Black magic doesn't work.

[Jeremy Westenn]

I don't believe this but am I the only Pagan/magical practitioner that seems to have inferred that most of the Wiccan/Pagan community seems to espouse this belief? That curses and spells against someone, negatively and in a not nice fashion, actually won't do anything? I've gotten this idea a lot from different people.

- Jeremy

[Rudas Starblaze]

well, if the bad ones dont work, then the good cant work either.

everyone preaches about "balance".

theres north, theres south.
theres east, theres west.
theres day, theres night.
theres up, theres down.
theres negative and positive.
theres darkness and light.

you cant have one with out the other. simple as.

the energy is energy. the intent is what truely matters.

[Shawn Blackwolf]

First : To rephrase ; does negative mgieck work ?

My Tradition ? Most definitely , when we have to use it...
perference is not to have to...:smile:

What is Black Mgieck ? My Tradition ?

Working with invisible ( to most , unless "tuned" ) fields
of energy...

What is White Mgieck ? My Tradition ? Working with the
visible fields of energy...

Do they all "work" ? My experience ? Of course...for me...:boing:

[Bettie]

the energy is energy. the intent is what truely matters.

QFT.

Without intent, you will get nothing, whether you're talking about black, white, blue or pink and purple-spotted magic.

Your will makes it work. There is no "can't work" or "won't work" about it. If you put the energy, the effort, the will, the passion into it, it will work.

[aluokaloo]

of course it works. and I gots ta know what blue pink and purple spotted magic does Betty!

[Xentor]

I don't believe this but am I the only Pagan/magical practitioner that seems to have inferred that most of the Wiccan/Pagan community seems to espouse this belief? That curses and spells against someone, negatively and in a not nice fashion, actually won't do anything? I've gotten this idea a lot from different people.

- Jeremy

Based on how I interpret the term 'black magic', assuming your interpretation is similar, I'd classify that idea as dangerously ignorant.

[RivaWitch]

How does that saying go?

"A Witch who can't hurt can't heal"


Riva

[Sage Rainsong]

I don't believe this but am I the only Pagan/magical practitioner that seems to have inferred that most of the Wiccan/Pagan community seems to espouse this belief? That curses and spells against someone, negatively and in a not nice fashion, actually won't do anything? I've gotten this idea a lot from different people.

- Jeremy

That sentiment always irritated me. Assuming that you mean harmful magic when you say black. Those same people tend to believe that you can send healing energy to someone without their knowledge. If you can send other kinds of energy to people why not harmful energy? I think that this belief came about because some people just wanted better PR for Wicca and other Pagan religions.

[Brigid Rowan]

"Good" and "bad" both work. Yin and Yang, positive and negative, ebb and flow. The energy of both exists, to create, to destroy..they balance each other. To create a new garden, you must rip out the old landscape...creation and growth must be tempered by rest and destruction. So it is in nature, so it is with energy.

To assume one half of the equation isnt "real" is ignorant.

[aranarose]

That sentiment always irritated me. Assuming that you mean harmful magic when you say black. Those same people tend to believe that you can send healing energy to someone without their knowledge. If you can send other kinds of energy to people why not harmful energy? I think that this belief came about because some people just wanted better PR for Wicca and other Pagan religions.

I think it also probably has to do with a fear that it does work. So they tell themselves that "Curses only work if I believe in them, and I don't believe in curses, so they can't hurt me." Bullshit. If magic works at all, the ALL magic works, regardless of the belief of the person it is being cast on. It's the intent of the caster. Yes, the will of the 'victim' will come into play as well, but them not believing in curses is like me saying I don't believe in Air. I can't see it, it must not be real!

[Solya]

Oh it works... like all magic stuff... when it is done correctly. There needs to be a balance between white and black, between positive and negative, and one can only combat the black when one knows the black.

[Phoenix Blue]

I don't believe this but am I the only Pagan/magical practitioner that seems to have inferred that most of the Wiccan/Pagan community seems to espouse this belief? That curses and spells against someone, negatively and in a not nice fashion, actually won't do anything? I've gotten this idea a lot from different people.

- Jeremy
I've never seen it work. I've had people tell me they were going to put a curse on me, but nothing's ever come of it. *Shrugs* Maybe that says more about me than it does about the power of "darker" magic, though.

[aranarose]

I've never seen it work. I've had people tell me they were going to put a curse on me, but nothing's ever come of it. *Shrugs* Maybe that says more about me than it does about the power of "darker" magic, though.

I also wonder if it has to do with the power, or lack thereof, of someone who would brag about putting a curse on someone.

[Jeremy Westenn]

I've never seen it work. I've had people tell me they were going to put a curse on me, but nothing's ever come of it. *Shrugs* Maybe that says more about me than it does about the power of "darker" magic, though.

I think that when you say you don't believe in something, believe it to be silly, and essentially by doing so put up your own psychic blocks against it, etc. the effect is diminishing and what someone may have casted against you may not work.

For instance, I'm going to go curse George W. Bush. K? But let's pretend he is not as unpopular as he is now and lots and lots of people love him, from both sides. I think that love, admiration, and respect builds up its own power and protection around him, not to mention the daily physical protections he'd have on a day to day basis doing the same. So did you cast a spell on the President? Yes, but is it going to make it through all that muck? Probably not, or so I have inferred, but I've yet to have a reason to curse someone though I do admit I got a good candidate recently...

That being said this notion that black magic, and I mean harmful magic by saying that, doesn't work reminds me of the Pagans that say all Gods are one God but then proceed to blast the Christian, Jewish, and Muslim God.

It is interesting though to me that all of the replies here are not validating that opinion. I wonder if perhaps were scaring them off? <_<

:rotfl:

[Moonlight's Daughter]

There is no black or white magic, just magic. Its the intent that depends the outcome. That said, I think it can work provided on what the receipiant believes. What you fear, you create.

[Lunacie]

How does that saying go?

"A Witch who can't hurt can't heal"


Riva



I've never seen it work. I've had people tell me they were going to put a curse on me, but nothing's ever come of it. *Shrugs* Maybe that says more about me than it does about the power of "darker" magic, though.


Energy exchange is a two-way business. One of the first and hardest lessons I learned as a Healer was that some people don't want to be healed - even though they ask for someone to send them healing energies they block those energies from doing much. I assume it would work the same way with harmful energies, they could also be blocked... either by disbelief or by honestly believing that one doesn't deserve the intended effect.

However, someone who is more experienced or has a stronger intent in sending energy may be able to bypass the block and still affect the target person to some degree.

[elfmage]

However, someone who is more experienced or has a stronger intent in sending energy may be able to bypass the block and still affect the target person to some degree.


I agree. Besides, how can you definitively state what in your life is the result of day to day living, and what is being affected by a spell? You might be having a terrible day as a result of a curse, or you could be having an average day that MIGHT have been a fantastic day, had it not been for said curse.

As others have said, magick/energy work is what it is; it simply exists and is shaped and formed and directed by us. It's our intent that causes us to define what "type" of magick it is.

That being said... the majority of people I've ever met with the power to do real damage with "dark" (Urgh, hate that term) magick are the ones who would just roll their eyes and tell someone to sod off, rather than resort to magick. Furthermore, in my experience, the majority of people who claim to curse someone, or claim to be cursed, are the attention seeking drama queens, for whom their religion seems to be some kind of fantasy status symbol. People seeking excitement in their otherwise dull lives, etc.

I'm not saying this is true of all people being cursed, or cursing. Just in a lot of the cases I've witnessed.

[Shawn Blackwolf]

I agree. Besides, how can you definitively state what in your life is the result of day to day living, and what is being affected by a spell? You might be having a terrible day as a result of a curse, or you could be having an average day that MIGHT have been a fantastic day, had it not been for said curse.

Well...this does of course , depend on the type of curse , we are
speaking of...now , regardless , first ruling out all possible
natural causes...then , self induced sickness...

Say someone used a Vodoun , or even in our Faery Tradition ,
we have a death spell...so did the Druids , as they got it from
the same Tradition...though , the key was lost , at a certain time...

So...you rule out all causes let us say , of dehydration...no
medical reason...tests show negative results...even say you
are not dehydrating...but you feel , no matter how much
water you drink...you are continually in thirst...parched...

Then , though tests show negative...no reason for it...
cannot keep food down...even aversion to food...
hospitalized , and given intraveneous...etc. , until organs
shut down...no medical reason...cursed ?

I would say there...might...be a possibility...:lol:

Is there such a curse ?

There are those who would say yes...myself included...
but it then is not the practitioner , but the forces held
and set in motion by beings far more powerful than
humans...who can break through any human will...

Do I work with those ? I have not...and would most
certainly prefer not to...yet...I am aware it can be done...

There are many unexplained deaths...let alone events...
in this world of ours...but , ruling things out , step by step...

That may assist in seeing the possibility of the reality...

[EvieLee]

Just a note to say I'm loving this thread. I was expecting mostly the "there's no such thing" kind of replies but am enjoying reading this discussion. The topic has never crossed my mind in truth, so the replies I've been reading are very thought provoking.

[Jeremy Westenn]

Well...this does of course , depend on the type of curse , we are
speaking of...now , regardless , first ruling out all possible
natural causes...then , self induced sickness...

Say someone used a Vodoun , or even in our Faery Tradition ,
we have a death spell...so did the Druids , as they got it from
the same Tradition...though , the key was lost , at a certain time...

So...you rule out all causes let us say , of dehydration...no
medical reason...tests show negative results...even say you
are not dehydrating...but you feel , no matter how much
water you drink...you are continually in thirst...parched...

Then , though tests show negative...no reason for it...
cannot keep food down...even aversion to food...
hospitalized , and given intraveneous...etc. , until organs
shut down...no medical reason...cursed ?

I would say there...might...be a possibility...:lol:

Is there such a curse ?

There are those who would say yes...myself included...
but it then is not the practitioner , but the forces held
and set in motion by beings far more powerful than
humans...who can break through any human will...

