What's the difference?

[PrincessKLS]

Okay let's think about this ideology of karma and spell casting. Let's say someone suffered horrible abuse throughout the years and had thought of killing or brutally hurting their abuser. What's the difference really between someone flat out killing them and still serving jailtime despite their victim mentality and casting a spell that would kill them and still receiving bad karma regardless of their fragile self-esteem?

Wouldn't this be a case of an eye for eye as far as the abused casting a spell to hurt or kill the abuser? What about the abused protection?

Sure you can say legal intervention can be advised before any killing goes on, but how many times have you heard of a child not getting placed? Or a child going into (sometimes) more abusive foster home?

[Caitlin.ann]

Okay let's think about this ideology of karma and spell casting. Let's say someone suffered horrible abuse throughout the years and had thought of killing or brutally hurting their abuser. What's the difference really between someone flat out killing them and still serving jailtime despite their victim mentality and casting a spell that would kill them and still receiving bad karma regardless of their fragile self-esteem?

Wouldn't this be a case of an eye for eye as far as the abused casting a spell to hurt or kill the abuser? What about the abused protection?

Sure you can say legal intervention can be advised before any killing goes on, but how many times have you heard of a child not getting placed? Or a child going into (sometimes) more abusive foster home?

But this lies on the assumption that your average joe is actually talented enough to kill someone with magic. I say to do so is extremely rare. If you kill someone, whatever the means after they were abusive to you then wouldn't that make you as bad as or worse than your abuser?

Are you yourself considering trying to take the life of another or are you simply curious? And you mention child abuse almost randomly. Do you know a child who is being abused and you want to try to cast a spell to kill the abuser? If so my advice is to contact the proper authorities and CPS as opposed to trying to kill someone with magic. Some things should be solved through mundane means instead of magical ones.

[PrincessKLS]

Well like I said even when you get CPS, and other legal authority involved it often turns nasty, so I'm just suggesting that when mundane things don't work and when it comes to energy spread and magic being used, really when it comes to karmaic outcomes, what's the difference between the abused attempting to kill their abuser mundanely and the abused attempting to kill them using magick?

It may not be a spell but thoughts are very powerful.

[Garm]

Okay let's think about this ideology of karma and spell casting.

No, no and no again.

This is not correct.

The meaning of "karma" has been badly overstretched.

Spell casting works because we are all part the same system, the same "one" and because of this what we put out can easily blow back on us. A lot of spell casters, usually beginners, have the experience having their spells back fire, hitting themselves as well as, or even instead of, their intended targets.

For what ever reasons this has been called "karma".

It is in no way, shape or form a question of ideology.

It is really more a matter of engineering.

The ethics of such spell casting is another issue entirely.


What's the difference really between someone flat out killing them and still serving jailtime despite their victim mentality and casting a spell that would kill them and still receiving bad karma regardless of their fragile self-esteem?


Depends on how the blow backs lands when the cards go down. Again it is a practical issue of how deal with it. The period after I launch an attack I'll go through a phase of watching oncoming traffic with all due and high vigilance. If I don't give it a chance to manifest it can't. I have got other shielding tricks but that is the simplest, most obvious and best example.



Wouldn't this be a case of an eye for eye as far as the abused casting a spell to hurt or kill the abuser? What about the abused protection?


Some times it is best to let destiny take care of it.

Some times we are to function as the agents of that destiny.

One of the great secrets of magical power is having the intuition to sense when.

I may add that problems with anger and self esteem can cripple the objectivity so badly needed to allow that intuition to work properly.

[thought_on_a_wind]

Okay let's think about this ideology of karma and spell casting. Let's say someone suffered horrible abuse throughout the years and had thought of killing or brutally hurting their abuser. What's the difference really between someone flat out killing them and still serving jailtime despite their victim mentality and casting a spell that would kill them and still receiving bad karma regardless of their fragile self-esteem?

Wouldn't this be a case of an eye for eye as far as the abused casting a spell to hurt or kill the abuser? What about the abused protection?

Sure you can say legal intervention can be advised before any killing goes on, but how many times have you heard of a child not getting placed? Or a child going into (sometimes) more abusive foster home?

I suppose the principals for killing someone metaphysically are there somewhere... I personally think it highly unlikely someone could successfully do it though, unless the victim believed in it.

As as far as hypothetically, assuming your speaking setting up a ritual at a certain time, going out and buying sacrifices or whatever your using to perpetuate revenge it is a bit different.

Since we're talking theoretical, pretend law applied to magickal transgressions. Such an act would be classified differently than would killing in a fit of rage. Pre-meditated murder comes to mind.

Instead of acting on impulse, the person is instead coldy planning the victims demise. Intentional malice'd be the name of the game, and I can't say for certain, but I'd imagine the karmic penalties to be a bit stiffer.

Of course if you're just talking zapping 'em with a lightning bolt or something of the nature (all D&D or Storm style) it'd prolly just the same as pulling a trigger.

Thing is- since we're speaking karma- karma's already roiling in a thick greazy crap storm waiting for the right moment to dump forth with all the colonic fury the universe can muster anyway... by killing the person or otherwise maligning them (aside from self-defense of course) is willingly stepping in the middle of the brown stuff... wear a raincoat...

