Vegetarians

[Vala]

Hi! I was just wondering :confused: if most Wiccans/ pagans/ witches etc were vegetarians becoz they all respect nature, animals and eating animals isn't respecting and looking after them???

Also, I would like to call myself a Witch and also a Wiccan but I've gone through soooo many years of not believing in the christian God but I feel really different when it comes to believing in the God and Goddesses that Wiccans/Pagans believe in. How did everyone else begin to believe in their God/desses? Did it just feel right or did you grow up with the idea???

**Thanks** :sunny: :wave: :boing:

[Witchy Cowgirl]

I'm a Christian Witch that loves steak, burgers, fried chicken, and all that kinda stuff.

[Sora]

Hmm. I'm a vegetarian (lacto-ovo), and I became one simply because I did not like meat and it was the only way I could stop my parents from forcing steak upon me. Then I read more about the treatment of animals and the ecological and economical impact of raising meat for consumption, and my ideas of why I am a vegetarian morphed into a more solid concept that 'meat is uggie'. I hold true to those values now, but I do not think that being pagan is a large part of why I am a vegetarian.

I think that the way I see the Goddess has always been with me, I cannot really give you an example of a time where I started believing. I was not raised with the concept, but I feel as if I were. It is me.

That doesn't help, does it.

[Vala]

Yes, that does help. It's kinda how I feel, sort of, I think.

[Yvonne Belisle]

I am pagan and more carniviorous than omnivorious. I think it is simply a matter of personal preference. Many pagans and wiccans see thing differently when it comes to who they worship and why I think it is just a matter of finding what makes you feel right and going from there.

[Skye]

Originally posted by Vala
Hi! I was just wondering :confused: if most Wiccans/ pagans/ witches etc were vegetarians becoz they all respect nature, animals and eating animals isn't respecting and looking after them???

Well, I am a witch/heathen, and I eat what I want....everything has a spirit (even plants), but we all need to make a living. I figure if you need to kill for food, just recognise that what you are eating was once a living being(plant or animal).

You know we humans are on the food chain as prey also. We could be dinner too!




Originally posted by Vala
Also, I would like to call myself a Witch and also a Wiccan but I've gone through soooo many years of not believing in the christian God but I feel really different when it comes to believing in the God and Goddesses that Wiccans/Pagans believe in. How did everyone else begin to believe in their God/desses? Did it just feel right or did you grow up with the idea???

I'm not wiccan so I don't know how they chose particular gods/godesses, and as a witch you really don't need any of them......maybe some spirits of the past....that could be helpful

[Old Witch]

:D Been a witch for 37 yrs. and love my meat.........It's up to you to decide what's right for you!!!If you feel it is wicca, druid, shamanic, or eclectic....or a path that is uniquely your own, then it is right for you!!!

[Witchy Cowgirl]

I feel my first reply was not real clear.
I respect all of nature.
I feel that we should take care of nature.
I also feel that the animals are here for a certain reason. Some are here to serve as food for us.....the food chain.....which is a part of nature.
But I don't feel animals should be mistreated.

As for my belief. I feel my God is one of many things or many things combined in one. I feel that God created nature; which he blessed with power. That power is there for us to use if we choose to. I feel my God judges folks by what is in their hearts not who they choose to worship. (See 2nd sentence of this section)



Edited last sentence cause my fingers didn't type it right the first time.

[Skye]

Originally posted by Witchy Cowgirl
But I don't feel animals should be mistreated.



Animals(or Plants) should never be mistreated.

[flar7]

I am posting a pre-emptive shhh here. I have seen these
vegetarian/carnivore threads get really heated in the past.
We arent going to do that are we guys? No one persons
choices are better than any one else's. If you dont eat meat,
good for you, if you do eat meat, good for you.

NO arguments on that aspect please. Respect.

thank you.;)

[Vala]

I'm glad people feel that way becoz I love meat and wouldn't like to stop eating it (especially as I'm allegic to nuts!!!) but I ALWAYS feel very quilty when eating it and thought that Wiccans/Pagans who are so deeply into it might think i'm a horrible person and seeing as I'm new to this religion I want to start off as respectful as possible.

[Melysande]

I'm a Pagan and I'm not a vegetarian. I prefer an omnivorous diet. (P.S. Did you know deer eat fish? It's true.)