Do I work with those ? I have not...and would most
certainly prefer not to...yet...I am aware it can be done...

There are many unexplained deaths...let alone events...
in this world of ours...but , ruling things out , step by step...

That may assist in seeing the possibility of the reality...

Can I ask you a question, off topic? <_< Why do you type with so many .... in your sentences?

And on another note I am surprised by the replies here, I thought more people would agree with the sentiment I was commenting on.

[Shawn Blackwolf]

No weirdness with your question , Jeremy...

But I have endured much over my prefered font ,
and punctuation , since I arrived...so...short and
sweet...

Nothing in the universe stops moving...so I do not
believe in the stoppage of a period...:lol:

[Teresa]

I also wonder if it has to do with the power, or lack thereof, of someone who would brag about putting a curse on someone.

EXACTLY, the ones that actually can do things like that don't go around bragging. Silence is golden.

[Jeremy Westenn]

No weirdness with your question , Jeremy...

But I have endured much over my prefered font ,
and punctuation , since I arrived...so...short and
sweet...

Nothing in the universe stops moving...so I do not
believe in the stoppage of a period...:lol:

lol, nice answer. :) :rollingla

[Russ]

I often have heard it said the bad things that happen to people are not curses but just there own "lack of personal responsibility". Which tends to always be the White Lighter way of blaming the victim YMMV.

Examples being a person assumes there cursed due to a broken ankle, losing there job and there health going bad.

The White Lighter would respond that it was due to being over weight (25 pounds over for the sake of argument. I've seen even five pounds over being used to justify all sorts of things) have weak ankles to begin with and the economy plus only average job performance used to explain away curses.


Yet those magick not tend to take the easiest route to accomplish it's aims? Would not being over weight, with weak ankles and a blow average job performance plus the state of the economy not just mean the spell has a ready means to work out?

I seem to recall I think Buddha stating living a Healthy and moral life being a good defense against black magic. Make the energy have to work to be of effect.

[Rudas Starblaze]

(im gonna use Shawn Blackwolf for a moment! lol)

as Shawn said here....

Working with invisible ( to most , unless "tuned" ) fields
of energy...

as most people talk the talk but dont walk the walk is easy for a person to say "hey, im gonna curse you." but do they really mean it deep down inside? more often than not, no. herein lies what i have a feeling Shawn was talking about.... there are very few people who are absolutly remorseless in their actions in witchcraft/spell casting which for "dark" spells makes all the difference in the world thus why several who say it, cant actually do it. but a few can....

but as Shawn has also mentioned...

..... when we have to use it...
perference is not to have to...

pretty much speaks for itself. basically as a last resort only for those who are able.
(not to make it sound like an exclusive club or anything! lol)



Energy exchange is a two-way business. One of the first and hardest lessons I learned as a Healer was that some people don't want to be healed - even though they ask for someone to send them healing energies they block those energies from doing much. I assume it would work the same way with harmful energies, they could also be blocked... either by disbelief or by honestly believing that one doesn't deserve the intended effect.

However, someone who is more experienced or has a stronger intent in sending energy may be able to bypass the block and still affect the target person to some degree.

QFT.
but i would like to add that the ability to block only extends as far as what the person protecting themselves is prepared for. most people use "mirror sheilds" which are effective no doubt, but there are ways around them too....

fortunatly for Phoenix Blue he must expect alot! lol (had to throw him in here!! :lol: )
_________________________________________________________________


my personal belief, if a person doesnt want to be cursed/hexed..... then be mindful of your actions towards other people, think before you act or speak. that is the best protection because you never know whos toes you may step on.

[Moonlight's Daughter]

I often have heard it said the bad things that happen to people are not curses but just there own "lack of personal responsibility". Which tends to always be the White Lighter way of blaming the victim YMMV.

Examples being a person assumes there cursed due to a broken ankle, losing there job and there health going bad.

The White Lighter would respond that it was due to being over weight (25 pounds over for the sake of argument. I've seen even five pounds over being used to justify all sorts of things) have weak ankles to begin with and the economy plus only average job performance used to explain away curses.


Yet those magick not tend to take the easiest route to accomplish it's aims? Would not being over weight, with weak ankles and a blow average job performance plus the state of the economy not just mean the spell has a ready means to work out?

I seem to recall I think Buddha stating living a Healthy and moral life being a good defense against black magic. Make the energy have to work to be of effect.

Well I am more likely to believe in natural causes than a curse (a curse would be my last thought)

We are more responsible for what happens in our life than we think. Do I think that a flat tire is a curse? Maybe I didnt do a checkup on it or it just wore out? Maybe I hit a nail? It could be all sorts of things.

As for blaming the victim-I am NOT a victim. Never have been, never will be. Bad things happen to good people all the time, so do good things. That is part of being human.

Do I beleive that it could be a curse? sure. But not likley and not often. Life happens. Its how you deal with it that makes all the difference. JMO.

I really beleive that for every action there is a equal reaction.

[Phoenix Blue]

I often have heard it said the bad things that happen to people are not curses but just there own "lack of personal responsibility". Which tends to always be the White Lighter way of blaming the victim YMMV.
Umm, no. If someone is mugged, that's not necessarily a lack of personal responsibility. But saying "I'm cursed" is an easy way out, and I don't believe in giving myself an easy way out of explaining something that's going on. I was born with a mind capable of rational thought, and I believe it's my responsibility to use it.


fortunatly for Phoenix Blue he must expect alot! lol (had to throw him in here!! )
*Laughs* The price of being the Banninator. A few months back, I had one person say (after being banned) that s/he would curse me to break up with my wife and get killed in an auto accident. The wife and I joked about that for a good two weeks -- "You didn't put your socks in the laundry basket. I want a divorce!"

But on a more serious note, I'm the one responsible for my relationships, and I'm the one responsible for my personal safety. I have good reflexes -- good enough that I avoided one potential head-on collission back in 2004 when someone in the oncoming lane fell asleep at the wheel and bounced his pickup truck off a semi trailer's back tires.

[Xentor]

*Laughs* The price of being the Banninator. A few months back, I had one person say (after being banned) that s/he would curse me to break up with my wife and get killed in an auto accident. The wife and I joked about that for a good two weeks -- "You didn't put your socks in the laundry basket. I want a divorce!"

But on a more serious note, I'm the one responsible for my relationships, and I'm the one responsible for my personal safety. I have good reflexes -- (...)

Part of this is one's willingness to indulge in superstition. If one is willing to believe curses do work, rather than believing one is responsible of the result of their own actions, one will also use the curse as a hindsight explanation for future events. Stating curses will never work can then be a defense mechanism to avoid personal superstition. Stating one is responsible personally, can be a similar defense mechanism.

Does that mean black magic doesn't work? No. It means one chooses to explain events without using black magic as a causation device.

[mtpathy]

I don't believe this but am I the only Pagan/magical practitioner that seems to have inferred that most of the Wiccan/Pagan community seems to espouse this belief? That curses and spells against someone, negatively and in a not nice fashion, actually won't do anything? I've gotten this idea a lot from different people.

- Jeremy

placing negative magick has very little to do with the intent of the practitoner and more about knowing the reality of the one your wanting to cast the spell on,within the context of using negative magick i use the term placing instead of casting, the reason behind this is your job as the practitioner is to persuade the one your casting the spell on into a negative state of mind, emotion and position from which you can manipulate them from, not pushing your own energy onto them in such a way that gives rise to your motivations and intentions.

if you so choose to go the "traditional" rout of casting negative spells, learn how to set up the pieces correctly before you actually do the spell, that way only the slightest breeze will blow down the house of cards, placing negative magick isnt like throwing a brick through a window it is indeed a artistic form.

the best way to learn how to use negative magick is first to have it done on you till you recognize the methods from which its placed by, this includes sending entities to you, casting magick on you and you simply learning to defend and recognize by using your wiles.

i suggest you read the other thread you started on negative spells, and read through the posts we exchanged again and think back to your reactions to my actions and ask yourself if you really want to learn how to use negative magick.

[Jeremy Westenn]

placing negative magick has very little to do with the intent of the practitoner and more about knowing the reality of the one your wanting to cast the spell on,within the context of using negative magick i use the term placing instead of casting, the reason behind this is your job as the practitioner is to persuade the one your casting the spell on into a negative state of mind, emotion and position from which you can manipulate them from, not pushing your own energy onto them in such a way that gives rise to your motivations and intentions.

if you so choose to go the "traditional" rout of casting negative spells, learn how to set up the pieces correctly before you actually do the spell, that way only the slightest breeze will blow down the house of cards, placing negative magick isnt like throwing a brick through a window it is indeed a artistic form.

the best way to learn how to use negative magick is first to have it done on you till you recognize the methods from which its placed by, this includes sending entities to you, casting magick on you and you simply learning to defend and recognize by using your wiles.

i suggest you read the other thread you started on negative spells, and read through the posts we exchanged again and think back to your reactions to my actions and ask yourself if you really want to learn how to use negative magick.

I don't have any real desire to do negative nasty harmful magic, in my case I plan on doing a spell to keep a very literal 100% for real dangerous person away.

[Theres]

That curses and spells against someone, negatively and in a not nice fashion, actually won't do anything?
i wouldn't attach this specifically to black magic, as it can apply to any magic. if the recipient isn't willing to buy into the spell, it ain't gonna work.
i've always said (usually in reference to so-called 'energy vampires' :rolleyes: ) that no one can take anything from me that i am not, on some level, willing to give. this applies here also.



"A Witch who can't hurt can't heal"
i've never really understood that quote, and always thought it was rather stupid.



Nothing in the universe stops moving...so I do not believe in the stoppage of a period...
but you do believe in the stoppage of THREE periods?

[Shawn Blackwolf]

but you do believe in the stoppage of THREE periods?

No...not for me...especially because , good sir , I percieve ,
due to mind programming , and indoctrination , which I
accepted a limited amount of , when I was younger , that
one dot, or illustrated point in space , might be called
a period...and , at the end of a sentence , in common usage ,
"normally" is , with all attending implications...

