Spirituality or "Spiritual Person"

[Mithrea]

I posted recently about how we define religion. One of the things we did in the "get to know you" portion of my new class was that we had to talk about our background in religious studies or personal experiences with religion. Many people in the room said things like, "I'm not a religious person, but I am a spiritual person." Hey that sounds fine to me at first. So you don't dig organized religion (which is what I later found out they meant). But how does one be spiritual without some type religion? And by "religion" I simply mean organization and boundaries. What do you do, think, feel, know that makes you a "spiritual person" as opposed to a "religious person?" Is it simply an acknowledgment of something else? Something other than your physical body? Is it something more? What does it mean to you?

[Melysande]

This concept of being spiritual but not religious always reminds me of poems by Emily Dickinson. (http://www.bartleby.com/113)

She would write poetry about a certain slant of light, or about how hope is the thing with feathers, or about her beliefs....

For me, this(http://www.jonathonart.com/cath.html) is being spiritual and not religious. :)

[Eeluna]

I believe I've been spiritual all my life, although I adamantly avoided a religious label for many years. I have always found solace and euphoria in Nature. I didn't connect it with religion in any way when I was younger, but I *NEEDED* to commune with Nature on a regular basis. Of course Nature is still a major part of my spirituality, but now I call Her Goddess.

[amberlaine]

Strictly speaking, a religious person is one who believes firmly in the tenets of her chosen religion, follows those tenets are closely as possible, and may not try too hard to bring in outside concepts/practices because her chosen religion is all that she really needs.

A spiritual person, however, doesn't necessarily have to follow any religion. One can certainly feel a deeper connection to the community, to the earth, to the universe...feel that there is something that connects and unifies all things...without following any kind of religion or without even organizing their own thoughts about Deity, cosmology, theology, etc. A spiritual person simply sees the beauty in life for what it is, feels that there is something that connects all of us, and allows the world and her community to "feed her spirit", so to speak. One does not need religion to do these things.

[Armitage]

IMO, a spiritual person doesn't have to be religious at all. They simply acknowledge something deeper and bigger than everyday life and the physical.

[Flar's Freyja]

I've always liked the phrase "Spirituality is not what you believe. It's how you live."

When I attended churches, I was religious. Now that I don't belong to any organized relgion, I am spiritual. My entire days are focused on the blessings of the Mother and Father. I appreciate and am in awe of everything from the sunshine to the spider building a web on my deck to the person who gave me hard time and messed up my day. My home is filled with constant reminders of those who guide and protect me and I honor them more than a few times a day. By being open to their guidance, I make my best effort to act in a manner befitting a child of the divine in all areas of my life. And when I fail at that, I know that they are there to pick me up and help me do it right the next time.

[Mithrea]

Originally posted by amberlaine
One can certainly feel a deeper connection to the community, to the earth, to the universe...feel that there is something that connects and unifies all things...without following any kind of religion or without even organizing their own thoughts about Deity, cosmology, theology, etc. A spiritual person simply sees the beauty in life for what it is, feels that there is something that connects all of us, and allows the world and her community to "feed her spirit", so to speak. One does not need religion to do these things.

I think you hit on the thing that escapes my comprehension. Because these things are so much a part of who I am, I can not imagine living otherwise. I understand the positve answer. It's the negative that escapes me. How does one NOT be a spiritual person?

[Danustouch]

To me, the difference between being a Religious person, or a Spiritual person, is the desire to be open to spirituality, in any form it takes. I agree with Amberlaine, in that a religious person adheres to a certain set of doctrines. But a spiritual person, feels a deep connection to the Devine, to the Earth, to their community. But it is also more than that. To me, a spiritual person, is a "seeker", or at least, a person who allows themself to be open to moments of spiritual enlightenment.

Religious people tend to believe that their religion HAS all the answers. And that what they believe, is the answer to all of their spiritual questions. A spiritual person allows themself to remain open to the possibility that they DONT have all the answers.

A Religious person, can just go through the motions of their religion, without ever really taking the time to examine them. To examine their OWN soul, to them, it's just a matter of completing steps A, B, & C to be a "Good Person". While, to the spiritual person, it's not so much what you do, what steps you complete, but how you feel inside.

To me, a spiritual person is on a quest. While a religious person, has already found all of their answers.

[Flar's Freyja]

Originally posted by Mithrea


I think you hit on the thing that escapes my comprehension. Because these things are so much a part of who I am, I can not imagine living otherwise. I understand the positve answer. It's the negative that escapes me. How does one NOT be a spiritual person?

That is a tough one, and I agree that it is very difficult to define. I agree with Danu in that someone who is NOT spiritual is someone who attends religious meetings once or twice a week and professes to believe a certain set of doctrines - but goes out and acts like everyone else outside of that setting and doesn't even attempt to walk the talk.

Or someone who has nothing spiritual to draw upon in times of need due to either their upbringing or events that have caused them to become disillusioned with the spiritual aspects of life, causing them to be apathetic or ambivalent toward such things.

