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Sequoia
March 25th, 2008, 11:58 PM
She spoke, for example, of how a welcoming ceremony had to be abandoned as sniper fire forced members of her official party to run for their lives.

"I remember landing under sniper fire," she said.

"There was supposed to be some kind of a greeting ceremony at the airport but instead we just ran with our heads down to get into the vehicles to get to our base.

"But it was a moment of great pride for me."

Unfortunately for Senator Clinton plenty of television footage has survived, showing the actual circumstances of her arrival, which were very different.

She smiled and waved as she left her aircraft and then strolled across the airport tarmac to greet a little girl who read her a poem.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7313885.stm

I don't see why people are still supporting her. When we have actual troops under actual fire, and she's making up shit to seem glorified...

Laisrean
March 26th, 2008, 12:06 AM
Lol, yeah. She made it seem like her and Chelsea were like WW1 soldiers battling their way across no-man's land with artillery and machine gun fire all around them. It's a miracle they came through that alive. 8O

Sequoia
March 26th, 2008, 12:08 AM
Lol, yeah. She made it seem like her and Chelsea were like WW1 soldiers battling their way across no-man's land with artillery and machine gun fire all around them. It's a miracle they came through that alive. 8O

I know, she's so brave. She withstood a little girl's poem and a cheering crowd.

Boy do I want the liar answering that 3am call, and telling us everything's fine when half of the US is on fire or something.

Jeremy Westenn
March 26th, 2008, 12:09 AM
Seriously, I imagine she was warned of possible sniper fire before getting off the plane but do you know how many trips this woman has made in her lifetime? How many times she's been breifed about possible security risks? The notion that she just confused trips or just misspoke, miss-remembered after nearly a decade+ later is much more plausible to me then just flat out lying and embelishing when you have to be sane enough to understand that she's probably smart enough to know there is video somewhere and more people that participated there that could contradict her then just herself.

I'd like to imagine most people have the benefit of sanity and doubt, but I throw the ball in her field on this one and believe she just made an embarrasing boo boo.

P.S. She's gaining momentum Obamabots, I can't wait for her to squash him in all the upcoming primaries. :)

TheWomanMonster
March 26th, 2008, 12:10 AM
She's going to win....

Jeremy Westenn
March 26th, 2008, 12:13 AM
She's going to win....

I hope so. :)

Djiril
March 26th, 2008, 12:17 AM
Seriously, I imagine she was warned of possible sniper fire before getting off the plane but do you know how many trips this woman has made in her lifetime? How many times she's been breifed about possible security risks? The notion that she just confused trips or just misspoke, miss-remembered after nearly a decade+ later is much more plausible to me then just flat out lying and embelishing when you have to be sane enough to understand that she's probably smart enough to know there is video somewhere and more people that participated there that could contradict her then just herself.

I'd like to imagine most people have the benefit of sanity and doubt, but I throw the ball in her field on this one and believe she just made an embarrasing boo boo.

P.S. She's gaining momentum Obamabots, I can't wait for her to squash him in all the upcoming primaries. :)
I'd like to give her the benefit of the doubt, though I'm not ruling out the possibility that it was a just a really dumb lie/embellishment on her part.
Either way, it's not enough to make me dislike her and I won't be shedding any tears if she becomes our next president.
That said, I voted for Obama in the primary and the more this kind of thing unfolds, the more I think I made the right choice.

TheWomanMonster
March 26th, 2008, 12:17 AM
I hope so. :)

Her husband was decent, I wouldn't mind living next door to Clinton Country again.
LOL.

Jeremy Westenn
March 26th, 2008, 12:21 AM
I'd like to give her the benefit of the doubt, though I'm not ruling out the possibility that it was a just a really dumb lie/embellishment on her part.
Either way, it's not enough to make me dislike her and I won't be shedding any tears if she becomes our next president.
That said, I voted for Obama in the primary and the more this kind of thing unfolds, the more I think I made the right choice.

Likewise about Obama, if he's the nominee I am his number one supporter. However, I caucused here for Hillary.

Philosophia
March 26th, 2008, 01:38 AM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7313885.stm
I don't see why people are still supporting her. When we have actual troops under actual fire, and she's making up shit to seem glorified...

:lol: I love it! This is the same kind of crap thats probably going to end up destroying her chances.

Jeremy Westenn
March 26th, 2008, 01:47 AM
:lol: I love it! This is the same kind of crap thats probably going to end up destroying her chances.

Yes, like associating and not distancing yourself with a crazy pastor, publicly refusing to wear a flag pin for good reasons but reasons that will be used with much success against you in the general election, having a wife who says stupid things that will contribute to painting you as unpatriotic, and let's not forget that while doing this you have absolutely NO experience and are running as a candidate of judgement only to have shown some pretty poor judgement.

Clinton> Obama, by yards, and yards.

Rudas Starblaze
March 26th, 2008, 01:54 AM
shes a clinton..... shouldnt have everyone figured that out with the first one????

Philosophia
March 26th, 2008, 02:18 AM
Yes, like associating and not distancing yourself with a crazy pastor, publicly refusing to wear a flag pin for good reasons but reasons that will be used with much success against you in the general election, having a wife who says stupid things that will contribute to painting you as unpatriotic, and let's not forget that while doing this you have absolutely NO experience and are running as a candidate of judgement only to have shown some pretty poor judgement.