However...three dots , or illustrated points in space , following
a sentence , or turn of phrase , no longer qualifies as a period ,
at least in my perception , as well , though I cannot remember
the name at this hour , before my cappuccino , yet I do so believe
there is a specific term for abovesaid three dots...the perception of
those three dots , as individualized , thus periods , in punctuation
usage , denies their wholistic and unified state , and , limits one
to the game of reason , and analysis , which can lead to neurosis ,
and the the dread disease of anal retentiveness...

The flow pattern of the universe , as irrational though it may
appear sometime , is a wonder to behold...analysis , and synthesis...
The appreciation of chaos , and wholism...

Otherwise...It is all Greek to me...:lol:

[Rudas Starblaze]

and here all this time i just thought you were doing it to make fun of captain kirk from star trek, Shawn!! :lol: shows what i know eh?! lol

"captains log... 23.825... we've... encountered a strange... new... civilization... and... are about... to make contact..."
:nyah:

[Shawn Blackwolf]

and here all this time i just thought you were doing it to make fun of captain kirk from star trek, Shawn!! :lol: shows what i know eh?! lol

"captains log... 23.825... we've... encountered a strange... new... civilization... and... are about... to make contact..."
:nyah:

Well...yes...perhaps...shortly after I first arrived here , someone
told me that strange , so called grouping of semi civil beings ,
were called humans..a truly strange breed...Shawn out...

[Lunacie]

No...not for me...especially because , good sir , I percieve ,
due to mind programming , and indoctrination , which I
accepted a limited amount of , when I was younger , that
one dot, or illustrated point in space , might be called
a period...and , at the end of a sentence , in common usage ,
"normally" is , with all attending implications...

However...three dots , or illustrated points in space , following
a sentence , or turn of phrase , no longer qualifies as a period ,
at least in my perception , as well , though I cannot remember
the name at this hour , before my cappuccino , yet I do so believe
there is a specific term for abovesaid three dots...the perception of
those three dots , as individualized , thus periods , in punctuation
usage , denies their wholistic and unified state , and , limits one
to the game of reason , and analysis , which can lead to neurosis ,
and the the dread disease of anal retentiveness...

The flow pattern of the universe , as irrational though it may
appear sometime , is a wonder to behold...analysis , and synthesis...
The appreciation of chaos , and wholism...

Otherwise...It is all Greek to me...:lol:

And to further continue the off-topicness . . . from Wikipedia the poop on ellipsis . . .



Ellipsis (plural ellipses; from Greek (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Greek) ἔλλειψις 'omission') in printing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Printing) and writing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Writing) refers to a mark or series of marks that usually indicate an intentional omission of a word or a phrase from the original text. An ellipsis can also be used to indicate a pause in speech, an unfinished thought or, at the end of a sentence, a trailing off into silence (aposiopesis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aposiopesis)).


So, while I am sure that you . . . Shawn . . . are using ellipsis to mean an
unfinished thought . . . which is apparently the way you use them . . .
allowing you to put sometimes unconnected thoughts together and then
return to the original thought . . . eventually trailing off into silence . . .

Others may be reading your posts as the omission of a word or a phrase and are left scratching their heads. :huh:

Different perspectives between writer and reader, eh?

[Shawn Blackwolf]

And to further continue the off-topicness . . . from Wikipedia the poop on ellipsis . . .


So, while I am sure that you . . . Shawn . . . are using ellipsis to mean an
unfinished thought . . . which is apparently the way you use them . . .
allowing you to put sometimes unconnected thoughts together and then
return to the original thought . . . eventually trailing off into silence . . .

Others may be reading your posts as the omission of a word or a phrase and are left scratching their heads. :huh:

Different perspectives between writer and reader, eh?

Well , Lunacie , I was not the one who started the off - topic ,
and three times now , I have been most gracious in dealing
with people's fetish for their version of proper punctuation...

I find it hilarious , when I have caught many people on this site
who insist on proper spelling , and punctuation , according
to their way of seeing the universe , doing the very things they
insist others do not...

Now , as this is not what I want to spend my time doing , and
it is off topic , and I am politely reminding you , and others of
this...time to get back on topic...here was my original statement
to Jeremy , who was kind , and most accepting in his response...

"No weirdness with your question , Jeremy...

But I have endured much over my prefered font ,
and punctuation , since I arrived...so...short and
sweet..."

I believe that was post 21...thought it was ended then...

So...not only do I not care , whether people prefer a period , or
an ellipsis...it is about time for this whole off topic discussion
to be ended...period...:bigblue:

( And my thoughts are always connected , as my words
are...all someone has to do , is connect the dots...:lol: )

[Xentor]

Admin mode

Quite. Everyone drop it and return to the topic. Thank you.

[RainInanna]

I don't believe this but am I the only Pagan/magical practitioner that seems to have inferred that most of the Wiccan/Pagan community seems to espouse this belief? That curses and spells against someone, negatively and in a not nice fashion, actually won't do anything? I've gotten this idea a lot from different people.

What is their reasoning?

I'm curious because I can't even imagine the logic behind that belief.

[Jeremy Westenn]

Rain I don't know. Honestly, I don't. But I've met multiple people over my time that espouse that belief.

That, " I don't believe in black magic and curses so if you do it on me it won't hurt me! " is nonsense. Yes you can block yourself from certain magics, and you can set up defenses so that those things won't hurt you to bad, but the notion that it just won't work if you, you who is all so mighty and powerful just believe it won't, is nonsense. Just nonsense.

I was wondering what the pagan community here at mystic wicks thought and it seems the majority are in agreement. o_O

[Solya]

Well, sure, thoughts and willpower influence a lot. Believing something won't work on you will almost certainly diminish any kind of effect it has on you. I, however, can't find it inside myself to believe that negativity will never affect another person. Even when you're shielding and blocking it... you're using energy to shield and block it with, and so it does affect you to a certain degree.

[Moonlight's Daughter]

Rain I don't know. Honestly, I don't. But I've met multiple people over my time that espouse that belief.

That, " I don't believe in black magic and curses so if you do it on me it won't hurt me! " is nonsense. Yes you can block yourself from certain magics, and you can set up defenses so that those things won't hurt you to bad, but the notion that it just won't work if you, you who is all so mighty and powerful just believe it won't, is nonsense. Just nonsense.

I was wondering what the pagan community here at mystic wicks thought and it seems the majority are in agreement. o_O

Well I look at it as that if I fear something, the more I will draw it to me-so if I dont fear something, the power that thing has is diminished.

So using that-if someone puts a curse on me, then it might work-but if I dont believe in it-its effect on me is diminished.

For example-I have a fear of black filters in swimming pools. If I take the time to walk on them, look at them underwater, and work through that fear-they no longer have power over me. Same thing with anything really.

What you fear, you create.

[Shawn Blackwolf]

Well I look at it as that if I fear something, the more I will draw it to me-so if I dont fear something, the power that thing has is diminished.

So using that-if someone puts a curse on me, then it might work-but if I dont believe in it-its effect on me is diminished.


What you fear, you create.

Moonlight's Daughter :

Please understand ; I am just using your statement as an
illustration , and example , of what others have also said...

This is not , in any way directed at you , in any negative
way...

That said...

Yes , there is truth , in what you , and Solya have said...
much of this position , however , is based on a person
knowing , and being consciously aware , that a curse has
been placed on them...which is not always , and in many
instances , is not the case...

My Tradition suggests that we do notify the person ahead
of time , they are treading on thin ice , before we curse , if
need be...again , I practice , and teach this , as a last resort...

But , in Faery Tradition , you get us pissed enough...we
will pull out all stops...a person's ability to shield themselves ,
or to curse / attack , is only as strong as their developed will
force , and their contact , and ability , to work with mundane
and mgieckal energies...

Most humans have a very undeveloped will...and their belief
in their abilities , or protection , can be easily undermined...

For instance...what if...just if..someone really wanted to do
something like this ? Would they go straight for a person
they thought might be able to ward against it ?

No...that would be stupid...or , at the least , perhaps ineffective...

You would go for those around them , less able to protect...
to demolish their emotional state , leaving them more open..

But that is only one of many methods , utilized by those who practice these Artz...

Let me put it another way...your human bio - computer , has
a firewall of will force...do you not think any of you , some of
us , from whatever tradition , know how to hack the system ,
or even crash it ?

Perhaps this might help , in the understanding...there is always
a hacker , better than your firewall...if they really set their full
will - desire force into the operation...may take time...maybe a
moon cycle...maybe a year and a day...but it can , has been ,
and will be done , by those who choose that path...

May none of us have to , pursue it ourselves...or ward against it...


( Hilarious synchronicity , if you place any significance to the number...
went to new posts , after posting this...

http://www.mysticwicks.com/images/misc/subscribed.gif http://www.mysticwicks.com/images/buttons/firstnew.gif (http://mysticwicks.com/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=186536) Black magic doesn't work. (http://mysticwicks.com/showthread.php?t=186536) (http://www.mysticwicks.com/images/misc/multipage.gif 1 (http://mysticwicks.com/showthread.php?t=186536) 2 (http://mysticwicks.com/showthread.php?t=186536&page=2) 3 (http://mysticwicks.com/showthread.php?t=186536&page=3) 4 (http://mysticwicks.com/showthread.php?t=186536&page=4) 5 (http://mysticwicks.com/showthread.php?t=186536&page=5) ) Today 2:15 By Shawn Blackwolf 41 Posts ...Views 666
Jeremy Westenn



Kinda funny...LOL...)

[Lunacie]

For example, many years ago when I met the man who would become my hubby, he had been dating another girl who belonged to a certain coven. My hubby was not a member of that coven. To this day I do not know if he didn't bother to tell her he didn't want to date her anymore, or whether he told her but she wouldn't let him go, but I strongly suspect the latter. I only know that she was very upset when she called his house one day and I answered the phone.

