I Ching

[BlackDragon]

Hey guys

We've looked at runes, which I'm also working on, but I'm wondering if anyone knows anything about I Ching...
I'd really like to get into that.. see what it's about.

Any ideas, info or pages??

[KyGreenWitch]

Merry Meet, Friend!

I, too, am drawn to the I Ching. It has been a long time since I picked up my books on the subject.

I have two books on the subject matter. 1) I Ching: A New Interpretation for Modern Times, by Sam Reifler; and 2) The I Ching: The Book of Changes, translated by James Legge.

I really like the first book because it is easier to follow and read. I have worked with the I Ching before, but it was brief and several years ago.

I know I'm not much help, but I can tell you, it will change your life. If you are truly drawn to it, then go for it. You will indeed get an education!

Enlightenment to you -
:sunny:

[Alphyna]

I Ching is fascinating! I am just beginning my course in it. The book we use is "The I CHing Made Easy - Be Your Own Psychic Advisor Using the World's Oldest Oracle" by Roderic Sorrell and Amy Max Sorrell. It is great for beginners!
BB, Alphyna

[mol]

*bump*

I am interested in learning more about the I Ching myself...

Any good references on the web?

[Dagda Moon~Lily]

:D

http://www1.shore.net/~rdl/iching/I_Ching.txt

or

http://www.zhouyi.com/

Have fun exploring I-Ching! :D

[Rick]

I find the I Ching fascinating, but much of the translations are so 'Zen' that they just go right over my head...

[mythril]

I collected that weekly astrology series and it has a lot of information on i ching. I will try post some pages up if anyone is interested.

[Rick]

Post away! And quit staying away for such long periods at a time...

[mythril]

:), you guys missed me that much? :)

[Rick]

You're a pleasant fellow to have around. AND rather knowledgable on a wide variety of topics.

[Silver Venus]

Originally posted by mythril
I collected that weekly astrology series and it has a lot of information on i ching. I will try post some pages up if anyone is interested.

& Happy posting!! Looking forward to learning more.. because I know nada on this topic :D

[mol]

Originally posted by Rick
You're a pleasant fellow to have around. AND rather knowledgable on a wide variety of topics.

I second that..

[mythril]

:)
well thanks guys, you have really made my day.

[mythril]

Wow, its not easy to find time to scan in some pages at work.
Always beady little eyes watching my every move.

:D

but ill make a plan.
hohohohohhahahahahahah <----- evil laugh

[Rick]

I didn't want anyone mistaking what the 'f' stood for...

[mythril]

Wise decision :D

[Swanspirit]

I have been working with the I Ching for over 25 years...... I HIGHLY recommend Kerson and Rosmeary Huangs new translation ......, although the classic Wilhelm version served me well for years,,,, and I think I might just have a clew or two :>
but NO guarantees :> but I will be happy to do a reading for anyone if you would like that :>
I use coins ........ and I would like to discuss the "Book Of Changes" with anyone :>
It is a system that started from reading the cracks in turtle shells :> when heated ...... for divination purposes :> and the poetry of it is beautiful..... but then I love ancient Chinese Poetry as well .........
Love and Light
Swannie

[mythril]

wow, beatiful model u have.

[mythril]

Well here is the first page:

[mythril]

tell me i u r able to read the text, then ill post up the rest :)

[Swanspirit]

And informative in a simplistic way ,
what is the source again for this material ?
the fact that this source states that the "original" is based on a binary system is erroneus according to the Huangs. It does use it eventually but the Huangs emphasise that the origin of the Book of Changes is a "compilation of divination texts, containing folk poetry that still rhymes in modern Chinese, and historical tales that are part of the living folklore of the Chinese People ."
They explain that the concepts of Yin and Yang are more important than the "taoist invocation of a magical numerology "which he sees as tangential, because the original text had to have been compiled over millenia and tested as to its accuracy.
What I am interpreting here is that the closer we stay to the version of the I Ching that is most ancient and most true "to its original face", the more interesting our approach, and the more accurate our understnding .
It seems to me the QUALTIES OF THE ORIGINAL TWO ...... are more inportant than the number in arriving at the interpretations of the oracle .

THE LEGEND.......
In the beginning there was nothing. The vapors that were light gathered together , and so did the vapors that were heavy. The former is called Yang, the Latter is called Yin.
And thus there were two .
An early sage ( some say emporer), Fuxi, whose identity and times were lost in deep antiquity, cerated the trigrams, figures made up of three elements that are either Yin or Yang. There are eight trigrams , and they symbolise the the basic elements of a recognisable universe :
Heaven , Earth , Thunder, Water, Mountain, Wind, Fire, and Lake.
And thus there were eight .....
to be continued...........
Love and Light
Swannie

[Silver Venus]

That was a really good intro :D & I loved your picture Swan!
Cant wait to learn more.