Clinton> Obama, by yards, and yards.

Thats your opinion. For me, those reasons you gave are pretty piss poor to be held against Obama. BTW, Hilary's husband has also said a lot of crap as well and strangely enough thats remains silent. Hilary's ability to govern should also be scrutinized as should her voting record.

This is a good page that goes into the research on either side:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/2/20/201332/807/36/458633

Jeremy Westenn
March 26th, 2008, 02:42 AM
I'm not taking anything from the Obama cluster **** that is the dailykos. The fact of the matter is that Obama will be chewed up and spat out by a Republican attack machine that has no morals, just like John Kerry and Max Cleveland have, and if you don't think that that Jeremiah Wright isn't going to be on a 527 ad come General Election your fooling yourself.

As for her voting record, I like her voting record. The fact that she has legislative accomplishments means a lot to me especially considering Obama has none. And Bill Clinton hasn't said anything thus far which wasn't true, this is just silly now. Hell, what Geraldine Ferraro said was truthful to, if you want to be completely honest.

Clinton= 35 years of experience, fighting for children and families, fighting for soldiers, fighting for the economy, for healthcare long before anyone fought for it.

Obama= Someone who has essentially no experience, wants to be elected as President of the United States in war time when he has no foreign policy experience, runs off nothing but speeches, promises, no legislative accomplishments, and so far as a candidate of judgmenet has shown tremendously poor judgement. And I forgot to mention the wink, wink, nudge, nudge to the Canadian goverment over the NAFTA thing.

Rudas Starblaze
March 26th, 2008, 02:47 AM
wait! the clintons are from arkansas right? shouldnt the title be....

"clinton lies through her tooth"

i had to! lmao:rotfl:

honestly, i dont want any of the candidates to be elected, they all suck.

la tortuga
March 26th, 2008, 03:21 AM
wait! the clintons are from arkansas right? shouldnt the title be....

"clinton lies through her tooth"

i had to! lmao:rotfl:

honestly, i dont want any of the candidates to be elected, they all suck.

I second that motion!

(teehee on the tooth thing XD)

Philosophia
March 26th, 2008, 03:34 AM
I'm not taking anything from the Obama cluster hug that is the dailykos.

Thats your choice. I thought maybe some facts might help....


The fact of the matter is that Obama will be chewed up and spat out by a Republican attack machine that has no morals, just like John Kerry and Max Cleveland have, and if you don't think that that Jeremiah Wright isn't going to be on a 527 ad come General Election your fooling yourself.

Any candidate from any political party will be chewed up and spat out. That is how politics works.


As for her voting record, I like her voting record. The fact that she has legislative accomplishments means a lot to me especially considering Obama has none.

Are you sure he has no legislative accomplishments?

http://finepolitics.blogspot.com/2008/01/obama-accomplishments-more-substantial.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bob-geiger/to-those-who-question-oba_b_87970.html
http://wizbangblue.com/2008/01/13/obamas-illinois-record-of-accomplishments-and-working-with-the-other-side.php

Or you can go here (http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery) and read Obama's accomplisments.


And Bill Clinton hasn't said anything thus far which wasn't true, this is just silly now. Hell, what Geraldine Ferraro said was truthful to, if you want to be completely honest.

That is your opinion. I think both have only sprouted uninformed opinions that have done nothing but harm Hilary's campaign. Neither have been honest or truthful in either opinions.


Clinton= 35 years of experience, fighting for children and families, fighting for soldiers, fighting for the economy, for healthcare long before anyone fought for it.

She was a senator for 35 years?


Obama= Someone who has essentially no experience, wants to be elected as President of the United States in war time when he has no foreign policy experience, runs off nothing but speeches, promises, no legislative accomplishments, and so far as a candidate of judgmenet has shown tremendously poor judgement.

You do realize that all of those points could be equally directed at Hilary, especially about having very poor judgment. I think the OP kinda proves that. :smile:


And I forgot to mention the wink, wink, nudge, nudge to the Canadian government over the NAFTA thing.

Both sides, from Obama camp and Canadian ambassador, have both denied this and have claimed it was part of a smear campaign. Maybe Clinton should look at her own side first...

From here (http://news.yahoo.com/s/thenation/20080325/cm_thenation/45302402):


Maybe they did, but it was Clinton who claimed that she opposed NAFTA from the beginning when White House records indicate she was lobbying on its behalf.

Or http://www.thenation.com/blogs/thebeat?bid=1&pid=302252

Cassie
March 26th, 2008, 05:37 AM
It's 3AM...
Your children are sleeping comfortably.
In The White House a phone is ringing...
Somewhere in the world there is a major crisis...
Who do you want to answer that call???

Someone who fantasizes about being under fire in a war zone?

Seriously, I started out as a Clinton supporter but I have been quite disappointed by both her and her husband during the campaign. Obama, on the other hand, seems more impressive as time goes on.
I think and I hope that this latest gaffe will play into Obama's hands. But either way, I hope for the world's sake we have a democrat in the White House next year.

pawnman
March 26th, 2008, 08:13 AM
http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/4619/artclintonbosniaapfilecg4.th.jpg (http://img143.imageshack.us/my.php?image=artclintonbosniaapfilecg4.jpg)

Here she is running for her life.

