Pagan vs. New Age

[Sage Rainsong]

Okay so I shamelessly stole this question idea from the Deo's Shadow podcast but I think that it is an interesting question. Often, in book stores, and in many people's minds the new age and Pagan communities are linked, almost inseparably. So, is Paganism part of the new age? What do they have in common? How are they different?

[Zephyrstorm]

The university of Edinburgh published a book Nature Religion Today: Paganism in the Modern World ed. by Joanne Pearson, Richard H. Roberts and Geoffrey Samuel. Chapter 4 is a lovely article Assumed Affinities: Wicca and the New Age also by Ms. Pearson.

Among other points, Ms. Pearson has the following to say:
The undisputed diversity of New Age practices can be understood in terms of a vast array of characteristics, none of which applies universally except for, perhaps, the one unifying principle proposed by Paul Heelas: the 'authority of the individual.' However, Heelas has formulated three principles which, he claims, lie 'at the heart' of New Age teaching. The first and second of these are statements, 'Your lives are not working,' and ' You are gods and goddesses in exile'; the third is an instruction, 'Let go/Drop it'...

She then proceeds to compare and contrast the New Age with Wicca specifically -
First, she points out that Wicca does not work off of the assumption that one's life is not working. Instead the author points out that Wiccans affirm life as a positive thing.
Secondly, she points out that "Wiccans do not claim to be seeking perfection; rather, they say that they are developing towards 'wholeness' or 'completeness.' Such 'wholeness' contains, by its very nature, all of an individual's traits, not just those listed by Heelas above which comprise the perfect New Age inner life... By contrast, there is evidence that although a small number of Wiccans do not believe in the gods as external reality... the majority of the Wiccans surveyed indicate that they worship their gods and goddesses in a form of invocation that involves both an external reality and an inner, psychological component... to seek perfection through becoming a god or goddess would be, to them, a futile fantasy and a waste of time."

I tend to agree with her assessments.
My own path views life as a positive experience, and though I am divine, so too is everyone and everything else. I am not personally, seeking to become a god, nor do I think I am a deity, in exile or anything else.
I also don't believe in letting go so much as enjoying the journey for all its worth.

I listened to their podcast as well, and I've been meaning to email them, who knows, maybe your thread here will help me to explore the exact ins and outs of why I think what I do, and the different opinions of others.
So thank you - what a great thread idea. :D

[Shaman7]

I'm confused about the Heelas principles, specifically whether they really apply to all New Age beliefs? Maybe I'm missing something because the context was brief, but I can't believe that ALL New Age devotees think themselves to be exiled Divinity. Heelas's definition seems a bit too narrow, describing the 'extremists' of the New Age following, IMO.

New Age, as I understand it, is nothing more than a belief in a mass cultural awakening, expanding of collective consciousness, increased psychic awareness, or however you want to put it. The "Indigo Child" movement is a subsystem of the New Age belief system, but doesn't require children to be considered exiled Gods/Goddesses. New Age is a huge blanket term, much as Pagan, with no concise definition.

The primary difference is that Paganism often follows old tradition and New Age is perpetually new. There are many different beliefs in Paganism and many different beliefs in New Ageism. Sometimes there are conflicting beliefs between and within these groups. I suppose that someone could be both New Age and Pagan, if they were into collecting labels for themself. Where does Neo-Pagan fall in the mix though? Is it a blending between these terms or something altogether different?

It's nice to be able to define oneself, but as the old adage goes: "Actions speak louder than words." Sometimes labeling things only confuses matters further. As far as I'm concrened, we're all individuals. Call yourself whatever you like, and I'll call you by name.

[RubyRose]

Personally I think New Age is more spirituality, encompassing natural healing, philosophy and religion and pagan is more someone who follows a God other than those of the Christian oR Judaism, a pre Christian path.

[Zephyrstorm]

Perhaps Heelas' depiction of the New Age Movement is inaccurate. I haven't much of a reference to go off of. My experiences, brief as they may be, do seem to back up his ideas, but I am reluctant to say for certain that they apply universally.
But that's because I think that universal ideas are rare at best. I firmly believe in exceptions to the rule.



