This is really starting to piss me off!

[dynamic_solstice]

Wherever I read it, its always the same!!!

Other religions don't get it, so why should we???

Imagine the trouble that would be caused if we wrote 'christian' instead of 'Christian'!!!

I rarerly see our religion spelt with a capital P. I have no idea why? Maybe its just not classed as worthy enough??? This is starting to annoy me. Paganism is just as meaningful as any other religion!

We shall keep it that way )0(

[Aidron]

You are aware that Paganism itself is not technically a religion, right?

[Gwyddyon]

Even if we assume Paganism is a religion, the notion of "paganism" was around for millenia before that was the case. It's hardly surprising that it's not often capitalized, just as I wouldn't expect to see the vast majority of improper nouns capitalized.

[WitchJezebel]

Don't let it get to you - what do you care what other's think? Getting fired up over things that don't matter is a waste of time and energy that could be better spent somewhere else.

[Astara Seague]

Don't let it get to you - what do you care what other's think? Getting fired up over things that don't matter is a waste of time and energy that could be better spent somewhere else.
you took the words right out of my mouth ;)

[Solya]

Mmmm, I tend to switch around with capitalisations a lot. I tend to write Paganism when talking about it in general, but prefer to use pagan when talking about a follower of a pagan path. It just doesn't feel like it becomes more meaningful when it is capitalised.

[misty]

Don't let it get to you - what do you care what other's think? Getting fired up over things that don't matter is a waste of time and energy that could be better spent somewhere else.

Exactly what I was going to say :).

[dynamic_solstice]

I know Paganism is not a religion. I am studying religion in my university degree and Hinduism is also not technically a religion. Yet it is ALWAYS capitalised!

See what I mean!

Paganism is made of many denominations such as Christianity, is it so different???

And for all who worry, its not getting to me, It was an article I just read that had made me so furious!

But apart from that I am very happy! :-)

[Caitlin.ann]

Maybe it makes a difference that Paganism is an umbrella term and Hinduism isn't (to my knowledge)?

[LostSheep]

Yes, it's true, of course, that paganism, or Paganism, is more a generic grouping than one particular religion, but I've noticed that some people (Ronald Hutton, for instance) tend to spell paganism, meaning as in the old days, with a small letter, but when talking about the modern version, with a capital.

[SphinYote]

But the term "pagan" technically simply refers to a nonchristian. Its a catch-all phrase for any nonchristian religion.

If one considers it a religion in the technical sense, its only because its become one in the last century or so. What it has become is a valid spiritual path, but a very young one.

And while it doesn't bother me either way, I do know of several people who considerthemselves pagan as a spiritual movement who would be ticked as hell for it to be considered a religion. There is a strong trend to consider any associations with "Religion" to be elitist and hierarchical (personally, I think it goes both ways--their need to define themselves as apart from religion, as religion as something bad, already places them in a holier-than-thou context, I'm just citing the example).

Its complicated, but I suspect that they'd be offended if it were capitalized, if it were considered a religion in and of itself.

Me? I don't claim to follow any religion, but I say this as someone undecided, not because any one religion (including nonreligion) is better or worse than any other. It's what the individuals make of it.

Yote

[brymble]

oh, jesus ****ing christ. aren't there more important uses for your precious energy than getting yourself worked into a snit over something as trivial as capitalization?

you can only be offended if you are offendable.

[SphinYote]

Interesting link:

http://www.religioustolerance.org/paganism.htm

It capitalizes the term...;)

[Nitefalle]

Who cares???

[TuathaSidhe]

I never really thought about it. Sometimes I cap. stuff and sometimes I dont. Often times my fingers type to fast and I end up missing that "shift" key and sometimes I dont..like today, I seem to be hitting it, LOL.

I would try to not let it get to you to much. Ive been in many a debate with people over not cap'ing "god". In the grand sceme of things, I highly doubt its on the large list of important things to worry about, LOL.

[Caitlin.ann]

Yeah its really nothing to get upset over as others have already stated.