Jeremy Westenn
March 26th, 2008, 10:13 AM
Thats your choice. I thought maybe some facts might help....



Any candidate from any political party will be chewed up and spat out. That is how politics works.



Are you sure he has no legislative accomplishments?

http://finepolitics.blogspot.com/2008/01/obama-accomplishments-more-substantial.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bob-geiger/to-those-who-question-oba_b_87970.html
http://wizbangblue.com/2008/01/13/obamas-illinois-record-of-accomplishments-and-working-with-the-other-side.php

Or you can go here (http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery) and read Obama's accomplisments.



That is your opinion. I think both have only sprouted uninformed opinions that have done nothing but harm Hilary's campaign. Neither have been honest or truthful in either opinions.



She was a senator for 35 years?



You do realize that all of those points could be equally directed at Hilary, especially about having very poor judgment. I think the OP kinda proves that. :smile:



Both sides, from Obama camp and Canadian ambassador, have both denied this and have claimed it was part of a smear campaign. Maybe Clinton should look at her own side first...

From here (http://news.yahoo.com/s/thenation/20080325/cm_thenation/45302402):



Or http://www.thenation.com/blogs/thebeat?bid=1&pid=302252

Let us end this conversation nicely with a /rawr at each other.

RAWR!!

Silverfire Darkmoon
March 26th, 2008, 10:38 AM
It matters not which one of us you vote for. Either way, your planet is doomed! DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMED!
http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/thumb/c/c9/200px-Homer_Dole_Clinton.png

David19
March 26th, 2008, 02:47 PM
wait! the clintons are from arkansas right? shouldnt the title be....

"clinton lies through her tooth"

i had to! lmao:rotfl:

:lol:.


honestly, i dont want any of the candidates to be elected, they all suck.

Very true.

Laisrean
March 26th, 2008, 02:59 PM
Maybe the Dems should nominate Ralph Nader instead. Not only would that solve this conflict between Hilary and Obama, but also it would mean they wouldn't have to worry about him siphoning off their votes as he's done the last two elections.

Phoenix Blue
March 26th, 2008, 03:22 PM
The notion that she just confused trips or just misspoke, miss-remembered after nearly a decade+ later is much more plausible to me then just flat out lying and embelishing
No. When your arse is under sniper fire, that's something you remember for the rest of your life. She got caught lying and offered up a lame "I was mistaken" when she was called on it.

Sequoia
March 26th, 2008, 05:29 PM
No. When your arse is under sniper fire, that's something you remember for the rest of your life. She got caught lying and offered up a lame "I was mistaken" when she was called on it.

Seriously. That's not the kind of thing that you misremember... especially when the situation that she described was so vastly different from the situation that actually happened.

If her memory's THAT bad, I sure as hell don't want her being president. Who knows what she'll "misremember" next?

pawnman
March 26th, 2008, 06:37 PM
Seriously. That's not the kind of thing that you misremember... especially when the situation that she described was so vastly different from the situation that actually happened.

If her memory's THAT bad, I sure as hell don't want her being president. Who knows what she'll "misremember" next?

The sniper fire wasn't the only thing she "mistook" during these little speeches. Didn't she also "recall" flying in on a Blackhawk, when she was actually on a cargo plane?

Sequoia
March 26th, 2008, 06:41 PM
The sniper fire wasn't the only thing she "mistook" during these little speeches. Didn't she also "recall" flying in on a Blackhawk, when she was actually on a cargo plane?

Poor lil' Hillary can't be expected to know the difference between two big mechanical things. After all, she IS a woman, and we all know how women are with mechanical things.

/heavy sarcasm

Laisrean
March 26th, 2008, 07:00 PM
Maybe she is like Reagan and is starting to get Alzheimer's? She might not remember how she voted to authorize the Iraq war, either.

Even if by some miracle she does get the nomination, she still can't win the general election against McCain. She's already provided too much fodder for the G.O.P. to "swiftboat" her with, just as they did with Kerry's campaign in the last election.

pawnman
March 26th, 2008, 07:11 PM
Maybe she is like Reagan and is starting to get Alzheimer's? She might not remember how she voted to authorize the Iraq war, either.

Even if by some miracle she does get the nomination, she still can't win the general election against McCain. She's already provided too much fodder for the G.O.P. to "swiftboat" her with, just as they did with Kerry's campaign in the last election.

What is the actual definition of "swiftboating"? Does it include pointing out obvious lies and flip-flops, or is it only about things not well-documented?

As many things as I disagree with McCain on, at least I never feel like he's trying to sucker me. I feel like he believes what he's doing is in the best interests of the country. With Clinton, I feel like she's doing whatever is in her own best interest, even if the country has to go down in flames for her to get it.

Phoenix Blue
March 26th, 2008, 07:30 PM
The sniper fire wasn't the only thing she "mistook" during these little speeches. Didn't she also "recall" flying in on a Blackhawk, when she was actually on a cargo plane?
*Laughs* Figures. I mean, yeah, a C-130 has propellers, but still.


