Witchcraft without the influence of Christianity and other monotheistic religions?

[PrincessKLS]

Okay so think about this; they say in modern times witchcraft has become fluffier and in my opiniion the influence and evolution of Judaism, Christianity, and even Islam has a lot to do with it. So if we nevre had these three religions and maybe some other major religions, how do you think witchcraft would be like today?

[MonSno_LeeDra]

I've been running this one around in my head and honestly I do not think you could begin to speculate on what would have been.

What would be the defination of what is witchcraft and / or a witch? In many area's the very notion of what is a witch and witchcraft is driven by the early church influences. Even those area's only slightly touched use that Christian defination to a large extent.

Would a Nordic Heathen be termed as a Witch? Probally not. The very notion of Odinist, Asatru, Germanic practioners being called witches seems far fetched.

Would a Pan American practioner of HooDoo, VoDoo, Santeria or any other combination be called Witches? Probally not, we don't even call them witches today.

Even the notion of what is a witch varies from region to region, country to country and township to township. An Appalachian witch is a far cry from a Penn Dutch Witch and both are a far cry from the notion of a Bayou Witch.

This concept also doesn't touch upon the concept of Witchcraft as a magical crafting versus witchcraft as a religious calling versus witchcrafting as a healer. Add in all the Water Witches, Wise Women, Potion Brewers, etc and you have an even wider range of skill sets that have been atributed to witches accross the ages.

I think the only thing you could say is they would not be the Spiritual and / or religious grouping called priest or priestess. And even that may be an incorrect statement based upon skill sets.

[Caitlin.ann]

Fluffy compared to what? What do we have to go on? Furthermore, as the above poster shows, "witch" and "witchcraft" means different things to different people of different regions. Even today not everyone agrees on what a witch is, so to try to judge how witchcraft has even changed or become "fluffier" is virtually impossible. And to blame it on the abrahamic religions is even more impossible.

[PrincessKLS]

Yeah that is a good point that the term witch wasn't really used until years after Christianity.

[bellamandu]

well, for one, i probably wouldnt have been asked if i was "part of a satanic cult" while i was looking for someone locally to perform my handfasting ceremony. then again, i do live in bible belt usa!

[Xander67]

Fluffy compared to what? What do we have to go on? Furthermore, as the above poster shows, "witch" and "witchcraft" means different things to different people of different regions. Even today not everyone agrees on what a witch is, so to try to judge how witchcraft has even changed or become "fluffier" is virtually impossible. And to blame it on the abrahamic religions is even more impossible.

I agree. I was watching "secrets of the code" narrated by susan surandon(sp)

They had some interesting points concerning "the olde ways". The majority of the populous at large have no idea just how much the olde religion has contributed to society today.

And the word Witch has be abused, misused, misdefined and in my opinion is just a title which could mean different things to different people.

further more, the term "fluffier" also has different meanings depending on who you ask so it is really difficult to pin it on any one religious society.

WItchcraft and Paganism are not entirely synonomous. yet not exactly apart from one another either.. I guess it all boils down to personal opinions.

[Xander67]

well, for one, i probably wouldnt have been asked if i was "part of a satanic cult" while i was looking for someone locally to perform my handfasting ceremony. then again, i do live in bible belt usa!

try and show them that the Pentacle was origonally a symbol of the sacred feminine, which the christian church adopted as a symbol of protection. Add to that the adaptation of it by Wicca also symbolising protection and then add to that the association of it by Satanism and then you are in for a heated discussion lol

[MonSno_LeeDra]

Bellamandu,

Perhaps you would have been seen as something better or worse depending upon the social and cultural stigma of the area. Yet marriage rites where drawn from local lore and tradition so anything outside that norm could also be construde as wrong or bad. Ironically, with things being seen as bad not from a name but change of a practice.

But you also make reference to a different facet of Withcraft, that being that many Wiccans are Witches but no all Witches are Wiccan. Handfasting in its current observance is a Wiccan conccept to a great degree, however many culture's had handfasting type rites that had nothing to do with religious traditions..

[bellamandu]

Which is why ive learned, instead of making a reference to wicca when someone asks what handfasting is, i just make a reference to Braveheart.