[Meadhbh]

I think the real difference is that Christianty is the proper name for a belief system. While pagan is an umbrella term for a whole lot of pretty unrelated stuff. If all pagans had the same beliefs ect then yes it would be a proper name and should be written Pagan but since its not I really don't have a problem with the lower case.

[sarabethv]

The real difference is whether you are using it as a proper noun or as a descriptive noun or adjective.

Sorry, english teacher thing there.

Christianity isn't always capitalized correctly either.

[bellamandu]

honestly, i dont really think it matters whether or not its capitalized, unless you are speaking specifically for grammar class. :hehehehe: (in reference to sarabethv)

personally i could care less what other people think. you kinda learn to tune it out when you live in the bible belt long enough. its impossible to go out in public here nowadays and not recieve two or three of those annoying little jesus cards, or go to pick up what you thought was money laying on the ground and find out that its a booklet from a local church.

bleh...

a few weeks back i was walking around costco and saw this giant tv and yelled out, "GOOD GOD!", a man passes by and hands me a card and tells me "he IS a good god!" and i simply reply "yes, and she is a wonderful goddess as well!" and walk off.

needless to say he looked rather confused. :giggle:

[brymble]

The real difference is whether you are using it as a proper noun or as a descriptive noun or adjective.

Sorry, english teacher thing there.

Christianity isn't always capitalized correctly either.


Actually the real difference is whether or not you really want to waste energy on getting upset over details of no consequence.

but if you're going all english teacher on us:

wweecd? (what would ee cummings do?)

[BlackLili]

Actually the real difference is whether or not you really want to waste energy on getting upset over details of no consequence.

but if you're going all english teacher on us:

wweecd? (what would ee cummings do?)
Have I told you I missed you? :)

[Aidron]

Actually the real difference is whether or not you really want to waste energy on getting upset over details of no consequence.

but if you're going all english teacher on us:

wweecd? (what would ee cummings do?)

You don't need to get upset or truthfully invest emotionally into the words in order to use proper grammar. :eyebrow:

Then again, as a recovering grammar nazi, I tend to be overly sensitive about the things people never learned in freakin' 3rd grade.

[brymble]

Have I told you I missed you? :)



well no, but don't feel bad, it's hard to hit a moving target.

ps. thanks for the plums, man. they were delicious.

(edited to add: now there's something worth getting miffed about: do what you like with the english language, but keep yer mitts off my plums.)

[Xander67]

I think a part of it also may just be the author's preference?

:whatgives

[Ourobori]

I haven't read all the replies but the reason that Christianist is capitalised is because it's a name. Christ. You capitalise names. If Paganism were based on a God called Pagan, it to would be capitalised.

[brymble]

I haven't read all the replies but the reason that Christianist is capitalised is because it's a name. Christ. You capitalise names. If Paganism were based on a God called Pagan, it to would be capitalised.

say i were to start a religion worshipping ee cummings. should "eeism" be capitalized?

why must life be so complex?!?

[Aidron]

say i were to start a religion worshipping ee cummings. should "eeism" be capitalized?

why must life be so complex?!?

Actually, grammatical rules exist to make life less complex. They provide structure, which dispels chaos, and gives you a guideline with which to follow. You do not have to exercise good grammar, but it's there and available.

Like you said in regards to being easily offended... complexity only happens if you make it so.

[brymble]

Actually, grammatical rules exist to make life less complex. They provide structure, which dispels chaos, and gives you a guideline with which to follow. You do not have to exercise good grammar, but it's there and available.

Like you said in regards to being easily offended... complexity only happens if you make it so.


dude, you sound like you could use a plum.

[Aidron]

dude, you sound like you could use a plum.

I do enjoy the occasional plum, but those come from the produce section. Whatever you're referring to eludes me, although from the tone of your post I can't truthfully say I give a hurled piece of monkey feces.

[Ourobori]

say i were to start a religion worshipping ee cummings. should "eeism" be capitalized?



Yes. Because it refers to a name.

[Philosophia]

I looked it up and found this (http://www.ashleenogaea.com/reporter.htm):


The word "Pagan" should always be capitalized when it refers to one or more specific religions or a follower of Wicca or Druidry, with or without the (capitalized) prefix Neo-. Drums may pound out pagan rhythms, but you hear them at a Pagan gathering.