As many things as I disagree with McCain on, at least I never feel like he's trying to sucker me. I feel like he believes what he's doing is in the best interests of the country. With Clinton, I feel like she's doing whatever is in her own best interest, even if the country has to go down in flames for her to get it.
I agree completely.

Jeremy Westenn
March 26th, 2008, 07:38 PM
Maybe she is like Reagan and is starting to get Alzheimer's? She might not remember how she voted to authorize the Iraq war, either.

Even if by some miracle she does get the nomination, she still can't win the general election against McCain. She's already provided too much fodder for the G.O.P. to "swiftboat" her with, just as they did with Kerry's campaign in the last election.

As oppose to Jeremiah Wrights televised roaring, Obama not distancing himself from him, his wife making idiotic comments that question her patriotism(Though I don't believe she is unpatriotic), Obama and Rezko, Obama's lack of any foreign policy experience...

I can't see Hillary having more negatives then him.

Laisrean
March 26th, 2008, 08:13 PM
As oppose to Jeremiah Wrights televised roaring, Obama not distancing himself from him, his wife making idiotic comments that question her patriotism(Though I don't believe she is unpatriotic), Obama and Rezko, Obama's lack of any foreign policy experience...

I can't see Hillary having more negatives then him.

You would think so, but the specter of Bill Clinton's scandals and infidelities would be raised and this gaffe about her going through "sniper fire" in Bosnia is just the tip of the iceberg of what would be unleashed against her if she gets the nomination. I think the only reason the G.O.P. is holding back is because they WANT her to get the nomination. She will be a much easier target for them to smear than Obama would be.

If she does get nominated, you can expect the G.O.P. smear campaign will unleash hell on her soon afterwards. I personally think she is VERY un-electable, and her senate victory came by the skin of her teeth which is sad considering how heavily New York is in the Democratic camp. If she can barely win a senate seat in a heavily liberal state, then how is she going to win conservative and moderate states in a general election?

Jeremy Westenn
March 26th, 2008, 11:38 PM
You would think so, but the specter of Bill Clinton's scandals and infidelities would be raised and this gaffe about her going through "sniper fire" in Bosnia is just the tip of the iceberg of what would be unleashed against her if she gets the nomination. I think the only reason the G.O.P. is holding back is because they WANT her to get the nomination. She will be a much easier target for them to smear than Obama would be.

If she does get nominated, you can expect the G.O.P. smear campaign will unleash hell on her soon afterwards. I personally think she is VERY un-electable, and her senate victory came by the skin of her teeth which is sad considering how heavily New York is in the Democratic camp. If she can barely win a senate seat in a heavily liberal state, then how is she going to win conservative and moderate states in a general election?

Obviously I disagree with your statements about the Republicans having a field day with her, and I actually believe that she will give as good as she gets which is something we know Kerry didn't do and something I don't think Obama can do very well given his personality and how he's run thus far.

As for the Senate campaign comment, your are on something, seriously. Have you even researched this? I mean that is a ridiculous comment that the smallest amount of effort would have prevented you from writing.

In 2000 she won by 55% while the Republican got 43.01 % and a ton of other smaller minor candidates some of whom actually received large amounts of votes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Senate_election_in_New_York%2C_2000#General_election

In 2006 she was re-elected with 67% and the Republican got 31% with one other minor candidate receiving 1%.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Senate_election_in_New_York%2C_2006#Election_results

Believing different things is fine, making untruthful statements is not.

Djiril
March 27th, 2008, 01:45 AM
As oppose to Jeremiah Wrights televised roaring, Obama not distancing himself from him...
Frankly, I respect him more for that one. He did exactly what I would hope to have done in that situation.

Jeremy Westenn
March 27th, 2008, 01:51 AM
I disagree, he needed to set that man far from himself.

That man is going to be on a 527 ad a lot if Obama is the nominee, I can just see him screaming goddamn America while people watch television. People fell for the charges thrown against John Kerry, they fell for the charges against Max Cleveland and they'll fall for the charges that the Republicans are ready to throw against Obama.

As Adlai Stevenson once responded to a reporter whom told him, " Sir, all thinking people are on your side, " he responded, " Thank you, but I need a majority to win, "

- Jeremy

Djiril
March 27th, 2008, 02:19 AM
I disagree, he needed to set that man far from himself.

That man is going to be on a 527 ad a lot if Obama is the nominee, I can just see him screaming moldamn America while people watch television. People fell for the charges thrown against John Kerry, they fell for the charges against Max Cleveland and they'll fall for the charges that the Republicans are ready to throw against Obama.

As Adlai Stevenson once responded to a reporter whom told him, " Sir, all thinking people are on your side, " he responded, " Thank you, but I need a majority to win, "

- Jeremy
Well, I must admit that his response (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/03/18/obama-race-speech-read-t_n_92077.html) made me think that maybe he has too much integrity to win, but I still admire him for it.

pawnman
March 27th, 2008, 07:58 AM
Obviously I disagree with your statements about the Republicans having a field day with her, and I actually believe that she will give as good as she gets which is something we know Kerry didn't do and something I don't think Obama can do very well given his personality and how he's run thus far.

