Reiki for Money

[Kailen]

Lately I've been looking for a Reiki Master in my local area to teach me Reiki, however, none seem suitable. They all seem like they're in it purely for the money. That is, they expect me to pay simply to talk to them. I don't mind paying for a Reiki session, for the treatment, for the courses themselves, those I will gladly pay for. Howver, when they want to charge me the same amount just to TALK to them without any Reiki involved, as they would charge for a session of Reiki, that just seems, well...wrong.

I don't want a teacher who is going to rip me off and take money from my wallet to just talk. I want a teacher who I can develop a relationship with as more than just someone I'm paying to teach me Reiki. Someone I can develop a relationship with as a guide, a friend etc. Yet how can that relationship develop if they want to take money out of my wallet for me to just TALK to them?

Anyway, peoples thoughts please?

[Solya]

Wow, that's insane. I always feel like treatments and any kind of teachings given are worthy of payment, but the talks outside of that should be given free of charge. When I completed the first half of my healing course, my teacher told me I am always welcome to call him and tell him how I'm coping with everything I have been taught. Free of charge, of course.

When you are a healer, you are just an instrument for universal energies. It's a loving energy that can only really stream with full power if you work with it in a pure and simple manner. Charging people money just so they can talk with you is not a part of "pure and simple" and will never be a part of that.

[Rudas Starblaze]

part of being a teacher or a student is having the ability to talk to one another.
also, in order to gain a relationship (in any form) there must be communication as in talking.

grant it, the whole "paying for it" is BS imo, but its also based on the point of view of each person involved.

perhaps you should find a reiki teacher who is self taught, as usually, in most situations in anything, those who charge, were charged themselves.

[Kailen]

perhaps you should find a reiki teacher who is self taught, as usually, in most situations in anything, those who charge, were charged themselves.


I went onto the "UK Reiki Federation" page...and sent a mass mail. Well, not quite, but I wrote out a mail and C&P'd it to everyone close enough to me. Their mailing system on the page doesn't allow you to use the "return" key while entering the text for security reasons, so it has to be one solid block of text, which sucks. But here's what I wrote:

"Hello, I am contacting you because for a long time I have had an interest in learning reiki. A couple of years ago I did a course in my reiki III with Penny <name here>. However I did things a bit backwards, I didn't do my Reiki I or II, so I couldn't receive a certificate for passing the III. She did refer me to a couple of her students, however I didn't "click" with them, so I didn't pursue learning from them. I asked to meet one of them for a brief chat, just to get to know them a little and they came back to me quoting prices for half hour or an hour of their time. I am willing to pay, but not for a chat. What I'd like is a teacher/mentor who I can know as a person and talk to as a person. Someone who hopefully, as time passes, I can develop a friendship with as a guide. I know myself, I know who and what I am, I know my own capabilities, boundaries and requirements. I have had much previous experience with energy and working with it. Though not always in the same manner as Reiki, I am usually more directive. Similar to "psychic surgery" as Penny called it when I was doing my Reiki III. Actually shaping the energy to achieve the needed effect rather than allowing the energy to take it's own course. Though I believe energy must be respected, what I do is always a request, not a demand. I have told you about myself in the hopes that you'll understand what it is I seek and in the hope that you will contact me with no misconceptions between us. May your paths find you peace, David."




Hopefully that didn't come across too heavy. I've had one response so far saying that a lady doesn't think she's suitable because she also charges to talk to her "clients." That, for me, told me a lot. It's a business to her, pure and simple. Makes me think that original reason for Reiki has been lost.

[Rudas Starblaze]

sadly enough, the origins for several things like this have been lost....

[brymble]

The history of Reiki is known. I was in the process of beginning my studies when my manual was lost in the fire, but the history of Reiki was covered. They charge for treatments and teaching because an equal energy exchange is required. When reiki wol of as first developed, it was free, but without the energy exchange people began taking it for granted and not caring for themselves to remain healed. It's the energy exchange that is important, not the money.

Unfortunately in our consumer culture, money is equated with energy (it is not engery, it is a physical symbol of energy, but most people fail to make that distinction.) In a capitalist society there are also value judgements that are implied with the ability or lack of ability to pay money (rather than some other energy form such as time or effort) that close a lot of doors for people, and also give false justification for "righteous" greed.

A reiki master should not charge you just to speak to them. An equal exchange of energy for speaking would be listening. This is different from training and teaching, and should be acknowledged as such.

