View from a Non-Believer

[Amethyst Rose]

My husband is an athiest and a skeptic. We really have great debates about things, such as past lives and near death experiences (which he doesn't believe in), and divination, which he (again) doesn't believe in.
I've read tarot cards for him once, and they told him to watch out for his job....2 months later he was unemployed -- the company went bankrupt. He says it's just coincedence.
So, what do you think of that opinion?
He feels that reading tarot cards is completely coincedental...that they just tell you things that could apply to anyone (he believes the same about horroscopes)...or that it's your subconscious giving you an answer...or reading body language, etc., etc. (Incidently, he believes that intuition and "psycic experiences" are only the subconscious talking to you).
What do you think? Is tarot mystical? Could it only be your subconscious talking? Why? How do you know? (As a tarot reader for 6 years, I know how I feel, I want to hear some other answers).

[Emaleth]

Well, I don't know, but from what I've read interpreting Tarot cards has much to do with the subconscious sphere of mind. The cards show powrful symbols and archetypes that are meaningful to us.

For me the Tarot cards themselves are just a tool we can use. The power is not only in them, but mainly in the reader. That's why a person who had never had contact with the cards wouldn't be able to read them. If you study and practice, the cards will work for you, but they don't hold any magickal power in themselves.

My two cents (I'm a Tarot reader for 6 months, so maybe not very valid:))

Blessed Be

[cherrywind]

I used to think much the same way, I was totally skeptical of tarot and basically any form of divination. Until I really started studying their practices and understanding them better, I kept this belief. Then, I met a tarot reader, and he did a few readings for me over the course of several months. Everything he said "came true" (although I'd rather use "had bearing" because it wasn't all future reading), and even I didn't think it could be all coincedence. Now I've been reading and studying tarot for about 4 years now.

[Armitage]

I've heard they started as a game, and that's why they can't be real...
But the thought of someone divining the future with cards is a strong archetype, and there's got to be some power behind that much belief, even if it comes from a myth. Same reason why I believe in angels, fae, demons, gods and many other 'myths'.:D

[Flaire-FireStar]

I've had a couple of readings done, and they've been right on.. So they *all* could be coincidences (even though I had 2 done around the same time with the same problem - and they were similar).

*shrugs* I think if you get enough coincidences happening, that you could admit power behind the cards (or the reader) ;)

[buttercup]

Originally posted by Amethyst Rose
(Incidently, he believes that intuition and "psycic experiences" are only the subconscious talking to you).
[/B]

I guess I'd have to say he is right if it is as you worded it. What does he believe the subconscious is? To me, a psycic experience is the realization that my subconscious has intuitively picked up on something. So, maybe he is right.

As for divination, it's something we all have the ability to develop at least to some degree. It is within us even if we don't tap into it. If no one had handed Michael Jordan a basketball, he would have never known he could play. By using tarot or runes some people are able to tap into an ability, a subconscious talent, the same way he uses a basketball to score points. Maybe that's not the best example, but it works for me:)

[Journeyman]

I view the cards as tools that serve to focus our conscious and subconscious minds so as to allow our own "intuition," or "precognition," or what have you, out.
So, I don't consider it useful to debate with a skeptic whether the cards have any power or not. Instead I affirm my own belief that there is more to the human mind than science can understand, and that external tools and training can tap hidden wellsprings in the mind.
This being the case (IMOSHO), all I would consider when evaluating a possible oracle is whether the symbol set is comprehensive enough and complex enough (with the symbols alone or in relation to other symbols from the same set) to allow the reader to use the oracle under a wide variety of circumstances.

I think the Tarot handily meets those criteria.

[Witchy Cowgirl]

Originally posted by buttercup

As for divination, it's something we all have the ability to develop at least to some degree. It is within us even if we don't tap into it. If no one had handed Michael Jordan a basketball, he would have never known he could play. By using tarot or runes some people are able to tap into an ability, a subconscious talent, the same way he uses a basketball to score points. Maybe that's not the best example, but it works for me:)

Never thought about it like that. My mother-in-law gave me a deck. She was at one time gonna try to read, but said she didn't have a real feeling for it. That deck is the only deck I've ever seen and it is at the bottom of my chest.

[buttercup]

Originally posted by Journeyman
I view the cards as tools that serve to focus our conscious and subconscious minds so as to allow our own "intuition," or "precognition," or what have you, out.


Yeah. That's pretty much what I was working around to....just taking a lot more words to do it :)

[Myst]

Then there are those who think by doing a tarot reading and "foreseeing" something you plant an idea in the querent's mind, thereby setting things in motion for that foreseen event to occur.

It's like the person who is told their death is foreseen and hides in their house all day to prevent it and then some odd disaster occurs there that kills them, that only could've occured had they been in their house at the time.

[Silver_Alhena]

My flatmate (who is known for being sarcastic and cynical) was...not dismissive exactly....but a firm non-believer in tarot.
I didn't try and change his mind, but after two very accurate readings, of aspects of his life I had no prior knowledge of, he never mentioned it again. :)

That has happened a couple of times, and I prefer reading 'blind' for people, i.e. with no knowledge of the situation apart from the general area the query falls in.

[aria]

I've been reading the cards for a few years now... I personally think that the symbols on the cards don't tell much in themselves; it depends on the skill of the reader to determine how their meanings might relate to the querent and how how they could point out little things that may or maynot occur in the future... of course, my cards are fickle, and my skill is not that great, so most of the time I have difficulty digging anything out of them that I don't already know, but that's ok, someday I'll get better...

[Silver Venus]

Great discussion :) I believe they are our subconsious and also our guides, working together as one through the cards.
Maybe its our consious that gets in the way of interpretating them sometimes and messes up the reading ;)

[Amethyst Rose]

Originally posted by Silver Venus
Maybe its our consious that gets in the way of interpretating them sometimes and messes up the reading ;)

This is actually one of the reasons why I can't read my own cards... I'm too aware of myself, and can't be objective while reading....

I find it interesting that it seems like no one really feels that there's anything "mystical" about the cards, or the ability to read them. I believe that the cards allow me to tap into my intuition, or pre-cognition, if you will.... That is why I disagree with the whole subconsious theory. The subconsious remembers everything...absolutely every experience you've ever had, and it can make inferences from those experiences, but it does not know the future.

As it is, tarot cards don't necessarily work for everyone. My husband couldn't pick up a deck, learn all the meanings from a book and do an accurate reading -- because he doesn't believe. At least, that's my take on it. ;)

[mol]

Originally posted by Amethyst Rose
He says it's just coincedence.
So, what do you think of that opinion?

Could be.

I'd just say prove that its coincidence. The enivitable reply would be: "Prove its not coincidence!"

And to that: "Well, I already did."