I'm confused about the Heelas principles, specifically whether they really apply to all New Age beliefs? Maybe I'm missing something because the context was brief, but I can't believe that ALL New Age devotees think themselves to be exiled Divinity. Heelas's definition seems a bit too narrow, describing the 'extremists' of the New Age following, IMO.

New Age, as I understand it, is nothing more than a belief in a mass cultural awakening, expanding of collective consciousness, increased psychic awareness, or however you want to put it. The "Indigo Child" movement is a subsystem of the New Age belief system, but doesn't require children to be considered exiled Gods/Goddesses. New Age is a huge blanket term, much as Pagan, with no concise definition.

The primary difference is that Paganism often follows old tradition and New Age is perpetually new. There are many different beliefs in Paganism and many different beliefs in New Ageism. Sometimes there are conflicting beliefs between and within these groups. I suppose that someone could be both New Age and Pagan, if they were into collecting labels for themself. Where does Neo-Pagan fall in the mix though? Is it a blending between these terms or something altogether different?

It's nice to be able to define oneself, but as the old adage goes: "Actions speak louder than words." Sometimes labeling things only confuses matters further. As far as I'm concrened, we're all individuals. Call yourself whatever you like, and I'll call you by name.

[cheddarsox]

well, here is my four second, gotta leave for work, input...New Age says "this CAN'T be what its all about" and has all sorts of ways of trying to get back to where we are "supposed" to be, some idea of perfection, while most pagan faiths seem to be more about embracing life as it is and working with it, not just trying to reach some utopia hidden behind some secret.

I find New Age to be based very much on a Christian sort of philosophy, that we are seperated from good, and have to do things to get back to it.

[Solya]

New Age is all about personal development, reaching some higher state of consciousness and changing the vibrations of whatever. I can go along with most of it, but also think that some things have started to lead a life of their own. (Christ-consciousness, Indigo/Crystal/Rainbow children, Ascended Masters and all that jazz... I see some forms of truth in the core ideas surrounding those things, but think that they have become maybe too much of a focus within the New Age community as a whole.)

Generally, Paganism doesn't revolve around always having to be better/more of something. That's the main difference between the two. They're both alternative lifestyles, but Paganism's focus lies in personal development and the honouring of everything within this world. Paganism also seems to be rooted within older things than the New Age movement.

[Toby Stimpson]

I think a category in a book store shouldn't be of concern. Categories in bookstores are not meant to define everything under them.... they're meant to lump together dierent subjects under a heading that is recognizable. But not all book stores will place Paganism under new age.

magic on the other hand could be classed as new age. But the problems lies in what is meant by new age? There are stereotypes yes, but what is meant by it.

[Phoenix Blue]

How are they different?
An item in a Pagan store might cost you $30. The same item in a New Age store will cost you $75.

[Lunacie]

Personally I think New Age is more spirituality, encompassing natural healing, philosophy and religion and pagan is more someone who follows a God other than those of the Christian oR Judaism, a pre Christian path.

Most of my Pagan experience is with Wicca, but I'd say it also encompasses spirituality, natural healing, philosophy and religion, usually while honoring one or more of the "old gods".

This article on beliefnet suggests that the main difference is a New Age belief that there are no gods per se, while Pagans generally believe there are many gods.
here: http://www.beliefnet.com/story/80/story_8055_1.html

[Sage Rainsong]

An item in a Pagan store might cost you $30. The same item in a New Age store will cost you $75.

Yeah, that reminds me of that joke. What is the difference between Pagan and New age? a decimal point.

[aranarose]

An item in a Pagan store might cost you $30. The same item in a New Age store will cost you $75.

I have a friend who works at a pagan store. Next door, there is a discount store that will often sell imported goods for very, very cheap. They once got in a shipment of saris and various Indian and Oriental goods. The pagan store went over, bought out the entire stock, and then put it for sale in their store at a 500% markup. Stuff sold like hot-cakes.

[RivaWitch]

Wow, What great responses. Posting mine would only be redundant!