(I myself have been trained in the laying on of hands, but not reiki, so I don't have any of the degrees and can't market myself as a reiki practioner in my brochures and business cards. The techniques are similar, but reiki is a specific method to achieve the same ends.)

[LotusFlower]

:strike:

[brymble]

Having to "pay for attunements" or someone to "teach" you about something that's so abstract really seems a bit goofy, for lack of any nicer term I can think of. This reminds me of the tarot card readers that charge you $80 for a 5 minute reading and then expect $300 more to "remove a curse." Bull****. The best readings I ever received were free or done as an exchange.



I'm a professional tarot reader and I do take exception to that stereotype about professional readers. Do you believe for some reason that tarot readers or reiki masters don't need food and rent like the rest of us? Expecting compensation for time and training does not equate to scamming for profit.

I think it's unreasonable for those he mentioned to charge for a session just to talk to them, however, we're not shamans supported by our tribe anymore. As much problems as I have for what passes for capitalism today, it's the system we're stuck working with. I paid for certification training for NLP, and am considering paying to join a Tarot Association, for the professional benefits of doing such. Yes, I would and do take money for using the cards and my NLP skills for helping people with their problems relating to states of consciousness. Does it make me "bad" to want to be able to pay rent after weeks of intensive training? Does it make my trainer "bad" to want to pay his rent after opening his home to us, and the expense, effort, and exhaustion of that training, not to mention the expense, effort, and exhaustion he went through to become a trainer himself? Is it "different" because it's reiki and not NLP?

Yes the energy exchange philosophy is misunderstood and abused by those that benefit from and take advantage of the consumer mentality. But is it outrageous to expect to be able to survive with a roof over our heads in the only economic system we have to work with in this country? Is it somehow different for alternative spiritualities and healers than it is for mainstream ones? Do I have less of a right to charge for spiritual services as an empathic consultant as my friend who is a Jewish cantor, or my brother's Lutheran minister? Or am I somehow supposed to be "above" the need for what passes for usable energy in this economic system because I am "alternative" (alternative to WHAT?)

I suppose I could go money-free and be a full-time Rainbow or something but would that be fair to my children, who long for stability after the upheavals of a divorce and a fire? I suppose I could keep it at a hobby level, be satisfied with free training by a loving, stoned hippie on a blanket at a festival or something, and read cards and practice for free while I work some sucky corporate job to pay bills, but would that be fair to my clients, who deserve the quality, training, time and attention of developed, professional skills?

How many of those "$80 for 15 minutes" readers do you actually know personally in real life? How many serious full-time pros, in reiki or tarot or any other "spiritual" field do you actually know personally in real life, or are you just basing these judgements on hearsay, rumor, TV-hype and sterotype?

For your information, the standard going rate for Tarot in the Hudson is about $75-$80 an hour with a sliding scale, and in the Genesee Valley where I came from, it was a little less, about $1 per minute, again with a sliding scale. NLP gets about $75 an hour for a new practioner, my trainer charges $100 an hour because he's got WAY more experience and training and is actually something of a name in the field. I need to let you know I have never met a professional card reader who has not had a sliding scale, or who wouldn't give occaisional "freebies" when they could afford it to those really in need, (or just for the fun of it, such as the one I offered you when I'm over the flu) and I've been doing this for 11 years.

Mostly, however, we do charge, because we like food clothing and shelter every bit as much as the next guy. If that's "greedy to you, think about how many bookings a reader gets per week, the effort and cost of self-promotion (placing ads, printing business cards and brochures, maintaining mailing lists and webpages) and hauling a table to festivals and psychic fairs, and the cost of practioner space at shops or chiropractor's offices, and then figure the cost of rent in the Hudson Valley, and the fact that we don't get benefits like health insurance and retirement plans, and then pass all the judgement you want. And yes, online readers charge too, and generally charge more per minute because the services usually take up to half to meet their needs, the hours they do it are generally less per week, and the burnout rate is extremely high. The online readers I know are barely making rent like the rest of us. I have never met a professional reader who is rich, most of them barely squeak into the middle class, if they can get even that far.

Stick that in your deck and shuffle it. Sorry for the irritated tone, but I'm really struggling to start my practice and improve my professionalism, and the accusation of readers who charge being greedy get to me just as much as the flakey teens who pick up their frist deck of cards and think they can make a fortune after reading out of the book for a week. I'm serious about this. Whatever else I do to make ends meet while my family recovers from the fire and my client base grows to a level that can support us full-time, this is my job, it's my career and calling. It's what I've invested in and trained in. It's not a game or a hobby or a fluffy new-age glitter trip. If that's greedy, well, too bad. I've been homeless and "free", and quite frankly, I prefer giving in to the system enough to stabilze at the moment, becauae that kind of "freedom" is really rough on kids.