[Aidron]

I looked it up and found this (http://www.ashleenogaea.com/reporter.htm):

Right, because one is an adjective and one is a proper noun. I thought that was obvious though. :foh:

[Xander67]

man, I really need to brush up on my Grammah! lol

it has been 23 years since I graduated High School. I hated English partly because of the teacher I had so I barely passed and of course forgot most of it.

[Philosophia]

Right, because one is an adjective and one is a proper noun. I thought that was obvious though. :foh:

It is. But I looked it up in case because I know some people won't believe me. :hehehehe: I know Sarabethv said the same thing as well.

Edited to add: I know a website isn't usually "proof" enough but some would rather read that then what I would say (either that or I've been hanging out in the PP forum for too long ;) ).

[Aidron]

man, I really need to brush up on my Grammah! lol

it has been 23 years since I graduated High School. I hated English partly because of the teacher I had so I barely passed and of course forgot most of it.

I'm not attacking you specifically, just the mindset that could be perceived from your post. If one does not know basic grammar, tough. Do not expect those of us who comprehend it (and let me tell you, I do not understand it because it was programmed into my head at birth; like anything, I had to learn, and no it isn't always easy) to abide ignorance, stupidity, and laziness when there's no reason for it. This isn't a matter of anyone forcing grammar on the rest of the world, but rather fighting back when silly excuses are forced upon us.



It is. But I looked it up in case because I know some people won't believe me. :hehehehe: I know Sarabethv said the same thing as well.

Edited to add: I know a website isn't usually "proof" enough but some would rather read that then what I would say (either that or I've been hanging out in the PP forum for too long ;) ).

They'll likely pass it off as "Well, that's just what one site says.", you know, the way people are now insisting Wikipedia is complete garbage. No, you should not take Wikipedia has the end all of knowledge, but it is a good resource and can lead you in the right direction if the information there is less than accurate. But no, people would rather mindlessly discredit something and remain lazy, I suppose.

And I'm sorry, read what you have to say? Let's not go picking up any bad habits or anything. :p

[Amilee]

Who cares???

Apparantly everyone who`s replied so far including yourself. :cutie:

[Philosophia]

They'll likely pass it off as "Well, that's just what one site says.", you know, the way people are now insisting Wikipedia is complete garbage. No, you should not take Wikipedia has the end all of knowledge, but it is a good resource and can lead you in the right direction if the information there is less than accurate. But no, people would rather mindlessly discredit something and remain lazy, I suppose.

Agreed.


And I'm sorry, read what you have to say? Let's not go picking up any bad habits or anything. :p

:nyah:

[Aidron]

Agreed.



:nyah:


Not reading this! Not reading! Not reading! Not reading!

I have enough bad habits as it is. :2G:

[Xander67]

I'm not attacking you specifically, just the mindset that could be perceived from your post. If one does not know basic grammar, tough. Do not expect those of us who comprehend it (and let me tell you, I do not understand it because it was programmed into my head at birth; like anything, I had to learn, and no it isn't always easy) to abide ignorance, stupidity, and laziness when there's no reason for it. This isn't a matter of anyone forcing grammar on the rest of the world, but rather fighting back when silly excuses are forced upon us.



no offence taken, in fact I will publicly admit I was a lazy sloth in school. I wish I would have paid more attention and now at 40, I am going to be going to part time classes at a local college but before I do that I need to take high school refresher courses at a comunity college.

I take no offence to people forceing proper grammer.. I was actually being serious in my post by admiting I have a lot to learn and it was meant to be somewhat of a confessional..

[SphinYote]

Apparantly everyone who`s replied so far including yourself. :cutie:

We care alot about our right not to care, apparently.

[DragonsChest]

Wherever I read it, its always the same!!!

Other religions don't get it, so why should we???

Imagine the trouble that would be caused if we wrote 'christian' instead of 'Christian'!!!

I rarerly see our religion spelt with a capital P. I have no idea why? Maybe its just not classed as worthy enough??? This is starting to annoy me. Paganism is just as meaningful as any other religion!