[mythril]

Swan:

i got it from a weekly astrology series i collected a while ago.
they are repeating the series this year here in south africa so i can carry on where i left off, have to wait until issue sixty comes out though then i can carry on. :)

Silver:
It is a nice introduction isn't it.
Ive got three files from this series with all kinds of things in them like astrology, geomancy, dream interpretation and much more.

here are the next few pages:

[mythril]

:

[mythril]

wish i could send all the atachments at once but anyway.
:

[mythril]

almost done
:

[mythril]

:

[mythril]

last one
:

[Swanspirit]

an easy chart to read for reference when you are throwing the coins....

Love and Light
Swannie

[Swanspirit]

the book I have has the hexagrams in binary code :> in the appendix....... that is the I CHING
By Kerson and Rosemary Huang
start out like this
#1
_____
_____ is "Heaven the Creative" Qian
_____ the binary code is 11111
_____
_____
_____

#2
__ __
__ __ is "Earth the Receptive " Kun
__ __
__ __ the binary code is 000000
__ __
__ __

Yin is always represented by 0 Yang by 1

[Swanspirit]

in an easy to copy format for easy reference , as well
This is fun I Love the I Ching , let me scan in my coins :> the BIG ones LOL

[Swanspirit]

which are a much more humane way of divining than heating Tortoise shells and decphering the cracks.
Wouldnt it be interesting to compare these to runes, and I wonder if it has ever been done..
http://faculty.juniata.edu/atwill/or_bones.html
Ox bones and Yarrow stalks were also used ..but the coin method is as reliable and much less time consuming.
There are reportedly some 100,000 oracle bopne fragments in private collections and museums .
Love and light
Swannie

[Silver Venus]

Thanks again to both of you.. I wish I could find or have something as interesting to share with you :)
The Oracle stones look very Runic! I can even see quite a few tradional norse runes engraved on the Orcale ~ so that is very strange and curious! I did a search for ruen and iching but couldnt find any site that linked them together in much detail.

Because Im just learning the runes I cant take on too much so Im not actually going to delve into the I-ching yet.. but I will someday I know.
My friend also has a very strong Oriental calling so I will be sure to tell her about this thread and the I-ching :D

[mythril]

excellent idea
that way we can learn online .:)

[Swanspirit]

Where do we go from here ?? anyone want to do a reading??
Love and light
Swannie

[mythril]

that would be cool but how would we do reading for others online, that person needs to throw the coins don't they? :)

I lost my coins :(
Hey Swan, i forgot what the coins look like, i know that there are three of them and that one side has two dots and the other has three, or something like that ,
What do the look like again?

[Swanspirit]

It would be easy to do a reading online......
someone throws the coins and types in the results, as numerical values
you can only have four outcomes numerically
6.... 3 tails
7.....2 tails 1 heads
8.....2 heads 1 tails
9.....3 heads ......
so we could just list the numbers with the changing lines if any ,,
OR
we could type in
_____ which is hexagram 33 with changing
__o__ lines in the first and fifth positions
_____
_____ this hexagram means retreat, changing
__ __
__x__ to the next one


_____
__ __
_____
_____
__ __
_____
which is fire over fire or Hexagram 30 if I am not mistaken.... which is very auspicious

[mythril]

sounds good.

I need to find some coins first.

[Silver Venus]

But Id love a reading!! I can offer a reading with the runes or tarot in return :D

[Swanspirit]

Anytime is good :>
do you want to throw the coins ?? pennies will do just fine >:
HUGS
Swannie

[mythril]

me too, me too please :)

[Swanspirit]

Do you want to "pose the question in print"
or just think on it ???
When I do a reading I usually burn a candle and some incense .........
and meditate for a while .... until I feel the time is right to ask ......

HUGS
Swannie

[mythril]

i will think of a question tonight, while meditating, would u do a reading for me at around twelve o clock your time ?

[Swanspirit]

I will use the Wilhem Baynes AND the Rosemary and Kerson Huang :> so you can see the difference ......
HUGS
Swannie

[mythril]

thank you so much.
i wish i could do some reading for u as pay,
But i have started a tai chi and chi gung thread in healthy pagan room, i am going to give classes if u r interested.

