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Collington
August 15th, 2002, 10:56 AM
Allow me to ramble on for a bit...

Long long ago in a galaxy far away (or rather, when I was in my early teens) I thought "wow.. being a witch would be so cool." And I became girl number 1 in the "Little Witch" story. I got out books and checked out spells only to realize that movies and television had lied to me! *laugh* Regardless, before even TRYING a single spell, I took the books back to the library and called it quits.

Many years later, after knowing (almost as soon I could grasp the concept of religion) that Catholicism (and the rest of Christianity) was not right for me I began investigating.

I found Paganism and thought, "An answer to my prayers, this is what I've been looking for!" I was in [a major city] at the time and found a group who met once a month and decided to go check them out. Now I don't want to belittle ANYONE'S lifestyle... but suffice to say that they were not what I was seeking at the time. They did not discuss religion, but rather planned their next party. (I would like to add at this point, that I now understand where the reputation for Pagan orgies comes from.) Now again -- I have NOTHING against polyamory or sexual preferences or anything like that. But that was not what I was looking for at the time. I wanted guidance and someone to point me in the right direction. I wanted someone I could say, "Here's what I feel and believe." And they could say, "Here are some books you might want to check out."

So again, I was disgruntled and put away my spiritual quest for a while.

Here I am, years later, the religious version of my biological clock ticking loudly in my ears forcing me on another quest.

Let me tell you what I believe and feel.
I believe that I (and of course, everyone else) is part of nature, one with nature -- not above it. The moon -- the floating ball of rock in the sky controls the TIDES... how amazing is that? And the atoms in our body spin just like the earth (in terms of rate and axis). And when I look at that anatomical chart on the doctor's wall I'm amazed at the intricacies and am in awe of my body in a way I'd never realized. I worry about squishing a bug when I put down my blanket for a picnic… I love watching an ant take it’s newest find back to it’s home (but at the same time, I’m terrified of spiders!). I love to camp and I love to go for walks in the woods. My dream retirement home will be on a thousand privates acres in Colorado or Oregon and it has to have tons of trees and some sort of water feature (be it a lake or river).

In terms of religion: I’ve bucked the concept of a single male deity to whom I have to beg the forgiveness of and that I have to be eternally humble and unhappy with my lack of perfection. I believe in the concept of a Goddess -- Mother Earth who is not a 3rd party watching from somewhere, but rather a whole entity who is everything. I can accept the idea of casting spells as a method of praying or meditation, but I cannot accept them as a means of changing situations – anymore than praying to God changes things. So in that regard, I'm NOT looking for spell casting. I’m not a big fan of a class structure or hierarchy in religion, although I fully believe in and need the concept of “elders” or “teachers” or “gurus.”

All that being said (and that’s the bulk of it… you get the idea) I’m stuck at an impasse. I’ve discovered Paganism (the umbrella) as the beginning to my answer. However – I cannot find a subset that seems right. When looking at things like Ásatrú, Witchcraft, Reconstructionist, Druid, Wicca, etc, etc. I only seem to find very advanced works. I wish I could find a little chart… like the one for my printer that shows:

.................. Spells?...Type of deity?....Yadda....Yadda..Basic info

Religion A ......X.........Single female.......................X......Blah blah

Religion B..................Two: M & F............X.....................Blah blah

Religion C.......X.........Two males.............X............X......Blah blah

And very basic descriptions about holidays and rituals. Just something so I can pick a place to start. *laugh*

*Stepping off her soapbox* If anyone has any suggestions of specific things I should look at, I would really appreciate it. I'm not asking for a teacher, or for someone to waste their time with me -- I'd just love for someone to say -- you need to check out Religion D -- it sounds like what you're looking for.

Thanks so much!
-Lisa-

Faery-Wings
August 15th, 2002, 11:30 AM
You are not a bother at all.
:)

First of all, welcome to MW. If there is any place on the net that can help you, I'd say it is here.

Second of all, and I am in no way putting you down, why do you need a "specific" relgion or label? The reason why I ask is that I am simply Pagan myself. When I first started down on my Path, I thought Wicca was it. Due to the simple fact that is where most of the exposure to Pagan relions begin, I presume. I tried to fit my beliefs into Wicca and after a while I realized it wasn't working. So for me, being "Pagan" works wonderfully. I feel very comfortable taking a bit of this and a bit of that, and it works.