As for the Senate campaign comment, your are on something, seriously. Have you even researched this? I mean that is a ridiculous comment that the smallest amount of effort would have prevented you from writing.

In 2000 she won by 55% while the Republican got 43.01 % and a ton of other smaller minor candidates some of whom actually received large amounts of votes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Senate_election_in_New_York%2C_2000#General_election

In 2006 she was re-elected with 67% and the Republican got 31% with one other minor candidate receiving 1%.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Senate_election_in_New_York%2C_2006#Election_results

Believing different things is fine, making untruthful statements is not.

She's in for a wake-up call if she thinks New York is the only state that votes for President. It's tough to win a general election when more than half of America has an unfavorable image of you before the campaign even starts.

pawnman
March 27th, 2008, 08:22 AM
Hey, looks like she wasn't lying after all.

Video. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHVEDq6RVXc)

phyrefly
March 27th, 2008, 08:56 AM
At least the sniper-fire story was covered on the world media. When New Mexico's Governor Richardson went to Afghanistan, there was a chance to display more diplomacy with the Taliban than actually happened.

Trout Fishing in America

The same species of German Brown Trout that swims the streams of northern New Mexico also does so in Afghanistan. The world's record for this species certainly would not have slipped by Richardson, although no offers to bin Laden for a fishing trip came through this chronology, bin Laden's peace-activist son would likely have been impressed by world media coverage of the event. An all-male Christian society meets for conferences in those New Mexico mountains, though one will liklely not see any of these sporting both beard AND turban simultaneously. Thus, the Richardson-Obama alignment is not surprising.

LostSheep
March 27th, 2008, 09:49 AM
be fair, anyone willing to face the horror of
a little girl who read her a poem deserves some kudos. At least they didn't lay on..

folk dancing ....


:blushake:

IvyWitch
March 27th, 2008, 10:21 AM
Ok, so the excuse is that a decade later she can't be expected to remember all the details of every trip out of the country.

Has Hillary ever landed anywhere under sniper fire? Does her story about having to abandon a welcoming ceremony because of a hail of bullets on the tarmac jive with any trip she's taken to any country?

If it's never happened, then she most certainly is lying through her teeth. She's never stated what event she confused this one with, it's likely that it never happened.

It's also pretty insulting to all the people in Bosnia-Herzegovina who actually did live under sniper fire for years.

wrenjamin
March 27th, 2008, 10:21 AM
I started off as a strong Clinton supporter, but as time has passed, I'm not sure I can really say that anymore. I was a huge politics dork, but this race is just so tiresome. Why can't they come together and fight McCain, rather than each other? GAH.

RivaWitch
March 27th, 2008, 11:27 AM
Wearing a US flag in ones lapel does not make them patriotic. It's this simple mindedness of some Americans that annoy me.

Sad thing is people will not vote or vote for someone based on these things.

Riva

IvyWitch
March 27th, 2008, 12:18 PM
This isn't the only thing she's lied about either:

http://pundits.thehill.com/2008/03/26/hillarys-other-fabrication/#more-2773


Now that Hillary has been nailed in an outright fabrication of her role in Bosnia, it is time to remind ourselves of another, even more galling, fantasy that Hillary tried to sell to voters. After Sept. 11, Hillary had a problem. New Yorkers were desperately focused on their own need for protection and they were saddled with a senator who was not one of them — an Arkansan, or was it a Chicagoan?
I'm sorry, but that is also not the sort of thing you forget. I know exactly where I was that morning, and so does Chelsea. Is this just another incident where her "bad memory" (a week after the attacks) caused her to misspeak?

Jeremy Westenn
March 27th, 2008, 12:37 PM
She's in for a wake-up call if she thinks New York is the only state that votes for President. It's tough to win a general election when more than half of America has an unfavorable image of you before the campaign even starts.

Yeah and it wouldn't hurt Obama if he'd win a state that was actually a swing state in the actual general election. I'm proud that Kansas had such a high caucus turn out and It's fine that Obama won my state, however, were not going blue in November.

Jeremy Westenn
March 27th, 2008, 12:40 PM
Ok, so the excuse is that a decade later she can't be expected to remember all the details of every trip out of the country.

Has Hillary ever landed anywhere under sniper fire? Does her story about having to abandon a welcoming ceremony because of a hail of bullets on the tarmac jive with any trip she's taken to any country?

If it's never happened, then she most certainly is lying through her teeth. She's never stated what event she confused this one with, it's likely that it never happened.

It's also pretty insulting to all the people in Bosnia-Herzegovina who actually did live under sniper fire for years.

Honestly, I think it's a valid excuse, I believe that she was told there was a danger of sniper fire, I believe they landed the plane the way she said, that she was moved to the front, and that they were told to get to their cars fast and that she got sidetracked with the group of people waiting for her. And it was over a decage ago, I think it's reasonable, I don't however believe most Obama supporters are reasonable people.

Anyways, were not going to agree on this. I'd just like the poster who lied about her senate campaign in New York to respond. That was a fun lie to catch someone in.

Phoenix Blue
March 27th, 2008, 12:48 PM
There's no such thing as a "valid" excuse. Excuses are invalid by definition.

