008, 01:04 PM
I agree with you to an extent. Though I disagree with the standing correctly during the Pledge of Allegiance (that doesn't bother me), its the flag wearing issue that does. Had any other candidate said anything previously about him not wearing a flag pin? I'm wondering why there was a need for a press conference.



I believe that was a stupid thing for her to say. But does that reflect what the husband believes?

Can you live with someone every day for years and not be influenced by them?

Athena-Nadine
March 24th, 2008, 01:10 PM
Can you live with someone every day for years and not be influenced by them?
No, you cannot. To be fair, though, even people who are married for years and years and live with each other hold opinions and thoughts completely independent of their spouses--of course, I cannot say if that is the case in this instance.

Philosophia
March 24th, 2008, 06:53 PM
Can you live with someone every day for years and not be influenced by them?

Influenced, yes, but they do have their own opinions? I know my parents (who have been married for 35+ years) definitely have opinions that are their very own and not shared by their spouse.

David19
March 24th, 2008, 09:48 PM
Can you live with someone every day for years and not be influenced by them?

IMO, yes you can, for example, just 'cause someone's parents may be bigots, does that mean the child will be a bigot?.

A LGBT child can live with their parents calling gay people "fags", "sinful" and "disgusting", but that doesn't mean the child will share those views.

Sequoia
March 24th, 2008, 09:57 PM
Some people would rather put up a fuss about the pledge of allegiance, but not give a crap about actual ISSUES.

I don't care if he refused to wear a flag pin. It's a damn stupid pin. Who gives a crap?

The man has the best things to say about hope in this country, and I'll stand behind that before I stand behind some random sheeple who salutes his country with blinders on.

True patriotism includes questioning and does not have to be "politics as usual"... including something as meaningless as a lapel pin.

You may as well argue that a wife who doesn't always wear her wedding ring doesn't love you, and is de facto cheating on you... just because she doesn't wear a ring or walk around saying "JOE IS MY HUSBAND" at the top of her voice every ten minutes.