[aranarose]

As a reader and a Reiki Master I have to make a decision. Either I devote myself full-time to being an intuitive spiritual counselor (I'm ordained so I can get away with legally calling myself that :lol: ) or I work a real job. I literally CANNOT devote myself to both a real job and what it would take to become the counselor that I want to be. Which means if I want a roof over my head, food on my table, etc. I HAVE to charge. Period.

I'm not reading for pay and I'm not healing for pay right now because I've got too much else going on in my life, but I will go back to it. And when I do, it will be so that I can quit working the "real" job.

There are also practical reasons for charging. If we let them, people would monopolize our time, and use us as a crutch, dropping responsibility for their lives into our laps. Charging a fee helps to curb that. Sure, there are some people that will fork over insane amounts of money just to have you run their life, but then you just say, "I'm sorry, I'm all booked right now. My next available appointment is . . ."

Sadly, most people who get free readings don't care. They don't listen. They don't do what needs to be done to change their lives. And then they get pissed off at the reader when things don't go the way that they want them to. People who pay for a reading VALUE that reading much more.

I'm not saying that all people who get free readings or free healings behave that way, but in my experience, the vast majority do. And they come back for more and more and more free readings, sucking your time and your energy away for NOTHING. No exchange of any sort. At least when someone pays me for a reading or for healing, I can take that money and do something with it. This is a tangible, physical world, and "Thanks a bunch!" doesn't feed my son.

Charging for simply talking though? Load of bullshit. Plain and simple. My clock doesn't start ticking until the reading or healing begins. But then again, I charge a flat fee for readings and healings, not per minute or per hour. Granted that flat fee is based on the average time it takes to do such a reading or healing, but if it goes over that average, I don't charge extra, and if it's under that average, it makes up for the times it does go over. The time that we spend going over what will happen in the reading or healing session doesn't count, nor does the time spent talking after the session is over. That's just sort of wrapped up into it. Anyone that charges just to find out a bit of information from them is either so full of themselves that they'll suck anyway, or they've been burned a few to many times by the bottom feeders that like to float around the alternative communities looking for freebies.

[LotusFlower]

:strike:

[brymble]

As a reader and a Reiki Master I have to make a decision. Either I devote myself full-time to being an intuitive spiritual counselor (I'm ordained so I can get away with legally calling myself that :lol: ) or I work a real job.

I have to wonder that we have come to take our spiritual needs so much for granted that being a reader or a healer isn't considered a "real" job. What's unreal about it?

[aranarose]

I have to wonder that we have come to take our spiritual needs so much for granted that being a reader or a healer isn't considered a "real" job. What's unreal about it?

Language limitations? Thing of it is, is that being a reader and healer takes MORE out of me than any other "real" job that I could do. I currently work as a transcriptionist from home, about the only thing I can handle doing at the moment, because with my issues going on right now, I MUST have the flexibility I get by being self-employed.

I don't think non-readers and non-healers realize just how much energy it takes. After working a full day, I have little left to give. If I do readings all day, I have little left to give. What little I do have left goes to my son and home.

Even casual readers, I think, don't quite understand just how hard the work is, how hard it is to devote yourself to reading and/or healing as a full-time profession. Not only does the healing/reading take a LOT of energy, there are the practical business aspects too. How much to charge, how to get clients to keep the money coming in.

Yes, it's a real job, but I use the limited language we have to make a distincition between that and what society in general considers a real job.

Hell, I work from home, and generally make enough to support myself, though with recent health troubles, I've fallen way behind on everything. But even when I'm making bill money, savings money, and spending money in abundance, my family keeps asking when I'll get a "real" job. Because it's not a "real" job unless you have a boss, just like the rest of 'em.... I hate having a boss, and I hate being a boss LOL I like my job. I have loose deadlines, and lots of free time.

I want to go reading/healing pro again soon, but have to heal myself and my life first. Then that will be my REAL job. :lol:

[LotusFlower]

:strike:

[brymble]

You asked in your post, in rather condescending terms, why anyone should pay for a service like reiki at all, and recieved responses from two professionals explaining why. Then you flame us and accuse us of negativity.

Someone needs to turn the computer off and take some time to breathe.

