Olympic torch protests

[Iris]

First Britain, then France, and now America, have made their voices heard by protesting against China's poor human rights record and the Chinese stance on Tibet as the torch for the Beijing olympics is carried around the world. I'm interested to know what MWers think of all this. Is it a bad thing that people are trying to thwart the carrying out of a decades-old tradition? Or is it a good thing that people are protesting and drawing attention to these issues, which many governments (*cough* Gordon Brown *coughs*) seem determined to whitewash over?

I for one am highly amused by the attempts to extinguish or steal the flame. As long as the protests remain non-violent, I feel proud that people from my country and all over the world are refusing to pretend that they are 100% happy with the situation in China. When the governments of many countries appear to be taking a 'softly softly' approach and refuse to mention the *shock, horror* human rights issues surrounding China (with many governments not-so-subtly courting Chinese investment and the so-called 'little red chequebook'.) the people of the Western world are refusing to be silenced.

[ravenhecate999]

Although I dont think the way China treats its people is right, I still think Its useless for one or two countries to boycott the Olympics. I mean, I wont get us anywhere, and we'll miss out on a worldwide tradition, and I guess China has just as much right as anyone...

[EvieLee]

I think a government deciding to boycott the olympics is disrespectful to the athletes who've devoted their lives to achieve this. But the torch relay is a different matter. It's purely ceremonial and I'm not really here nor there on it - I'm just sick of watching these protests on the news every night. Is this honestly going to keep going till August?

[Xander67]

I think that the protests should stop. If they want to express their dissaproval at the Chinese Human rights violations then they should protest against China instead of disrupting a centuries old tradition. Politics has no place in the olympics..

If anything, I say having the olympics in china dispite their horrific treatment of it's citizens would eventually bring shame on the chinese govt.

[Glowy]

I for one am glad Tibet is being brought up in this.
The US boycotted Russia in the 70's.
It has happened before and will happen again. Athletes country jump all the time to compete.

[Beatnik Bettie]

I'm generally a big fan of civil unrest, so I think this is a good idea.

Boycotting the Olympics themselves is probably not the go, but protests at the torch relays guarantees world media attention.

[Xander67]

Still, I strongly am dissapointed that people are directing their dissaproval towards the wrong venue, it is not fair to the athletes who trained so hard. I was against the boycot years ago too.

All this is doing is to show how stupid people are, "I do not like how people are abusing animals so I will protest against the SPCA" (using an example)

The olympics was set up with the goal of bringing the world together in an environment where the outside world and it's concerns were forgotten even if only for a brief time. It shows the world that world peace is possible given the right conditions.

I am sure if the people of this planet were to protest on a more global scale not just in dribs and drabs where the olympic torch was at , they would get more media attention rather than looking like idiots who all just want to hop on a bandwagon going far away from where they want to be.

[Glowy]

Still, I strongly am dissapointed that people are directing their dissaproval towards the wrong venue, it is not fair to the athletes who trained so hard. I was against the boycot years ago too.

All this is doing is to show how stupid people are, "I do not like how people are abusing animals so I will protest against the SPCA" (using an example)

The olympics was set up with the goal of bringing the world together in an environment where the outside world and it's concerns were forgotten even if only for a brief time. It shows the world that world peace is possible given the right conditions.

I am sure if the people of this planet were to protest on a more global scale not just in dribs and drabs where the olympic torch was at , they would get more media attention rather than looking like idiots who all just want to hop on a bandwagon going far away from where they want to be.


Hence with the country jumping. If you are the an athelete, and another country has "use" for your skills you can represent it. You still can compete though not for the country you reside in.

[Iris]

I have to disagree with you, Xander67. How can ANYTHING be 'outside' of politics? Politics with a small p affects all of our daily lives, and even those things that do not directly affect our daily lives can rouse strong feelings. I really don't agree with the attitude that some things are 'outside' or 'above' politics. That seems like a slippery slope to me. If we start saying "The olympic ceremony should be ABOVE politics", how long will it be before this argument is used elsewhere, to justify leaving politics out of OTHER events? and how long would it be before the concept of peaceful protest was stifled? If anything, the olympic relay is the perfect platform to protest. The eyes of the world are on the torch, and for all the wrong reasons! I feel very excited that the citizens of London, Paris and San Francisco have come out in force to show solidarity with the abused citizens of China. This is not an issue that affects the everyday lives of most of the inhabitants of these countries...and yet they feel so strongly about it that they have, as one, engaged in acts of protest directed at the one symbol everyone cannot ignore - the olympic torch. It fills me with hope to see that people are uniting for a common cause. I don't understand the opinion that the torch relay should somehow be 'sacred' from protest. It's precisely the nature of the relay that makes it such a good platform for demonstrating dissent. And I hope and pray that I never live in a country where anything is deemed too 'sacred' to be the object of protest, if such protest is justified and non-violent. I feel proud to be a citizen of the Western World at this time.

