Hecate

[AradiaSupernova]

hiya :) I was wondering who Hecate's husband is or if she even has a husband. I've read lots of stuff about her but I cannot find anything about a constort for her. Anyone have any clue?

[Demeter]

Hecate was not associated with any god or titan as a consort.
She is part of the triad with Demeter and Persephone. Instead of being the crone in that trio, which most people assume she is, she is, in fact, the Maiden. Demeter is the crone, Persephone is the Mother (since she is married to Hades), and Hecate, as shown on various artworks, is the eternal Maiden -- in some myths She assisted Demeter in finding Persephone and then served as a handmaiden to Persephone and also her guide between the Underworld and the Upperworld.

http://www.hecate.org.uk/history.htm

[Twilight Garden]

Many people have differring views of Hekate. Even being a priestess of Hekate, I rarely hear of her having a sexual consort, though apparently she was very alluring. I always pair her with Zeus, since they both have a deep respect for each other. That is more important to me than who's sleeping with who. For a long time I didn't work with any male counterpart at all. She lead me to Zeus during a Ritual one night.

Studying a deity, learning through book knowledge, and working with a deity are two very different experiences.

This is just what I do. As I said before, there are many different opinions on Her.

[Myst]

Originally posted by LunarMist
Studying a deity, learning through book knowledge, and working with a deity are two very different experiences.

Bold and underline that, write it down, remember it!! :D So true!!

[AradiaSupernova]

thanks guys :) i know its 2 different things. I worked with Hecate during or Lughnasadh ritual, and thats after a lot of study and all that to make sure I knew what I was getting myself into, that and she's been calling me for a few years, and I was dense enough to not know which Goddess it was. I've always felt a strong pull to Perseus and Zeus..so..who knows :)

[Mnemosyne]

Originally posted by LunarMist
Studying a deity, learning through book knowledge, and working with a deity are two very different experiences.

This is just what I do. As I said before, there are many different opinions on Her.

Like Myst, I also believe strongly in this quote, LunaMist. I have studied the deities with whom I work, and I feel a bit closer to them, since I know them more. To be honest, I have studied deities from various pantheons. However, I do NOT have a relationship with them. Also, our relationships with the deities are all unique. What works for you may not neccesarily work for me. Basically, I am saying to follow your heart. Just because someone tells you something about a deity or has written something down, it does not mean that it is the only thing to believe.

[Eeluna]

I've read somewhere that Hecate and Hermes are closely linked and may even be lovers.

[Myst]

Originally posted by AradiaSupernova
i know its 2 different things. I worked with Hecate during or Lughnasadh ritual, and thats after a lot of study and all that to make sure I knew what I was getting myself into, that and she's been calling me for a few years, and I was dense enough to not know which Goddess it was.

Ok, remember this then - working with her once is nothing like inviting her into your life.

[AradiaSupernova]

I figured that, Myst. Thanks for the advice anyway. I realize I have a long way to go.

[Mnemosyne]

At least, you have already made those initial steps. Hey, you gotta start somewhere. :D

[AradiaSupernova]

*nod* very true :) "a journey of a thousand miles begins with 1 step"

[VelvetBlade]

Hecate

Worshiped in both Greece and Anatola, or ancient Turkey, the Dark
Goddess Hecate was related to the Goddess Hekat of the ancient Nubian
people, the black-skinned rulers and people of Egypt. Hekat, Oldest of
the Old, swam into water and walked on dry land. She was the magical
essence of Au Set, the Mighty Mother of Transformation, called Isis by
the Greeks.

Hecate was Goddess of the Amazons, the Greek name for the
Mother-worshipping nomadic tribes of women in North Africa, Anatolia,
and the area near the Black Sea. Led by Hecate, Commander of the
Mother's Words of Power, this fabled group of people once ruled over
large parts of Asia. They may have been the first people to tame
horses, and they were known for their physical and magical capacities to
wage war. The name Amazon probably meant "Moon Woman," and some
colonies of Amazons were said to live on women-only islands (such as
Taurus,
Lemnos, and Lesbos), consorting with males only when they wanted to
conceive children.

Hecate's images and Her magic cauldron were placed at threefold road
crossings. For centuries Her peoples invoked Her protection when they
traveled and left gifts at Her road shrines on nights of the Full Moon.
Her sacred hounds were said to by hymns to Her when she appeared.