That evening, we were in his room talking about things and suddenly the cat started going crazy, running around the room on the furniture and on the walls, around and around and around. Then I started to feel sick, just like getting the flu but with no warning symptoms, just very very sick. My BF checked his wards and shields and realized that something or someone was attacking us. It did not make him sick, and again I don't know whether that's because he was shielded and I was not, or because the attack was directed against me as the interloper. But in any case, she had called in her whole coven because she felt she had been betrayed, and one person, even with shields and wards, could not protect against that much negative energy.

He was able to trace the energy signature back to his ex GF and called someone to ask them to back off. I suspect she had lied about the situation, because her high priest felt so bad about taking part in the attack that he committed suicide a few days later (may have had other issues and this just pushed him over the edge).

But I had no protections, and no idea what magic and curses could do, my only knowledge of magic was from reading fairy tales and fantasy books or watching stage magicians on tv. I was defenseless and easily overwhelmed, as was the cat, while my BF was not affected, although a prolonged attack or one directed at him alone might have affected him sooner.

[Brigid Rowan]

Interesting post, Shawn.~nods~ Nice that you at least, fire a "warning shot over their bow" before tossing any curse their way. Have you ever cursed someone, though, and been surprised by the outcom?. Forgive my faux pas of asking about a spell, but Im curious as to how your overall experiance has been.

What do you consider the morals around a curse? You speak of focusing on those around the target, not going for the target itself. Aren't those other people really innocent and undeserving of the curse and it's fall out?

Blessings to you, and btw...my ravens are still here, LOL..
Brigid

[Shawn Blackwolf]

Interesting post, Shawn.~nods~ Nice that you at least, fire a "warning shot over their bow" before tossing any curse their way. Have you ever cursed someone, though, and been surprised by the outcom?. Forgive my faux pas of asking about a spell, but Im curious as to how your overall experiance has been.

What do you consider the morals around a curse? You speak of focusing on those around the target, not going for the target itself. Aren't those other people really innocent and undeserving of the curse and it's fall out?

Blessings to you, and btw...my ravens are still here, LOL..
Brigid


Hello , Brigid...just a cybermoment , please...

Yes , Lunacie , nice post...do remember , the psychic nature
of the feline species...one reason for the witch's cat , and our
large cats , guarding our ancient initiate's temples...

Okay...answer to you , Brigid...

This is a delicate , and "sore" subject , for me...

One reason why I know these things work...and why , I do ,
now , advocate , and teach , what I do...

I , when first exploring the Craft , ( not the Faery Crreayafth ) I
got involved with some rather advanced , yet very unscrupulous ,
and , shall I say , darkened souls...who saw my potential , knew
my bloodlines , etc...I was used , for my will...they trained me ,
in certain techniques , to work with them...

When there occurred a "Witch War" , between covens , in the
area...there was a retual done...a death retual...which I did not
"actively" participate in...Ie: I did not do the calling , but my
energy was tapped into , for the Circle , by my connection to
them..my webline , so to speak , with their Weyyrd...

Within three days , the opposing coven was disbanded...the
High Priest having committed suicide , with two guns to his
head...the second main Priest , running his motorcycle into
a telephone pole support cable , cutting him in half...the High
Priestess had a very bad run in with some men...almost died...

Sorry...you asked , I am telling it as it was...

As for morals ? I do not believe in "morals"...but , I do believe
in what is right , by my heart...I do not advocate that practice ,
I mentioned...but , it is most certainly utilized...great way to
decimate an intended enemy , emotionally , as well , cause them
to stretch their power resources , by expanding their circle of
protection...via "compression ratio"...condensed field , when
power source is limited , being stronger... just mgieckal knowledge

I prefer to hack a system...so to say...if , and only if...I have to...

And , as I said...with all respect to Shalaye's previous post , and
other's position , regarding silence...that is not our Tradition's
path...Warning is issued...then comes the "deadly silence"...

I am a full believer , in love , compassion , and forgiveness...

Up to a point...I am Irish...:smileroll

[Teresa]

I believe in giving fair warning too. Do not get me wrong at all. I just don't go around saying that I am going to curse someone. I do warn to be careful of one's actions and also that one be ready for consequences for the actions taken if there are any.

I am one of those who does not like to talk about any workings in progress unless I am conversing with a client who has asked me for help. That is kpet private between me and them then.

When you do work for others, it is common courtesy not to talk about what you do for people. You earn a reputation for keeping quiet and also one for successful workings by word of mouth. Granted that you may not admit that to just anyone that asks either.

[Shawn Blackwolf]

I believe in giving fair warning too. Do not get me wrong at all. I just don't go around saying that I am going to curse someone. I do warn to be careful of one's actions and also that one be ready for consequences for the actions taken if there are any.

I am one of those who does not like to talk about any workings in progress unless I am conversing with a client who has asked me for help. That is kpet private between me and them then.

When you do work for others, it is common courtesy not to talk about what you do for people. You earn a reputation for keeping quiet and also one for successful workings by word of mouth. Granted that you may not admit that to just anyone that asks either.

Quoted for Truth and Agreement...nice post...we are similar ,
you and I , in a number of our Ways...old magic...by whatever
"spelling"...:hahugh:

[1111]

Moonlight's Daughter :

Please understand ; I am just using your statement as an
illustration , and example , of what others have also said...

This is not , in any way directed at you , in any negative
way...

That said...

Yes , there is truth , in what you , and Solya have said...
much of this position , however , is based on a person
knowing , and being consciously aware , that a curse has
been placed on them...which is not always , and in many
instances , is not the case...

My Tradition suggests that we do notify the person ahead
of time , they are treading on thin ice , before we curse , if
need be...again , I practice , and teach this , as a last resort...

But , in Faery Tradition , you get us pissed enough...we
will pull out all stops...a person's ability to shield themselves ,
or to curse / attack , is only as strong as their developed will
force , and their contact , and ability , to work with mundane
and mgieckal energies...

Most humans have a very undeveloped will...and their belief
in their abilities , or protection , can be easily undermined...

For instance...what if...just if..someone really wanted to do
something like this ? Would they go straight for a person
they thought might be able to ward against it ?

No...that would be stupid...or , at the least , perhaps ineffective...

You would go for those around them , less able to protect...
to demolish their emotional state , leaving them more open..

But that is only one of many methods , utilized by those who practice these Artz...

Let me put it another way...your human bio - computer , has
a firewall of will force...do you not think any of you , some of
us , from whatever tradition , know how to hack the system ,
or even crash it ?

Perhaps this might help , in the understanding...there is always
a hacker , better than your firewall...if they really set their full
will - desire force into the operation...may take time...maybe a
moon cycle...maybe a year and a day...but it can , has been ,
and will be done , by those who choose that path...

May none of us have to , pursue it ourselves...or ward against it...


( Hilarious synchronicity , if you place any significance to the number...
went to new posts , after posting this...

http://www.mysticwicks.com/images/misc/subscribed.gif http://www.mysticwicks.com/images/buttons/firstnew.gif (http://mysticwicks.com/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=186536) Black magic doesn't work. (http://mysticwicks.com/showthread.php?t=186536) (http://www.mysticwicks.com/images/misc/multipage.gif 1 (http://mysticwicks.com/showthread.php?t=186536) 2 (http://mysticwicks.com/showthread.php?t=186536&page=2) 3 (http://mysticwicks.com/showthread.php?t=186536&page=3) 4 (http://mysticwicks.com/showthread.php?t=186536&page=4) 5 (http://mysticwicks.com/showthread.php?t=186536&page=5) ) Today 2:15 By Shawn Blackwolf 41 Posts ...Views 666
Jeremy Westenn



Kinda funny...LOL...)

Love the end of this post. :rollingla


I believe in giving fair warning too. Do not get me wrong at all. I just don't go around saying that I am going to curse someone. I do warn to be careful of one's actions and also that one be ready for consequences for the actions taken if there are any.

I am one of those who does not like to talk about any workings in progress unless I am conversing with a client who has asked me for help. That is kpet private between me and them then.

When you do work for others, it is common courtesy not to talk about what you do for people. You earn a reputation for keeping quiet and also one for successful workings by word of mouth. Granted that you may not admit that to just anyone that asks either.
:fpraise:

[Jeremy Westenn]

Hello , Brigid...just a cybermoment , please...

Yes , Lunacie , nice post...do remember , the psychic nature
of the feline species...one reason for the witch's cat , and our
large cats , guarding our ancient initiate's temples...

Okay...answer to you , Brigid...

This is a delicate , and "sore" subject , for me...

One reason why I know these things work...and why , I do ,
now , advocate , and teach , what I do...

I , when first exploring the Craft , ( not the Faery Crreayafth ) I
got involved with some rather advanced , yet very unscrupulous ,
and , shall I say , darkened souls...who saw my potential , knew
my bloodlines , etc...I was used , for my will...they trained me ,
in certain techniques , to work with them...

When there occurred a "Witch War" , between covens , in the
area...there was a retual done...a death retual...which I did not
"actively" participate in...Ie: I did not do the calling , but my
energy was tapped into , for the Circle , by my connection to
them..my webline , so to speak , with their Weyyrd...

Within three days , the opposing coven was disbanded...the
High Priest having committed suicide , with two guns to his
head...the second main Priest , running his motorcycle into
a telephone pole support cable , cutting him in half...the High
Priestess had a very bad run in with some men...almost died...

Sorry...you asked , I am telling it as it was...

As for morals ? I do not believe in "morals"...but , I do believe
in what is right , by my heart...I do not advocate that practice ,
I mentioned...but , it is most certainly utilized...great way to
decimate an intended enemy , emotionally , as well , cause them
to stretch their power resources , by expanding their circle of
protection...via "compression ratio"...condensed field , when
power source is limited , being stronger... just mgieckal knowledge

I prefer to hack a system...so to say...if , and only if...I have to...

And , as I said...with all respect to Shalaye's previous post , and
other's position , regarding silence...that is not our Tradition's
path...Warning is issued...then comes the "deadly silence"...

I am a full believer , in love , compassion , and forgiveness...