What I would suggest (and feel free to say No way!) is keep reading whatever seems to interest you. For instance, I tend to read a lot of books of Wicca. I keep what I like and disregard what doesn't work for me. Like, I don't cast circles, so,*shrug* anytime I come across over a passage about casting circles, I skip right on by :p. I also don't perform elaborate spells. I use visualization, often in conjuction with candles, crystals, etc.

Poke around this site, and ask any questions you may have. I think most of us here are a sort of "undefined Pagan-type " (for lack of a better word LOL).

I am sorry I don't have a better answer for you. let me know what you think, and if if I can help more, please just ask!

Many blessings,
Chris

Mithrea
August 15th, 2002, 12:18 PM
It's not a chart, but a quiz rather and please don't think I'm joking. Have you tried the Belief-O-Matic? It evaluates the things you tell it you believe in comparison with many different faiths. It's really interesting to see what it comes up with :) Here is the link:

http://www.belief.net/story/76/story_7665_1.html

Storm
August 15th, 2002, 12:35 PM
I was looking for something like that too. What tradition did what. It is very overwhelming. I don't know if I can help you. I seem to just babble and never make much sense. I consider myself pagan but I don't worship. Rather I revere. I never was Catholic or Christian..I was baptized Catholic but that was it. I know the little I know from Moses..the movie. Hah. And of course that Jesus was Gods son and such. As a teen I was an atheist. But I was spiritual. But I witnessed bizarre miracles that I-read I- could only attest to something Higher. I believed in life after death and I figured relatives hang out and take care of you. But I guess I believe in now, a level form of deity. I believe in a top level energy force that is in everything and is a consciousness in its most complex yet simplest form all at once. Then a second level sub-deities...the entities we give names to. I believe they are individual entities that are as perfect and flawed as is all of nature. Just stronger. More powerful. Some may have been born of the cosmic energy and some may have been human at one time. Then there are us after death, our souls and animal souls and then there are the elements, souls of plants and rocks and water entities and such that manifest in our minds eye as fairies and dragons and unicorns and such. Do they really exist? I think the energy is there and that is how some peoples minds pick up on them. Then on the lowest level there are entities without much conscious that are like orphaned children with no moral codes, no concept of right or wrong. Things some might call demons. This is a very simplified version of it but in a nutshell, it'll suffice.

I do believe in the power of prayer-spells, rituals. I guess I could give this a shot. All things have energy. Even rocks and gemstones, colors, all those things they list in spell book corrispondence charts. The powers that be..whatever deity, element, guardian spirit, your working with have limited power. The more items you use the more energy...your mind has energy power, the words you use.. all have energy power. It is up to your mind, your faith (energy all its own) to gel all this energy together and give it direction. All in all its up to your mind to make it work. If it doesn't feel right or you don't believe, energy goes nowhere. Does it always works. No. But sometimes it does and you feel in your gut that it is more than mere coincidence. Anyway this is just my take on things.

As far as books most of the Wicca books are beginner books. They tell you a little history and be carefull it isn't always accurate, they tell you about the Sabbats and the Wiccan creed and then into rituals and spellcraft. You take what you want and leave the rest. It is more about being a spiritual being than who or what you worship.
It really is more about experience and growth. It is not structured, it isn't clear and cut this is what it is, this is what you do.

I am not Wiccan, I don't celebrate the sabbats, or follow the creed. I am an honorable person because that is how my parents raised me. I put up a Tree and decorate it cause it makes me giddy, cause I love giving presents, and I love spending time with my family. Call it yule or call it christmas.. It doesn't matter much to me. I love Halloween because of the fun and the occult value I put on it. My point is you don't have to BE any of those things you listed. You CAN be just pagan. Read what interests you. Start with the beginner books and you will be surprised how your interest branch off into many different directions.

Lavender
August 15th, 2002, 12:55 PM
Hi Collington, what you said is very similar to how I feel too. There really isn't any thing that says you have to be connected with any group or subset. I'm a pagan. If pressed, I would say I'm a greenwitch. Some call it hedgewitch, herbal witch, whatever - I tend to use these terms interchangably. Maybe that's something you could check into. As Mol is famous for saying...it's only a label. What's important is how you feel.

adament
August 15th, 2002, 03:47 PM
i feel the same way!...i took the quiz posted above....waaaay cooool....i came out as a neo-pagan...w/new age, new thought, liberal quaker (?) leanings...


adament
red neck pagan

Collington
August 15th, 2002, 04:15 PM
Thank you so much for all your answers! My husband also says that I should not try to find a religion to fit.