Greeks associated their Hecate with both Persephone of the Underworld
and the dark side of the Goddess Artemis: when the waxing Huntress Moon
disappeared, the Crone energy of Hecate was said to take Her place.

The European Middle Ages diabolized Hecate as Queen of Ghosts and
Witches. Catholic authorities said midwives, who were Her wise women,
were most dangerous to the Christian faith.

We know of no Crone more ancient than Earth Herself, and some of the
relationship with the Great Wrinkled One is offered to us as we
ourselves age. Offerings of bread or caked can be make to the Queen of
the Crossroads for Her protection for travel. Figuratively, Hecate is
also Queen of Crossroads in mature living, in which choices are rarely
either-or, black or white, but of varied and subtle grays. Hekate helps
find kindliness in decision-making and let go of that which you must in
order to move on. She can be invoked during the waning or dark of the
moon with a bit of fur combed from a black dog.

The Woman Behind the Door of the Moon

On a dark Halloween night a long time ago the sea was deep and black
under the cape of the sky. The waves swelled shimmery green and crashed
on the shore. Then something else began to swell beneath the waters.
Thirteen silver fish boiled up to the surface of the sea and flipped
onto the land. The fish panted on the sand, and the moon slipped into
the sky from behind a cloud.

Then the thirteen silver fish changed to thirteen huge black dogs. The
dogs leapt at the moon and then began to run. They hurtled across the
beach and onto the road where they ran and ran until they came to the
place where the road crossed with two others.

And there at the road crossing, the dogs began to chase each other
clockwise under the light of the moon. Out of the blur of fur and black
came something else.

Not fish, not dogs. This time girls. Women. Mothers. Cousins.
Daughters. Nieces. Aunts. Grandmothers and granddaughters. Friends.
All of them dancing and stepping high under the moon.

“Hecate!” the people shouted. “Hecate!” they whispered. “Lady! Come to
us!” They tipped their heads back and called to the moon. Called to
the round white circle in the black velvet sky. “Mother! Hecate! Come
to us!”

A door opened. Up in the mono, a door opened. The people on the ground
below breathed. A ladder came out of the door. Rung after rung, it
slipped through the sky. Finally it reached the ground at the center of
the circle. While the people in the circle looked up, a figure emerged
from the door in the moon and began to climb down the ladder.

The figure came closer and closer. And the people in the circle below
began to see it was a Woman. Hooded and hunched. With a huge bag slung
over Her robes. Down, down She traveled, until finally She stood in the
center of her people.

With both gnarled hands She heaved the bag off Her shoulder. Then She
removed the hood from Her head. A little girl said, “You’re Here!”

The Old Woman’s face smiled. The moon lit the creases of Her skin and
the white mane of Her hair. She opened the bag.

Inside were all the wonders the women hungered for. She fed them from
Her bag and then closed it when they were full.

Then the Old Woman closed Her bag. And She climbed back into the sky.
She pulled up Her ladder. And She closed the door. The moon glowed.

The women below began to dance. Faster and faster they moved. A circle
of light. Whirling round and round. And then black. Furry and black.
Thirteen dogs, howling at the moon. Then running. Bounding and leaping
together. Away from the crossroads. Away down the road. Back across
the beach. Then panting at the edge of the sea. Panting and panting.
Panting silver fish. Thirteen silver fish on the sand.

Then a flinging of those fish bodies back into the sea. The sea deep
and dark under the cape of the sky. That’s how it was on a Halloween
night a long, long time ago.

Excerpt from The Storyteller’s Goddess By Carolyn McVickar Edwards


Charge of the Dark Goddess, Hecate

I am the Queen of Magick, hidden in the deepest night.
I am the mystery of the other world and the fear that coils about your
heart in the times of your trial.
I am the soul of nature that gives form to the Universe.
My torches light the way for enlightenment and illumination.
My sickle of death cuts away things that are dead and no longer needed.
It is I who awaits you at the end of your spiral dance.
I am She who has no secrets but a thousand secrets.
I am the aged Old Crone of Darkness who face of death portends life anew
and filled with Luna's secrets.
All acts of magick and mysteries are my rituals and my greatest ritual
is love itself.
You who seek to remove My veil and know My true face,
Know that all your questing and efforts are for not,
Until thy own face beholds and knows the mysteries of they own self.
For you to truly know Me, you must look in your own heart and know and
accept thy self.
For those of you who call upon Me and My powers for magick, beware!
For My magaick is swift and without regards to the consequences.
Those that know Me shall glide safely through troubles,
For it is My dark cloak of protection that is wrapped about you.
Close your eyes My child and call to me, for I am there, within your
Darkness.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Some say that Hecate is the daughter of Erebus and Nyx, while others
claim that she was born of the Titan Perses and the Star Goddess
Asteria, and yet others claim that she was born to Asteria and Zeus.