Up to a point...I am Irish...:smileroll

Forgive me for being nosey but what do you mean by blood lines?

[Shawn Blackwolf]

Though some disbelieve it Jeremy...and that , of course ,
is their choice to do so...my present Tradition , as well
as many , around the world...believe if you have a certain
geographical / geomantic heritage connection...

Ie: Irish Bloodline

You have an ability to tap into the spirits of that land ,
the geomantic current of that land...and the Egregores
of that land , and people , connected to that land...

No matter where you are , on the planet...

And that...is the short answer...:lol:

So...heritage...Irish , Welsh , English , Southern French...
My ancestry in Europe...certain ancestors...some , including
those who desired my "influence" , as well as myself , believe
and for ourselves , know it to be true...I can access certain
power lines of earth , certain Faery Roads , not as easily
accessible to others , not of this heritage...vice versa...I would
have a much harder time , accessing a power line , or a
geomantic power spot , in Australia , than an aboriginally
descended person , living here , in the US...

As I say...not everyone sees things this way...but some do...

[Jeremy Westenn]

Not to be confrontational, but what gives Irish people hold over certain parts of the planet as opposed to other?

Again, curious, curious, don't death spell me!! :fpraise:

[Shawn Blackwolf]

I think you need to reread the post Jeremy...

As I stated...what I felt was pretty clearly...obviously not ,
though...an aboriginally descended person , ( Ie: native
Australian descent ) would be able to access worldlines
in Australia , easier than a person from another world
lineage...not just about Irish , or any other "one" lineage...

Same with Native Americans , here , working with spirits
of the Land...it deals with ties to ancestral lands , and the
spirits , and Egregore ( look it up ) attatched to people , and
geomantic locations...

( P.S. Because the people who wanted my energy were of
Irish heritage...they chose people from those bloodlines , to
work magick with...)

[Shawn Blackwolf]

Something else...then I'm done for the night...

If you want to understand more on this , start looking up
earth energies , worldlines , Faery Roads , ley lines , earth
grid...just for a beginning...look where there are "pockets"
of energy lines , converging...again...a beginning...

[Rudas Starblaze]

I believe in giving fair warning too. Do not get me wrong at all. I just don't go around saying that I am going to curse someone. I do warn to be careful of one's actions and also that one be ready for consequences for the actions taken if there are any.


this is something i also follow. well said Shalaye.
i dont come out and tell anyone what im up to rather its good or bad. if its something bad, i give a fair warning, if after that a person persists... its open season on their ass rather its something i do mystically... or physically. and mind you, what i am willing to do mystically, i would do physically. the only downfall to physically is this thing called "law".

(FYI: i had loads more to post but didnt.)

[Teresa]

I think you need to reread the post Jeremy...

As I stated...what I felt was pretty clearly...obviously not ,
though...an aboriginally descended person , ( Ie: native
Australian descent ) would be able to access worldlines
in Australia , easier than a person from another world
lineage...not just about Irish , or any other "one" lineage...

Same with Native Americans , here , working with spirits
of the Land...it deals with ties to ancestral lands , and the
spirits , and Egregore ( look it up ) attatched to people , and
geomantic locations...

( P.S. Because the people who wanted my energy were of
Irish heritage...they chose people from those bloodlines , to
work magick with...)
This is a practice that is widely known to be used in my tradition. I draw from the ancestral spirits and also work with them. Drawning upon those energies is like stepping on the accelator of a car! It gives it more "umph," so to speak.

My family is also one that would be considered to believe in the bloodline viewpoint as well. They always said the certain family gifts skipped generations. My grandma recognized the gifts that I hold because she also had them and so did her Grandma and so on the story continues.

[Shawn Blackwolf]

This is a practice that is widely known to be used in my tradition. I draw from the ancestral spirits and also work with them. Drawning upon those energies is like stepping on the accelator of a car! It gives it more "umph," so to speak.

My family is also one that would be considered to believe in the bloodline viewpoint as well. They always said the certain family gifts skipped generations. My grandma recognized the gifts that I hold because she also had them and so did her Grandma and so on the story continues.

Very nice , Shalaye...

To continue along this line of thought , for a moment...

This is where I must bring in some number - letter formulas...

Known as the science of Gematria , for those who don't know ,
or are not familiar with it...in our Faery Tradition , the words :

Ancestral Spirets = 816
( Our spelling of Spirit , as "ret" ,
is the sound of one of our symbols )

Otherworld = 815

So Mote It Be = 815

So , by what we term , and know as a harmonic linkage , these
have a deep connection...an interweave , on the astral level...

As well...and Shalaye , you might find this interesting...

Our Faery Tree , which is posted in one of my Rabbit Hole threads
has 11 dimensions , including the Underworld , and Realm of the
Ancestors...now , the pair of runes , linked in our Tree , to the
Underworld , create the word , by letter value of one , and sound
of another :

"Ashe"

Which any who come from a Vodoun , or related system , could
tell you , is a Gift of Power , given by Ancestral Spirits...

We also teach...The Telluric Current of Earth , as the carrier wave ,
for the four astral Elemental Currents , of Water , Air , Fire , and
Earth , is accessed through Ancestral Spirets...

Interestingly, to us...

Telluric Current of Earth = 896

Earth , Air , Fire , Water = 896

And , by itself :

Telluric Current = 455

Year And A Day = 455

Mgieck Retual = 454

Again , what we see , and know , as astral resonance...linked...

Now , as for the Bloodline...

You brought up , perhaps unwittingly , a most important point ,
Shalaye , which has deep implications for those who can read
between the lines of suppression of women , and the passing of
power , changing from matrilineal , to patrilineal inheritance...

We know , the Wietchcrreayafth , as we spell it...descends through
the matrilineal lineage...the power to access , set in motion , and
route the energies...and that that ability , does skip a generation ,
though not always...

The rune Aidall , known today as Othilla , meant to us , specifically
Matrilineal Inheritance...when I add it's number value , in our
system , to the number value for the word :

Wietchcrreayafth + Aidall = 682 + 100 = 782

And 782 , is a major number boundary , as the value of a very
specific arrangement of runes...another important number boundary
for us , is 2636 ( plus one , minus one )...

The Formula , by Gematria :

The Wietchcrreayafth : Passed Down Through Woman :
Matrilineal Inheritance = 2637

And , as the rune arrangement of 782 , is composed of two
identical columns of runes , each equalling 391...it is interesting
to note :

Matrilineal = 392

Hope the numbers were not too much for most...info for understanding ,
is located in a subforum here...and in my class threads...if needed...

And Shalaye...I hope you , if anyone...found some useful
information , and linkages there...at the least...confirmation...

[Brigid Rowan]

Well, even though the post wasn't to me, I found it fascinating. Im Irish, Scot and Flemish..but my family has been in one area since 1650 or so. My people were on land right across the street from my house, and owned property in this general area for 350+ years. I feel a DEEP connect to this area, that transcends easily described feelings...

Then my mom's family were right off the boat from Ireland in the 1900's...and I feel a deep connection to that as well. I know you will appreciate when I say these 2 places 'resonate' with me strongly. It is like something in my life force, my essence...Not to over-romantacize it, but it is something at my very core.

[Shawn Blackwolf]

Well, even though the post wasn't to me, I found it fascinating. Im Irish, Scot and Flemish..but my family has been in one area since 1650 or so. My people were on land right across the street from my house, and owned property in this general area for 350+ years. I feel a DEEP connect to this area, that transcends easily described feelings...

Then my mom's family were right off the boat from Ireland in the 1900's...and I feel a deep connection to that as well. I know you will appreciate when I say these 2 places 'resonate' with me strongly. It is like something in my life force, my essence...Not to over-romantacize it, but it is something at my very core.

Appreciated...and fully understood , Brigid...including underlying
implications of why one does not want to piss the feisty squirrel
off...:smileroll

[skilly-nilly]

I think that if the Irish were inherently better at 'black' or retributional Magic then Ireland wouldn't have been an occupied country for 800 years.

I think that citing 'bloodlines' is a slippery slope to declaring yourself better than someone else due to your ancestry, and that's bulls**t. I think that every human being is related in their human-ness; and that every human being has the capacity to do vengeful, self-seeking, short-sighted, vicious actions (Magic included) to others. It's not your race that makes you capable of 'evil', it's your human nature.

Every ethnic group has a history of behaving badly. To make any portion of some bad behaviour dependant on ethnicity is to make (imo) a spurious us/them distinction----'they' did that, but myself and my people ('us') are not guilty of badness.

I believe that it's a question of personal choice--everyone decides for hirself where they draw the line:
I would attack someone who attacked me/who attacked my loved ones/who attacked innocent victims/who had attacked my loved ones innocent victims in the past and seemed likely to do it again/who trespassed on my property/who didn't do what I told them to/all of the above but I would warn them first/all of the above without warning/if they had a different religion from me/if they were Armenians......

I think the bottom line on a discussion of 'black' Magic is that all humans have the inherent capacity for violence.

[Lunacie]

I think that if the Irish were inherently better at 'black' or retributional Magic then Ireland wouldn't have been an occupied country for 800 years.

I think that citing 'bloodlines' is a slippery slope to declaring yourself better than someone else due to your ancestry, and that's bulls**t. I think that every human being is related in their human-ness; and that every human being has the capacity to do vengeful, self-seeking, short-sighted, vicious actions (Magic included) to others. It's not your race that makes you capable of 'evil', it's your human nature.

Every ethnic group has a history of behaving badly. To make any portion of some bad behaviour dependant on ethnicity is to make (imo) a spurious us/them distinction----'they' did that, but myself and my people ('us') are not guilty of badness.

I believe that it's a question of personal choice--everyone decides for hirself where they draw the line:
I would attack someone who attacked me/who attacked my loved ones/who attacked innocent victims/who had attacked my loved ones innocent victims in the past and seemed likely to do it again/who trespassed on my property/who didn't do what I told them to/all of the above but I would warn them first/all of the above without warning/if they had a different religion from me/if they were Armenians......