It is my belief that organized religion takes all the faith out of it. In order for you to follow a particular path, you will, inevitably, have to give up some of your own ideas/beliefs.

All that being said though, I feel it's important to have a good foundation -- something strong and correct to build upon. I may start with a Druid base and then add Wicca studs and Hindu nails and an Ásatrú roof. Does that make sense?

Mithrea, Thanks for the Belief-O-Matic. That was very funny! Here's what it said about me: (top two at least)

1. New Age (100%)
2. Neo-Pagan (95%)


But ohhh... I hate that term "new age". Makes me think of ... 50-something year olds trying to grasp onto something they're missing. *laugh* (I just hate the term -- not the new age movement itself!!)

Back to the point -- the reason I'm looking for ... something... is that I need a bit of structure. I love the idea of rituals but don't want to make up my own! I can just see it -- it's the Summer solstice and I'd end up dancing around the living room in a tablecloth chanting "Walk like an Egyptian - boom shakalakalaka" while beating on a tambourine! I believe that many traditions that have been passed down are rooted in something true. That they have been refined over the years and these are the building blocks I need to start with.

I'll keep doing my homework. Thank you so much for your help, everyone. I definately posted in the right spot!!

The ever drifting,
-Lisa-

Tammy Sullivan
August 15th, 2002, 05:55 PM
maybe you should check out www.witchschool.com.
they have a cool wicca 101 program for free and you can learn alot. Perhaps it can help. It is only one tradition but who knows..it might be yours.

Faery-Wings
August 15th, 2002, 06:34 PM
Back to the point -- the reason I'm looking for ... something... is that I need a bit of structure. I love the idea of rituals but don't want to make up my own! I can just see it -- it's the Summer solstice and I'd end up dancing around the living room in a tablecloth chanting "Walk like an Egyptian - boom shakalakalaka" while beating on a tambourine! I believe that many traditions that have been passed down are rooted in something true. That they have been refined over the years and these are the building blocks I need to start with.

Yeah, but why not? Sounds like a fun ritual to me. And as long as you are having fun, connecting to your vision of the Divine and are celebrating in a way that is menaingful to you- go for it. (BTW, I'd participate in that rit LOL!!!)

I am currently enrolled in witchschool. I am using it solely for the structure. There are things there I love and others I disregard. The basic membership is free so you should give it a try. :)

PM me if you want to talk or have any other questions.

:D

Wicce
August 15th, 2002, 07:31 PM
I agree with everyone else.

I also agree with you...organized religion does take a lot of the faith out of things. Most people cannot exist in someone else's structure. So I think you should make your own structure...your summer solstice ritual sounded like fun, and what better way to serve whatever Deity you find calling you then by joy, dancing, and merriment?

But we all need a springboard; I just can't recommend one to you, only you know what's right for you (by the way, I loved the "druid base, wicca studs, hindu nails, asatru roof" statement...but what about the walls?? Hehe...I get it though, the walls are your own crafting :). Your beliefs resonate a bit with some Native American spirituality, have you ever considered checking some of it out?

Nondenominational, Eclectic Pagan is as good as any, maybe better, because we are all unique and cannot all fit into the same mold... :)

Tammy Sullivan
August 18th, 2002, 10:16 AM
I feel it's important to have a good foundation -- something strong and correct to build upon.
I have always believed that your gut reaction is correct. Your experience of deity is unique and personal, so if it feels right, then it is correct.

the reason I'm looking for ... something... is that I need a bit of structure. I love the idea of rituals but don't want to make up my own!
Why not? Rituals are supposed to be personal with meaning for you. If you get a strong sense of connection sitting out under a tree talking to your deity, isn't that as good as casting a circle? The key is what works for you . Experiment a little start with something like a ritual bath.

Collington
August 19th, 2002, 05:29 PM
Gretta (and everyone else)

Thanks so much for your advice. I enrolled in that witchschool -- and I figure even though I'm pretty sure Wicca isn't for me, if nothing else, I'll learn about it and that will make me a better person for it!! And it will also help me in my pick-and-pass method of discovering my religion. I'm sure there are things I'll uncover there that I will love and use! :-)

So again... thanks for your help and responces... it's nice to know there are helpful people out there!

-Lisa-