Zeus gave Hecate dominion over Heaven, Earth & Sea. Hecate is worshipped
as a Goddess of abundance. Later as a daughter of Zeus she became known
as the ruler of the Underworld & the Moon Goddess. The Greeks emphasized
Her darker aspects; as the Goddess of the Dead & Queen of Witches.

The Romans adopted Hecate, and she became an aspect of the moon Goddess,
Diana Triformus: Diana (the Full moon, associated with Earth),
Proserpina (the lunar phases, associated with Heaven), and Hecate (the
New moon, associated with the Underworld.)

Hecate Associations:

Death, intuitive wisdom, dreams, divination, witchcraft, transition,
guardian of child birth, spiritual guide, guardian of doorways, guardian
of gateways, guardian of cross roads, patron of sailors, fishers and
travellers, warriors, athletes, hunters and herders.

Sacred to Hecate:
All animals are sacred to Hecate.

Dogs:
The dog is closely associated with Hekate. She was sometimes addressed
as the 'Black she dog'.

Snakes:
In ancient Greece snakes were associated with the dead. Images of Hecate
show Her holding a snake.

Crossroads:
The Ancient Greeks would erect statues (hecataea) of Hekate Trevia
('Hekate of the Three Ways') at crossroads where three roads meet.

Sacred Times:
November 16; Night of Hecate.
In the Greek tradition Hecate in honoured annually on this date. She
protects the souls of the dead and those about to die. Her celebration
is held at midnight.

Hekate is traditionally worshipped on the eve of the New Moon.

The 30th of each month is also sacred to the dead. This was the time to
purify the house and to give offerings to Hecate.

Offerings:
Breads, eggs, cheese, garlic, cake and honey. In Ancient Greece none of
the household would touch the food that was offered to the Goddess.

Hecate Correspondences:

Herbs:
Aconite, almond, black poplar, lavender, myrrh, yew, belladonna,
cardamon, cyclamen, cypress, dandelion, date palm, garlic, hazel,
hellebore, hemlock, mandrake, mint, mugwort, oak, willow.

Poison:
Yew, belladonna, hemlock, mandrake, monkshood, wolfsbane, and opium
poppy.

Candle Colors:
Purple:
Power, success, justice, wisdom, independence, financial rewards,
spirituality, meditation, mysticism, guidance, and divination. This
color works well with Neptune energy.

Black:
Use in rituals to induce a deep meditative state, banishing of evil or
negativity influences, powers of absorption, restriction, wisdom,
control, resilience, discipline, and rituals dedicated to the Crone.
This color works well with Saturn energy.

Silver:
Moon Magick, Lunar Deities, removes negativity, encourages stability,
and assists in the development of psychic abilities. This color works
well under the astrological sign of Cancer.

Crystals:
Hematite:
Grounding, focus, self discipline, and absorbs negativity and assists
with optimism and courage.

Smoky Quartz:
Neutralizes negative influences, assists with positive change, grounding
and balancing.

Moonstone:
Intuition, psychic abilities, empathy, and new beginnings.

Quartz Crystal:
Psychic awareness and amplification of psychic abilities. Elimination of
irrational fear.

Goddess of the Moon

Hecate is a triple Goddess; it is in this triple aspect she is described
as a Goddess of the Moon. She was seen in all three phases of the moon
and especially the dark moon.

The Dark Moon (Moon is 315-360 degrees ahead of the sun) is another good
time to perform moon rituals involving the Goddess Hecate.

When the moon rises at 3:00 AM and sets at mid-afternoon, 10:00 AM is
the peak time the dark moon.

