ceremonial magick entities

[fulcanelli]

Hi. I am much more familiar with ceremonial magick entities (Golden Dawn and Franz Bardon, mostly) and was curious if those on the pagan path, following witchcraft, Wicca, etc. ever use the high magick forms rather than (or in addition to) the mythological beings? I have been reading occult literature for many years (wide variety of topics) but just recently encountered nocturnal witchcraft and felt an immediate affinity for it. The book I'm reading (Konstantinos' "Nocturnal Witchcraft") favors godforms, mythologically based.

I'm really curious about this. If you've had any experiences (as a Pagan/Wiccan, etc.) with evocations, I'd love to hear about where you found your spiritual beings. Grimoires, no doubt!

Look forward to hearing from you.

[psychostasis]

a book to look into is Summoning SPirits, also by Konstantinos, it has a big list of spirits.

[fulcanelli]

Yes, I have that one. I am in a Konstantinos mode right now, except for the Vampire and contacting the dead. His "Nocturnal Witchcraft" is what lured me in! In fact, I probably wouldn't have picked it up if I didn't have a group of my own dedicated to reporting new occult books on the market, and I saw the Konstantinos book and knew it was new (actually, I saw the "Gothic Grimoire" book, which just came out this month...but my bookstore accidentally put on the shelf two weeks early) I haven't worked with Summoning yet, though I know he favors assuming godform, much like in the Golden Dawn.

Any other comments on this?

[Raevyn]

I have Summoning as well, it is an interesting book. I haven't found much use in it beyond the basic exercises for astral travel, but then I'm not into summoning entities. If I were I think I'd find the book very useful as it has quite a list of entities to invoke. It also has quite a bit of information about tools and archetypes etc.

Now I'm considering digging it out again ;)

[talamh]

This is interesting stuff. Do you feel that the entities are complete in themselves or do they shapeshift to your summons or invocation?

i do invocation/summonses... but they are architypal.... energies come, but i always feel they are etherical archetypes which form to make themselves in a way i can best communicate with and understand at that particular moment. i recognize similar energies from one time to another.. as one would recognize how a mortal friend "feels" when s/he walk into a room.. even when you don't see him/her but know s/he is there.

Sometimes i do ask specifically but it is generally for a deity that has different names but similar characteristics in different cultures, such as Kali/Hecate.

May i ask why you summons or invoke specifically? bb talamh

[Raevyn]

Many entities mentioned in said book are very specific and exist unto themself. My guess is there are many who exist separate from any peron's thought or need, and some who are created such as "thoughtforms" - energy assembled into an entitiy or recognizable as one due to thought or need. Processes of creating or maintaining such thoughtforms are also covered.

They are called on mostly to teach various magical practices, healing, to help in workings, to be messengers, etc. etc. and are basically like spirit guides.

[fulcanelli]

You asked what or why I am evoking. Actually, I'm not. I have worked with systems of evocation in the past, and usually evocation is to learn, to learn from elemental beings about the elements, for instance.

I bought the "Summoning Spirits" Konstantinos book last year and shelved it before reading. Then a few weeks ago I picked up his newest books, "Nocturnal Witchcraft" and "Gothic Grimoire" and was immediately drawn to the material, even though I've never even experimented on that path before. I am much more familiar with Golden Dawn ritual magick than witchcraft, or working darker energy, etc. In fact, I think of myself as working in the 'light,' in the sense of what is commonly called 'good' -- but definitely NOT goodie-two-shoes good.

Konstantinos describes four what he calls 'soul types.' He asks you to visualize an equal-armed cross and on the vertical axis, label the ends good and evil, then to label the ends of the horizontal axis, dark and light. That creates four 'types': good-light, evil-light, good-dark, evil-dark. I like dark, minor-key music, movies with a horror/sci-fi edge, Goth music, etc. so it is clear to me I am drawn to dark energy at least some of the time. Still, never dark-evil. I mean, I don't care if that is what someone gravitates to, it's just no 'me.'