I will say this. People often lump what is new to them as "New Age"

Also I think of New Age as only having a positive path or goal. Witchcraft does not even come close to that
As many know Witchcraft is not just use for your good but also your (or someone else's ;-)) ill.

Riva

[childofbast]

I think they're different but that they overlap.

When I think of new age, I think of otherwise undefined spiritual practices and beliefs. For example, I would consider someone who uses crystals for healing (who isn't Wiccan or any other type of Pagan) to be New Age. New Age beliefs seem less grounded in academia than Paganism, which in many ways rely on history, mythology, and the like *as well as* spirituality.

Just my thoughts.

[Meadhbh]

I think New Age has more to do with developing yourself and I agree with the fact that a lot of it tends to have a christain bent to it. It also seems more of a blend of pratices than a lot of pagan paths. No offense to any new age types but they also seem to me have more than their fair share of plastic shamans and the like.

[Windsmith]

A lot of good points have been made here already, but here's my buck-fifty's worth:


New Age focuses almost exclusively about self-improvement by honing in on the good and ignoring the bad. Many Pagan traditions have an emphasis on studying, understanding, and ultimately embracing and fully integrating your darker aspects that I've just never seen in the New Age movement.
As Cheddar pointed out, Paganism, or at least the traditions I've worked with, emphasize the now, dealing with What Is and what we can do to improve the things that are within our power to improve. New Age is much more "when we're all enlightened, oh how happy we'll all be."
An increasing number of Pagans (not all, alas, but an encouraging number) are very cautious about issues of cultural appropriation. They won't use other cultures' practices and terminology in their own practice unless they fully understand it and can integrate it in a respectful way. The New Age movement I find to be much more scattershot about it. Read one article in Woman's Day about Feng Shui? Go ahead and rearrange your house and tell all your friends it's in accordance with Feng Shui principles. Listened to one half-hour lecture by some Tibetan Buddhist lama? Sure, you can call yourself a Buddhist. Went to one powwow five years ago? By all means, plaster your walls with dream catchers and call yourself a practitioner of "Native American spirituality."


Hmmm...apparently I have some opinions on this matter!

[RivaWitch]

A lot of good points have been made here already, but here's my buck-fifty's worth:

New Age focuses almost exclusively about self-improvement by honing in on the good and ignoring the bad. Many Pagan traditions have an emphasis on studying, understanding, and ultimately embracing and fully integrating your darker aspects that I've just never seen in the New Age movement.
As Cheddar pointed out, Paganism, or at least the traditions I've worked with, emphasize the now, dealing with What Is and what we can do to improve the things that are within our power to improve. New Age is much more "when we're all enlightened, oh how happy we'll all be."
An increasing number of Pagans (not all, alas, but an encouraging number) are very cautious about issues of cultural appropriation. They won't use other cultures' practices and terminology in their own practice unless they fully understand it and can integrate it in a respectful way. The New Age movement I find to be much more scattershot about it. Read one article in Woman's Day about Feng Shui? Go ahead and rearrange your house and tell all your friends it's in accordance with Feng Shui principles. Listened to one half-hour lecture by some Tibetan Buddhist lama? Sure, you can call yourself a Buddhist. Went to one powwow five years ago? By all means, plaster your walls with dream catchers and call yourself a practitioner of "Native American spirituality."
Hmmm...apparently I have some opinions on this matter!


:fpraise::woot::abanana:

In other words, Well said!!!

Riva

[Brigid Rowan]

A lot of good points have been made here already, but here's my buck-fifty's worth:

New Age focuses almost exclusively about self-improvement by honing in on the good and ignoring the bad. Many Pagan traditions have an emphasis on studying, understanding, and ultimately embracing and fully integrating your darker aspects that I've just never seen in the New Age movement.
As Cheddar pointed out, Paganism, or at least the traditions I've worked with, emphasize the now, dealing with What Is and what we can do to improve the things that are within our power to improve. New Age is much more "when we're all enlightened, oh how happy we'll all be."
An increasing number of Pagans (not all, alas, but an encouraging number) are very cautious about issues of cultural appropriation. They won't use other cultures' practices and terminology in their own practice unless they fully understand it and can integrate it in a respectful way. The New Age movement I find to be much more scattershot about it. Read one article in Woman's Day about Feng Shui? Go ahead and rearrange your house and tell all your friends it's in accordance with Feng Shui principles. Listened to one half-hour lecture by some Tibetan Buddhist lama? Sure, you can call yourself a Buddhist. Went to one powwow five years ago? By all means, plaster your walls with dream catchers and call yourself a practitioner of "Native American spirituality."
Hmmm...apparently I have some opinions on this matter!