When the moon is 10 1/2 to 14 days after the full moon. Workings should
focus on:
Removing negative energies
Break bad habits
Reversing bad luck
Weight loss
Ending Addictions
Divorce
Banishing Enemies
Separation
Stopping theft
Justice

Hecate Incense
bay leaves
honeysuckle flowers
myrrh resin or frankincense resin
mint
thyme
Rosemary
cedar wood (optional)
5-10 drops cypress oil

Hecate Oil Myrrh
Cypress
Cedarwood oil (optional)
Mix the essential oil in a base of almond oil or olive oil

[Theres]

Hekate's association with the dark side of Artemis is one that is vital, and yet to often overlooked.

however Her association with the Amazons is one that i can only find in modern interpretations (probably based on Her worship within the area of Samothrace), and is not one that i can find any connection to in antiquity.
this isn't surprising though, as there are alot of myths regarding Hekate that have little real foundation in Greek history. many of these are actually founded upon associations made by the Romans, and later demonized in Christianity. same name, but a very much different archetype.

interesting article though, and thank you. i'm adding it to my collection.

[Aidron]

Very complete info, though I have never seen actual color correspondences for her. How fitting that they happen to me by three favorite colors, since she is one of my two patron deities.

I myself have never associated Hecate as having a consort, and as a goddess of endless possibilities. She has a dark side, she can be looked upon as the maiden, mother, and crone, or one of the three.

Apollo being my other patron deity, does not in my mind make him her consort, but they do tend to blend well for me and provide a unique balance. Hecate being a dark (not necessarily negative or evil) deity, Apollo a deity of light. Hecate contains the mysteries of magick and is a stern protectress. Apollo's healing energies and wisdom compliment that nicely, so forth and so on.

Hecate is probably one of the most complex deities around and there is much information surrounding her.

[SylverStar]

Thanks for the info. Hecate as been of intrest to me lately. And I find that she is a dark aspect of Artemis quite useful. Thanks.

[Theres]

Hecate is probably one of the most complex deities around and there is much information surrounding her.

i agree, and i see Her as one of the most complete Goddesses i have ever known.
but alot of the information floating around regarding Her is 'iffy' at best, and i keep a large grain of salt next to my monitor when surfing sites about Hekate.
the fact is that in antiquity there really wasn't alot of information about Her.

von Rudloff delves deeply into the few actual facts left to us by the Greeks in this synopsis (http://www.islandnet.com/~hornowl/HekateArticle.html) of his book.

[SylverStar]

You guys are so much better at finding useful information on the internet then I am. Thank you so much for being so generous with it.

[Theres]

hey, it's Hekate... it's what i do! ;)
but i think when stuff like this is known it should be shared.

[Aidron]

i agree, and i see Her as one of the most complete Goddesses i have ever known.
but alot of the information floating around regarding Her is 'iffy' at best, and i keep a large grain of salt next to my monitor when surfing sites about Hekate.
the fact is that in antiquity there really wasn't alot of information about Her.

von Rudloff delves deeply into the few actual facts left to us by the Greeks in this synopsis (http://www.islandnet.com/~hornowl/HekateArticle.html) of his book.


I dislike facts about mythology for the most part. True, you should take things with a grain of salt, but when it comes to mythology and especially divinity, I believe everyone should feel free to believe as they wish, for if belief can create change through spellwork, so can it affect our entire universe.

If someone wishes to pronounce Hecate as He-Kate or He-CA-Tee, it matters not to me, or if they even wish to see her as the maiden, instead of the maiden, mother, and crone, whatever seems most appropriate for them I am all for.

My approach in everything has always been self-discovery combined with research. What I find out in meditations and by mere intuition I most often stick to more than anything else, even if I cannot find one person out of a billion that agrees with it.

[Theres]

true, to an extent.

but when everything is made SO malleable, SO politically correct in order to appeal to everyone's requirements, it ends up becoming meaningless. otherwise what makes Hekate different than Brigid?
we're talking about various aspects of Deity, and i think it is more appropriate for us to bend to Them than to try and mold them to us, especially when their stories date back so very long.

these are the Gods of the ancients. i think we owe them something.
if not, then one could just make up their own pantheon to suit their personal needs...

"There's something bigger than Phil!" ~ Mel Brooks, The 2000 Year Old Man

[Rain Gnosis]

Everyone *is* free to believe what they wish. There needn't be adherence to one way or the other - to historical knowledge over personal beliefs or personal beliefs to the exclusion of historical research. As someone said on another forum - 'if you like steak, great. if you like hot dogs, great. just don't try to tell me hot dogs are steak'.

[TYRRHENUS]

Cheers Rain Gnosis!

All cultures and individuals have and will continue to interpret the Gods through their own value system, norms and mores. Importing what they find important and ignoring what they do not need.