Then everyone says... Ohhhhhh! I know what you are talking about now! :weirdsmil

[MonSno_LeeDra]

Sacredsin wrote:



so to try to judge how witchcraft has even changed or become "fluffier" is virtually impossible


I wonder if "Fluffier" is not really a valid comparrison to a degree. However, I do think the comparrison would be based upon one regions practice against another region that had a similar point of origin.

For instance take rural Virginia on the western ridges, much of the area was settled by Scotish and Irish immigrants. They brough thier traditons and beliefs with them when they settled the area. Now compare and contrast the traditions of Scotland and Ireland of today against the Western ridges of Virginia and both sides could claim the other has grown fluffy in practice as they look upon one another.

The defining factor being the changes each culture and society have experienced based upon the geographical and political influences of the area.

Yet as I said I think it would only be valid when compared to two areas derived from the same point of origin. Even then a time line would have to be established to show where a comparriosn would no longer be valid based upon passage of time.

[Ben Gruagach]

Lots to think about so far in this thread... great posts, everyone!

Regardless how you define witch and witchcraft, if you are looking for ways to practice today that are not influenced by Christianity, Judaism, or Islam then you will have a real challenge ahead of you. There is a lot of modern occult and magickal practice which is at least influenced by those big three religions, if not developed through them.

Probably the best advice would be to pick a particular culture that you find appealing, and then do some heavy-duty research into the religious and magickal practices of that culture outside or before they were affected by Christianity, Judaism, or Islam. Are you most interested in Celtic cultures, Egyptian, Roman, Greek, Mesopotamian, or one of the many cultures native to the Americas? What about Asian cultures or cultures of the southern hemisphere? There is a whole world to choose from.

Even if you are planning to be more of a practical witch rather than a historically-focussed reconstructionist, you will probably find some of the best resources among reconstructionist work for the culture you want to explore. For instance, check out the various Paths sections here at MysticWicks to see what books are recommended by the various reconstructionist practitioners here. They can point you in the right direction for your research.

And while it's clear you don't want your witchcraft practice to have overt Christian, Jewish or Muslim influences you'll likely find that some source material is available only through those three religions. Examine those source materials and see if you can strip away the Christian, Jewish, or Muslim veneer to expose any Pagan core lurking there. Or perhaps you will want to adapt a particular practice to your own Pagan version and go with that. Don't turn away good stuff just because it happens to be presented in a Christian, Jewish, or Muslim wrapper!

[Cake-eating_Moth]

Yeah, because we all know the Witches' rede wasn't around back then :weirdsmil

I mean - these days you have to have a rede, just to say you have one, so the mainstream will leave you alone - aaah, but we all know that no one really follows it.

Just kidding - I know some people do, but I don't practice spellcraft often, so when I do, it has more to do with me than with anybody else. Even if I did practice more often, it wouldn't be in the confines of some kind of rule. Spirituality is spirituality marked with what should be a higher change in consciousness - not bound by earthly means.

[teishabee]

whats the witches rede?

I know of the wiccan rede, is this the same?

[Sequoia]

A huge chunk of modern paganism is based on Christian mysticism. Eliminate Christianity, and you eliminate much of modern paganism.

Now, if you're speaking of ancient paganism, which was MUCH different (and rather the established religion of the time), it's difficult to say how things would be today. Without the Big Three (Christianity, Judaism, Islam), you wouldn't have had the renaissance or the industrial revolution. In fact, humanity's entire history would be vastly different. I find it difficult to believe that we'd have the same technologies today if the past had been different. The entire world would be vastly different.

I am content with the world's religions and technology as they are today, and where they are going tomorrow.

I wouldn't want to meddle with changing the past. Haven't any of you ever watched Star Trek or anything? Infinite realities! So many differences based on so many choices.

But that's a question for another thread - do you believe in infinite realities (I think it has something to do with quantum string theory?), or do you believe that everything is destined to happen, and it's just this one reality that exists...!

[RoseKitten]

whats the witches rede?

I know of the wiccan rede, is this the same?

It's posted here: http://www.witchaven.com/Craft_info/witches_rede.htm

[Rudas Starblaze]

Okay so think about this; they say in modern times witchcraft has become fluffier and in my opiniion the influence and evolution of Judaism, Christianity, and even Islam has a lot to do with it. So if we nevre had these three religions and maybe some other major religions, how do you think witchcraft would be like today?

i highly doubt wicca would have ever existed if it werent for the above religions. wicca practices alot of ritual that is basically identical to catholic, jewish, and islamic trads.

as for effecting the non-wiccan witchcraft/witches, more than likely it wouldnt matter if the above mentioned religions never existed in regards to our practices.