IvyWitch
March 27th, 2008, 12:53 PM
Honestly, I think it's a valid excuse, I believe that she was told there was a danger of sniper fire, I believe they landed the plane the way she said, that she was moved to the front, and that they were told to get to their cars fast and that she got sidetracked with the group of people waiting for her. And it was over a decage ago, I think it's reasonable, I don't however believe most Obama supporters are reasonable people.

Anyways, were not going to agree on this. I'd just like the poster who lied about her senate campaign in New York to respond. That was a fun lie to catch someone in.

Ten years ago I went to the Bahamas for my 16th birthday. I remember a large number of details about the event, including the fact that when I went to dinner in the hotel with my father, people gave us some dirty looks. We assumed that it was because they thought my dad was a pedophile. However, I wouldn't go and tell someone that my father got into a fist fight with someone in the restaurant over it. And, I didn't write a book about my experiences.

I don't think it's entirely unreasonable to expect someone to remember whether they were shot at or not. That's not something you forget about.

What makes people who support Hillary more reasonable than those who support Obama?

(And, for the record I support neither so it's not personal, I'm just curious).

Jeremy Westenn
March 27th, 2008, 01:00 PM
Ten years ago I went to the Bahamas for my 16th birthday. I remember a large number of details about the event, including the fact that when I went to dinner in the hotel with my father, people gave us some dirty looks. We assumed that it was because they thought my dad was a pedophile. However, I wouldn't go and tell someone that my father got into a fist fight with someone in the restaurant over it. And, I didn't write a book about my experiences.

I don't think it's entirely unreasonable to expect someone to remember whether they were shot at or not. That's not something you forget about.

What makes people who support Hillary more reasonable than those who support Obama?

(And, for the record I support neither so it's not personal, I'm just curious).

Honestly, I was a bit heated when I wrote that, to be frank It's more along the lines of all of the Obama supporters I've met being some of the most awful, nasty, mean spirited, Anti-Hillary Clinton I wouldn't vote for her in a swing state if my candidate doesn't win type of man or woman.

The fact that I meet these people all on the internet and it tends to attract the most vicious of people probably isn't a great look at most Obama supporters. Truthfully though, I've not met one Obama supporter here in my local Democratic Party(Which I am a huge active and volunteering member of) that reflects those views.

I denounce my previous statement!! But I will attest to one thing though, I've yet to meet, even on the internet really, a Clinton supporter who is as nasty and downright awful as some of the Obama supporters that I have met period. There's this air of entitlement among many Obama supporters and it does bother me to death. Their both Democrats at the end of the day, we should stand by either of them.

Jeremy Westenn
March 27th, 2008, 01:05 PM
Let me add one other thing, I've met a vast number of Obama supporter's who have perpetuated the notion that Hillary actually cheated with the voting machines to win in Ohio and New Hampshire. Not kidding, not kidding, not kidding. It makes me so mad because it's so stupid and basically it's just sour grapes.

Laisrean
March 27th, 2008, 01:13 PM
From this sniper gaffe we can assume at least one of the following is true:

1) Hillary is a liar
2) She's delusional and thinks these events actually happened.

Regardless of which is the case, neither are things people want associated with their commander in chief.

IvyWitch
March 27th, 2008, 01:15 PM
This is definitely a pattern.

People are trying to say she doesn't lie...she just misspeaks. I, on the other hand, know for a fact I've never been shot at. It's kind of something you tend to remember. I think the Bosnia lie is insulting to everyone...to Bosnians, to Americans, to the military that was there ensuring her safety. I just don't understand how people can let this go. Now we find out she's lied about her daughter and she lied about how she got the name Hillary, and she lied about playing soccer in high school. How many times can a person lie and get away with it? If she's lying to the public about unimportant details like this to embellish her story, how am I supposed to believe she will tell the truth if she becomes president?

pawnman
March 27th, 2008, 01:46 PM
This is definitely a pattern.

People are trying to say she doesn't lie...she just misspeaks. I, on the other hand, know for a fact I've never been shot at. It's kind of something you tend to remember. I think the Bosnia lie is insulting to everyone...to Bosnians, to Americans, to the military that was there ensuring her safety. I just don't understand how people can let this go. Now we find out she's lied about her daughter and she lied about how she got the name Hillary, and she lied about playing soccer in high school. How many times can a person lie and get away with it? If she's lying to the public about unimportant details like this to embellish her story, how am I supposed to believe she will tell the truth if she becomes president?

This is a good lesson to all candidates. If you're going to lie, don't lie about an event with 70 reporters and tons of military folks that hate you and will dime you out in a heartbeat.

Laisrean
March 27th, 2008, 01:52 PM
I just don't understand how people can let this go.

I for one will not. I'll be sure to bring this up with people who support her right up until she drops out. I also try to point out how she voted for the Iraq war and the Patriot act, which many of her supporters seem to have forgotten about. You can't be anti-Iraq war and a Hillary supporter at the same time, because she voted for the war!

And I make sure people who support her know that they are supporting the one who got us into this mess. She is just as responsible for the 4,000 American deaths and the costs as Bush is.

Laisrean
March 27th, 2008, 01:54 PM
This is a good lesson to all candidates. If you're going to lie, don't lie about an event with 70 reporters and tons of military folks that hate you and will dime you out in a heartbeat.