"These divine distinctions may be awarded not to possession of immortality, but to human virtues." - Cicero, The Nature of the Gods

[Theres]

"You talk to me, as if from a distance,
And i reply with impressions chosen from another time..."
~ Brian Eno

[Athena-Nadine]

WARNING: This is a rant and it is not directed at anyone in particular. These are my own personal beliefs.

DISCLAIMER: EVERY SINGLE INSTANCE WHERE I USE THE WORD "YOU" IS MEANT GENERALLY.

Yes, everyone has a right to believe whatever they wish to believe. I'm all for following what's in your heart. Otherwise, I wouldn't be on the journey I'm on right now. :)

However, the gods are Who They Are. Personality traits and attributes They do not have should not be ascribed to Them, and those that They do have should not be ignored just because you don't like them. There are more than enough gods and goddesses in the universe that this should not be necessary. If you can't find what you need or want in the gods you choose, there is no reason you cannot find others, and there is no reason you cannot make up your own Who will suit your needs. Why must my gods, Whom have been Who They Are, and Whom people have been content with for thousands of years change for you?

Now I know very well that this has more than likely angered more than one of you since it is not the popular opinion around here, and I respect that. Flame me for them if you like, but keep in this in mind: if you are entitled to believe and feel however you like, so am I. :)

[nomadicdragon]

It seems to me that belief is personal. There is no right or wrong way to worship. the god and goddess.. or gods. or whatever... they meet you in the middle of whatever path you are travelling and show you the path you are to continue on. They appear in different forms and ways to different individuals, because as humans we all perceive things differently. Simply because they manifest in one way to me and in another way to another person does not mean it is a different diety. gods are amazing, they cannot be placed into little boxes and books and set in stone like humans want to believe. just my thoughts.

[Theres]

Hail Generica, Goddess of my current whim!

[TYRRHENUS]

Hail Generica, Goddess of my current whim!
*uncontrollable laughs*

I call my sister Carrie.
My dad calls her sweetie.
Someday (maybe) someone will call her mom.
The cashier at the grocery store calls her mam.
We all know something different about her, and none of us know everything about her.

[Phoenix Blue]

It seems to me that belief is personal. There is no right or wrong way to worship. the god and goddess.. or gods. or whatever... they meet you in the middle of whatever path you are travelling and show you the path you are to continue on. They appear in different forms and ways to different individuals, because as humans we all perceive things differently. Simply because they manifest in one way to me and in another way to another person does not mean it is a different diety. gods are amazing, they cannot be placed into little boxes and books and set in stone like humans want to believe. just my thoughts.
All well and good. . . but if you're going to "believe whatever you want," please don't trample over the mythology and beliefs of an existing culture by calling it something it isn't.

[Rain Gnosis]

All well and good. . . but if you're going to "believe whatever you want," please don't trample over the mythology and beliefs of an existing culture by calling it something it isn't.

I'm confused.. how can someone call beliefs or myths of an existing culture a name it isn't?

[Phoenix Blue]

Example: "Hekate is such a nice fluffy white light goddess!"

**Shrugs** Guess I was a bit vague in my original post. I was restating Nallia's point that Gods should not be associated with traits that do not belong to them.

[Rain Gnosis]

But what if Hekate *does* appear to me as a fluffy white light Goddess?

Or a Goddess appears to me that is fluffy white light and says her name is Hekate?

[Theres]

But what if Hekate *does* appear to me as a fluffy white light Goddess?

Or a Goddess appears to me that is fluffy white light and says her name is Hekate?

separating external input from an internally projected vision is always difficult. and yet it is vital to do this is one is to gain anything from the meditation, etc.
in the above example i'd say these two have been confused.

[nomadicdragon]

All well and good. . . but if you're going to "believe whatever you want," please don't trample over the mythology and beliefs of an existing culture by calling it something it isn't.

I would not assume to call an existing culture something that it is not. beliefs to me are very personal, i tend to share only when asked. I would not impose my thoughts and beliefs on others. and respect others views.. all that I ask is for the same amount of respect... but I think that at the end of the day it all boils down to words... words mean nothing.. it is what you believe in and see that is important

[Rain Gnosis]

separating external input from an internally projected vision is always difficult. and yet it is vital to do this is one is to gain anything from the meditation, etc.
in the above example i'd say these two have been confused.

You would, but how would one know? Especially someone who quite feasibly is a beginner? And how can you be sure? And even with that assumption, does it really matter? Why does it?