[Ben Gruagach]

It's posted here: http://www.witchaven.com/Craft_info/witches_rede.htm

That's just the same thing published under a different title. The original was published as "The Rede of the Wiccae" and originated with Lady Gwen Thompson.

Some people also call it the long form of the Wiccan Rede. The Wiccan Rede itself is just the last bit of the longer poem: "An' it harm none, do what you will."

It's definitely a Wiccan thing regardless what title people are giving it. I'm not sure that any witches prior to Gerald Gardner had heard of it although I also do not doubt that various witchcraft practitioners did have their own ethical codes.

[teishabee]

can I just ask a random question, I know a witch can obviously not be a wiccan but how can a wiccan not be a witch.

Please anyone dont take offense, its a genuine query.

Or would a witch just be classed as someone who preforms spells.

[Ben Gruagach]

can I just ask a random question, I know a witch can obviously not be a wiccan but how can a wiccan not be a witch.

Please anyone dont take offense, its a genuine query.

Or would a witch just be classed as someone who preforms spells.

I know there are some Wiccans who say they are not witches, but personally I don't think that makes any sense. Gerald Gardner, who many credit with starting the modern religion of Wicca, was very clear in his emphasis on Wicca as a religious type of witchcraft. His most famous books were "Witchcraft Today" and "The Meaning of Witchcraft" for a reason!

To me, a Wiccan who is not a Witch is like a Christian who doesn't believe in Christ. Why bother if you don't believe?

[teishabee]

I suppose like any religion people can go through the motions or be forced into it.

But thanks for clarifying. Now maybe we should wait to get a response from a wiccan who isnt a witch then that would put it straight.:weirdsmil

[C. Iulia Regilia]

A huge chunk of modern paganism is based on Christian mysticism. Eliminate Christianity, and you eliminate much of modern paganism.

Now, if you're speaking of ancient paganism, which was MUCH different (and rather the established religion of the time), it's difficult to say how things would be today. Without the Big Three (Christianity, Judaism, Islam), you wouldn't have had the renaissance or the industrial revolution. In fact, humanity's entire history would be vastly different. I find it difficult to believe that we'd have the same technologies today if the past had been different. The entire world would be vastly different.

I am content with the world's religions and technology as they are today, and where they are going tomorrow.

I wouldn't want to meddle with changing the past. Haven't any of you ever watched Star Trek or anything? Infinite realities! So many differences based on so many choices.

But that's a question for another thread - do you believe in infinite realities (I think it has something to do with quantum string theory?), or do you believe that everything is destined to happen, and it's just this one reality that exists...!

I'd have to disagree. The greeks had knowledge of steam power and were pretty good engineers at the time The only difference was that they seemed to think steam power was a kid's toy. It was more due to the existance of slavery in the ancient world than religion -- they didn't need to make life easier for their slaves so they didn't.

[BryonMorrigan]

I'd have to disagree. The greeks had knowledge of steam power and were pretty good engineers at the time The only difference was that they seemed to think steam power was a kid's toy. It was more due to the existance of slavery in the ancient world than religion -- they didn't need to make life easier for their slaves so they didn't.

Yeah, I tend to go with the vast majority of intellectuals in the Western World in saying that, if anything, Christianity was a negative force on the development of science and technology, rather than the opposite.

I mean, jeez...much of the various "renaissances" were built around the concept of re-learning the technology and science that had been discarded or forgotten during the "Dark Ages."

[kwaw]

It's posted here: http://www.witchaven.com/Craft_info/witches_rede.htm

A history here:

http://www.waningmoon.com/ethics/rede3.shtml

In relation to its likeness to Crowley's 'Do what thou wilt': oddly Gardners OTO charter says in eight words "Do what thou wilt shall be the law". This is wrong, it is an eleven word phrase 'Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law." Crowley was very strict about the wording, he would pull people up on it if they got it wrong in their letters for example, it is very strange and unlike him to hav let it go in an actual charter.