[Xander67]

The proof is in the pudding Ivy! :)
and if people start protesting events rather than the source of the issues they are protesting, it just shows how uninformed they are and makes themselves look like idiots.

The mere fact that citizens from countries at war with each other can come together in peace and harmony and show the world that they can get along is proof enough that something can be outside of politics. I think it sends a clear message to the govts of the respective nations and sends a clear message of hope to the world in general. This was what the Greeks had in mind when they started the olympics.

[Tanya]

Hope is a wonderful lovely idea.

and i agree... these poor athletes deserve better...

but what is hope without action?

Chinese are using the Olympics as a political tool to justify themselves as modern players on a world stage, and for us to stand by with dewy eyes and hope for better is not going to get us far. The Chinese are a VERY proud people... and they understand SHAME.... and they SHOULD be ashamed.

The Chinese have had the nerve to demand of other countries that they silence all descent against them as the torch passes through. How DARE they... Maybe that is how they run things in their country but not in MINE.

....Damn it! who do they think they are that they can tell poeple in other countries what to think or say? Clearly they have been running things in their own country too long and clearly thinking or saying anything out of line gets you a fast bullet behind the ear in China...... and now they would like to export that?!!! We are to have Chinese secuity forces (troops!) in our contry to protect their honor from OUR opinons? GTFO! I'm am soooo PROUD of our PM that he told them to **** off on that one.

the fact that China is being rejected as a worthy venue holder for an event shows our respect for the event and the great efforts of the athletes... its shouldn't be the political pawn of a brutal regieme.

The Chinese are bringing the Olympics into disrepute and I want to lodge my complaint. The Olympics should be a symbol of hope and striving... and this.... this is not it... so i'm gonna turn up if it gets here and say so.

Finally, I agree attacking physically the torch is bad form.... I don't advocate any sort of physical violence in protesting... verbal protest? All for it.

[Liberty]

I'm all for the cause but at the same time trying to steal the torch is pushing it, this is a pretty old tradition, don't take it out on the Olympics (and the athletes who no doubt worked incredibly hard to get where they are) take it out on China. Instead of having it a Beijing, why not move it else where? That'll at least get the message across more loud and clear to China that the rest of the world doesn't approve of what they're doing.

[Beatnik Bettie]

I'm all for the cause but at the same time trying to steal the torch is pushing it, this is a pretty old tradition, don't take it out on the Olympics (and the athletes who no doubt worked incredibly hard to get where they are) take it out on China. Instead of having it a Beijing, why not move it else where? That'll at least get the message across more loud and clear to China that the rest of the world doesn't approve of what they're doing.

The Olympic torch relay tradition isn't really that old - it first began at the Berlin Olympics in 1936, in an attempt by Hitler to add glamour and mystery to the games, and to intimidate the watching world.

[Liberty]

I'd say almost 100 years is a pretty long time. Doesn't matter how it started, the fact is that passing of the torch has become part of a tradition that's tied to the Olympics.

The Olympic torch relay tradition isn't really that old - it first began at the Berlin Olympics in 1936, in an attempt by Hitler to add glamour and mystery to the games, and to intimidate the watching world.

[Treegoddess]

who do they think they are that they can tell poeple in other countries what to think or say?

Right, b/c none of the other countries do that! :smileroll

I'm on the fence and here is why...

I believe in protest, I believe in the cause...but I also know that if other countries had protested the US or other countries every time we were oppressing someone, there would never have been an olympics! I have a hard time with our attitude about how we are all high and mighty (have you read our history...even of late??) and decide what everyone else in the world should do since we believe we are right.

The reason I am torn is b/c I believe whole heartedly that China should free Tibet from it's grips and don't think that there is anything wrong with non-violent protest. I'm just tired of the US thinking that they own the *one truth* to the world and forcing it down other countries throats when it seems to me that we are just hypocrites.