As to whether I show less respect for animals.... I have been known to take in baby mice, moles, snakes, frogs, tadpoles, worms, birds, and rabbits because I do honor animals. I was the Fish Lady in school because I cared for all of the teachers' fish. And I'm usually the one consulted about animal problems in my whole family. I frequently try not to kill insects (like moths) in my room. I catch them and release them outside.

I believe I'm honoring my food animals by eating them. If they are dead anyway, then they deserve the honor of getting eaten by someone who will be grateful for their sacrifice, rather than sitting there rotting on a shelf. (Does this promote the industry? Yes. But those animals will still be killed for food regardless of whether I stop eating them.) If I had to kill my own animals for food, I'd be less inclined to do it, but I *would* do it to supplement my diet. I don't mind fishing to catch fish to eat, but I won't go fishing just for fun.

No worries, Flar. This is my position on the matter but it's not up for debate or discussion since no one will change my opinion and I don't expect to change anyone else's. :)

[Vala]

I never thought of it like that Melysande!!!!!

[flar7]

you be fine. no worries. these pagans are diverse, and it takes
all kinds.:D

[Melysande]

:) btw, Merry meet, and welcome, if I didn't say so earlier.

[Skye]

Originally posted by Melysande
I'm a Pagan and I'm not a vegetarian. I prefer an omnivorous diet. (P.S. Did you know deer eat fish? It's true.)

If I had to kill my own animals for food, I'd be less inclined to do it, but I *would* do it to supplement my diet. I don't mind fishing to catch fish to eat, but I won't go fishing just for fun.

No worries, Flar. This is my position on the matter but it's not up for debate or discussion since no one will change my opinion and I don't expect to change anyone else's. :)

I am more inclined to kill my own meat, that way I know it was not abused by modern industrial practices, just my opinion though.

[Vala]

**Thanks** :D :lol:

[Melysande]

**smiles at Skye** That would be my preference, too, but it's illegal to even keep a chicken or duck in my city, much less the larger livestock. (And deer are one of my sacred animals, so venison is out of the question.)

[Vala]

Can cats be someones 'sacred animal'?? becoz i love cats and thay always seem to love me and I have this patience and respect 4 cats like i hav 4 no other creater (except wolves maybe..)

[Yvonne Belisle]

Yes they can.

[Aurora_Rain]

I believe that any animal can be someone's sacred animal. Mine is probably also a cat. I own quite a few of them, and people have even told me a few times that I resemble a feline. I've also been told countless times that I sometimes act like one.

But on the topic of vegetarianism, I'm a vegetarian. I mainly started to stop eating meat because I found it discusting. i just never liked the taste. Also for me the thought of eating another animal's flesh seems kind of iffy with me too. I also have nothing against people that eat meat, its everyone's personal choice. But I'm really against people that go hunting UNLESS they're actually planning on eating the meat. I think its wrong to go hunting for sport, or even for fur. But those are just my beliefs.

[Vala]

I totaly agree with the hunting thing

[Skye]

Originally posted by Aurora_Rain
But I'm really against people that go hunting UNLESS they're actually planning on eating the meat. I think its wrong to go hunting for sport, or even for fur. But those are just my beliefs.

Against hunting for sport, and against hunting solely for fur, but if you hunt for food, I think it only right that you utilise as much of the animal you kill as you can(including fur)

[Witchy Cowgirl]

Originally posted by Skye
Animals(or Plants) should never be mistreated.

Didn't mean to leave out the plants!:D

And yes, Flar is right.
Let's agree not to get into a heated discussion over this cause what's right for one isn't right for all.;)

[Yvonne Belisle]

I also agree with the hunting thing. My son went fishing and brought back a fish I made him eat it all of my children know if they kill an animal they will eat it. I like venison and I am happy to get some from those that do go hunting but I get really angry with sport hunters or fishermen. I think if they just want to do it for the sport they need to know of a family that can and will use the meat and donate it. I think that would be better than leaving all but the rack to rot. I also know that there is a need to keep the numbers within reason on both hunters and hunted and believe that anyone who needs a semiautomatic or a full automatic weapon to hunt doesn't need to be hunting.

[StormChaser]

Originally posted by Skye


Animals(or Plants) should never be mistreated.

Hehehe
Reminds me of my mother.. the once wanna-be farmer who had a black thumb.. glad she finally chose to design gardens over growing them.. you have no idea the brutality....
water the cati drought the thyme... *shakes her head*...

