predators

[Yvonne Belisle]

Paganism in general is much less stringent in it's form than any other religions I have seen. The closest you will find to large numbers of people believing the same thing is within covens or named groups. There is a great deal of freedom in following the threefold law and the rede. There is also a great deal of responsibility. In Christianity you have a set of laws to follow rules and guidelines on how to live your life it's called the Bible. Pagans don't have that we have to regulate our own behavior and sometimes a bad apple slips in and does something that is wrong. Perhaps that person is just sick or they don't understand but they make people who don't know any better make generalized assumptions. Many religions including Christians, Jews and Pagans have had sacrifices in the past. That is not something people of today like to be reminded of. It does however point out that a lot of things from the past can haunt a group of people in the form of predators.
This site is very good we police ourselves well and Mol keeps on top of us all as well but there are sites out there where questions like this one make some sicko pay attention. I am bringing this up here because we have a lot of people that will look at this thread that are new to this way of life and I want them to see this. DO NOT EVER STOP ASKING QUESTIONS! It is the worst thing you can do, but think about all of the answers you are given. This group of people is one of the most giving, warm, and loving groups of people I have ever found and one of the best for asking questions. I think that the same freedom we take for granted in our regius choice can be used in both good ways and bad ones. There are sick people out there and I would like to say that I am very glad that if any of them have found our boards that they have realized that there are no victims for them here and they have gone away. I know that there have been concerns from time to time because we get some young seekers here and sometimes we may be rough on them but it is because we have seen danger out there and we are scared For them. SAHM mentioned the seekers bill of rights please read it print it out give it to people you think may need it. Post it on other message boards you could save a life.
Try to remember that this country once had a dream of freedom. Freedom to practice what you believed in, freedom to be something greater than what you once were the freedom to stand tall and say "Look at me I am someone". As a nation we tend to forget it as individuals facing persecution because our faith is in the minority and not popular with our government we are remembering. Our beliefs though different from one another are held together by love, a love of life. Not all of us follow the rede not all of us follow the three fold law but all of us love the deities or diety we have chosen and are drawn to one another. Our differences draw us together as much as the things that are alike. When we hear someone asking for information we often remember when we were and often that was just a few minutes before. We are all seekers in life or we would not be here. Many of us were raised in other religions but we questioned until we found ourselves on our paths then we learned that there are always more questions.
As you seek remember you are loved. Remember that answers aren't always easy. Remember to question anything that doesn't feel right! It doesn't matter who it comes from! If you are ever made to feel uncomfortable go to someone and tell them. The truth is often in your heart and deep within you will hear it's song. Questions just fine tune your hearing so ask them all! There are a lot of people in this world who hunt down predators so if you find one let someone know and if you aren't sure if someone is ask questions until you know one way or the other.

I am climbing off my soap box now. I have said more in this post than I ever have before but I have read some posts that moved me to do so. Please forgive my longwinded post but it was said with the best of intents.

[Lavender]

Well said, Yvonne! :) Thank you!

*CLAP! CLAP! CLAP! *

[Yvonne Belisle]

Thank you I was afraid I had overstepped my bounds.

[bluecat]

GOOD STUFF, MAYNARD!

Blue :cool:

More Malt-O-Meal, Please!

[Mariposa De La Luna]

Originally posted by Wildchild
Well said, Yvonne! :) Thank you!

*CLAP! CLAP! CLAP! *

I second that! Well said indeed! :cool: :D :heartthro

[Elaine]

I completely agree....no use in repeating stuff cuz you said it all....:D I think that everyone that comes on here should read that!!! :p

[Angel]

I forgive yuor long winded post darling, what you said was worth it!!!

[bluecat]

Originally posted by Elaine
I completely agree....no use in repeating stuff cuz you said it all....:D I think that everyone that comes on here should read that!!! :p

I have "stuck" this thread to the top. It won't go down the list.

Blue :cool:

[Faery-Wings]

That was perfectly said. I think everyone, regardless of where they are on their Path, should read that. That you so much for taking the time and the caring to write that down for all of us.