Makes you wonder what else both she and her husband lied about that no one was able to disprove because cameras weren't there. She and her husband both have one thing in common: they're both liars.

LostSheep
March 27th, 2008, 02:36 PM
I notice she said this
"occasionally I am a human being like everybody else."

So does that mean that the rumours are true and she is, in fact, really a droid (most of the time)?

Laisrean
March 27th, 2008, 02:41 PM
I notice she said this

So does that mean that the rumours are true and she is, in fact, really a droid (most of the time)?

That looks to be another thing both she and Bush have in common. Bush says all sorts of stupid things like "is our children learning?" and here she is doing the same. So once again, I say she is really just Bush in drag.

BTW, has anyone ever actually seen her and W in the same place at the same time? :T

David19
March 27th, 2008, 06:52 PM
I for one will not. I'll be sure to bring this up with people who support her right up until she drops out. I also try to point out how she voted for the Iraq war and the Patriot act, which many of her supporters seem to have forgotten about. You can't be anti-Iraq war and a Hillary supporter at the same time, because she voted for the war!

And I make sure people who support her know that they are supporting the one who got us into this mess. She is just as responsible for the 4,000 American deaths and the costs as Bush is.

I think that's a little harsh, saying she's "just as responsible" for the deaths of U.S. soldiers.

Also, an anti-Iraq war person can still support Hilary, just like a conservative/Republican doesn't have to be homophobic.

pawnman
March 27th, 2008, 07:04 PM
I think that's a little harsh, saying she's "just as responsible" for the deaths of U.S. soldiers.

Also, an anti-Iraq war person can still support Hilary, just like a conservative/Republican doesn't have to be homophobic.

Why? She voted to send them.

Although the only people who REALLY bear the responsibility of those deaths are, you know, the TERRORISTS WHO ACTUALLY KILLED THEM.

I swear, some people act like Bush is a bigger enemy of the US than Bin Laden.

Phoenix Blue
March 27th, 2008, 07:16 PM
I swear, some people act like Bush is a bigger enemy of the US than Bin Laden.
He's sent far more Americans to their deaths, but that's neither here nor there.

pawnman
March 27th, 2008, 08:05 PM
He's sent far more Americans to their deaths, but that's neither here nor there.

I don't think he has. But then, if we're gonna blame every combat death on the President who got them involved, I'd say FDR and Truman have alot to answer for, eh?

Phoenix Blue
March 27th, 2008, 08:11 PM
I think history will well acquit both Franklin Roosevelt and Harry Truman. In fact, I believe it already has.

pawnman
March 27th, 2008, 08:16 PM
I think history will well acquit both Franklin Roosevelt and Harry Truman. In fact, I believe it already has.

I guess we'll have to wait and see what history has to say about Bush. I'm sure it will be nothing nice, considering the political leanings of the professors who write history textbooks.

David19
March 27th, 2008, 08:38 PM
I guess we'll have to wait and see what history has to say about Bush. I'm sure it will be nothing nice, considering the political leanings of the professors who write history textbooks.

How will the politicial leanings of the professors affect history exactly?.

And, I'm guessing you're trying to say the professors are mainly left-wing, but have you got any evidence for that?.

Laisrean
March 27th, 2008, 08:42 PM
I don't think he has. But then, if we're gonna blame every combat death on the President who got them involved, I'd say FDR and Truman have alot to answer for, eh?

Let's also not forget: Polk, Lincoln, McKinley, Wilson, and Johnson. There's a lot of American blood on their hands from their unnecessary foreign adventures.

As for FDR and Truman, I don't think they are the noble heroes they are often portrayed as either. FDR was a racist who allowed lynchings to continue, he interned thousands of Americans who were of Japanese ancestry. And by the way, have you ever heard of his Morgenthau plan for "reconstructing" Europe? Or how he buddied up to the greatest mass murderer in human history?

Truman wiped two Japanese cities off the map and dragged the U.S. into the Korean war, but to be fair I'll give him credit for not being a Stalin apologist like his predecessor was. It was a good thing for Europe FDR died before the war ended too, because the Marshall plan was a better plan than the Morgenthau plan FDR had envisioned.

phyrefly
March 28th, 2008, 01:53 AM
The sisters in action: one 'lies' and the other refuses to visit Argentina, recalling the shuttered windows in Buenos Aires, a testament to man's inhumanity to man. What morphology may be recognized in the assemblage, Hillary-Condoleeza?

'As Hannah Arendt pointed out in the reference to Nazi Germany, the public of course knows the general facts -- "that concentration camps exist, that people disappear, that innocent persons are arrested" -- but at the same time it resorts to "the common-sense disinclination to believe the monstrous." It takes a step forward and a step backward. The message of terror permeating society reinforces this disinclination to believe. "It is the greatest crime ever to talk about these 'secrets.' " The silenced knowledge, deformed by terror and battled on all fronts by denial, eventually "loses its quality of reality and assumes the nature of a mere nightmare." The dreaminess of this horrific reality facilitates efforts to dismiss the events as unreal, but the luxury of that dismissal then exacts in exchange an inescapable nightmarish milieu, as imprecise as it is implacable. The repressors "alone are in a position to believe in what they know to be true"; they constitute a privileged elite exclusively empowered to acknowledge and access "what actually constitutes the reality for all." '
(Graziano F, Divine Violence: Spectacle, Psychosexuality, and Radical Christianity in the Argentine "Dirty War," Westview Press (1992) p. 76 The Strategic Theatrics of Atrocity)

Rudas Starblaze
March 28th, 2008, 02:16 AM
tooth!! tooth!!! tooth!!!!

clinton lies through her tooth!!
get it right everyone!! shes from arkansas!!!!!