[Danustouch]

Been thinking about this a bit. I can usually define things, by painting pictures in my mind, rather than by words. I tried to think of someone I would consider a "Religious" person, and then someone I would consider a "Spiritual" person.

For a religious person, I would pick Amy Grant. She was a very Christian Singer at one point, but..has had a rocky road. She's certainly not a "Perfect" Christian. And yet when you think of what defines Amy Grant, you think of her Christianity. The songs that she sang..."El Shaddhai" "My Fathers Eyes", very "Religious" and Christian.

Compare her, with John Denver. John Denver, as far as I know with the exception of a Cover of "Let it Be", never mentions a specific God, or Goddess, never mentions a specific religions doctrine, and yet his songs are extremely spiritual. He speaks of our connectedness to the Earth, finding wonder, and beauty in simple things, like firelight, mountains, wind, and water, friends, family, etc. He talks of our needing to help eachother, understand eachother, support eachother. All of these themes can be found in a multitude of various religions. So they are not specific to any one religious path, or even ANY religious path at all. In fact, many atheists could also believe in the necessity of helping eachother, and in the beauty of nature, family and friends. They, too, can be spiritual.

Spiritual means "Like the Spirit" or "Of the Spirit". A person still has a spirit, even if they are not religious. A spiritual person in my POV, would be a person who is "in tune" with the spirit inside them, and within all things.

[Mnemosyne]

This thread has really made me ponder what the words "religious" and "spiritual" really mean. To the general public, a "religious" person is someone who follows a particular religion. These religious people probably go to some type of place of worship. Perhaps some of the people in your class, Mithrea, share a similar belief. These people might not follow a specific religion; however, they do believe in higher beings. For this reason, they consider themselves "spiritual." That's my two cents.

[Mithrea]

Originally posted by Mnemosyne
To the general public, a "religious" person is someone who follows a particular religion. These religious people probably go to some type of place of worship.


In fact, many of them keep saying that practice in groups is the difference between religion and spirituality. I feel like a broken record saying, "Not to a solitary Wiccan."

[Flar's Freyja]

Originally posted by Mithrea



In fact, many of them keep saying that practice in groups is the difference between religion and spirituality. I feel like a broken record saying, "Not to a solitary Wiccan."

:huh: But doesn't that mean that a spiritual person would more be the one who practices solitary, or am I reading it wrong?

To be fair, I do know a few (very few) Christians who practice in groups but are also very spiritual outside of that setting.

I've been thinking about this one a lot too. The only person that I can think of who I would truly call non-spiritual is my ex-husband. He has absolutely no belief in anything that we would consider to be "spiritual" outside of himself. He turned to drugs, alcohol and violence in times of need.

[Mithrea]

Originally posted by Freyja
:huh: But doesn't that mean that a spiritual person would more be the one who practices solitary, or am I reading it wrong?


I know it's hard to get my meaning when you don't have the context of the conversation but inside the context, the gist and consequence of what they mean is that you can't call your faith or practice a "religion" unless it is practiced with other people. To claim to be a Solitary Wiccan has nothing to do with religion, in their eyes. I think it does. I practice as a solitary and it is very much my religion. To these few people in my class, "religion" implies organization of a group of people that may or may not have to do with spirituality. What I meant was that their viewpoint promotes the idea that Wicca is not a religion--which it is for many people. Was I any clearer, or did I just make it worse. I can't tell! I'm sorry.

[)O( ~ Khara~ )O(]

re·li·gion
Pronunciation: ri-'li-j&n
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English religioun, from Latin religion-, religio supernatural constraint, sanction, religious practice, perhaps from religare to restrain, tie back -- more at RELY
Date: 13th century
1 a : the state of a religious <a nun in her 20th year of religion> b (1) : the service and worship of God or the supernatural (2) : commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance
2 : a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices
3 archaic : scrupulous conformity : CONSCIENTIOUSNESS
4 : a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith - re·li·gion·less
adjective

spir·i·tu·al
Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French & Late Latin; Middle French spirituel, from Late Latin spiritualis, from Latin, of breathing, of wind, from spiritus
Date: 14th century
1 : of, relating to, consisting of, or affecting the spirit : INCORPOREAL <man's spiritual needs>
2 a : of or relating to sacred matters <spiritual songs> b : ecclesiastical rather than lay or temporal <spiritual authority> <lords spiritual>
3 : concerned with religious values
4 : related or joined in spirit <our spiritual home> <his spiritual heir>
5 a : of or relating to supernatural beings or phenomena b : of, relating to, or involving
spiritualism : SPIRITUALISTIC

Ok here we have the two definitions according to Websters. Note for the first, religion came along BEFORE spirituality by a century...... I think that can be blamed on the.... well we won't go there. As well the base words for religion, to tie back or restrain.... NOT GOOD, along down we see INSTITUTION, tell me why when I see that I have this horrible vision in my head of sad people shuffling around in their blue food stained bathrobes. I will have to say religion as a restrained institution is NOT something I prefer to be involved in.