BB!

Chris
:sunny:

[Lilu]

Nicely said Yvonne!
Bravo :-)

BB
Lilu

[moonmagick4]

Well,I have already told you how I feel about it!!!Very well said!

[Tigerwallah]

You go Yvonne. Great post. I definately second that!!!!

"It isn't the answer that matters. It's the question."

[Celtic_Angel]

You go Eve!!!!! :D I always ask questions, regardless of the answers! Of course I grew up being told to do that!!! My dad is great! One thing I really admire in the Jews is that the feel the best way to honor someone you respect, for them God, is to argue with them and to ask questions. How else with you ever find the answer? Anyways, keep up the boosters Yvonne. :D

[adrian]

I can't say anything except that was one of the greatest things i have ever heard here.
Thank you.

[Yvonne Belisle]

I feel warm and squishy now.:D Thank-you Adrian

[eaglewolf]

If there were a teary eyed smiley, I would use it now...

...but there isn't.

Great stuff Yvonne!

~ew

[adrian]

Give credit where credit is due...this is truth, it's that good.

[Yvonne Belisle]

I almost didn't write it. I din't feel it was my place then I realized that as a member of this community I needed to speak out. I have 4 kids and I protect them as much as I can online. They aren't even to use our computer unless my husband or I are there watching. I've had it pointed out that I worry too much and that short of holding some of the kids hands that are out there I can't save them all. The person who reminded me of that was right but if what I said opens even one pair of eyes to the dangers out there I'll be happy. I'm really glad that so many people like what I wrote. I cried when I realized that it was placed in two places so that the people that needed it the most would see it I cried. Thank-you it has helped me feel more secure in my feelings.

[adrian]

You have a passion and that is what gives you strength, thank you for shareing it with us. Sometimes we don't say what's on our minds and in our hearts and we pass the chance to share something that may be important, something that may help save a life or just give a nudge in the right direction.
This is one of those things, again i thank you for shareing.
Em Hotep

[silvermoon]

;) Well said. I couldn't have said it any better or with as much conviction and PASSION. Totally Agree. ;)

:heartthro :heartthro :heartthro :heartthro :heartthro :heartthro :heartthro :heartthro :heartthro

:D :D silvermoon :D :D

[Dria El]

From one mother to another...

Bravo!!!

I couldn't have said it better.

Dria El

[Semele]

Very nice Dear!!!!

Although I must admit that at times I skim over longer posts so I can get to others, I read yours and was truly moved.

As mothers we can never worry too much or protect our children too much. True we can't physically protect them their whole lives, but until they are mature enough to do so themselves it is our duty and obligation. One we should embrass from that first terrifying moment we realise how very overwhelming parenthood is.

It hit Mol on the way home from the hospital. He was shaking and eyeballing every car within sight for fear of wrecking. And he is still very protective.....maybe not such a cautious driver...esp in his new toy. He is fixing up an old Firebird. So all you mothers out there be sure to send some extra energy his way. You know how excited these boys get with their toys.

Where did I go??? Lost my train of thought again!!!:confused:

Anyway I loved your post. Most profound statement I have read in a long time. Also after making a comment about long posts I produce this!!! Oh well!! What can I say...you inspire me!

Semele

[widukind]

Thanks, Yvonne!

I, too, feel every new community member should read this. It's all very beautifully said... and I don't mind long posts, as long as they have as much content as yours.

BB,

Widukind

[Walach]

Walach <----New Member
Walach <----Looked at your post Yvonne and is now going to play it safe! Thankyou.

[Sunday's Child]

I too, am a new member.. I'm with the crowd on this one.. Great stuff! Thank you!

[Rævyn Cigány]

Originally posted by Dria El
From one mother to another...

Bravo!!!

I couldn't have said it better.

Dria El



Me too, and me neither!!!!! Kudos to you!!!!!!!!!

:heartthro

Rae )0(

[Draeconin]

I very much like what you have to say here, but if I may clarify a couple of points? I realize you're probably already aware of them, but some readers may not be.