Laisrean
March 28th, 2008, 03:11 AM
tooth!! tooth!!! tooth!!!!

clinton lies through her tooth!!
get it right everyone!! shes from arkansas!!!!!

She seems to have teeth to me. Now granted, they are big, yellow, and possibly artificial, but they are teeth nonetheless.

LostSheep
March 28th, 2008, 04:41 AM
Why? She voted to send them.

Although the only people who REALLY bear the responsibility of those deaths are, you know, the TERRORISTS WHO ACTUALLY KILLED THEM.

I swear, some people act like Bush is a bigger enemy of the US than Bin Laden.

I'd say managing to alienate just about every ally he has, or might potentially have had, was a pretty impressive record, wouldn't you?

pawnman
March 28th, 2008, 07:46 AM
How will the politicial leanings of the professors affect history exactly?.

And, I'm guessing you're trying to say the professors are mainly left-wing, but have you got any evidence for that?.

Nothing more than the generally acknowledged left tilt that comes with academics who spend their whole lives at college.

David19
March 28th, 2008, 08:53 PM
Nothing more than the generally acknowledged left tilt that comes with academics who spend their whole lives at college.

What's wrong with academics who devote their lives to knowledge, and teaching students?.

I've been taught by quite a few lecturers, who were kind of left-leaning, and they've been the best and coolest lecturers ever, they are also some of the most passionate people about the subjects they're interested in.

pawnman
March 29th, 2008, 10:15 AM
What's wrong with academics who devote their lives to knowledge, and teaching students?.

I've been taught by quite a few lecturers, who were kind of left-leaning, and they've been the best and coolest lecturers ever, they are also some of the most passionate people about the subjects they're interested in.

Nothing's wrong with it, per se. They just tend to be left-leaning. So you can guess how they'll treat Bush when the time comes to write the history textbooks.

Laisrean
March 29th, 2008, 02:57 PM
Nothing's wrong with it, per se. They just tend to be left-leaning. So you can guess how they'll treat Bush when the time comes to write the history textbooks.

History is in the eye of the beholder. For example, the Spanish destroyed the Aztecs and protrayed them as blood thirsty savages who did nothing but cut the hearts out of innocent people. They were able to write the history books because they were the conquerors, but over time that view has been challenged and nowadays most people realize there was more to the Aztecs than just that.

But as for Bush, the best he can hope for is to be remembered as a mediocre president. Right now most people hate him, but that was also true of Nixon when he was in office. The hatred towards Nixon has faded somewhat over the years, and so too will the hatred towards Bush fade. But one thing I think is certain is he won't be remembered as one of the great presidents. The only thing about his presidency that really stands out is the Iraq war and the war on terrorism. Time will tell how those things turn out, but there isn't anything else for him to really take credit for.

phyrefly
April 2nd, 2008, 03:34 PM
As for the writing of history, Bill Clinton visits Indiana today. Condoleeza and Hillary likely agree on one thing: the history of the Argentine "dirty war." As for Hillary's 'lie' specifically....

' "One day he came home and told me he was going to resign from the union. He said, "People are disappearing." I said, "What do you mean disappearing? How can they disappear?" I told him it couldn't be true. This was in 1976 under the government of Isabel, when the Triple A had already started to kidnap and kill people.

....When I began to look for work outside the home it was very hard because the government, or Martinez de Hoz, had closed a lot of factories and it was difficult to find work. For everyone, not just for me. But it was also difficult because I couldn't say I had a disappeared husband otherwise they wouldn't have given me a job. I had to say we were separated. All those lies we had to tell. My daughter had to lie too. If she went for a job and said her father had disappeared they wouldn't contact her again. The children had to suffer these kinds of attitudes from other people. She didn't trust anyone and she says how can she be friendly to people who turned their backs when her father disappeared?" '
(Testimony of Aida de Suarez and Carmen de Guede in, Fisher J, Mothers of the Disappeared, Zed Books (1989))

pawnman
April 9th, 2008, 08:57 PM
RangerUp has a new exclusive...an interview with the sniper tasked to take out Hillary!


It’s now a well known fact Hillary came into an LZ so hot that they needed to perform the fabled “corkscrew landing” just to survive. Some people like to talk about Hal Moore’s amazing Battle of Ia Drang, as immortalized in We Were Soldiers, or The Battle of Mogadishu captured in Blackhawk Down, or even “smaller” events like the Battle of Iwo Jima or the boat landings at Normandy as being “hot”, but these skimrishes wouldn’t have even registered on Hillary’s combat thermometer.


Story. (http://yhst-50863389838911.stores.yahoo.net/raupexinhicl.html)