[Swanspirit]

The energy goes out into the universe and will
be available as something else :>
HUGS
Swannie

[Swanspirit]

___ ___
___0___
_______
_______
_______
___ ___

from the Wilhemn Baynes version
Hexagram 28 or Preponderance of the Great
above TUI the Joyous lake
below SUN The Gentle Wind Wood
The Judgement
The ridgepole sags to the breaking point
It furthers one to have somewhere to go
Success
This hexagram consists of four strong inside lines and two weak ones outside .
When the Strong are on the outside and the wweak inside nothing is out of balance, nothing extraordinary in the situation . Here however the opposite is the case.
The hexagram represents a beam that is heavy and thick in the middle and , but too weak at the ends This is situation that cannot last ; it must be changed must pass or misfortune will result
The Image
The lake rises above the trees :
The mage of the the Preponderance of the Great
Thus the superior man , when he stands alone
is unconcerned
And if he has to renounce the world
he is undaunted.
You have one changing line NINE in the Second place which means ...... A dry poplar sprouts at the root, an older man takes a young wife , everything furthers....
From the point of view of politics, it means in exceptional times one does well to join with the lowly for this affords a possiblity of renewal.

from the Huang Version
Hexagram 28 Great Excess
the column is bent
it is better to go somewhere
Sign of the Sacrifice

This hexagram takes as its motif the basic method of construction used in Chinese architecture. All dwellings use poles to support a roof. As buildings become more grand and opulent , the size girth and and grandeur of the poles grow until they become massive , decorative columns. The stronger and straighter the column, the more secure and elaborate the building . Thus a bent column is a serious cause for concern , for it presages the imminent collapse of the whole
building . A column might bend under extraordinary pressure or because of inferior qualities of construction. Overreaching the limits of any person or situation may result in disaster.
The Judgement : If a situation is inherently flawed, it is better to remove yourself to avoid the imminent collapse.
The changing Line :
An unlikely alliance may produce fruit. A rejuvenation of the spirit is likely to follow.


The Hexagram changes to (WILHELM BAYNES)
Hexagram 31 INFLUENCE (WOOING)
Above TUI the joyous lake
Below KEN Keeping still , mountain

The universal mutual atttraction between the sexes is represented
The Judgement
Influence Success
Perseverance furthers
To take a maiden to wife brings good fortune
HUANG Version says.....
The hexagram is generally favorable ,particularly for relationships, and partnerships

My own comments.....
when I get this hexagram.... I know to move on from something that is already showing signs of
detioration, and go to an entire new level of interaction with another person , that is new and fresh......and lifts my spirits instead of someone or something that might drag me down .
Love and light
Swannie

[mythril]

Thanks Swan, u gave me some very valid points with that reading,
Very precise.

It fits perfectly.

[Swanspirit]

it was fun...... I would love to know what the "concern was " hint hint LOL
HUGS
Swannie

[mythril]

ok, ok , i will have to give up my secret :D

There is a problem between some people in my family.
i have tried to correct it but no luck, it just makes the situation worse,
so ur reading was very helpful.
ive tried my best but i think it is time to step back and let the situatiion unfold by itself, hopefully for the good of all.

[Swanspirit]

Many many times when I have gotten that hexagram , Preponderance of the Great.... I have gotten really frustrated , becuase I KNEW if stayed in the situaiotn it would be "too much" and fall in on me ! LOL its as if the oracle is saying to me very directly .....RUN before the roof falls in cause its going !!!!!!!!
I find the I Ching sometimes refreshingly literal in its interpretations :>
despite the apparent cryptic mists of time in which it is clouded like a high mountain in a Chinese Painting ...........
Love and Light
Swannie

[mythril]

Yea, but that is what i love about the iching, the wording and hidden messages and the wisdom of each message.

Really , i could sit the whole day and read every single hexegram over and over again, lol.

They are beautiful.

Do you have any nice chinese poetry Swan?
id love to read some. :)


ps: what time do u usually go online in the weekend?, im still wanting to chat with u on icq or that other program :).

Ooops.... haha, i gues its no use typing ps in here lol.

[Swanspirit]

CHINESE POETRY???????
O my reincarnated weeping soul...............
do you know Li Po ???
or any of the other ancient chinese poets?
Deep Sighs
Swannie

[mythril]

lol :0
oh please do share, Just one poem so i can see what it is like,
then i can find the book and purchase it.:)

[Swanspirit]

FROM THE TEMPLE AT T'IEN T'AI WATERFALLto the tune of " The Red Shoes"

Mountaintips

in array like

swords of snow.



Down sheer cliffs

streams cascade

curtains of ice.



Swinging through trees

wailing gibbons

try to grab

the tops of clouds.



The cuckoo

splatters azalea

red with its lament.



The windgod's howl

roars

from the shadows of caves.


Compared to men's souls

mountains

are not so dangerous.




~ Chiang K'e-chiu

"made new" by CH Kwock & GG Gach

makes my soul weep .......

[Flar's Freyja]

bump