Here is a picture of the Charter:

http://www.geraldgardner.com/archive/charter/images/full-medium.jpg

[Tom Terrific]

Okay so think about this; they say in modern times witchcraft has become fluffier and in my opiniion the influence and evolution of Judaism, Christianity, and even Islam has a lot to do with it. So if we nevre had these three religions and maybe some other major religions, how do you think witchcraft would be like today?
Fluffy compared to what? What do we have to go on? Furthermore, as the above poster shows, "witch" and "witchcraft" means different things to different people of different regions. Even today not everyone agrees on what a witch is, so to try to judge how witchcraft has even changed or become "fluffier" is virtually impossible. And to blame it on the abrahamic religions is even more impossible.I think there is a point to this question.

It has become unfashionable to think that things have an existence and meaning independent of what we want them to mean. Redefining terms and redesigning concepts to suit the wishes of today is regarded as a basic human right. This proposition is a twisted truth. We are free to explore and deepen our grasp of what is, and to this end we must be able to redefine and realign our concepts accordingly. But freedom is not license. This freedom presupposes that we are trying to discover, to learn and to grow, and not simply chasing a fad, indulging our passions or running from fear.

Witchcraft means something. It is a response to the human condition; and, because the human condition is fixed, whatever draws its meaning therefrom is also fixed. That doesn’t mean that Witchcraft, for example, manifests in only one form; but it does mean that, in whatever form it appears, Witchcraft has a basic meaning, and that that meaning does not change. To the extent that forms assigned to Witchcraft express that meaning, they are true; and, to the extent such forms dampen that expression, they are false.

One form or expression is not just as good as another. Which forms and expressions are advantageous and disadvantageous may change from culture to culture and from person to person, but their suitability is not arbitrary. It is based in reality. And there are some forms that are constant across individuals, cultures and times, so fundamental are they to our humanity. One of these is sex.

The principal cause for sex having been virtually expurgated from contemporary Witchcraft is the culture which has formed our thinking. This Judeo-Christian culture has shaped how we think about sex, has taught us to fear it, has cut us off from its magical/spiritual nature. I was fascinated to hear a story about the experience of a Christian missionary upon first landing in some Polynesian location, how when he accepted their offer to witness their sacred rites two teenagers came out and began having sex. What I found fascinating about this was that this was occurring in Polynesia, halfway around the world from where it had occurred in other cultures, and likely with no communication between them.

I have long believed that sex is basic to Witchcraft; and this conviction has only grown stronger as the years have gone by. Call it my personal, private gnosis if you will; that doesn’t make it wrong. And I think one of the principal reasons we don’t employ it today as it has been employed in the past is the false notions we have been taught about it.

Another reason is that -- I think -- we don’t truly understand the meaning of sex in the context of Witchcraft. We think of it as allegory, rather than as actual participation in the life of the Goddess. If we understood this participation, we would no longer consider an athame and a chalice “just as good” as the real thing.

I understood the reference to "fluffiness" to refer to superficiality. Sex is the greatest source of power we possess; and one of the reasons that Witchcraft is “fluffier” or more superficial than in older times is that it has cut itself off from its principal ritual power source. In its place we have shadows and pop psychology. And why? Because it’s easier to compromise Witchcraft than it is to face our own fears.

That’s how religion gets watered down and eventually washed away.

[David19]

Yeah, I tend to go with the vast majority of intellectuals in the Western World in saying that, if anything, Christianity was a negative force on the development of science and technology, rather than the opposite.

I mean, jeez...much of the various "renaissances" were built around the concept of re-learning the technology and science that had been discarded or forgotten during the "Dark Ages."

I think I'm going disagree, both Christianity and ancient religions made their contributions to science, but, neither can be said to have made more of a contribution. I'd also add Atheists have contributed a lot to science.

Personally, I'm glad to be living in this century, 2010, than in any ancient culture - I'd rather not have scientific inventions be dedicated to some God or another, which many ancient cultures did ("so and so gave the knowledge to us", etc). LGBT people have far greater rights than in the ancient world (ancient cultures were quite heteronormative).

That said, I'm going OT.

[David19]

A huge chunk of modern paganism is based on Christian mysticism. Eliminate Christianity, and you eliminate much of modern paganism.

Now, if you're speaking of ancient paganism, which was MUCH different (and rather the established religion of the time), it's difficult to say how things would be today. Without the Big Three (Christianity, Judaism, Islam), you wouldn't have had the renaissance or the industrial revolution. In fact, humanity's entire history would be vastly different. I find it difficult to believe that we'd have the same technologies today if the past had been different. The entire world would be vastly different.