Of course all this hinges off whether I am in fact in-sync with the real world...

[Against The Tide]

Whether you kill them in a magical (unlikely) or mundane matter, the karmic consequences will still be the same. There are no get out clauses - though your intentions (eg, action to prevent it happening again rather than actions just out of revenge will have lesser negitive consequence).

Rather than take matters into your own hands, and invite karmic retribution upon yourself, instead be the vechicle of karma here - open your mouth, tell the authorities and let the systems appointed for judgement and punishment take care of judgement and punishment.

[Xander67]

Well like I said even when you get CPS, and other legal authority involved it often turns nasty, so I'm just suggesting that when mundane things don't work and when it comes to energy spread and magic being used, really when it comes to karmaic outcomes, what's the difference between the abused attempting to kill their abuser mundanely and the abused attempting to kill them using magick?

It may not be a spell but thoughts are very powerful.

Yeah, thoughts can be very powerfull... but powerful enough to kill someone? I seriously Doubt it, unless those thoughts were actually put into physical action of some type.

The Difference between Attempting to kill someone mundanely vs using magic is simple. You are more likely to get your desired outcome mundanely and not only that, if someone were sick minded enough to actually do it, they would get free room and board in the state Penn with 3 quare meals a day, free medical coverage, all at the taxpayer's expense.

Using magic ?? Sure, easy, Roll 3d12 x 3 and cast a fireball.


Sure you can say legal intervention can be advised before any killing goes on, but how many times have you heard of a child not getting placed? Or a child going into (sometimes) more abusive foster home?

Not very likely, If a child is taken from an Abusive home, then that child becomes a ward of the state and is given psychological counseling, medical care if need be, and Potential foster parents are very thouroughly investigated and there are frequent visits to the home to ensure that the child is not being abused or neglected.

[Hunger]

It depends on if the abuse has ever left them 1/3 dead, if so killing them is a perfect application of the threefold thingy those wiccans are always on about. You'd just be the agent of the universe.

Anyway, death magics are a waste. So many poisons are undetectable, or a little research into allergies can go a long way too. Those are feasible, but death spells fall into the 'freakishly difficult to get right' category, and all of the ones I know of involve putting YOURSELF on death's doorstep then dragging them across. Besides, killing people is wrong except if whoever is in charge does it.

General curses work far better and are far more feasible. Disfiguring skin diseases, impotency, enmity spells and so on are a much more feasible way to go.

[Shanti]

Right and wrong is only an opinion!

Also not everyone believes in Karma.

I don't believe in Karma and have no reason to believe in it.

IMO, karma is impossible since morals and ethics are only opinions.

One mans good is another's bad and visa versa.

[Terra Mater]

Well, as a survivor of extreme child abuse (sexual, physical, emotional, and mental), let's talk about the karmic implications of if I had killed my father rather than escaping.

I would have prevented the numerous victims he went on to abuse (women and children) before his death. That's a lot of people that would never have been harmed by him. Isn't preventing harm a good thing, and preventing a lot of harm a great thing? Wouldn't the lives saved balance out the one life taken?

As for being able to kill someone with magic, ummmm many magical ingredients are very poisonous. If you mix a killing potion from them, and use it on the person, it is still a magical kill even if it is also a mundane one. Datura can kill you or save you, it is all in how it is used. If a person has other magical methods available to them, by all means use them, its not like anyone can convict you of strangling someone if you are across town when it happens.

I think my karma is more screwed for not killing my abuser and thus allowing him to cause more harm. I knew what he was. Spare me the sympathy lines of "it wasn't my fault", I thought about doing it often enough and regret now that I did not follow through. Sometimes there is such a thing as a justifiable homicide.

Rarely are the authorities and the systems appointed for judgement and punishment able to take care of judgement and punishment in these matters. Children and women suffer years of torment before the gain enough strength to break free. Some never break free, enslaved to ghost of their abuser long after he or she has gone.

Besides, the sentences for child abuse aren't severe enough anyway. If the abuser is a sexual or extreme physical abuser, you are saving at least one mind or one life with each victim you prevent by killing him yourself.

Imagine how much nicer people would be if, now that we are overcrowding the planet, we relaxed the rules on these sorts of killings? How about how much safer?:lol:

[Hunger]

While killing someone is very difficult for those without the evil eye, which tends to travel along familial lines, sometimes as part of a curse, killing with the evil eye is much easier than actual 'death rituals'.

If you don't possess the evil eye, you might have a precursor if your eyes have ever 'fascinated' or ensnared someone, as a fascinating eye when exposed to extreme jealousy or hatred sometimes naturally evolves into the evil eye.

I wouldn't recommend attempting to force such a change as the evil eye is as much a curse for it's bearer as its victims, many times bringing harm to their loved ones. The only methods I know of to harness the evil eye are done at birth, so it can be dangerous to develop it later in life.

Beyond this, I have to agree with Terra Mater, sometimes people deserve to die. I also agree with her point on overpopulation.

You'll find in some heavily superstitious rural areas that magical death or fatal or crippling disease are rather common, as things like the evil eye are cultivated by the more superstitious families.

Though a more fitting vengeance is to destroy them while leaving them alive, using magic to ruin their livelihood, relationships, health, but leaving them alive to suffer the loss.