We shall keep it that way )0(

And yet, within your own signature block, you do not capitalize "pagan" in an email address that you must have typed in yourself:

first_pagan_wiccan_church@hotmail.co.uk

Things that make you go, hmmmmm.......

[Aidron]

And yet, within your own signature block, you do not capitalize "pagan" in an email address that you must have typed in yourself:

first_pagan_wiccan_church@hotmail.co.uk

Things that make you go, hmmmmm.......

I have signatures turned off, so I didn't notice this. :falloffch

Can you even capitalize e-mail addresses? I've never tried. :foh:

[DragonsChest]

I have signatures turned off, so I didn't notice this. :falloffch

Can you even capitalize e-mail addresses? I've never tried. :foh:

Yep, you can. I entered in my email addy in my signature block. It let me capitalize.

[Aidron]

Yep, you can. I entered in my email addy in my signature block. It let me capitalize.

When you signed up for the account or just when you typed it up in your signature? It's the former I'm curious about as I can't recall ever seeing one that was in anything but lowercase letters. :hrmm:

[Agaliha]

I personally don't get worked up over things like this...I will capitalize a religion when need be (and out of habit), but I don't flip out when other's don't.

[Aidron]

I personally don't get worked up over things like this...I will generally capitalize a religion when need be (and out of habit), but I don't flip out when other's don't.

Is this because you are unable to perform the required somersault for flipping out?

That's right. I'm on to you. :2G:

[Agaliha]

Is this because you are unable to perform the required somersault for flipping out?
That's right. I'm on to you. :2G:

:2G: Your deduction skillz are just too eerie.
:fpeek:

[SphinYote]

We need a flip-out emoticon....one that is cranky and does backflips. It would actually be quite appropriate for me on my bad days....

[DragonsChest]

When you signed up for the account or just when you typed it up in your signature? It's the former I'm curious about as I can't recall ever seeing one that was in anything but lowercase letters. :hrmm:

I don't remember what I did when I signed up. I was referring to the fact that in the signature block, where you have complete control over the lowercase and uppercase-nesses of letters, the OP, who is complaining about the lack of respect and capitalization to the word "pagan", didn't capitalize it herself when she created her signature.

:hehehehe:

[Aidron]

I don't remember what I did when I signed up. I was referring to the fact that in the signature block, where you have complete control over the lowercase and uppercase-nesses of letters, the OP, who is complaining about the lack of respect and capitalization to the word "pagan", didn't capitalize it herself when she created her signature.

:hehehehe:

I assumed, but now you have sparked a mystery I must get to the bottom of. And by 'must' I mean I'll forget all about this in the next 5 minutes.

[DragonsChest]

I assumed, but now you have sparked a mystery I must get to the bottom of. And by 'must' I mean I'll forget all about this in the next 5 minutes.

:boing:

[cheddarsox]

Hmmm...does a capital letter denote respect? I capitalize the J in Jehovah's witnesses, but I don't have much respect for their faith.

I don't capitalize the c in cheddar when I sign my posts...maybe because my screename is an adjective, rather than my proper name...or maybe I just have self respect issues.

I don't capitalize the p in pagan, because as far as I know pagan is always an adjective, because I don't know of a faith called pagan, but if you consider "pagan" as your religion and capitalize the P, I'll support you.

Most followers of pagan faiths have a more specific name for their trad. Some capitalize it, some don't. I tend to be half and half since pantheism isn't really a religion to most people, even though it's mine.

I think, for good or bad, the internet is causing a very quick evolution of grammar. I find it fascinating, and I wonder how much will carry over to paper and formal use and how much of it will last.

Interesting thread

[Theres]

oh, jesus ****ing christ.
ahem... i believe that should be Jesus ****ing Christ.

[Aidron]

I don't capitalize the p in pagan, because as far as I know pagan is always an adjective, because I don't know of a faith called pagan, but if you consider "pagan" as your religion and capitalize the P, I'll support you.

Actually, is it not always an adjective. It can sometimes be a noun.