I am content with the world's religions and technology as they are today, and where they are going tomorrow.

I wouldn't want to meddle with changing the past. Haven't any of you ever watched Star Trek or anything? Infinite realities! So many differences based on so many choices.

But that's a question for another thread - do you believe in infinite realities (I think it has something to do with quantum string theory?), or do you believe that everything is destined to happen, and it's just this one reality that exists...!

QFT and really great post, and I do believe in infinite realities (maybe it's just 'cause I've been watching a lot of Stargate SG-1 recently, but, it's a really interesting and cool concpt), if ancient religions had survived without Christianity interfering, the world may be very different - we may still have an oppressive Empire (Roman, although, we've had plenty of those since - British, certain U.S. governments wanting to dominate the world with their ideologies, Communism, etc), the honour/shame culture that was part of Roman society and most other ancient societies may still be around in the West (which would be a bad thing - in same-sex sex, a man was looked down upon if he were the passive/bottom partner, just like in certain Arab and Islamic countries today), etc.

That said, it's really quite cool to think about, in one reality, the Roman, Hellenic, Egyptian, etc religions may still be practiced openly and large scale, in another those religions and Christianity and other religions are practiced side-by-side with no hard feelings on either side, and each one is seen as being valid and true for the members (my kind of reality!), in another, the Nazi's won WW2, and dominated the world (in which result, there'd be no me typing this in that reality, I know you'd all be disappointed ;)!).

Ok, again, I'm getting OT, so, I'll stop now.

[BryonMorrigan]

I think I'm going disagree, both Christianity and ancient religions made their contributions to science, but, neither can be said to have made more of a contribution. I'd also add Atheists have contributed a lot to science.

It's not about other religions' "contributions"... Rather, it's about:

1.) The loss of a significant amount of technology and written learning in Western Europe following the fall of Rome, and...

2.) The Catholic Church's stance of opposing scientific research in many areas, most exemplified anecdotally by examining the trial of Gallileo and Giordano Bruno being burned at the stake.

This all makes me really wish that a certain movie would finally get American distribution:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RbuEhwselE0

[David19]

It's not about other religions' "contributions"... Rather, it's about:

1.) The loss of a significant amount of technology and written learning in Western Europe following the fall of Rome, and...

I'm not sure I'd qualify what Rome had as a significant amount of technology, maybe advanced for their time, but, the biggest advancements came when religion was taken out of science (if Rome had continued on, we may still be sacrificing innocent animals to divine the will of Gods, imagine your President basing his important decisions on what he could find in spilled guts, and, apparantly, to the Romans that was a science).


2.) The Catholic Church's stance of opposing scientific research in many areas, most exemplified anecdotally by examining the trial of Gallileo and Giordano Bruno being burned at the stake.

True, but, as far as I know, Bruno was Christian, or, maybe, somewhat of a Gnostic Christian, I'm not sure about Gallileo (OT, I know, but, I really love what I've read about Bruno, his ideas of an infinite universe, or an infinite number of worlds parallels modern science (the multiversal theory) in really interesting ways).

Also, despite the blocking of scientific knowledge by Churches, many great scientists have been Christian, so, I don't think it's right to say Christians have contributed "less" than ancient peoples (I don't really like calling the ancient peoples and religions Pagan, as that's a Christian, and Islamic, term that was placed on them, they weren't "Pagan").


This all makes me really wish that a certain movie would finally get American distribution:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RbuEhwselE0

For some reason, Youtube was playing up for me, and wouldn't play, but, Agora looks interesting, but, I've heard there are problems with it, like Hypatia being an Atheist, and just an excuse to attack Christians with.

[Gaudior]

Funnily enough, it was Christianity that helped the development of witchcraft along. Look at Enochian Magic, the Sator Rotas and other magic squares, th Tetragrammaton...The Sacred Magic of Abramelin the Mage, the concept of evoking angels and demons in Goetia...etc. etc. It's rather the opposite of what one expects. :p We may still have had witchcraft without Christianity;s influence, but would it have been as developed and diverse as it is today? Who knows?

[Terra Mater]

Okay so think about this; they say in modern times witchcraft has become fluffier and in my opiniion the influence and evolution of Judaism, Christianity, and even Islam has a lot to do with it. So if we nevre had these three religions and maybe some other major religions, how do you think witchcraft would be like today?