Originally posted by Yvonne Thomas
Paganism in general is much less stringent in it's form than any other religions I have seen.

Paganism is an umbrella term that covers a wide range of non-affiliated religions, some of which have practices and beliefs at odds with others. All, however, are Earth religions.

There is a great deal of freedom in following the threefold law and the rede.

Both of which belong solely to Wicca, which is only one of the pagan religions, though a few individuals of other pagan religions may adopt them. The others do not have and do not follow those credes. This is not to say that "anything goes" with them, but of those I know anything about, the morality is not governed from without in that manner.

Small points, perhaps, but clarity is important to me. :crazy:

VERY good post, though. :)

[Mairwen]

Originally posted by Draeconin
IPaganism is [snippage] ... All, however, are Earth religions.

This is where I get pushy. Not all Pagan faiths are Earth-centered, no matter how you cut them.


VERY good post, though. :)

One of my more favorite threads on the boards. :D

[Draeconin]

Originally posted by Mairwen
[B]

This is where I get pushy. Not all Pagan faiths are Earth-centered, no matter how you cut them.


Then we are interpreting "pagan" differently. And I won't change *my* mind, either. :)

[mysticwicks]

This is the first warning keep it on topic or start a new thread.

[Mooncrow]

Very well put!!!!

[willowfairy]

i think that is the first long post i have actually read. very good! it would have taken me a very long time to write something like that, and it still would not be as touching as yours is. :D :D :D

[lady_dragonfire]

Thank you for your post....a must read for all members.

:RuNew: to this site

BB
lady dragonfire )0(

[Mythrel]

I'm sitting here at 6:20 in the morning reading some posts before I go to work and I am floating around not getting into anything too in depth and bam this thing crosses my path!!! Thanks for waking me up this morning!! It was a very well written and though provoking post!! I agree with everyone here and say: GREAT JOB!! This was a great post that again, I hope more people read....

Mythrel

[Mythrel]

whoops typo...

I meant to say THOUGHT PROVOKING not though provoking...

again....well said !!!

[Silver Venus]

Yvonne thank you sooo much for writting that it has moved me and is such a great help to this community!

I don't come in here (New Pagans) much because of time restraints, and today I thought I'd take a peak :) ~ now I know why!!
This has been an issue for me for some time now as I met and started working with someone who I now think is very suspicious. I have thought this way for a few months and have been making up excuses and avoiding contact but 'they' are still in the background and Im too nice to say 'look stay out of my life now..' but I have realised this last week ~ That thats exactly what I have to do!!

I just thought Id share my experince and say you have given me the guts to speak out and act!!

[mato]

Ok how is one to go about checking the 'credintials' of a teacher? The fluid nature of covens has a dissadvantage here to the newbe, and if the elders of that coven have changed their names or moved to another country... Or if the coven has changed names... And is it appropriate to do a background check, if no coven, coven elders (or members for that matter) are to be found?
I am using wiccan terms but for all forms that a teacher might have gotten his/her training from, including temple, church, lodge, and all others (I am still a newbe so forgive my lack of knowledge in orginisation's names/titles :p)

[Jenett]

[pardon the slight delurk...]

One thing that you can do is ask around the local community about the person in question. One of the things that made me comfortable with my current group (Alexandrian derivative training coven) is that when I was looking around for groups, I had several people from *other* and not-associated groups say "Hey, we might not be a great fit for you, but you might want to talk to X" about the same person. (now my HPS)

Another thing is to look at whether someone's active in the local groups - did they participate in a local Pagan Pride gathering, for example? Do they participate in any umbrella groups? (Not all of them, locally, maybe, but some... we've still got only 24 hours in a day).

What are *their* teachers like, if there are any local? Can you go to a class or lecture with any of them? What do you think of what they say? (I've been to two classes taught by my HPS's teacher, and that's reassured me that this is a good place to be.) Are there any of their students (current or former) around? Can you talk to them?

