What to do if your Patron is really obscure?

[Cinnamon1991]

Hi everyone,
Over two years I tried to create a relationship with several deities I felt drawn to, but none of them seemed to like me as a follower (I was trying really hard to search for a Patron deity).
Now I've got reasons to think I found my Patron deity (which was quite unexpected because I didn't expect that quite an obscure goddess would be my Patron.) but as the title of this thread says, my problem is: She's really obscure.
There are no myths of Her that I know of, it's not even really clear what kind of goddess She is.

I'm talking about the deity of my homeland, Nehalennia.

So, how can I begin with my research?

[Xander67]

This should help you off to a good start,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nehalennia

also, just type her name into google search and there are thousands of pages of information.

there are a few variations of how her name is spelled.

[Cinnamon1991]

Thanks, I do have the basic information. I googled every name variation I could find, I searched for threads on Her here at MW, but I everywhere I look, I only find the basics.

[patch]

How do you feel about UPG?
How much do you know about how deities in your homeland were generally honoured?

These questions are good starting points. ^_^

[Xander67]

well then perhaps you might actually need to widen your search a bit, maybe a road trip is in order, there is a temple that was just rebuilt a few years ago, perhaps someone there may be able to guide you further,


Nehalennia, a deity of German-Celtic origine that was worshipped before and during the Roman occupation of this area in the south-west of Holland.
At Domburg (1647) and Colijnsplaat (1970) two Gallo-Roman temples where found in the sea, and Jules presented this cd and his cd "Nehalennia Suite" at the official opening of the reconstruction of the Nehalennia temple in Colijnsplaat. (13 august 2005)

[Cinnamon1991]

How do you feel about UPG?
How much do you know about how deities in your homeland were generally honoured?

These questions are good starting points. ^_^

Hmm these are good questions. I'm interested in UPG, so if anyone has any experience with Nehalennia, please share :)

And I don't know a lot of how deities were honoured in my homeland. In the Netherlands, there were Frisians in the North, Saxons in the East and Celts in the South, and at one point, the Romans were also here.
(If the Romans weren't here, we probably would've know nothing about Nehalennia, as the temples, altars+inscriptions and statues are all made during the Roman period.)
She was honoured by the Celts, the Romans and I'm pretty sure the Saxons also honoured Her. I don't know for sure whether the Frisians did. There was never *one* way, all those darn tribes.

Oh nevermind my babbling btw, I'm answering the questions out loud:smileroll




well then perhaps you might actually need to widen your search a bit, maybe a road trip is in order, there is a temple that was just rebuilt a few years ago, perhaps someone there may be able to guide you further,

Oh I forgot that there is a reconstruction. I might do visit the temple, but it's rarely opened.

[Corva]

Hi everyone,
Over two years I tried to create a relationship with several deities I felt drawn to, but none of them seemed to like me as a follower (I was trying really hard to search for a Patron deity).
Now I've got reasons to think I found my Patron deity (which was quite unexpected because I didn't expect that quite an obscure goddess would be my Patron.) but as the title of this thread says, my problem is: She's really obscure.
There are no myths of Her that I know of, it's not even really clear what kind of goddess She is.

I'm talking about the deity of my homeland, Nehalennia.

So, how can I begin with my research?


I understand exactly how you feel. Nehalennia came to me when I had spent years trying to connect with other deities. The only thing I knew about Her was that sailors honored Her, so, being a person who generally has no affinity for the ocean, I almost rejected the invitation. I am glad I did not.

I think that it is a good thing there are no myths and not much research about Her. I have had to go directly to the source to find out about Her. Through meditation, prayer and ritual, I am coming to know Her.

I have had to let go of my usual tendencies to research something to death and only do what has been done in the past. I have had to come up with my own ways of honoring Her. It has not been easy because I have had to trust myself, and I am grateful to Her because I don't think I would be where I am today without Her.

My advice to you would be to talk with Her. Develop your own rituals, devotions, and prayers; She'll let you know what She likes and doesn't like.

[patch]

so, being a person who generally has no affinity for the ocean, I almost rejected the invitation. I am glad I did not.


Off topic, but I was the same with poseidon. Heck, I barely even LIKED the ocean before.

[Little Billy]

Hi everyone,
Over two years I tried to create a relationship with several deities I felt drawn to, but none of them seemed to like me as a follower (I was trying really hard to search for a Patron deity).
Now I've got reasons to think I found my Patron deity (which was quite unexpected because I didn't expect that quite an obscure goddess would be my Patron.) but as the title of this thread says, my problem is: She's really obscure.
There are no myths of Her that I know of, it's not even really clear what kind of goddess She is.

I'm talking about the deity of my homeland, Nehalennia.

So, how can I begin with my research?

I do not mean to be offensive, but I must ask: If you don't even know what kind of Goddess she is, why are you worshipping her? I mean, she could be the Goddess of Stomping on Kittens or something.

Look before you leap is as true in belief as it is in everyday life.

[Cinnamon1991]

I do not mean to be offensive, but I must ask: If you don't even know what kind of Goddess she is, why are you worshipping her? I mean, she could be the Goddess of Stomping on Kittens or something.