What can you do?

Personally I am an omnivore, but I have my carnivorous days. I was raised wiccan, and it just happened to stick. However I am finding that I do have a close relationship with the Christian diety and mythos and some similar beliefs as *gasp everyone* the Jahova's witnesses. We are merely part of eternity. All things connect through each other, our lights touch and dance for a period of time here before we move on to another place as part of everything that was, is and shall be... I understand when I eat that I eat death, and thereby live.. and have no misgivings or sadness in doing so.

StormChaser

[Old Witch]

Ken is a hunt guide on our local govmnt installation. They have 16 hunts a year for deer and hunts year round for wild hogs.....I get a lot of free venison, but most of the hogs are to tough to get much but sausage off of them. Why, you may ask, do they hunt? To keep the deer population down........At least once a day, there is an accident, usually serious, between vehicles and deer. Hogs are just plain mean and dangerous, and can do horrible damage to the land, and to people working alone in secure locations. After 9/11, hunts were severely curtailed because of security concerns ( this is a nuclear installation)...This year more accidents have happened because of more deer, and there are worries of a population crash this winter due to disease and starvation because of our drought. No one wants to see that...So they hunt, if they do not eat what they kill, they give the animal to a hunter who didn't get a deer or some of them donate it to local church soup kitchens........Most of them get eaten.......I don't like to see the deer hunted, but I understand the reason why they are...

[xjsjaglvr]

I follow a Druid path because of my ancestry and upbringing. There is no "rule" that Pagans must/should be vegans. One can respect nature or whatever and still eat meat. We know from the historical record that the Celts raised cattle and I am sure, not because they liked them roaming around, no they ate them. For some reason there is this idea that Pagans should be peaceloving/vegan/bunny-hugger/treesitters. Those who follow Celtic based paths know that the Celts were warriors/farmers/herders/etc. just like those of us today. The reality is there are no independant pacifist/vegan/bunny-hugger nations. Those that may have been started end up on someones map as "places we conquered." Such places reside only in fantasy books, not the best place to learn about the Pagan paths. Even the Swiss, who take a neutral stand on everything have an army composed of all able-bodied men ready with weapons in their homes at all times.
Jag

[cherrywind]

I've heard this question a ton of times and it never ceases to amaze me. Just because somebody eats meat does not mean they don't respect nature/animals. Does a hawk not respect a mouse? A wolf not respect a rabbit? It's part of the natural cycle of things, and I don't see how it can be disrespectful for an animal to eat something it was meant to eat (since humans are built for vegetables and meat). Granted, there are those that eat a TON of meat, more than which the human body is built for, but hey, whatever they like, more power to them, they're the ones that are going to have health and cholestoral problems.

I do think it is the responsibility for everybody who eats meat to know where their meat is coming from, how it's processed, how the animal was raised, etc., but that's just being conscientious.

I am in no way bashing vegetarianism. I think if somebody wants to be vegetarian, good for them, I just hope they do it properly so they get all the nutrients they need (I've seen many people get sick while turning vegetarian because they make the switch suddenly or don't do their research and then their body doesn't get the nurishment it needs).

[WandererInGray]

*nods* I try to eat a lot of vegitarian dishes....but the bottom line is the smell of a really good steak makes me drool. :D

Everything in moderation. That's my motto.

[Witchy Cowgirl]

Originally posted by Skye
Against hunting for sport, and against hunting solely for fur, but if you hunt for food, I think it only right that you utilise as much of the animal you kill as you can(including fur)

Hubby hunts and we process our own meat. Hubby then tans the hides which we keep or give away.

[Shy Hawk]

Originally posted by Skye


Against hunting for sport, and against hunting solely for fur, but if you hunt for food, I think it only right that you utilise as much of the animal you kill as you can(including fur)

It is my preference to kill my own meat. If I don't have the guts or the heart to do it, then I don't think I should eat meat, because I think everyone should know where their bacon came from...yes a widdle piggie. ;):p
I also agree that every part of an animal should be used, or as much as possible anyhow.
I was at one point a lacto ovo vegetarian because I didn't agree with slaughter methods and animal conditions. At present I do eat meat in extreme moderation, but I try to buy free range.
Sometimes I buy from an Amish farm that will let you slaughter the animals yourself. I honestly believe that just for me personally, if I can't kill an animal, then I shouldn't be able to eat it.
~Hawk the Pirate

[shnen]

I dont eat red meat, nor drink milk, but those are my personal preferences, and I do not push these views on others... and its not because I am Wiccan, more because my body functions better without them. Not saying its the best for everyone, but its the best for me:)

[cherrywind]

I agree, that's the way I am. Although I just personally don't like the taste of milk (thick drinks, other than milkshakes which are more like ice cream, gross me out). If I eat more than one read meat dish a week (if I ever did... as it is I eat about one a month) I feel like there are a thousand pounds in my stomach :p.

