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earthtide
June 5th, 2008, 01:12 AM
I thought this site was very interesting:

http://www.questionyourreality.com/

I checked out that site, and tried to watch a video about the "essence" of Kaballah. I'm not sure I completely understood what he was talking about, and he seemed to say that Kaballah is none of a large amount of terms and phrases. He seemed to imply that Kaballah is not a religion or organized belief system.

Now, I don't know much about it, but it would seem that something that many people follow in a similar way would be at least an organized belief system right?

Maybe I just need a crash course on Kaballah, but every time I try I seem to get more confused than I was before. Is there a Kaballah for Dummies or something?

Agaliha
June 5th, 2008, 01:53 AM
Okay, this is not my area of expertise at all, but I might be able to help you...maybe :lol:


He seemed to imply that Kaballah is not a religion or organized belief system.

Kabbalah is very much like Sufism is to Islam, they're very much connected to their exoteric (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/exoteric%20) faiths (where Kabbalah and Sufism are esoteric (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/esoteric) expressions of them).

You can't really separate Kabbalah from Judaism or Sufism from Islam...they're linked and often reliant and/or compliment their outward faiths (Judaism, Islam, etc).

From Wiki:

Kabbalah (Hebrew: קַבָּלָה aspect of ‎), which literally means "receiving", is the mystical Judaism. It is a set of esoteric teachings meant to define the inner meaning of both the Tanakh (Hebrew Bible) and traditional Rabbinic literature, as well as to explain the significance of Jewish religious observances.
(snip)
Kabbalah is considered, by its followers, as a necessary part of the study of Torah -- the study of Torah (the Law of God) being an inherent duty of observant Jews. Kabbalah teaches doctrines that are accepted by some Jews as the true meaning of Judaism while other Jews have rejected these doctrines as heretical and antithetical to Judaism.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kabbalah
Also, this snippet:


According to Jewish tradition, the Torah (Torah - "Law" - the first five books of the Old Testament) was created prior to the world and she advised God on such weighty matters as the creation of human kind. When Moses received the written law from God, tradition has it that he also received the oral law, which was not written down, but passed from generation to generation. At times the oral law has been referred to as "Kabbalah" - the oral tradition.

The Torah was (and is) believed to be divine, and in the same way as the Torah was accompanied by an oral tradition, so there grew up a secret oral tradition which claimed to possess an initiated understanding of the Torah, its hidden meanings, and the divine power concealed within it. This is a principle root of the Kabbalistic tradition, a belief in the divinity of the Torah, and a belief that by studying this text one can unlock the secrets of the creation.

Another aspect of Jewish religion which influenced Kabbalah was the Biblical phenomenon of prophecy. The prophet was an individual chosen by God as a mouthpiece, and there was the implication that God, far from being a transcendental abstraction, was a being whom one could approach (albeit with enormous difficulty, risk, fear and trembling). Some Kabbalists believed that they were the inheritors of practical techniques handed down from the time of the Biblical prophets, and it is not impossible or improbable that this was in fact the case.

These two threads, one derived from the study of the Torah, the other derived from practical attempts to approach God, form the roots from which the Kabbalistic tradition developed.

http://www.digital-brilliance.com/kab/faq.htm#WhatisKabbalah
Here is a page about Kabbalah from a Jewish site:
http://www.jewfaq.org/kabbalah.htm

There are various other sites about the Kabbalah...even the whole Zohar (http://www.kabbalah.com/k/index.php/p=zohar/zohar) online.

I think the Kabbalah is meant to be a compliment to Judaism, not a stand alone faith in itself, but I'm not 100% positive. There are mystics in the past that just label themselves as Sufis, but I don't know if the same idea can be applied to Judaism and Kabbalah.

I wonder, does one that follow the Kabbalah have to observe Jewish customs and things like that? I mean, most of the things about the Kabbalah rely on the Torah, so I'd assume some sort of acceptance of the outward faith would be necessary...just how much?

GEBS
June 5th, 2008, 08:36 AM
Qabalah is an important part of Thelema also.

http://www.thelemapedia.org/index.php/Qabalah



Is there a Kaballah for Dummies or something?

The easiest book to learn from, in my experience is The Chicken Qabalah by Lon Milo DuQuette (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1578632153/lonmilocom-20). It's fantastic and an easy read. DuQuette has a way of presenting information that would otherwise be dull. I recommend any of his books, but this one specifically for Qabalah.

Solya
June 5th, 2008, 02:19 PM
Is there a Kaballah for Dummies or something?

Actually, there is. Kabbalah for Dummies is written by Arthur Kurzweil and helped me get some insight into what it's all about. :) It's presented in a no-nonsense way, so I greatly enjoyed reading it. That's my two cents for the topic right now.