(sort of playing the devil's advocate here and sort of not)

[Ceallach]

I have no valuable input whatsoever, but must say I am quite enjoying the discussion. Keep it going!

[Athena-Nadine]

I don’t know if I’m going to do very well answering this today with all the other things going on in my head, but I’ll give it a shot. :)


You would, but how would one know? Especially someone who quite feasibly is a beginner? And how can you be sure?

This is a problem. Now, I am not Wiccan, and I never have been. I’ve studied it for a few years now, just because I love learning, but it never has been for me. However, the majority of my Pagan friends are Wiccan, at various levels of knowledge, and we have had many conversations about these very questions over the last three years. What I have come to notice is a growing lack of discipline among the newer practitioners of the Wiccan faith. Because of this, there is a HUGE amount of misinformation being circulated and taken as fact. The all-too-common assumptions that everyone believes all the gods are One, or facets, or archetypes, are perfect examples of this. Too many people don’t realize that this is a relatively new concept in Wicca, and assume that this is the way it is, and the way it’s always been.

Even more than the misinformation that is everywhere, there is a growing trend toward “do whatever you want,” and a growing lack of personal responsibility. Understand something—I am not going to presume to tell people that their experiences are invalid. However, I see too many people, these days, giving too much credence to things that are probably nothing more than their imaginations at work. Not enough people are actually taking the time to learn the mental disciplines required to differentiate, and too many people are putting their faith in every single tiny little fancy that goes through their heads without any discernment at all.


And even with that assumption, does it really matter? Why does it?

Yes, it matters. It matters because more and more bad information is being circulated, by more and more people who don’t know any better, to more and more people who can’t tell the difference. Too often, it’s become an issue of the blind leading the blind.

Of course, someone is going to tell me that I shouldn’t care about what others think, that my own path is all that matters. Yes and no. My path is most important to me, this is true. As such, my gods and the culture of my religion come first. Too many people are learning what they think they know by word-of-mouth, without ever opening a history book, and spouting it as truth. By doing so, they are spreading misinformation about my gods and the culture They came from, which are the center of my religion. When that happens, it becomes my problem. I find it very disrespectful to my religion, and to my gods, to have the majority of Their attributes and culture completely disregarded. So yes, to me, and to many, many others, including many Wiccans, it does matter.

The gods in question have served in the same roles for hundreds, thousands of years. They must have done so with good reason. Even the Romans didn't presume to try to change the nature of the Greek gods. They gave Them Their own names, initially taking a lot from the Greek gods, but ultimately, They were completely different gods, and not interchangeable, regardless of what some would like to think. If someone wants to believe in a goddess Who does nothing but give him/her wisdom, have at it, but don't call Her Athene, when Wisdom is only a miniscule part of Who She is.


(sort of playing the devil's advocate here and sort of not)

*…smiles…* Good thing, too. I always appreciate being made to think, though I don’t know how much sense that whole ramble made. :)

[Rain Gnosis]

By doing so, they are spreading misinformation about my gods and the culture They came from, which are the center of my religion. When that happens, it becomes my problem. I find it very disrespectful to my religion, and to my gods, to have the majority of Their attributes and culture completely disregarded.

Yes your ramble made sense, it was basically what I would've said if I'd taken that side in this discussion. The concept is something that's been working through my head in the past couple days, which is why I kind of took the role of devil's advocate here. Part of me agrees with you wholeheartedly (and honestly, you gave the exact answer I would've - some people aren't really clear on *why* it bugs them, which makes me think some just want to complain rather then having a real reason).

I've said before, no it doesn't matter to me who someone works with in their circle when it comes down to it, and yet I don't like spreading of misinformation. In my case, I considered myself Wiccan for the first couple years I was Pagan, and then a few months ago I realized I had no clue what Wicca was really about! I had read a ton of books, I followed the rede (thinking it was a rigid law rather then a guideline though), I did the sabbats, etc. But then, I don't think I really was Wiccan - I was going through motions I'd read about in books by SRW, Cunningham, etc. but I had no clue about trad Wicca or what Wicca was in the beginning. This isn't to say trad Wicca is the only "right" Wicca or anything of the sort, it is to say that the information that there was a traditional Wicca and that Wicca began quite differently then what we know now wasn't there for me, and I feel like I lost out. I wish someone had recommended books by Gardner, Valiente, Crowley, the Farrars, Buckland, etc. back then because that's the Wicca that really resonates with me.