"I support pagan practices." - Adjective

"I am a Pagan." - Noun

[patch]

I don't tend to look so far into possible-but-unlikely connotations of poor grammar.

Worst persecution complex evarrrr.

[aluokaloo]

ehh why let something as simple as capitilization bother you? it's still paganism with a P p.

[Xentor]

I don't capitalize "christian" when used as an adjective or adverb, either.

[SphinYote]

ehh why let something as simple as capitilization bother you? it's still paganism with a P p.

Eeew. Paganism has P in it?

That's why I go to the ool, rather than the pool.

But I am a person, and its amazing how coffee contributes to that p.

[Xander67]

OT: Coffee gives me the Poops! lol

[Windsmith]

It's only bugged me once: in an essay I wrote for an anthology a few years ago, I wrote something about "two Pagans barefoot in a park." When the essay came back from the editor, the "p" had been decapitalized. I used my sacred "stet" privileges, pointing out that Paganism was my religion, and they put it back, all shiny and new.

I don't get upset about it. A lot of the time, I think it's done out of ignorance, not an intent to offend. Most people still aren't used to the idea of "Pagan" as a religion (and a lot of people argue that "Pagan" isn't a religion, but we have plenty of other threads about that), and don't know that anyone might want it capitalized.

Asking nicely, and explaining why, gets more accomplished than ranting and raving and stamping our feet about it.

[LostSheep]

I've been thinking, that it may also simply be because people, such as myself, sometimes find it either a bit of an effort or too complicated to remember to hold down the shift key at the same time as the p, even if they may have intended to. i often do that, as can be seen.

[aluokaloo]

Eeew. Paganism has P in it?

That's why I go to the ool, rather than the pool.

But I am a person, and its amazing how coffee contributes to that p.

:hehehe: :rotfl:8O:thumbsup:

[cheddarsox]

Actually, is it not always an adjective. It can sometimes be a noun.

"I support pagan practices." - Adjective

"I am a Pagan." - Noun

I see your point, but it feels to me like this...I am a writer, so yeah, writer is a noun, but not a proper noun. It describes a person who writes, the way pagan describes a person who follows a pagan faith. But I don't see that just because it is a noun it follows that it should be capitalized.

I'm a Red Head...does that mean people will now have to respect my red hair more because I capitalized it?

I know this sounds snarky, but I am not all taking this or intending this personally, I'm just having fun with the semantics.

I really don't care if people use a capital P or not. Pagan is such an amorphous term, I'd never rely on it alone to describe what I believe.

[Darth Brooks]

Paganism is made of many denominations such as Christianity, is it so different???

I don't view my religion as a "denomination" of anything, but as a religion unto itself. I consider it to be a pagan religion in the sense that it takes most of its inspiration from pre-Judaic sources, particularly Egyptian paganism, and yet it also blends this with Jewish mysticism and what Isaac Bonewits calls "Neogothic witchcraft." (With his nose turned up, no less.) Also because it is nature-based (i.e., the dark side of nature).

I would agree that Setianity should be included under the umbrella of "Neopagan" (although not all Setians would agree, mind you, depending on how they define "pagan," which often has a lot to do with how they define "nature" and "religion"), but this is not the same thing as saying it is a denomination of a single religion.

I am undecided as to whether or not the proper way to spell "pagan" is with a lowercase or capital "p." Sometimes I say I'm a Pagan and sometimes I say I'm pagan. Sometimes I say I'm a pagan and sometimes I say I'm Pagan. But I always spell "Neopagan" with a capital N. I don't really have any logical reasons in mind when I do so. I just go with the flow on this one.

[Know Your Rights]

Don't let it get to you - what do you care what other's think? Getting fired up over things that don't matter is a waste of time and energy that could be better spent somewhere else.

I care what others think when it's my English teacher marking my english essay and he doesn't seem to understand that other religions that aren't his own should be capitalized, thereby, docking me marks for doing it the right way ^^ (nevermind that he doesn't know how to read a bloody essay anyway)

[watersprite]

I really don't think that is something I would worry about. Neither would I want to be categorized as a "religion." That would kind of turn me off. I have had enough of "religion" and it's connotations.