I think the bottom line on a discussion of 'black' Magic is that all humans have the inherent capacity for violence.

:huh: What thread have you been reading?

[Brigid Rowan]

I think that if the Irish were inherently better at 'black' or retributional Magic then Ireland wouldn't have been an occupied country for 800 years.

I think that citing 'bloodlines' is a slippery slope to declaring yourself better than someone else due to your ancestry, and that's bulls**t. I think that every human being is related in their human-ness; and that every human being has the capacity to do vengeful, self-seeking, short-sighted, vicious actions (Magic included) to others. It's not your race that makes you capable of 'evil', it's your human nature.

Every ethnic group has a history of behaving badly. To make any portion of some bad behaviour dependant on ethnicity is to make (imo) a spurious us/them distinction----'they' did that, but myself and my people ('us') are not guilty of badness.

I believe that it's a question of personal choice--everyone decides for hirself where they draw the line:
I would attack someone who attacked me/who attacked my loved ones/who attacked innocent victims/who had attacked my loved ones innocent victims in the past and seemed likely to do it again/who trespassed on my property/who didn't do what I told them to/all of the above but I would warn them first/all of the above without warning/if they had a different religion from me/if they were Armenians......

I think the bottom line on a discussion of 'black' Magic is that all humans have the inherent capacity for violence.



... I think he was talking about that ALL of us have the same ability for good/evil, but that having ancestors that were born/raised in an area for many generations (having a homeland as it were) connected you to certain aspects of the environment. Like the Black Hills for the Lakota, the Highlands for Scots, the sea for Vikings....and that these things factor in deeply into belief, magic, religion, and point of view.

[Moonlight's Daughter]

Moonlight's Daughter :

Please understand ; I am just using your statement as an
illustration , and example , of what others have also said...

This is not , in any way directed at you , in any negative
way...

That said...

Yes , there is truth , in what you , and Solya have said...
much of this position , however , is based on a person
knowing , and being consciously aware , that a curse has
been placed on them...which is not always , and in many
instances , is not the case...

My Tradition suggests that we do notify the person ahead
of time , they are treading on thin ice , before we curse , if
need be...again , I practice , and teach this , as a last resort...

But , in Faery Tradition , you get us pissed enough...we
will pull out all stops...a person's ability to shield themselves ,
or to curse / attack , is only as strong as their developed will
force , and their contact , and ability , to work with mundane
and mgieckal energies...

Most humans have a very undeveloped will...and their belief
in their abilities , or protection , can be easily undermined...

For instance...what if...just if..someone really wanted to do
something like this ? Would they go straight for a person
they thought might be able to ward against it ?

No...that would be stupid...or , at the least , perhaps ineffective...

You would go for those around them , less able to protect...
to demolish their emotional state , leaving them more open..

But that is only one of many methods , utilized by those who practice these Artz...

Let me put it another way...your human bio - computer , has
a firewall of will force...do you not think any of you , some of
us , from whatever tradition , know how to hack the system ,
or even crash it ?

Perhaps this might help , in the understanding...there is always
a hacker , better than your firewall...if they really set their full
will - desire force into the operation...may take time...maybe a
moon cycle...maybe a year and a day...but it can , has been ,
and will be done , by those who choose that path...

May none of us have to , pursue it ourselves...or ward against it...


( Hilarious synchronicity , if you place any significance to the number...
went to new posts , after posting this...

http://www.mysticwicks.com/images/misc/subscribed.gif http://www.mysticwicks.com/images/buttons/firstnew.gif (http://mysticwicks.com/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=186536) Black magic doesn't work. (http://mysticwicks.com/showthread.php?t=186536) (http://www.mysticwicks.com/images/misc/multipage.gif 1 (http://mysticwicks.com/showthread.php?t=186536) 2 (http://mysticwicks.com/showthread.php?t=186536&page=2) 3 (http://mysticwicks.com/showthread.php?t=186536&page=3) 4 (http://mysticwicks.com/showthread.php?t=186536&page=4) 5 (http://mysticwicks.com/showthread.php?t=186536&page=5) ) Today 2:15 By Shawn Blackwolf 41 Posts ...Views 666
Jeremy Westenn


Kinda funny...LOL...)


I understand what you are saying but then I also beleive everything happens for a reason-so everything that happens to me can have a positive outcome! even bad things-they can jump start our growth.

Now that doesnt mean I dont defend myself if I have to. And I dont usually attract that sort of thing, for the most part I am a live and let live person unless someone is bieng hurt that I care about-even then, magic is the last thing I would concider using.

[Shawn Blackwolf]

I understand what you are saying but then I also beleive everything happens for a reason-so everything that happens to me can have a positive outcome! even bad things-they can jump start our growth.

Now that doesnt mean I dont defend myself if I have to. And I dont usually attract that sort of thing, for the most part I am a live and let live person unless someone is bieng hurt that I care about-even then, magic is the last thing I would concider using.

Agreed , and confirmed , as far as your view , and choice...

I also , believe everything has a reason behind it...and inherent
positives , within every negative...glad that you choose to defend yourself...

Yet...I know there was / is a reason , I recieved the information ,
and direct initiation I did...so for me , mgieck comes naturally...

Though systems , and retual , may be sometimes complex , my
life would be lacking , without mgieck , and the utilization , thereof

Sort of like breathing...:lol:...each to their own...

[Moonlight's Daughter]

Agreed , and confirmed , as far as your view , and choice...

I also , believe everything has a reason behind it...and inherent
positives , within every negative...glad that you choose to defend yourself...

Yet...I know there was / is a reason , I recieved the information ,
and direct initiation I did...so for me , mgieck comes naturally...

Though systems , and retual , may be sometimes complex , my
life would be lacking , without mgieck , and the utilization , thereof

Sort of like breathing...:lol:...each to their own...

LOL-well magic is a part of my life, but I do everything on the mundane level first most of the time. I focus on more of the religious aspect of my path.

I also am proficant in crytal healing and use of the pendulum. I just tend to not do things against people as I found, at least for me, that carrying around anger and the negitive tends to do more harm to me than anyone else. (that is just me though, whatever works for you works for you)

[Teresa]

I think that if the Irish were inherently better at 'black' or retributional Magic then Ireland wouldn't have been an occupied country for 800 years.

I think that citing 'bloodlines' is a slippery slope to declaring yourself better than someone else due to your ancestry, and that's bulls**t. I think that every human being is related in their human-ness; and that every human being has the capacity to do vengeful, self-seeking, short-sighted, vicious actions (Magic included) to others.

I of all people have never viewed or declared myself better than anyone. I was stating that gifts have followed thru our bloodline skipping generations. IN NO WAY, was I trying to imply that I am any better than the next person! Thank You very much!


The references were to what ties us together and makes us stronger. The energies that we draw upon that gives more strength then just the one person alone.

[Shawn Blackwolf]

LOL-well magic is a part of my life, but I do everything on the mundane level first most of the time. I focus on more of the religious aspect of my path.

I also am proficant in crytal healing and use of the pendulum. I just tend to not do things against people as I found, at least for me, that carrying around anger and the negitive tends to do more harm to me than anyone else. (that is just me though, whatever works for you works for you)

Thank you for the conversation , Moonlight's Daughter...

I do have to attend to some errands...however , for now...

Understood , regarding mundane level...are you familiar with
Crowley's tale , regarding a letter to someone ? He does explain
this concept , most well...

As far as religion...well , most members who have seen my posts
up till now...know my only religion , is sex...

I will worship at the feet of my beloved...only...

But that is a whole 'nother thing...:lol:

And I prefer the native method of dealing with troublesome
situations...you do not carry around , nor harbor anger...

You do what you must , or choose to do , and go on with
your life...cut and dried...no attachments...

Have a great day...nice to meet you , on board...

[Teresa]

Very nice , Shalaye...

To continue along this line of thought , for a moment...

This is where I must bring in some number - letter formulas...

Known as the science of Gematria , for those who don't know ,
or are not familiar with it...in our Faery Tradition , the words :


Ancestral Spirets = 816
( Our spelling of Spirit , as "ret" ,
is the sound of one of our symbols )

Otherworld = 815

So Mote It Be = 815

So , by what we term , and know as a harmonic linkage , these
have a deep connection...an interweave , on the astral level...

As well...and Shalaye , you might find this interesting...

Our Faery Tree , which is posted in one of my Rabbit Hole threads
has 11 dimensions , including the Underworld , and Realm of the
Ancestors...now , the pair of runes , linked in our Tree , to the
Underworld , create the word , by letter value of one , and sound
of another :

"Ashe"

Which any who come from a Vodoun , or related system , could
tell you , is a Gift of Power , given by Ancestral Spirits...

We also teach...The Telluric Current of Earth , as the carrier wave ,
for the four astral Elemental Currents , of Water , Air , Fire , and
Earth , is accessed through Ancestral Spirets...

Interestingly, to us...

Telluric Current of Earth = 896

Earth , Air , Fire , Water = 896

And , by itself :

Telluric Current = 455

Year And A Day = 455

Mgieck Retual = 454

Again , what we see , and know , as astral resonance...linked...

Now , as for the Bloodline...

You brought up , perhaps unwittingly , a most important point ,
Shalaye , which has deep implications for those who can read
between the lines of suppression of women , and the passing of
power , changing from matrilineal , to patrilineal inheritance...

We know , the Wietchcrreayafth , as we spell it...descends through
the matrilineal lineage...the power to access , set in motion , and
route the energies...and that that ability , does skip a generation ,
though not always...

The rune Aidall , known today as Othilla , meant to us , specifically
Matrilineal Inheritance...when I add it's number value , in our
system , to the number value for the word :

Wietchcrreayafth + Aidall = 682 + 100 = 782

And 782 , is a major number boundary , as the value of a very
specific arrangement of runes...another important number boundary
for us , is 2636 ( plus one , minus one )...