As to Kemeticism - there are a whole lot of people worshipping Isis out there without even realizing Isis is a graecoroman interpretation of the Egyptian Goddess, Aset. When someone says Isis, do they realize in Ancient Egypt yes Aset was the mother of Heru - but also that she was clever and even vicious at times? Do they really know her? I don't think so. At the same time, if they call on Isis and Aset appears to them (as she did appear to me before I was Kemetic) who am I to say otherwise? One of the Kemetics I most respect works with Isis *and* Aset, and I think that's great. At the same time, if someone asks for Ancient Egyptian info and someone says "oh here's a great site about Isis" I'll definitely speak up and say "by the way, here's some info that is historically accurate".

I dunno, I guess I'm just trying to figure out when it's reasonable to tell people not to use this name or that name, and when it's not. I think many people either go to the extreme of not knowing there's any difference between personal gnosis and historical accuracy or being anally retentive about history and people being historically accurate.

Hell I've been on both ends of that spectrum :) To be honest with you, recently I've been realizing that I am too judgmental and at times it makes me insensitive, so I'm trying to work out for myself when being judgmental is appropriate and when it's just not useful. Sometimes I play devil's advocate to see where others are on the spectrum - so I can try to fully understand the opposite side of the story. So, I'll stop rambling now. :)

[CalliopeHellice]

I think the biggest problem with the God/Goddess mis-identification is the number of "new age" "insta-witch" "overview" books that are available. Too many people read, say, SRW and learn about Diana (for example) as a Virgin Moon Goddess, but fail to go past that. Rather than read mythology books, Homer, Xenophon, etc etc to learn about Diana (and Her Greek equivalent, Artemis), they stick to "Diana the virgin moon goddess" and learn nothing else.

"newbies" (and even people who've studied for a while) have to poke their head out of the new age sand (ie. Chapters' occult and new age section) and venture out into the great and vast History, Religion and mythology sections of the library and bookstores.

of course, that's only my humble opinion....

[windandflame]

is there any equivalent deities in Celtic or Roman pantheons?

[TYRRHENUS]

is there any equivalent deities in Celtic or Roman pantheons?
I can't tell you about the Celtic. In the Roman tradition there is a Goddess called Trivia... a concatenation of two words, tri (three) and via(road). Hence, three roads.

(The Romans used to post their news at the intersections in order to spread news more swiftly, so no, she is not the God-form of useless information.)
She was worshipped at the crossroads, much like Hecate.

The quote from Cicero I posted here earlier was from a discussion which took place 2,100 years ago on the differences between the Greek Hecate and the Roman Trivia. It seems the Greeks and Romans came to the conclusion that they were the same Goddess, but could not agree on her origins. So we can only assume that she is some ancient Indo-European God-form, hidden in the unconscious minds of different Mediterranean peoples.

[Theres]

Trivia is actually a chthonic aspect of Hecate. Her Greek counterpart is Triodite ("of the three-ways").
Hekate has many names and titles (as do most Greek God/desses).

i've been working on a Samhain ritual for our group which involves three different Hekates (actually three aspects of the one Goddess), and Trivia is one of them.

[TYRRHENUS]

Trivia is actually a chthonic aspect of Hecate.Ah! But the Romans only recognize one aspect of Trivia. Just curious Greenman, do you agree with the earlier post about Hecate/Trivia being a Goddess older than Greeks and Romans?
If so, did the 'original' have three aspects? Because that sounds so Greek. I mean the Greeks were the ones who came up with the concept of the Holy Trinity.
If not, and you are one of those who believe that the Romans 'borrowed' Hecate from the Greeks, what did the Romans do with the other two aspects?
Will you share this Samhain ritual with us? I want to see how you work this out.
This is the thread that won't die. Good stuff.