You will be able to find it on Amazon here. (http://www.amazon.com/Kabbalah-Dummies-Religion-Spirituality/dp/0471915904)

earthtide
June 5th, 2008, 03:01 PM
As soon as I started reading your post, Agaliha, I thought "duhhh wikipedia." :weirdsmil I'm not sure about the Judaism necessity either.. it seems logical, but in other ways it seems like it isn't that way at all. Also, "jewfaq" made me laugh a lot. :lol:

Great, thanks GreenEyes BlueSoul and Solya! I'll definitely check to see of those are at the library. :)

Shawn Blackwolf
June 6th, 2008, 03:05 PM
Hello , Earthtide...

There are differing opinions , and methods of understanding ,
and applying this system , by whatever spelling...

Yes , there is the "traditional" Hebraic Qabalah...

And it is that spelling I am using , as QBLH , or Qoph , Beth ,
Lamed , and Heh , in Hebrew , have a number value of 137 ,
and the word means both "Tradition" , and "To Recieve"...

I agree with Green Eyes Blue Soul , regarding Lon...Kurzweil
has some interesting things to say...and simple to begin...

There are variants within the Golden Dawn , Rosicrucian ,
Masonic , and even Christian mystics...and if you are ready ,
and willing , to go deeper , and approach it in a way which
shows the mathematics as code , hidden within the Torah , yet
also coded into sacred scripture of other traditions , around the
world , I recommend the work of Stan Tenen , and the Meru
Foundation...

His video , entitled "Geometric Metaphors Of Life" , is seen
through the eyes of a mathematician first , then a Hebraic
approach , via the Torah...since that was produced in the 80's
his work has progressed quite far...he believes this was the oral
tradition , later written in code , and has even found it in the
New Testament...this is not "Bible Code"...he works with a
base three system...unfolding the number patterns , in the Torah ,
as a geometric process...

Interestingly , one of Masonry's main sayings...

"God Geometrizes"

There are also those who approach the Qabalah , as a blueprint
for social interaction , psychological process , daily living , or
as magic(k)al method , or a map of consciousness...

It is said by some , there are seven Qabalahs...I have heard others
say , there is a Qabalah , for each person...( receiving )...

All dependent on their level to receive , and digest , then integrate
the information stream , activated by it's study...the methodology
of the approach , may also determine the type of information , both
unlocked in the psyche , and received...this is part of the mystery
school tradition , which does not always follow the dogmatic way ,
yet contains the deeper levels accessed by patient study...

As I have stated elsewhere...the study of the Qabalah , Kcebealla ,
or any other name...( though each , is particular )...produces , in
it's ultimate understanding...a quantum computer mercurial state
of consciousness...able to see patterns , form them , and work with
them , in ways normally not seen , by most...

It was , and is , an initiatory experience...:thumbsup:

aranarose
June 6th, 2008, 03:24 PM
Qabalah is an important part of Thelema also.

http://www.thelemapedia.org/index.php/Qabalah




The easiest book to learn from, in my experience is The Chicken Qabalah by Lon Milo DuQuette (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1578632153/lonmilocom-20). It's fantastic and an easy read. DuQuette has a way of presenting information that would otherwise be dull. I recommend any of his books, but this one specifically for Qabalah.

I love that book :)

GEBS
June 6th, 2008, 04:38 PM
I love every book I've read by him. I just got Enochian Vision Magick. :thumbsup:

aranarose
June 6th, 2008, 04:41 PM
He's so funny, and he makes everything so accessible. I want to read more of his books, just never seem to have the money to buy more, and when I do, something else catches my eye :lol:

GEBS
June 6th, 2008, 04:53 PM
I am the same way.

If you are on his mailing list you can get discounts. :D

Fr.Vega Morn
June 8th, 2008, 11:57 AM
Lon's great. Have a lot of time for him and is books.

If you want to get hold of esoteric/New Age/magic books etc cheaply than I can't recommend the following highly enough:

www.mondazzi.com (http://www.mondazzi.com)

The do hefty discounts and ridiculously cheap shipping.

They usually have a number of Lon's books to hand.

FrVM.

Xander67
June 22nd, 2008, 10:47 AM
[I][FONT=Book Antiqua][SIZE=4]Interestingly , one of Masonry's main sayings...

"God Geometrizes"


Shawn, would you happen to have a source so I can look into this? I have not heard this said in any of the lodges it sit at and I have been in the Order for ten years now.

I am not trying to say you are wrong, I would just like to know where you heard this. Geometry does play a big part in masonic teachings as does the qaballa. Sacred Geometry and Qaballa are two of the esoteric fields of study I am engaged in.

One thing about Masonry, you never learn all there is to learn about it. Ten years into it and I am barely scratching the surface.. I am always hearning new phrases and sayings..

Fr.Vega Morn
June 24th, 2008, 05:12 PM
93,


'God geometrizes' is from Plato, not from Freemasonry as far as I can gather.