What's the history of the group? Many groups aren't very stable (particularly teaching groups, from what I've seen) and that may or may not be a sign of a problem. However, I'd consider it a sign of a problem if someone badmouthed former members, or wasn't able to get along reasonably cordially with them (at least after a little time to get over the breakup). I also consider finding out the *reasons* to be important, as much as might be shared.

There *have* been several shakeups in the group I'm in, both before I joined, and since. However, the shakeups have been handled quite amicably, I've never heard my HPS badmouthing any of the people involved (thinking they're a bit silly, perhaps, but that's about as far as it's gotten.) and other than a bit of scrambling about how to handle rituals with several less 2nd and 1st degree people to take certain roles, things have gone fairly smoothly.

Finally, I look at what someone's approach to teaching is - do their initial classes focus on things I think are important? Do they have a fairly reasonable lead-in time before asking for any kind of commitment? The second Seeker class for the group I went to was ethics and etiquette. That told me that these things were important to the group.

Do they give you time to get to know them, and the group? Before I could become a Dedicant, I had to go through a 5 class Seeker class, do some specific assignments, ask specifically to become a Dedicant, and then go through a quite thorough interview. I was also welcome to join them at dinner after ritual rehearsals (which Seekers were welcome at) to hang out and chat. By the end of the process, I felt like I knew them reasonably well - and certainly well enough to feel comfortable making a basic commitment. I would have been seriously concerned about someone who wanted a commitment right away, or who wanted me to make a decision without information over a span of time.)

How do they respond to questions or to your prior opinions or experiences? Are those things respected, or are you constantly told you're wrong/misinformed/etc? (Being wrong sometimes is one thing, but how is it handled?)

Finally - trust your instincts, but also give them time to work. For most people (even if you pick up stuff about people fairly quickly) this does take a little time. I like to observe how someone deals with retail or waitstaff as part of learning about them as a person - it's often a good sign of how they will treat others. I watched how they responded to stuff like phone calls, or other people not in the group. Things like that.

[lucidfire]

Very well put,
I hadn't thought of it that way before,
much appreciated :D

[Silver Venus]

Yeah thanks so much Jenett! That has helped so much :D

[shnen]

*wiping tears from my eyes*

This post has made me feel so lucky to be part of such an amazing community! Thank you all... It's nice to be home!

[Witchy Cowgirl]

Yvonne,
Thank you for your post---it is really appreciated:hearteyes

[materra]

Very, very nice Yvonne. I am a mother and a grandmother and I too have worried about them. I am glad to know this is a community of caring people who by and large are decent and honest in their intent. Thank you to Jenett all for adding the extra support this place needs to be a safe and informed forum to the pagan community. This makes me very happy.

[Draven31]

I really wish I had found a place like this when I first started ..I can remember the first "witch" I ever met .He was dating a friend of mine and I was pregnet (sp) with my daughter..He wanted me to do a sky clad circle with him and some others when I was almost 9 months along...(Gives me the creeps even now just thinking about it.) Anyway he had alot of wierd ideas about withcraft in general he wanted to start a coven and "train" girls on how to cast spells and such.Now I was living in a town in the texas panhandle and I really didnt have to many places to get this kind of info..Luckly I found others that showed me the right way to do things and never had to deal with him again .But I lost a friend over it ..thats why now after all these years i'm a solitary practitioner.. When my daughter gets a little older I'll send her here so she can talk to others without me have to worry so much about the sickos...
Thanks again...

[Run_With_Wolvez]

As the others have said.. very well put! I'm glad I read this. :)

[Kalosi]

I've read a lot of good info in this thread. I come to this site because it is one of the few places where I can talk to others about my beliefs. It's rather appropriate that I am here right now, because in a few days I and my boyfriend are meeting with a gentleman who is trying to form a coven in our small community. Up until I saw his address on another site, I thought I had met what few Pagans and Wiccans there were in this area. I'm really nervous, which is why I'm bringing my boyfriend and we are meeting in a public place. I'm nervous, but I would also like to find others, face-to-face, to talk to about my beliefs. If anyone reads this before my meeting, please send a bit of positive energy!