Now with spiritual a whole century later.... of breathing, of wind NOW THAT IS MORE LIKE IT. Yes I can be involved in something that is like the wind, or the very breath I take. No restaints, no ties, breath, an element of life. Just like Air, Water, Fire or Earth. HOW AWESOME IS THAT??? I thank the Goddess every single day for her mercy and grace in allowing me to be what she has led me to be.

Geez sorry this was so long and probably well completely off the track this has gone, but hey it's MY 2 CENTS!!!!

Thank you my sister for starting this and letting me see!

[amberlaine]

Mithrea:

I think that both you and your classmates have valid points.

Once upon a time, before the internet, printed books and ease of long-distance communication, a person who practiced her spiritual tradition by herself, without any influence from the community she found herself in, would indeed not be practicing a religion. It is my opinion that the word religion *does* imply some kind of community, some kind of shared experience among practitioners. Otherwise, every independently spiritual person who had any kind of cohesive practice would in essence be practicing her own religion, and boy would that be confusing.

However, in modern times, community does not necessarily imply physical proximity, or even direct communication or involvement. With the advent of mass communication, and the ability of a woman on the west coast to make her personal vision os spirituality available to a guy sitting on a mountain top in the Adirondaks, community has extended far beyond what our ancestors experienced. As such, the Wiccan *community*, even for a solitary, is very real. A solitary Wiccan practicing a drawing down in Hawaii is sharing a very similar experience and theology with a solitary or even coven-bound Wiccan in New JErsey. BEtween these two, there is a common philosophy, a common relationship with the Mystery, a common practice, a common credo, and a common goal. The root word of "Community" is, in fact "Common". So I would argue that even you, as a solitary, are part of the community of Wicca, whether or not you ever practice with other folks.

[Mithrea]

Originally posted by amberlaine
So I would argue that even you, as a solitary, are part of the community of Wicca, whether or not you ever practice with other folks.

I do see your point and it's a good argument. However, in my opinion, if you take Wicca out of the equation and substitute a practice that is entirely made up by one lonely practitioner, I still believe they have the right to call how they express their beliefs, a religion. The religion part is the way it affects his or her everyday life, the way that they apply their spirituality to how they live and it does not necessarily rely on other people. I realize it's a very liberal viewpoint, but it's a valid one nonetheless.

And Khara that wasn't off track :) You have a unique view of the world as always. I find it refreshing :)

[amberlaine]

Ah. Ok. Well, I disagre with you there. :) I think the word religion does imply some kind of organization and community. I don't think one person doing her own thing constitutes a religion, per se.

[Danustouch]

I would say that I agree, in some ways with Mithrea. A person "Doing their own thing" spiritually, still has the right to call it a religion, if THEY set absolute doctrines for their own system of beliefs.

I keep coming back to the point, that to me, a Religion is a system of doctrines, dogma's, or traditions. While Spirituality is something which transends doctrines, dogma's and traditions. Religious people, can also be spiritual. And Spiritual people, can still be religious. I would argue that Religion is the PUBLIC face that you show the world, the lable that you go bye, the tenants which you believe in, and vocalize to other people, while spirituality, is more of the "PRIVATE" face of what you believe. The personal struggle, quest, examinations, which you wouldn't necessarily express verbally to others. Spirituality is who you are when you are alone. While Religion is what you are TO and WITH other people. A solitary wiccan still interacts with others, and explains their beliefs to others, describes their practices, and their traditions to others in some way shape or form. The spirituality of a solitary wiccan, may be something entirely independent of their "Religion" as expressed to others. The private relationship between themselves, nature, divinity, the human race. The questions they ask in their souls, the struggles that they have, the doubts, the affirmations, etc.

[Calixto]

I'd have to disagree, Religion, as the word, is based on being tied back ... to the Divine.

Ritual and worship is one way of tying oneself back to the Divine.

Dogma and the like has little to do with it, except to define the practices that make you bind back to the Divine.

Spirituality, in the sense of being aware of and respecting a higher power (the Divine) is thus, in my mind the same thing as religion, just perhaps more free form.

But in essence, I don't see any contradiction or disjunction between the two terms.

Cal

[Flar's Freyja]

Originally posted by Mithrea


I know it's hard to get my meaning when you don't have the context of the conversation but inside the context, the gist and consequence of what they mean is that you can't call your faith or practice a "religion" unless it is practiced with other people. To claim to be a Solitary Wiccan has nothing to do with religion, in their eyes. I think it does. I practice as a solitary and it is very much my religion. To these few people in my class, "religion" implies organization of a group of people that may or may not have to do with spirituality. What I meant was that their viewpoint promotes the idea that Wicca is not a religion--which it is for many people. Was I any clearer, or did I just make it worse. I can't tell! I'm sorry.

No, not at all. I thought that was what you meant.