I liked the book and only picked it up because I recognized the name and was describing it for an online group I manage, about new occult books. I bought the book, then the newer one ("Gothic Grimoire") and I'm working with them right now. So naturally since I just bought two Konstantinos books, I got home and dusted off the one that lept on the shelf last year. And that led me into the question about evocation.

I don't think Konstantinos' books are perfect by any means, and I think he missed some important material, but on the whole, I like them a lot.

If anyone else in here has been working with dark-good energy, please share any relevant information. You might notice my posts around the group are about related topics, like the Moon, etc. Now you know why.

[Journeyman]

I have a heavy Ceremonial background (GD & Thelema), and I spent a few years trying to do some crossover work.
I ended up feeling very strongly that they are two great tastes that do not taste great together.
Simply put, I didn't feel that Aradia & Cernunnos were particularly impressed by, or comfortable with, the form of a Ceremonial Magick working.
Kind of like how I wouldn't evoke a Goetic entity using only a traditional Wiccan Circle.

I even tried modifying the LBRP by substituting Elemental rulers for the Archangels, etc. but that whole byzantine system seemed quite unnecessary for the aspects of Divinity with Whom I work.

Just my opinion; your mileage may vary.

bb,
jm

[mol]

*bump*

Interesting thoughts...

[CalliopeHellice]

I agree with JM here...not only would I NOT mix creatures/godheads/deities/etc. from various occult and magical systems, I don't even mix deities from differing cultural pantheons in ritual.

Of course, that's my own personal taste. I just don't think Irish and Greek Deities would enjoy a social hour with one another.

BB
Calliopfe

[mol]

I agree with JM here...not only would I NOT mix creatures/godheads/deities/etc. from various occult and magical systems, I don't even mix deities from differing cultural pantheons in ritual.

Of course, that's my own personal taste. I just don't think Irish and Greek Deities would enjoy a social hour with one another.

BB
Calliopfe
WHy not? What if they are all manifesting from the same energy source?

[Armitage]

Meh, I've found it's lot like people. If they get along, great. If not, watch it. Could get Uncomfortable.

[Aequitas]

Ceremonial Magic is monotheistic. Wouldn't that throw a wrench into the pagan adaptation plan?

There are no CM deitieS, there is ONE deity. And what the heck is a CM entity? Goetic & Aerial spirits? I'm confused.

93 93/93
LVX/NOX

[CalliopeHellice]

WHy not? What if they are all manifesting from the same energy source?
That is assuming that I believe in teh "all gods are one god" theory, and NOT a pantheist. ;)

[Rain Gnosis]

Ceremonial Magic is monotheistic. Wouldn't that throw a wrench into the pagan adaptation plan?

I'll ask you since you're obviously much more knowledgeable about this. CM is monotheistic - doesn't the Divine still manifest into lesser deities? Or can be expressed as deities? Are they just considered faces of that Divine, archetypes, or just connections we make up in our heads to understand part of the Divine, in CM? Do cultural deities have any place in CM, and also, is there room to "make up" deities within it?

I'm asking honestly as a newbie so I apologize if I come across as a moron to you.

Of course CalliopeHellice makes an excellent point - many believe Gods are faces of the Divine or aspects of it, but not everyone. I'm still not sure how I see it.

[Lucius]

Hi. I am much more familiar with ceremonial magick entities (Golden Dawn and Franz Bardon, mostly) and was curious if those on the pagan path, following witchcraft, Wicca, etc. ever use the high magick forms rather than (or in addition to) the mythological beings? I have been reading occult literature for many years (wide variety of topics) but just recently encountered nocturnal witchcraft and felt an immediate affinity for it. The book I'm reading (Konstantinos' "Nocturnal Witchcraft") favors godforms, mythologically based.

I'm really curious about this. If you've had any experiences (as a Pagan/Wiccan, etc.) with evocations, I'd love to hear about where you found your spiritual beings. Grimoires, no doubt!

Look forward to hearing from you.I noticed you are familiar with Franz Bardon. Maybe you or someone from here can help on this thread then???

http://www.mysticwicks.com/showthread.php?t=41334

Also, I'm very curious about this Summoning book...any more info?