[Flar's Freyja]

Wow, I just found this. Very well said indeed, and timely. A friend of mine recently had a very difficult and frightening experience with an individual who has a history of using message boards for their own agenda. This thread is a must-read for everyone.

[shem]

Thank you so much for that post!!! I am new to paganisim and this site. I had an overwhelming sence of peace as I read what you had to say. Thank you!!

[Yvonne Belisle]

It really makes me feel good to know that my words have reached another person and that maybe because of something I said that perhaps they are just a little safer than they were before. :)

[Squidbill]

Hello I'm Squid, I'm a new guy here and I was invited to post my a friend of mine. Nice to met you guys.
Cheers

[rootwork13]

:boing: Nice to see you here! I believe you'll find MW to be a good experience....perhaps a bit less pastoral than the folks over at the Ardmorite forum, but certainly just as lively!
:bubbles:

[Squidbill]

Thanks for the welcome aboard. So far the forum has been very interesting.

[Squiddy]

Are we related? ;)

~Squiddy

[Squidbill]

Originally posted by Squiddy
Are we related? ;)

~Squiddy
Architeuthis Dux, how about you?

[Squiddy]

Well, we could be very distantly related... ;)

From my favorite show, "The Simpsons:"

Captain McCallister: "Arr, squiddy, I got nothin' against ya. I just heard there was gold in yer belly. Ha ha harr, harr harr."

And there's the Springfield Squidport... (I know I'd like to shop there!)

And in one episode Bart orders the squid platter with extra tentacles...

[Flaire-FireStar]

Very well said. :thumbsup: Like many others have said ~ it's a definite MUST READ thread. :)

Jennett: Thanks for the bit of info on covens. :)

[Squidbill]

What about Squidward on Sponge Bob Square Pants?

My two favorite squids are the Humboldt and Giant Squid (dux).

[Squiddy]

Sounds like a show I should be watching!!!:cool:

[JACKIE]

hello. i'm pretty new too. i haven't had a lot of time to be on here because i had to deal with someone following from board to board. everything is cool now i think so i will get to be on here more.

[Methanespirit]

Yvonne, you mentioned that the Christian RELIGION has a set of life rules and regulations which are found in the Bible. This fact I will not argue about because it is true. However, I'd say that 95% of all Christians, whether nominally or true, do not understand that the gospel of Christ Jesus is not about rules and regulations in order to conduct our life. That the death and resurrection of Christ Jesus (in new body) set up for all who believe in Him to have their transgressions (past, present , and future) against God forgiven, thus imputing righteousness on , them in God's evaluation -as the gospel message goes. Yet, this very death and resurrection of Jesus, also did away with a believer's necessity to observe the Law (Exodus, ch. 20). This is the reason it is said that Jesus fulfilled the requirements of the Law in each believers life. This is because the observance of the Mosaic Law, or as the apostle Paul states in the Galatian epistle, the observance of ANY ( religious) law, was never meant to make one one righteous before God, (Galatians 2:16). (Hebrews 10:9-15). It is over this very point that 95% of all churches of organized religion fail the gospel message and teach that one must work in order to earn "brownie points" with God in order to gain the "heavenly home", even though they say that we are "saved by grace" Now, all TRUE believer's in Christ Jesus are free from having to watch themselves in order to consciously regulate what they do. It is the indwelling Holy Spirit (John 3:5-8) of God in each true believer that guides the individual (Romans 8:1-11).

I know that most Christians are "religious reactionarys" when it comes to encountering those who do not believe as they do, especially their own kind. (Galatians 4:28-31). Because of their idea that they initiate all sorts of activities in the "name of God". They have either forgotten, or have never been taught that all true divine initiative must begin with Deity, but not man. But it is unfortuante for many of them, that by holding such a view, actually forfeit the grace (favor) of God in their lives (Galatians 5:1-12). That they have taken the helm of their own lives, forcing God's divine leading out, and have substituted that with a spirit of religion, which is usually learned through man's religious traditions (Matthew 15:3-9) This substitution is the root cause of all the world problems caused by "Christians", and I might add, all Christian superstition. And I use quotation marks here, because most of them are not true Christians but in name only because they do not know the difference between God's imputed Faith, and the (man-made) Christian religion. That is, they do no have the Spirit of God, because of either not accepting God's gift of eternal life (with a promised resurrected body like that of Jesus' , Luke 24:13-49)) on His terms (repentence), or have forfeited His favor towards them by substituting it with their own acquired (usually condemnational) religious dogmas. Such religious ideas are learned from the traditional institutions of man's (christian) religion, but all along presenting themselves as being "God's people", or God's "spoksperson."