The Formula , by Gematria :

The Wietchcrreayafth : Passed Down Through Woman :
Matrilineal Inheritance = 2637

And , as the rune arrangement of 782 , is composed of two
identical columns of runes , each equalling 391...it is interesting
to note :

Matrilineal = 392

Hope the numbers were not too much for most...info for understanding ,
is located in a subforum here...and in my class threads...if needed...

And Shalaye...I hope you , if anyone...found some useful
information , and linkages there...at the least...confirmation...

Ashe is very important. I find this very interesting indeed..... and
Yes, thanks for the confirmation and also valuable information. Stay well my wise friend!

[Shawn Blackwolf]

I of all people have never viewed or declared myself better than anyone. I was stating that gifts have followed thru our bloodline skipping generations. IN NO WAY, was I trying to imply that I am any better than the next person! Thank You very much!


The references were to what ties us together and makes us stronger. The energies that we draw upon that gives more strength then just the one person alone.

This is what I was saying , also , Shalaye...what I have always
tried to say on this board...some of us have differing traditions ,
different ways...sometimes not revealed to the outsiders of a
tradition...sometimes we do not follow religion...but choose to
practice mgieck , by whatever spelling...some of us do not see
gods , or goddesses , the way some choose to , and worship them...

Some of us even believe , or know , in our hearts and souls , it is
our right , and / or destiny , to become gods...

Does that mean we are claiming to be better ?

No , just means our Traditions , follow , and teach , a different
path than others...that's all...and that is perfectly fine...

[Shawn Blackwolf]

Ashe is very important. I find this very interesting indeed..... and
Yes, thanks for the confirmation and also valuable information. Stay well my wise friend!


I am honored every time we speak , my friend...

I see you as a Wise Woman...in every sense of the word...

[skilly-nilly]

I don't believe this but am I the only Pagan/magical practitioner that seems to have inferred that most of the Wiccan/Pagan community seems to espouse this belief? That curses and spells against someone, negatively and in a not nice fashion, actually won't do anything? I've gotten this idea a lot from different people.

- Jeremy

I think that using Magic is like using anything---if it works, then it does so without reference to the target. Many people are uncomfortable with Negative Magic and they dis-empower it by not believing in its efficacy.


Sort of but not exactly what Moonlight's Daughter said:


Well I look at it as that if I fear something, the more I will draw it to me-so if I dont fear something, the power that thing has is diminished.

So using that-if someone puts a curse on me, then it might work-but if I dont believe in it-its effect on me is diminished.

For example-I have a fear of black filters in swimming pools. If I take the time to walk on them, look at them underwater, and work through that fear-they no longer have power over me. Same thing with anything really.

What you fear, you create.


I agree that fearing something gives it additional power over you; but I also believe that Negative Magic has an inherent power--the power of the Black Magician.

I think that the impulse towards retributional violence is a part of core human nature. I think everyone has it. Some people would only resort to violence in defence of themselves or their loved ones and some people would do violence to get their own way or if they felt slighted.
Ot1h, I don't feel that Magic used to curse has any different 'power' than any Magic.

Otoh, I don't think that disbelief makes any more difference in protecting against violent Magic than in protecting against getting punched. In both cases, not believing that it 'can' happen leaves you open to attack.

On the gripping hand, a big burly guy packs a meaner punch and a powerful Magic practicioner would send a meaner curse. But I think that to say that a particular ethnic group is inherently better at 'black' Magic denies that the impulse to violence is fundamental to human nature.

So, it seemed to me that Shawn implied that the 'evil' coven picked him because he is 'Irish' rather than because he is powerful (as obviously he is):


I , when first exploring the Craft , ( not the Faery Crreayafth ) I got involved with some rather advanced , yet very unscrupulous , and , shall I say , darkened souls...who saw my potential , knew my bloodlines , etc...I was used , for my will...they trained me , in certain techniques , to work with them


...my present Tradition , as well as many , around the world...believe if you have a certaingeographical / geomantic heritage connection...Ie: Irish Bloodline

You have an ability to tap into the spirits of that land , the geomantic current of that land...and the Egregores of that land , and people , connected to that land...No matter where you are , on the planet...And that...is the short answer...:lol:

Which would be making a statement about the Irish rather than about humanity. I don't think that the Irish (or any other ethnic group) are better at meanness than anyone else. Everyone has mean potential and there's someone in every grouping conceivable that's the mean champion.

[Shawn Blackwolf]

Actually , that is merely a misreading of my posts...

"Ie : " , means , as we know , generally..."for example"...

I was using the "Irish Bloodlines" as an example , for
Jeremy , in a post , to illustrate my point...nothing more...

When he made the same assumption , I did my best to clear
it up , on post #52...

And , as far as the Coven...which if you want to use the term
evil , so be it...yes , they chose me for being Irish bloodline...
As well other reasons , including my motherline...as we spoke
of , on this thread...because they were Irish...and they valued
that lineage...

But...aboriginal people , working magic , here , in the United
States , would , perhaps , do the same thing...seek their own
kin lineage , to work with , first , due to their ability to tap
into the ancestral spirets they worked with , better than someone
not of the lineage line...perhaps not...yet I am aware of many who
do choose on that basis , from different traditions...not , in any
way , shape , or form , a racist decision , as some groups do...

Just lineage orientation , whether previously trained , or not...

So...I was saying nothing about the Irish being better , in the
Dark Artz...but yes...we are famous for our temper...:lol:

[Shawn Blackwolf]

Now...for anyone interested...as I suggested to Jeremy...

A study of the worldlines , leylines , etc...of Northern Europe ,
as well , certain other places of concentrated Earth Energies ,
around the world...shall perhaps prove fruitfull for you...

And help you understand...if Ancestral Spirets , did act as an
access gate , into the telluric current , and more , into the astral
currents of earth , air , fire , and water...on an amplified basis...
( see Shalaye's post , regarding extra "umph" )...then perhaps...
where the energy pockets were concentrated around the world...
the people associated wih that geomantic location...lineage , and
bloodline...perhaps , might just have an easier time , tapping into
those energy pockets , and lines...remotely , even , from any location
on Earth...

Do understand...there were definite reasons for temples ,
or sacred sites , located often , over subterranean caverns ,
underground water , or on the convergence of leylines...

"Even" Crowley's house / temple , in Bolkeshine...( hint , hint )

You shall find interesting pockets of energy , and convergence
of leylines , around the world...and the peoples associated with
magick , from those areas...equally so...not saying anyone would
be "better"...just interesting associations , if one truly spends
time...( maybe a year and a day ? )...studying it...my minimum...

Just sayin'...:smileroll

[Lunacie]

Shawn, as I understand it, the ley lines haven't been as well mapped in the US as they have been in Europe. Do you have any suggestions for finding out about the ley lines here in the US?

[Shawn Blackwolf]

This is true , on one level , Lunacie...yet , who do you
think , would hold this knowledge , in the United States ?

Or , should I say...Turtle Island ?

Look for sacred sites...they shall give you keys...look for
government installations , built over old native sites ,
as well...there are reasons for that...of course...

Same as others built their cathedrals over our old sites ,
and temples...connect the dots...also , underground water ,
caverns , and tunnels...these shall all help...get a spelunkers
map , of such...

Just for a beginning...by the way...think of a place in Ohio ,
for another beginning...

The number value of another arrangement of runes , is 894...

Serpent Mound + Egg = 895

Just a hint...:bigblue:

[Shaman7]

I often have heard it said the bad things that happen to people are not curses but just there own "lack of personal responsibility". Which tends to always be the White Lighter way of blaming the victim YMMV.

Examples being a person assumes there cursed due to a broken ankle, losing there job and there health going bad.

...

I seem to recall I think Buddha stating living a Healthy and moral life being a good defense against black magic. Make the energy have to work to be of effect.

Funny you mentioned breaking an ankle from a curse... please see this thread (http://mysticwicks.com/showthread.php?t=188816) for the background story on this (you can ignore the Hitler dream). Because I was not grounded, got a little too flighty and shot my mouth off, I got brought to the ground fairly quickly. This relates to my words on the boards two nights ago, as well as my actions in the bar yesterday evening, though it definitely started on the boards. Basically, I dropped my guard to verbally 'attack' this guy, stoopid me.

There was a warning shot, so to speak, to the effect of "I'm not schizo ... you will pay for this". I didn't catch that post till after the fact, btw. Yea, I do believe that this kinda thing happens, though I think that it does happen for a reason. If you piss someone off, I think, you give them that added energy to fire back at you. For me, it now serves as a reminder to keep my head out of my arse, and be a little more tolerant. So yea, its bad and good at the same time.

[lunatala]

I agree with most of the posts here. To say "only good magic works, but curses and negative magic arent real" sounds pretty retarded to me. Sounds like someone someone trying to make their beliefs politically correct to me. It has been said many times, magic is not good or evil it is the person who is casting who dictates what magic is.

[bellamandu]

ive heard people say that many times as well. its a balance of things. its ridiculous to think that only good spells will work and bad spells wont. i think its just a way for practitioners to try and eliminate the use of black magic from people who dont really know any better, and might end up hurting themselves along with whoever they are casting the spells against.

[~Belladonna~]

"Black" Magick doesn't work? OOOOOOOK then! Tell that to those who've been on the receiving end of someone's Hex or Curse. I'm pretty sure they'd beg to differ :eyebrow:

All this hogwash I hear and read about "Well if you don't believe in it then it can't and won't effect you." Yeah right! You send that energy to its target and it's going to hit it, you better believe. If the Spell is cast correctly, with enough energy and will it is going to work, and probably more so on a person who doesn't believe in it as they're not prepared and have no defences in place.

Plus, how can someone say "black" Magick doesn't work. If that's the case then neither does the good stuff ^--^

Just my 2p worth *shrugs*

[AllAmericanGirl]

Well it depends..
I once heard that Micheal Jackson went to a voodoo priest to have a hex put on someone and it didn't work. He even had to sacrifice an animal. :giggle:
But I think over all negative magic can have an impact.