[kblackthorne]

I dont eat red meat, nor drink milk, but those are my personal preferences, and I do not push these views on others... and its not because I am Wiccan, more because my body functions better without them. Not saying its the best for everyone, but its the best for me

Thank you for bringing this issue up, too.

I am an omnivore, who eats meat on a daily basis. Hubbie is a vegetarian who goes out of his way to make sure I get that meat, because he's seen me without it. And it's not pretty.

He'll also tell you of a college friend of his -- something like a 6th generation rancher... built like an ox. This friend tried to go vegetarian and had Hubbie help him. But it just didn't work -- his body couldn't handle it.

Then again, I've known vegetarians who were much healthier after they cut the last meat products out of their diets.

So much comes down to individual metabolism. The mistake is when we think, "What's true for me is true for everyone."



On the subject of vegetariansim in general?

"Life feeds on life. Deal with it."

It is part of the cycle: Life, death, decomposition, rebirth. Whether you eat plants, animals, or mushrooms -- something is dying so that you may live. Eventually, you will die as well. (Making the assumption you are buried and not cremated) Eventually your corpse will decompose, the lead-sealed coffin will develop a leak, and the nutrients of your body will go on to feed other life (such as worms, who move nutrients through the soil, carrying them to plant roots...). The vulture serves a purpose, as do the maggot & the dung-beetle. Their role is no less sacred than those of the rose, the carrot, the deer, or the hawk.


Now, if your ethics lead you to feel that eating animal-flesh (or that which comes from animal flesh: milk, eggs, etc) is wrong, so be it. (Or even if they lead you believe that this is merely as close to the "ideal" as you can get.) I would observe that to be honest in your practice, you should probably avoid wearing animal flesh as well (leather, pearls & shells, etc), but that is of course between you & your conscience & none of my business. It may be that you find this step less practical, and so strike a compromise. (It is hard to give up leather shoes, for example, as the plactic substitutes harm many people's feet. And canvas-shoes are not always an option.)

And, if your ethics lead you to feel that since all life has value, it is only proper to eat those foods Nature designed you to eat -- including both plant-flesh and animal-flesh -- so be it. I would observe that to be honest in your practice, you should probably consider trying to keep something like a natural balance to your diet, and remember where your food comes from. But that is, of course, between you and your conscience and really none of my business.

[StarryDancer]

According to Andy Rooney, "vegetarian" is an old Indian word for "bad hunter"...

[gunner]

if it walks, crawls, creeps, flies or swims it's lunch.
(pass the tobasco sauce please.)

[Witchy Cowgirl]

Originally posted by StarryDancer
According to Andy Rooney, "vegetarian" is an old Indian word for "bad hunter"...

:T

[shnen]

I have had people give me THAT look when I say I dont eat red meat... the look like, uh hoh.. here come the lecture... but I always clarify with them that it is lecture free...

however... on the subjects of lamb or veal.. is a different story... its just a animals rights thing when it comes down to that..

and same with the milk thing... I don't believe we need any other animals milk.. no other animal needs it, why do we? We have other ways to suppliment the vitamins in milk... but.. thats also, just my opinion... :)

[Garnet]

I tried to be a vegetarian when I was a teenager. I was so obnoxious about it, too. I still lived with my parents. I'd sit down to dinner & wait until the rest of the family had tucked into their pork roast & say, "That's just like eating your mother's arm."

I lasted about a year. What did me in was a plateful of home-made, fresh (not smoked) kielbasa.

I eat very little red meat, but that's because of stomach problems, not out of any 'poor little furry thing' concern. Those problems also keep me away from deep-fried stuff &, unfortunately, citrus fruit. (I'd sell my soul to be able to eat pineapple again).

I eat a lot of fish & poultry, though, & I'll risk stomach pain for a taste of venison now & then.