Look before you leap is as true in belief as it is in everyday life.

It's not like I don't know anything about Her. I've done a lot of research, in English and Dutch so I have most information that's out there. I think you may have misunderstood the reason of this thread.

[Renny]

And I don't know a lot of how deities were honoured in my homeland. In the Netherlands, there were Frisians in the North, Saxons in the East and Celts in the South, and at one point, the Romans were also here.
(If the Romans weren't here, we probably would've know nothing about Nehalennia, as the temples, altars+inscriptions and statues are all made during the Roman period.)
She was honoured by the Celts, the Romans and I'm pretty sure the Saxons also honoured Her. I don't know for sure whether the Frisians did. There was never *one* way, all those darn tribes.


I have heard the name mentioned passingly before in one of my norse mythology books somewhere, I'll see if I can find it

My ancestors are from Frisia. The god of the Frisians is Forseti. As far as I know they followed the norse gods as well as him.

[aluokaloo]

Nehelennia isn't that obscure! I do believe there are quite a few followers here on MW and furthermore the best way to know a deity is to sometimes just outright ask them and spend time with them, it's why my patron Fenris and I have such a strong relationship with each other and myths are a great way to get to know them.


try automatic writing, prayer and meditations when you talk to her and ask her about herself, kinda like you'd get to known another person yanno? best of luck cinnamon!

[dragoncrone]

Keep digging. Knowledge will pop up when you least expect it.

Two months ago, I was doing some canvassing - telephoning bookstores to arrange speaking dates - and got a wrong number; I ended up talking to a Vietnamese college student who sent me all kinds of Viet dragon lore!!!

Never give up!

[Nitefalle]

At this point, UPG may be the best way to go. That happened to me with a very obscure Gallic goddess named Belisana. I did what research I could, found only two or three historic mentions of her, none of which really helped me. But I have meditated with her and I access her in the only way I can and it seems to work. If you can't find any references as to how she was worshipped historically, just ask her. Make an offering you feel would be in line with what you DO know of her and see if it is accepted or rejected.


Let us know how it goes!

[Caitlin.ann]

Forgive me but what is UPG?

[Heart of All]

Unverifiable Personal Gnosis.

It's generally a recon phrase to mean something that you believe that isn't in any lore.

[Cinnamon1991]

Thanks you all.

Nitefall, you´re right about UPG. For now, I´ll just have to experiment and if She doesn´t like something I´m pretty sure She´ll let me know. In the future I´d like to honor Her in a traditional way.. There´s a lot to choose from: Germanic, Gallic, Roman, Gallo-Roman.

I already have *some* UPG but it´s quit limited. I wanted to offer some Lavender incense because it seemed logical to me (don´t know why), but my instinct told me to offer a stick of incense from the package next to it, which was Roses and Violets.

[Brynhild Tudor]

I know what you mean about obscure deities. I had a UPG experience with one of my patrons, Morgan le Fay, who I met in a dream, and I discovered the lore was wrong, and the only part they got right was of her being a healer from Avalon, and that she was a daughter of LeFay, the Welsh sea goddess.

But all the people I've met, and the things I've read about her, say she's the wicked one from Arthurian legeld who also heals him. Kinda like Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde.

Even people on MW call her a factional character, and nobody has any communication with her. Nobody I've come in contact with, anyway.

She's not interested in worship, and neither is Gwydion. Nobody I know communicates with him either, except me.

So I know how the OP feels about obscure deities, and how lonely it can be.

You know how I picked my patrons. From books. I see a name on the page and something clicks, because I like the look of how it's spelled. Then I do research. So whoever asked the OP why would they worship a deity if they didn't know who that deity was, I must disagree with. Sometimes you see a name, click with it and like it, and that's how you decide on patronage. Then you do research, and you just feel whether parts of the lore are right or not.

Speaking of lore, I was wondering: do you think it gets boring for the deities, having to be in the same places or doing the same things the lore says they have to? I mean, Gwydion's got one major story about him. But it gets old after awhile, and you have to wonder. Times have changed, and what else do deities occupy themselves with, afterLleu has grown up. After all this time, maybe Gwydion and Arianrhod made up. Who knows? I'm just saying, if the deities constantly live in the lore and are bound by it, it's gotta get boring for them. Don't they ever do anything else? It's like the old saying "God created the world but what has he done since?" All people do is constantly rehash the Old/New Testaments, and this is supposed to be how the Christian god helps his followers in modern life? It's gotta get old. Maybe the mythologies of our gods are no different.

Brynhild

[Mars Rising]

You may have to just get to know the goddess herself, let her teach you about her.

I have a patron who was really popular in his original culture, but not much survives on him, besides that he is the "god of potters" who sculpts humans out of clay. I was frustrated by the lack of information on him, and that I've found no one who worships him but me, but in the end I think it's a good thing because I can get to know him by myself, without letting myths or what people say on the Internet subconsciously color my perception. I've learned a lot about him, such as he is the god of many other things besides pottery.