[Theres]

"Black" Magick doesn't work? OOOOOOOK then! Tell that to those who've been on the receiving end of someone's Hex or Curse. I'm pretty sure they'd beg to differ
then their will was weak.


All this hogwash I hear and read about "Well if you don't believe in it then it can't and won't effect you." Yeah right! You send that energy to its target and it's going to hit it, you better believe.
yanno, it always amazes me that people who make claim to the effective use of magic, by definition a force of will, are so ready to believe that they cannot repel this same act from someone else.
if your will is strong enough to cast, then why would it not be strong enough to defend? and if it isn't, then maybe you aren't as proficent as you thought.

i guarantee that no one i know or know of can cast anything upon me that i am not willing, on some level, to accept.

period.

[Lunacie]

then their will was weak.


yanno, it always amazes me that people who make claim to the effective use of magic, by definition a force of will, are so ready to believe that they cannot repel this same act from someone else.
if your will is strong enough to cast, then why would it not be strong enough to defend? and if it isn't, then maybe you aren't as proficent as you thought.

i guarantee that no one i know or know of can cast anything upon me that i am not willing, on some level, to accept.

period.

Ah, but there are some people who on some level believe they deserve crap, or believe that crap is all they are destined to get, and they are wide open for such "black magic".

People who are more balanced - or maybe more cynical - are a tougher sell. I remember in my early days of becoming a healer I had a man ask me for some healing energy for a torn ligament in his arm - I literally poured energy into him, and it simply ran off like water off a duck's back. He was holding onto his pain and his injury for some reason. Maybe he believed that he deserved only pain in his life. Maybe it was his way of making conversation with others - "Hey, you know what happened to my arm?" Anyway, it was an excellent lesson for me that I am not all powerful and that even if someone says they want healing energy, unconsciously they may not want it so much.

And then you have the incredibly naive, like I was the first time I got socked with a curse and had no idea that people could really do that and no idea I could possibly block it. I say possibly, because there was a whole coven casting that particular curse, so even if I had been more knowledgable and experienced, I might not have been able to block the negative energy completely.

[Theres]

Ah, but there are some people who on some level believe they deserve crap, or believe that crap is all they are destined to get, and they are wide open for such "black magic".
oh, i agree whole-heartedly. but these are people whose will is weak, they are willing to accept the force of someone else's will. and probably not just magically either. these are people who are probably easily manipulated on mundane levels as well.



People who are more balanced - or maybe more cynical - are a tougher sell.
damn straight! :thumbsup:


I remember in my early days of becoming a healer I had a man ask me for some healing energy for a torn ligament in his arm - I literally poured energy into him, and it simply ran off like water off a duck's back. He was holding onto his pain and his injury for some reason. Maybe he believed that he deserved only pain in his life.
in which case his misery was his own doing, and not the result of any outside influence (accident, magic, or other)

[Thyrsos]

Curses, hexes, negative energy, black magic, call it what you like; it's all completely impotent unless the victim believes that it has power over them. Moreover, these kinds of efforts merely boomerang on the evil-wannabe.:giggle:

[Lunacie]

Curses, hexes, negative energy, black magic, call it what you like; it's all completely impotent unless the victim believes that it has power over them. Moreover, these kinds of efforts merely boomerang on the evil-wannabe.:giggle:

Then how do you explain my being affected by a curse that I didn't know was being cast on my then-boyfriend and myself, when I believed that magic was a fairy tale?

Sometimes curses boomerang back onto the caster but that's not a given in every situation by any means.

Do you have any personal experiences of either sort or are you just repeating what someone else told you about negative magic?

[Xentor]

Curses, hexes, negative energy, black magic, call it what you like; it's all completely impotent unless the victim believes that it has power over them. Moreover, these kinds of efforts merely boomerang on the evil-wannabe.:giggle:
Just like the truck hurdling at you on the side of the highway doesn't have any impact on those that refuse to believe so?

[BlackLili]

Just like the truck hurdling at you on the side of the highway doesn't have any impact on those that refuse to believe so?
"I reject your reality and substitute my own!"

Typical Discordian/Erisian response.

Sometimes it works.

Sometimes you are, as X pointed out, "squish like grape."

[~Belladonna~]

Curses, hexes, negative energy, black magic, call it what you like; it's all completely impotent unless the victim believes that it has power over them. Moreover, these kinds of efforts merely boomerang on the evil-wannabe.:giggle:

OOOOOOOK then, if you say so :thumbsup: :mmm: :lol:

[Lunacie]

And of course, when it does work, the target simply chalks it up to "a run of bad luck" because "black magic" isn't real the same way "white magic" is. :smileroll

[Hunger]

Teh bibble says yay to black magic:

Genesis 19:10-12 (King James Version)


10But the men put forth their hand, and pulled Lot into the house to them, and shut to the door.
11And they smote the men that were at the door of the house with blindness, both small and great: so that they wearied themselves to find the door.
12And the men said unto Lot, Hast thou here any besides? son in law, and thy sons, and thy daughters, and whatsoever thou hast in the city, bring them out of this place:

Even teh laird likes death magic-

Exodus 12:28-30 (King James Version)




28And the children of Israel went away, and did as the LORD had commanded Moses and Aaron, so did they.
29And it came to pass, that at midnight the LORD smote all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh that sat on his throne unto the firstborn of the captive that was in the dungeon; and all the firstborn of cattle.
30And Pharaoh rose up in the night, he, and all his servants, and all the Egyptians; and there was a great cry in Egypt; for there was not a house where there was not one dead.

Curses= a firm buggering for thine faux

NUMBERS 22:6
Come now therefore, I pray thee, curse me this people; for they are too mighty for me: peradventure I shall prevail, that we may smite them, and that I may drive them out of the land: for I wot that he whom thou blessest is blessed, and he whom thou cursest is cursed.

Death magic and other forms of black magic including Necromancy (the valley of dry bones), curses and magical pestilences (such as when David numbered the people) were common not only in hebraic, christian, nordic, muslim, shinto, sufi, nearly all tribal religions, many eastern religions etc. The druids and what we know of paleolithic pagan cultures indicate the practice of human sacrifice, even reflected in the norse practice of Blo't.

Symbolic spiritualistic cannibalism occurs on a regular basis, as during christian sacraments of communion in which according to the clergy the bread and wine is spiritually transfigured into the blood and flesh of christ.

May you all live in interesting times.:evilway::deviltail

[Xentor]

(start sarcasm)

The Bible says it, so it must be true!

(end of sarcasm)

[Hunger]

(start sarcasm)

The Bible says it, so it must be true!

(end of sarcasm)

Exactly, believe or be smitten.

[Xentor]

Exactly, believe or be smitten.
Try me.

[Hunger]

*cowers*

Forgot for a moment that moderators are lesser gods of 1's and 0's and not to be messed with.

Forgive me my lord, Eris made me do it.
:fpraise:
:hehehehe:

[Xentor]

;)

[Lunacie]

*cowers*

Forgot for a moment that moderators are lesser gods of 1's and 0's and not to be messed with.

Forgive me my lord, Eris made me do it.
:fpraise:
:hehehehe:

Lesser gods?

I thought they were merely Avatars of the God and Goddess here. :hehehe:

[~Belladonna~]

And of course, when it does work, the target simply chalks it up to "a run of bad luck" because "black magic" isn't real the same way "white magic" is. :smileroll

Yep, exactly, Lunacie :T

[Thyrsos]

Then how do you explain my being affected by a curse that I didn't know was being cast on my then-boyfriend and myself, when I believed that magic was a fairy tale?

Well it worked out for the best, now didn't it?

[Shawn Blackwolf]

Well it worked out for the best, now didn't it?

You avoided Lunacie's question...your answer has nothing
to do , with whether the spell worked , or not...and having
heard this story , more than once...( not that I mind at all )

I know , it did work , and cause problems...

So...an answer to the question ... forthcoming , or not ?

[Thyrsos]

You avoided Lunacie's question...your answer has nothing
to do , with whether the spell worked , or not...and having
heard this story , more than once...( not that I mind at all )

I know , it did work , and cause problems...

So...an answer to the question ... forthcoming , or not ?

You are right. She was the victim of a curse, and the only remedy is for her to send me all her money in small unmarked denominations so that I may cleanse it of evil and then send it back. Only together can we hope to conquer these Forces of Darkness.

[Shawn Blackwolf]

Gee...what big words you have...:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

Yeah , I look forward to Lunacie's , and others , answers to you...

That , will be a riot...:uhhuhuh:



You are right. She was the victim of a curse, and the only remedy is for her to send me all her money in small unmarked denominations so that I may cleanse it of evil and then send it back. Only together can we hope to conquer these Forces of Darkness.

[Xentor]

You are right. She was the victim of a curse, and the only remedy is for her to send me all her money in small unmarked denominations so that I may cleanse it of evil and then send it back. Only together can we hope to conquer these Forces of Darkness.

At least your sense of sarcasm has developed nicely.

[WitchyLady777]

In my trad we do believe in curses, hexes and the like, as very strong, much deserved retribution, as justice. But I'm talking it's for child molesters and worse, not for some bimbo who came along and stole your daughter's boyfriend. When you go to that level, even if it is justified, it's VERY serious business because there is always a price to be paid, even when doing benign work. You think HARD about going there, and the consequences....

Can it work, yes.

Would you tell the person being cursed?

Maybe, but I think it's far more effective if you don't tell them myself...

Some of the most potent magick is done in utter silence, and stays that way, if it really wants to get the job done....

[Lunacie]

Well it worked out for the best, now didn't it?


Not really.

I was so freaked out that I stayed in a repressive church (Church of Christ Christian) for another 15 years before getting so fed up that I left. And by then I was so fed up with religion in general that I didn't want to find another one. It was only when the goddess came to me in a vision that I began looking at Wicca as a path.

And it didn't work out very well for one member of the coven that was manipulated into sending that curse against my former hubby and myself. Either the curse rebounded or he felt so guilty... he committed suicide a day later. I believe the coven fell apart with the death of their high priest.