Pretty much the same as it is now. The fluffiness isn't the fault of the other religions, that one is all ours.

Once upon a time you had to work for the knowledge and even work for the priviledge of studying it. Teachers got paid well in the slave labor of potential students to make it worth the time it took to teach. When you could not find the information all over the place just an eyeblink away, people had more respect for it and valued it more.

Now in the entitlement era, people think they have the right to the knowledge as opposed to seeing the practices as priviledges. And we know what people do when they think that have a right to something: they shit all over it, waste it, etc.

[WildThing]

I don't think we're "fluffier". If you're asking; "Would the New Agers even exist?!"...that's a sortof profound question. I'd have to say probably. Commercialism never dies, yo.

Personally, I rather wonder if we'd have as much diversity of paganism in America if not for the movements in history of christianity, judaism in general, or islam. They have really made a huge mark on history, as a rule. Which affects culture. Immigration, war, even trade all affects culture...and religion, especially those three, have affected those three things a great deal. Like, say, would American history still have the issue of slavery...if paganism had been the original top religion for us? Then, if not, would hoodoo and santeria still be as about as is today?

It's impossible to say though, because I'm sure that more than one combination of factors could create the type of culture and religious environment that we have today. And it's hard to pin the fact that something happened on any one group of people. Some obscure unknown person coulda expressed a thought in the dark ages that irrevocably changed everything.

Interesting thought, though!

[BryonMorrigan]

I'm not sure I'd qualify what Rome had as a significant amount of technology, maybe advanced for their time, but, the biggest advancements came when religion was taken out of science (if Rome had continued on, we may still be sacrificing innocent animals to divine the will of Gods, imagine your President basing his important decisions on what he could find in spilled guts, and, apparantly, to the Romans that was a science).

Hell, without getting into specifics...just look at the plumbing technology the Romans had compared to say, your average medieval city... Religion didn't necessarily play a role in the creation of Roman plumbing technology, but the "Dark Ages," where many such technologies were forgotten or lost, was most certainly a Christian creation.

[BryonMorrigan]

True, but, as far as I know, Bruno was Christian, or, maybe, somewhat of a Gnostic Christian....

Hey, Galileo was a Christian as well. That didn't stop the Church from arresting him for "heresy" (and having all of his writings be prohibited...) because of his scientific theories.

[David19]

Funnily enough, it was Christianity that helped the development of witchcraft along. Look at Enochian Magic, the Sator Rotas and other magic squares, th Tetragrammaton...The Sacred Magic of Abramelin the Mage, the concept of evoking angels and demons in Goetia...etc. etc. It's rather the opposite of what one expects. :p We may still have had witchcraft without Christianity;s influence, but would it have been as developed and diverse as it is today? Who knows?

QFT, and well said, modern occultism may not be as diverse without the influences of Christianity (and Islam as well), Judaism also contributed greatly (even in ancient pre-Christian times, Jews had a reputation as great Magicians/Mages).

[Circe3]

If we never had those three religions we'd have other religions and they would still influence each other along with paganism and witchcraft. So there's no way to tell how these two would have developed. Every civilization gets influenced by other civilizations. The Egyptians by the Summerians, the Greeks by the Egyptians, the Romans by the Greeks, Christianity by Paganism and now Paganism by Christianity. It's human evolution.

[Louisvillian]

Okay so think about this; they say in modern times witchcraft has become fluffier and in my opinion the influence and evolution of Judaism, Christianity, and even Islam has a lot to do with it.
Witchcraft, inasmuch as it has been practised in the West as a coherent system, has always been influenced by the Abrahamic religions. And that didn't make it fluffy; if anything, that had the opposite effect. Witchcraft systems of the early 20th century, Wicca being the most prominent examples of this, were strongly influenced by Western occultism, which in turn was pretty much made and maintained by Christian and Jewish mysticism.

If anything, the "fluffication" occurred decades later, due to the influence of New Age philosophy in the 1970's.


So if we never had these three religions and maybe some other major religions, how do you think witchcraft would be like today?Western esoterica influenced modern witchcraft to such an extent, that any coherent system would be pretty much unrecognisable. If there'd be any coherent system at all.

[Sekhmet Soul30]

I don't think that my people would of developed their magical system without Christianity. So while a lot of things the Christians did was bad there were some good points. Every part has two sides and we must take the good with the bad.