[TygerTyger]

The Olympic Games has always been political. Originally begun as a religious festival it did not take long for powerful individuals and city states to realise that success in the games could promote their own political aspirations.

The Emperor Nero fancied winning at the games would improve his popularity and his court had it arranged for him to do so.

Hitler saw the games in the same light and used the Olympics to shamelessly promote his own regime.

Russia and America used the games to score cold war points off each other.

The International Olympic Committee (IOC) is definitely political, they are courted and feted by heads of state the world over, influenced by the receipt of expensive gifts and generally treated as very VIPS! The IOC do not care that much about the athletes, nor about the original ethos of the games, that isn’t where their attention is, it’s in playing power politics with world leaders.

As to athletes devoting their whole lives to the games, well, they are as human as the people who are being persecuted by China and other would be hosts; denying that humanity robs the games of all value whatsoever. Curiously, we expect people to make an effort to support campaigns against intolerable regimes, actors, musicians, journalists, average working people – but not athletes!

Why is that? What separates them from the rest of us? Why are they permitted to abrogate their responsibility to other human beings in order to achieve their moment of personal glory?

There was a movement to have the Olympics permanently sited in Greece and one of the reasons put forward was this very politicization of the games, which was also probably the IOC’s very reason for rejecting it!

There is nothing so sacred about the Olympics that people should not, given scant opportunity by the IOC, voice their dissatisfaction about both their choice of host and the treatment of other human beings within the host nation.

[LostSheep]

I think that the protests should stop. If they want to express their dissaproval at the Chinese Human rights violations then they should protest against China instead of disrupting a centuries old tradition. Politics has no place in the olympics..
Interestingly, much the same thing was said on this topic in 1936... The Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1936_Summer_Olympics)However, others argued that the Olympic Games should not be a reflection of political views but strictly a contest of the greatest athletes.

[Beatnik Bettie]

72 years does not equal a "centuries old tradition"....

[Xander67]

well I am thankful that I live in a place where I can express my views towards china without fearing imprisonment and torture. :)

Let china make all the demands they want, what are they going to do invade every country that protests? I think not..

OK, I admit it is kinda cool watching everyone protest china along the torch's path to Be Jing now that China is demanding that we all stop protesting their domestic policy. China is looking pretty dumb about now lol

[Nitefalle]

If they want to protest China, then they should stop buying products made there and protest outside corporate headquarters of places like Walmart that house their sweatshops and factories over there.

[sarabethv]

I think protesting - even along the route is fine. However, jumping at the relay runners, trying to extinguish the torch (which seems rather jr. high) or attempting violence at the actual Olympics is ridiculous. Are we so set in our opinions that we are unable to set these things aside in order to come together for an athletic contest that people have trained for years for? Just because it has not been political free since its inception, doesn't mean that it shouldn't be now. How does yelling (or even jumping ) at an individual carrying a torch who has absolutely NOTHING to do with the political structure in China fix anything?

In the CNN video of today's relay, a couple of people despite the police presence tried running at the relay runners. When the police held out their hands to stop the person, he/she fought and pulled away and again attempted to run toward the relay runners. This is absolutely unacceptable. Perhaps the person's intentions were not violent, but I certainly saw it that way. He/She could have got the point across by having a sign or even yelling their opinion.

Protest is a wonderful thing - but should be focused on the individual's or area that needs change. The relay runners and athletes have absolutely nothing to do with the political structure of any of the countries.

Wouldn't it be nice if we really could set aside politics and just be humans coming together for a celebration of athleticism without drugs or hatred?

[Iris]

Wouldn't it be nice if we really could set aside politics and just be humans coming together for a celebration of athleticism without drugs or hatred?

I don't think it would be 'nice' at all. I don't understand how people can take that view. I don't think it would be 'nice' for people to just pretend nothing negative is happening in China.

And people ARE 'coming together'...and they're coming together for a much more important cause than watching some single-minded skinny people run round a track.

[sarabethv]

I don't think it would be 'nice' at all. I don't understand how people can take that view. I don't think it would be 'nice' for people to just pretend nothing negative is happening in China.

And people ARE 'coming together'...and they're coming together for a much more important cause than watching some single-minded skinny people run round a track.

Yeah, they are coming together to raise hell at some poor individual who has absolutely nothing to do with the politics in China, and putting a person who is just trying to do something they can be proud of in fear of their lives and of being attacked by unreasonable mobs. Oh yeah, I can see how that is sooooo much better.