93 93/93

FrVM

Shawn Blackwolf
June 24th, 2008, 08:35 PM
Well , my dear Xander...it would be my great pleasure to do so...

Yet , the universe being the great trickster it can be...please see my
Blackwolf On The Roam thread...posted today...all my books are
in storage...notes , etc...or hidden , with distant friends...

So...sorry...but , no , I did not get it from Plato...and it has been
a spoken phrase between myself , and a number of Masons , in my
past...symbolic , among the many meanings , of the Compass , the
Square , and the "G" in the Masonic pin , I wear on my hat...the
one with the diamond at the apex of the Compass...I am sure you
know that pin...

And the letter "G" , in the center...

In the "Ancient And Accepted" code , as I know it...the two "G"s
are two "Yar" runes...which also add to the value of 6...

In Obri , meaning "to gather"...in the name of the "Grand Architect" , of course...

Architectual languages...Obri and Runic...

The word , "Spacetime" , equalling 265 , as does "Architect"...

Grand gallery passage , in Great Pyramid...26.5 degrees...leading
to King's Chamber...

Line from medulla oblongata , to brow center...apprx. 26.5 degrees
as well , passing through pineal , and pituitary...

The Builder Tradition...just a few examples , out of that hat , with
that pin...for now...hope that helps , and I shall get back to you...

When my next temple , is grounded into this plane of existence...:thumbsup:

Until then...We met on the square...and part on the level...

Shawn Blackwolf...your friend...



Shawn, would you happen to have a source so I can look into this? I have not heard this said in any of the lodges it sit at and I have been in the Order for ten years now.

I am not trying to say you are wrong, I would just like to know where you heard this. Geometry does play a big part in masonic teachings as does the qaballa. Sacred Geometry and Qaballa are two of the esoteric fields of study I am engaged in.

One thing about Masonry, you never learn all there is to learn about it. Ten years into it and I am barely scratching the surface.. I am always hearning new phrases and sayings..

Xander67
June 24th, 2008, 09:35 PM
Diamond at the apex is worn by PM's right?

I am finding Sacred Geometry very enlightening as well..

Fr.Vega Morn
June 25th, 2008, 01:30 PM
Well , my dear Xander...it would be my great pleasure to do so...

Yet , the universe being the great trickster it can be...please see my
Blackwolf On The Roam thread...posted today...all my books are
in storage...notes , etc...or hidden , with distant friends...

So...sorry...but , no , I did not get it from Plato...and it has been
a spoken phrase between myself , and a number of Masons , in my
past......

93,

Thank you for the clarification. It's a phrase that you have shared with Masons of your acquaintence, which is different from being "One of Masonry's main sayings".


93 93/93

FrVM

Shawn Blackwolf
June 27th, 2008, 09:04 PM
93,

Thank you for the clarification. It's a phrase that you have shared with Masons of your acquaintence, which is different from being "One of Masonry's main sayings".


93 93/93

FrVM

Ah , yes...but my dear Fr. Vega Morn...8O

You are making quite an assumption...I did not change my
original statement...It is one of Masonry's main sayings ,
when one attains a certain grade...thus that would define
those I spoke with...:thumbsup:

Those who know the language of the Grand Architect...

As we are known...by the name Illuminated Ones...

Whether Order Illuminati , or the older , Urddeaur Eelluminnati ,
we know signs , seals , passwords , handshakes , change as one
moves through the levels of the organization...

Perhaps one day you shall know the phrase , as I know it...

As I know very well , where Crowley really got ascending flame ,
descending dove , or , for that matter 93...

Not what members of the earlier grades are taught , by any means...

Just to be very clear...:hehehehe:

From the Apex of the Trine...May the light shine forth...:thumbsup:

Xander67
July 3rd, 2008, 09:28 PM
93,


'God geometrizes' is from Plato, not from Freemasonry as far as I can gather.


93 93/93

FrVM
Plato? ah, well in that case, I am inclined to think that maybe there is a possible Masonic connection to the Phrase as Much of Plato's works were influenced by Pythagoras in Ancient Greece.


Ah , yes...but my dear Fr. Vega Morn...8O

You are making quite an assumption...I did not change my
original statement...It is one of Masonry's main sayings ,
when one attains a certain grade...thus that would define
those I spoke with...:thumbsup:

Those who know the language of the Grand Architect...

As we are known...by the name Illuminated Ones...

Whether Order Illuminati , or the older , Urddeaur Eelluminnati ,
we know signs , seals , passwords , handshakes , change as one
moves through the levels of the organization...

Perhaps one day you shall know the phrase , as I know it...

As I know very well , where Crowley really got ascending flame ,
descending dove , or , for that matter 93...

Not what members of the earlier grades are taught , by any means...

Just to be very clear...:hehehehe:

From the Apex of the Trine...May the light shine forth...:thumbsup:

Much light shineth forth in this thread. *puts on sunglasses* Must learn more..