...........methane

[Yvonne Belisle]

Thank you that is information I did not have and I do find it interesting. Perhaps it will help both pagans and christians that come here see more and find yet more common ground.

[Eurocat]

Very well said. Brava.

[Methanespirit]

From what I can gather, the original witches were the shamans, doctors, and healers of the original Celtic and Anglo Saxon tribes that came from the Middle East to northwestern Europe about 500 BC. The term "witch" is apparently from the old Sanskrit-based "wot" or "wid". It is found in Hindi today as "vid", or more commonly known today as "vida" -meaning, life knolwledge. Many of them were accomplished herbalists, hence the tradition of mixing herbs and other condiments for human healing and other uses as well a mundane Sidereal Astrology. It is from the knowledge of this lost branch of Astrological metaphysics that the days of the week are named as well as the myths concerning their heroes, such as Thor and Woden. Unfortunately, when Chrisitianity was introduced to these early northwestern Europeans, (c. 400 AD) instead of simply presenting the gospel message and allowing each to make up their own mind whether to accept the message or not, the Church representatives forced, or for social-tribal reasons, coerced many of them to be "baptized" to prove their acceptance of becoming a "member of the Church.". That becoming a member of a collective religious organization, (which is not becoming a member of the Church, technically speaking) did not differentiate the difference between a membership into a religious organization and accepting a Spiritual path under the ascended Christ Jesus. Some of these new believers however, were genuine but a goodly portion were not. Yet, the same Church organization wished to have a group to blame any misfortunes on within these tribes, and the witches were the natural choice because of their often perceived spiritual connections. ( It is interesting that they should consider this factor of life within these tribes as being so important ; Deuteronomy 31:14-21. Although these verses apply to the house of Israel, it is taken for granted among many except those in the church that many of the N. W. Europeans are actually of the scattered house of Israel , II Kings 17:1-6) . This is bad enough, but then they began to be brutalized through undue persecutions. And from this, founded the beginnings of the ideas, that witches were thought to be representatives of "Satan". This unfortunately, has become a stygmatized perception among most church members yet today. That the "evil witches" were mostly a concoction of the collective mind- set within the Church as well as all superstitions connected with them. This warped perception is still with us today, and the Church has done little to rectify the mal-treatment of these folks. One can go to any Christian message board and bring up the subject of Wicca, or Withcraft, and the response is universal - one of horror and condemnational-rejection.

........methane

[Aviendha]

Hey, do you know a Christian website, I'd love to hear what they have to say. Do you think I could educate some people?

[Methanespirit]

Aviendha, I know of plenty of them. Some are more "flakey" than others. Perhaps you could start with the Baptists. Just enter "Baptist message boards" into a search engine, and then choose one. I have generally found that the Baptists are the least disirable of any of them for substituting religion for the true scriptural message. As far as educating them, well, I wouldn't count on it!

...........methane

[Jazzmine]

Very good message. I also usually skip over long threads, but am really glad I didn't skip over yours. It comes at a really neat time too. I was thinking about going to my first Witches Meetup next Tuesday. This is where a bunch of people from the same community gather in a public place to meet. Normally, I would never do such a thing because my husband is a very very protective man and is suspicious about most people. I'm still not sure about going, but thank you for your words.

[cruor libido]

with you permission Yvonne, i would like to put that on my website so all the people who visit it can toil around inside themselves until they understand what you mean, then bask in the prominant rays of your knowledge and vision.
BB
crour

[Yvonne Belisle]

bump for the new practioners.