I love your writing, you should seriously write books. I adore your "voice". Its clear, witty and wonderful. And I totally agree that as a rule, Pagans aren't likely to shy away from the duality (light/dark) as the overall New Age stuff does.



Now I'll stop with the compliments, lest your spouse thinks Im trying to steal you away..lol..:cutie:

[serenarian]

I think New Age is very much an umbrella for a variety of things rather than an entity of its own. To me, New Age is anything to do with 'spiritual rather than religious' i.e. crystal healing as an independent thing (without being part of a religion) to give one example. Also, as someone else said, it does not embrace duality as such, being primarily about working with the 'higher self' and healing, and not including the dark side of life. A lot of people I know find it immensely 'fluffy' and irritating, but I have a respect for it as much as I respect anything else.

Also, about the book classification - most of the bookstores in the UK that I've been to put Pagan books under 'Mind, Body and Spirit' which I actually find quite fitting.

[PrincessKLS]

Personally (in modern times) I don't see much of a difference. Of course the broad range of paganism and the multiple paths do make it sometimes much more different than new age.

[PrincessKLS]

I don't blame people for not wanting to see the darkside of things. Personally, I think it's pushed into our face too much. Perhaps it's because of the stuff I grew up around and the religion of my parents but I find not just in Christianity but in Paganism sometimes the darkside has too much emphasis. I'm not denying there's darkness and evil quite the contrary but I don't think it's healthy to concentrate on it so much.

[Brigid Rowan]

I don't blame people for not wanting to see the darkside of things. Personally, I think it's pushed into our face too much. Perhaps it's because of the stuff I grew up around and the religion of my parents but I find not just in Christianity but in Paganism sometimes the darkside has too much emphasis. I'm not denying there's darkness and evil quite the contrary but I don't think it's healthy to concentrate on it so much.


Darkness isnt "evil", and sometimes the "dark" side is a positive. The dark aspects can be all about things like destruction, introversion and hibernation. Think about it: Your immune system is there to protect you. To do so, it destroys bacteria and viruses. But it isnt evil.

Dark and light are simply names we throw on to the concept of balancing forces in nature to help us, because we as humans love to label things.

[PrincessKLS]

Speaking of dark aspects being positive. I recently bought 2 tarot decks, the Thoth, which is sort of dark and a Vampire Tarot deck and oddly enough when I was doing a reading with the Vampire Tarot (despite it's dark theme and art), I felt a happy, positive calmness go through me. The Thoth Tarot is half and half for me, sometimes it's good, other times it's bad, and other times it's just confusing.

[Shaman7]

I think New Age has more to do with developing yourself and I agree with the fact that a lot of it tends to have a christain bent to it. It also seems more of a blend of pratices than a lot of pagan paths. No offense to any new age types but they also seem to me have more than their fair share of plastic shamans and the like.
That is a good point, and is also well elaborated in Windsmith's post (#3). "Shaman" has become somewhat of an overused umbrella term for a blending of practices and beliefs from both New Age and Pagan perspectives. Traditionally, this term was specific to a small group of people, and has been widely overgeneralized. I am guilty of this, though I have a working foundation of history and exercise respectfulness in my [admittedly eclectic] spiritual practice. Shamanism is another one of those labels that is tough to define from a modern day Western perspective though, and may further blur the dividing line that some might want to draw between Pagan and New Age beliefs.