[LotusFlower]

:strike:

[brymble]

I want to go reading/healing pro again soon, but have to heal myself and my life first. Then that will be my REAL job. :lol:

What kind of a community, beyond the Pagan community, do you have where you are? I may be getting referrals from my therapist soon. (I'm not sure how I feel about seeing NLP clients yet, but I did ok with the cards at Beltane.) There are other venues besides Pagan shops for reading and healing work. Try health food stores, hippie shops, yoga studios, chiropractor's offices...check the local craigslist for shared practioner space.

[LotusFlower]

:strike:

[brymble]

Read the post above yours.

And if anything is condescending, it is your line of, "Someone needs to turn the computer off and take some time to breathe."

Pot. Kettle. Black.

I can tell you are feeling angry because your do not percieve your need to be heard and understood is being met. I apologize for the tone of my post. I was feeling angry because my need for respect was not met.

Do you feel that taking a break from the computer and breathing a bit when you are clearly so upset is bad advice? What benefit do you get from continued flaming? If you feel flaming us is meeting your needs in a better way than stopping and breathing, then go ahead and continue, but that will not meet our need for peace, so we will probably ignore you.

[LotusFlower]

:strike:

[brymble]

I am sorry to hear that you are interpreting my attempts to communicate peacefully and resolve the conflict as condescending. I am not able to influence your interpretation in any way, I can only modify my communication.

I have attempted to acknowledge your feelings and needs and appologized for my tone. When you call me condescending I feel frustrated and weary because my need for peaceful resolution is unmet.

I am requesting that you drop the issue, so that we can discuss the OP's topic. If you are unable to meet that request, then I will meet my need for peace in another way, such as reporting you for personal attack or putting you on my ignore list. I would rather not take that action however, and so I'm repeating my request for a peaceful resolution and returning to the origial topic.

[LotusFlower]

:strike:

[brymble]

I am putting you on ignore so we can peacefully continue the conversation.

However, I will respond to your question as to why I discussed professional tarot. I discussed my career as a card reader because you brought up tarot readers in a manner that appeared to myself and another poster to paint us as scam artists, without making the distinction between them and honest earners until after you recieved our two offended responses. The original topic was on the ethics of charging money for reiki, and your post suggested that charging money for spiritual services or education was unethical. You compared people who charge for reiki to the tarot scam artists, and myself and another professional reader responded clarifying our position on the need for charging for spiritual services.

I am not going to argue with you any more. I still believe taking a break to breathe would be helpful to you, but I observe that you are not open to that suggestion.

[aranarose]

What kind of a community, beyond the Pagan community, do you have where you are? I may be getting referrals from my therapist soon. (I'm not sure how I feel about seeing NLP clients yet, but I did ok with the cards at Beltane.) There are other venues besides Pagan shops for reading and healing work. Try health food stores, hippie shops, yoga studios, chiropractor's offices...check the local craigslist for shared practioner space.

We have two shops, one the pagan shop where the owners have bad vibes, and the other more of a new age shop. They offer readings, and have a monthly psychic fair, but to get in there as a reader is a pain to say the least. Auditions with the three owners, PLUS the five current readers, and a one to two year waiting list. So basically, give away 8 readings, and then wait for ages to maybe get in.

Other than that, I'm not really sure what there is around here. Previously, I pretty much relied exclusively on word-of-mouth, and it served me well, but most of my clients moved onto other readers when I went into my current exile.

I'll have to check around and see when I'm doing a bit better with myself.

[Kailen]

Well, I can no longer see any of Lotus' posts. However from what I can see of the responses, I'd like to clarify something.

In no way was I saying that paying for the healing of reiki, or the training in it, is a scam. I would like to do the reiki training because I already feel I am an accomplished healer. Doing the reiki courses is not so much to teach me how to heal a person (though it will teach a "system"), as it is to have the certificate to say I can practice professionally. The idea of practicing professionally is that I will then be able to charge for services and eventually it would become my "job." Though, as others have stated, my sentiments are more that it is my calling, rather than doing it as a job. But we all need to eat, we all need a roof over our heads and we all need to pay bills. Well, maybe some freeloaders don't, but any decent person who isn't a leech on another person does.

I am sorry if you (Lotus) have encountered people who have scammed you in the past, however I would appreciate it if you do not apply the same label to everyone who practices their path in a professional manner.



Brymble, Aranarose, I wish you both much fortune in pursuing your path. I truly hope that you both receive the client base you need to support your families.