[Theres]

Ah! But the Romans only recognize one aspect of Trivia. Just curious Greenman, do you agree with the earlier post about Hecate/Trivia being a Goddess older than Greeks and Romans?
If so, did the 'original' have three aspects? Because that sounds so Greek. I mean the Greeks were the ones who came up with the concept of the Holy Trinity.
If not, and you are one of those who believe that the Romans 'borrowed' Hecate from the Greeks, what did the Romans do with the other two aspects?
Will you share this Samhain ritual with us? I want to see how you work this out.
This is the thread that won't die. Good stuff.

yes, interesting stuff indeed!

it's hard to say exactly how old Hekate is. there are those who believe She was derived from Heq of Egypt. i'm not sure about that, but there are certainly similarities.
the earliest Greek writings have Her as a Titan, or descendant of the Titans, but Zeus so admired Her that He gave Her an honored place at Olympus. He also granted Hekate the realms of Earth, Sea and Sky, a gift that was unprecedented! in this way She was (even in ancient times) a legitimate 'Triple Goddess'.
however there is very little written about Her from the sparse texts of c. 750BCE until the Hellenic period 400 years later (post Alexander). but Her worship was limited to a guardian or apotropaic role in most areas of the Greek world, with the exceptions being Samothrace and Lagina (in Asia Minor), and of course Her involvment with the initiation mysteries at Eleusis.

this changes quite a bit when we get into the Roman world. by this time it seems we see Her more and more in the strictly chthonic role, which would evolve into the 'Goddess of the Witches' label that has stuck ever since.
i think a big part of this was ther expansion by the later Greeks, and even moreso by the Romans, into areas outside of the traditional Mediterranian trade world... areas around the Black Sea, and deeper parts of Africa. these are places that had a more shamanistic religious practice than most of the classical world, and this was adapted into the religions of the day.

and then there are the Chaldean Oracles, in which She is seen as 'Soteira' (savior), and was considered the 'World Soul'.
this is an area i have only studied peripherally, but so far i'm having a hard time seeing it as anything other than a rather awkward extrapolation of the earlier myths, and not so much of a natural evolution (words are failing me here... sorry).

it's hard to say which is the 'legitimate' version, or if that really matters. after all, if we jump up another 2000 years, She is suddenly 'Maiden, Mother, Crone', an association that the Greeks AND Romans would find strange i'm sure. but it may be just as legit.
the only thing that irks me is when someone tries to blend them all into one great mush. i think all the versions suffer from this kind of rampant eclecticism.

in my ritual i am deliberately avoiding the MMC association, while trying very hard not to squash it for those who wish to see Her in that way. after all, i am Wiccan, so the MMC connection means alot to me. but i am also an avid historian, and i try to keep things straight whenever i see the lines blurring to much.

as for posting the ritual... i'm not sure. i'll have to see how it goes first.

[Theres]

OOOPS!
would a mod please delete this post... i hit the wrong button when editting my atrocious spelling above.

[Ceallach]

*crosses fingers in hope* I hope your ritual goes well, Greenman and that you consider sharing it with us. I would Love to read it.

Keep up the thread.. I'm learning more than I thought I would!

Bright Blessings,

[Kadynas]

WOW! Angelwitch, where did you get all of that? Was it on one site or did you compile it from several? I'd like to find something like that on Athena... :)

[Mnemosyne]

Thanks for all that historical info on Hekate, Greenman. I never knew how rich Hekate's history was until I read your post. For example, I didn't even know about her mentioning in the Chaldean Oracles. Well, I went searching for more info on Hekate throughout history and found this site. Pretty interesting- some of the points Greenman has all ready mentioned.

http://www.islandnet.com/~hornowl/HekateArticle.html

[Theres]

yeah, i like that article Mnemosyne.
i think that one section called 'Seeing Beyond Medea' really helps to dispel alot of the misconceptions about Her.

[Mau]

http://pages.ivillage.com/sondaughter_hecate/sonsanddaughtersofhecate/id15.html


A page from The sons and daughters of Hecate website. Some pretty interesting information.
And I'd like to thank you all for the mass inputon this thread..it has helped me, personally, quite a bit!

[Theres]

And I'd like to thank you all for the mass inputon this thread..it has helped me, personally, quite a bit!

i thought it might, from your query in the other thread.
in fact, i was wondering if you'd come to this conclusion. but i didn't want to influence your journey of exploration by suggesting Hekate there, when it may be something else entirely.

She sure sounds appropriate though, doesn't She? :)

[Mau]

i thought it might, from your query in the other thread.
in fact, i was wondering if you'd come to this conclusion. but i didn't want to influence your journey of exploration by suggesting Hekate there, when it may be something else entirely.

She sure sounds appropriate though, doesn't She? :)


She very much does. It's through my own fault that I didn't think of her as a possibility earlier..while searching around through various Goddesses, I blew right past her. And I had seen this thread before..and ignored it..for some reason earlier, I just had an urge to click it and start reading. I'm glad I did ;)