[cheddarsox]

I find New Age much MORE focused on "dark" things, by it's compulsive need to catagorize everything as either "dark" or "light". It is very dualistic. The idea seems to be that there is some Utopia/perfection that we once had knowledge and understanding of, and somehow we lost that, and have been getting swallowed by dark ever since, and now it is time to turn that around, by listening to beings from the past, or other planets who can tell us how to find our way home.

Many pagan faiths are not about labeling everything inconvenient..like death, aging, sickness, sad feelings as "dark" or "wrong" or less than what we were meant to be. Most pagan faiths acknowledge these things as part of life, normal, natural and embrace and utilize the energies and lessons and function of these things. They are not "demonized".

I find New Age to be very depressing because it seems to assume that everything is wrong, and we need some special knowledge, practice, wisdom to make it right...oh and a $2700 weekend seminar with a channeler, sweat lodge experience optional (and another $150 bucks) to set us right.

The New Age idea is that humans lost our way, but somehow doesn't address the fact than animals also fight, get ill, die and don't always get what they want...hmmm...maybe it's because they can't afford the seminars.

[RivaWitch]

IMO Sometimes Hollywood = New Age. Many celebs like to jump on something mystical and "trendy"


Riva

[Windsmith]

I love your writing, you should seriously write books. I adore your "voice". Its clear, witty and wonderful.

Now I'll stop with the compliments, lest your spouse thinks Im trying to steal you away..lol..:cutie:Aw, shucks, Brigid Rowan! Ya make me blush.:giggle: As it happens, I do write books - every November for NaNoWriMo. One of these days I swear I'll get around to publishing one or more of 'em. I'm also a playwright and essayist (even been paid for that, once or twice).

Don't worry about my spouse. She's one of my biggest fans and thinks more people should compliment my writing, so that I, too, will think more highly of it. If she read this, she'd probably tell you thank you!


I find New Age much MORE focused on "dark" things, by it's compulsive need to catagorize everything as either "dark" or "light". It is very dualistic.Yeah, I can see that. Maybe my issue in the past has been not New Age itself, but the New Agers I know, who, every man jack of 'em, have done that categorization you talk about, and then put everything that falls under "dark" in a little box, stuffed in the back corner of their minds and labeled, "Not to be talked about."


The idea seems to be that there is some Utopia/perfection that we once had knowledge and understanding of, and somehow we lost that, and have been getting swallowed by dark ever since, and now it is time to turn that around, by listening to beings from the past, or other planets who can tell us how to find our way home.I've tended to interpret that as escapism, rather than dualism. In some New Age practitioners, I see an attitude of, "We don't need to do anything about the mess we're in, because the angels/Atlanteans/Alpha Centaurians/Atlantean crystals embedded in our brains will arrive/activate any minute now and tell us what to do. I see a strange dissonance in the "messages" of New Age leaders: you can actualize your highest potential and transcend the limitations of ordinary humanity, but you need a guru or a spirit guide or an alien to tell you how.

Understand, of course, that I'm talking about overarching messages that the "movement" as a whole seems to be putting out; I know that individual followers have probably reconciled those dichotomies quite well for themselves.

[Meadhbh]

New agers also seems to be more on the fluff side of things. In their quest for all things postive they have a sad tendancy to only take pratices that they like and over look some of the ones that they don't. Which is not a good thing as the saying goes 'that which does not kill us makes us stronger.'

[Aidron]

I use a simple division to explain the two.

New-Age: Post-modern hippies.

Pagans: Old school Hippies.

[cheddarsox]

I use a simple division to explain the two.

New-Age: Post-modern hippies.

Pagans: Old school Hippies.


Yeah, maybe that's it..pagans aren't afraid to get angry and dirty in the process of getting "enlightened"!

[Shaman7]

IMO Sometimes Hollywood = New Age. Many celebs like to jump on something mystical and "trendy"


Riva

I agree with this. Just look to Scientology for a wonderful example of "trendy" Hollywood spirituality. Is this also New Age? It seems to share a similar flaw fixing, perfection seeking philosophy. Yet other spiritual beliefs also seek this; Buddhism for one. Perhaps "New Age" is merely an umbrella that covers everything else; non-traditional beliefs to "fix" humanity.